2013 $2 Coronation coin (CLOSED)

[SULLA]

Did anyone notice the Chubb roll of coins that ended yesterday on eBay?
$330 for an opened roll plus $5 for postage.

Any thoughts or comments on the authenticity of rolled Coronations?

[trout]

I imagine these will do the same as the 2012 coloured RSL (No  Mintmark) coin and die off to a quiet whimper by next year :ok:

The mintage on the RSL coin was only 500,000 compared to 2,000,000 for this one and the RSL coin has faded into memory already. :angel:

[Fulvio]

Any thoughts or comments on the authenticity of rolled Coronations?

Not seen one yet. Got a 2013 roll, but it was all standards.

So it might be possible, maybe. You wouldn't know unless a coronation ended up on the end the right way 'round, and then it would likely be ruined.

But even then it wouldn't be all Coronations. A cryptic email I got from the mint hinted they may have been mixed by them, in which case neither entire bags nor rolls are likely. And yes, I have seen the full bag of them. A fluke, I say.

[SULLA]

The mintage on the RSL coin was only 500,000 compared to 2,000,000 for this one and the RSL coin has faded into memory already. :angel:

The Red Poppy really was a NCLT wasn't it! Instead of the RAM selling it the RSL did.
This latest coloured coin is a circulating edition that just isn't circulating! That's a big
difference between the two coins.

As for rolls; I have spoke with some of the Security Co's and they say rolls are more than possible because they do not pay any attention to coins.
They pack as they receive them. (One production room supervisor I spoke with was not even aware of the Coronation!)

I think Coronations are worth asking about anywhere rolls are still delivered!

Fulvio I will speak to a contact I have at the mint and see if I can confirm the cryptic email. (One word I dislike immensely is "may". Most times the user means maybe and then the end result is NO!)

[SULLA]

Unopened Armaguard roll on eBay!
2 days 2hours to go.
Slowly, slowly they are appearing...

[Fulvio]

Unopened Armaguard roll on eBay!
2 days 2hours to go.
Slowly, slowly they are appearing...

I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole, personally.

Well, maybe I would... allow for the roll having precisely ONE in it. Any extra would be a bonus then.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281155263770

I just asked the seller how he knows its a full roll. Bet he can't answer.

[triplewitch]

A common ebay trick to entice the gullible.-John

[Fulvio]

A common ebay trick to entice the gullible.-John

Indeed. Unopened rolls are a lottery at best, and an outright con at worst. I could easily offer that 2013 roll with the caveat "MAY contain Coronation coins", and the wodducks would certainly bite.

But such a scam is unconscionable.

[runway]

Waiting for someone to open up a roll to view contents

[SULLA]

Indeed. Unopened rolls are a lottery at best, and an outright con at worst. I could easily offer that 2013 roll with the caveat "MAY contain Coronation coins", and the wodducks would certainly bite.

But such a scam is unconscionable.

Unopened Chubb rolls have been sold along with a couple of Coronations in one auction. Another was two Chubb 2013 rolls and five Coronation coins.

I see nothing nothing wrong with that as long as the intent is clear and honourable. I know the bloke who sold those Chubb rolls and he is an honourable person.

What has to be considered is that with RAM no longer offering rolls once current stock is depleted, the only source of new rolls will be security co's.

I suggest that one buys any new rolls they find while they can!

Plastic coin bags are very convenient and have greatly reduced the availabilty of rolls.

As for the "wodducks" (sic) the roll may well contain Coronations. You are making an honest statement.
What is the scam? Do you know that there are only 2013 stds in the roll?

Waiting for someone to open up a roll to view contents

The friend who sold three Chubb rolls on eBay recently opened a Chubb roll while we were on the phone last night. There were no Coronations in that roll. However that does not mean that there will none in the next roll! and so on.

I have hundreds of $1 rolls. I have enough faith in them and confidence that they are years as shown with H / T or H /H.

In fact I will be heading out tomorrow morning and Monday specifically looking for new $2 security co rolls.

[Fulvio]

Do you know that there are only 2013 stds in the roll?

I do, because curiosity got the better of me and I opened it. No Coronations. Of course this does not mean there might not be.

However...

A lot of sellers hype things up as much as they can to raise prices. Just look at all the six foot tall red lettering and words like "may" and "possible" and so on. Or the people who are "not professional graders" and ask you to judge from a blurry happy snap. Again, I'm not saying every ebay seller is a con man. Far from it. But the line does blur when otherwise honest people stretch the verifiable truth just that tiny bit.

The fact is, there are a LOT more standards than coronations. We know from bags where we can see the content that they average 2 or 3 coronations per bag, with many having none at all, and only one that I've seen a photo of having all coronations. There are enough standards that it makes sense for them to be rolled for dispensing machines in fact.

So if I see a roll showing H/H, I will assume it contains only standards. If I see a H/T then it has ONE coronation in it. T/T and it has TWO. Which makes the roll worth whatever any UNC roll is worth, plus a premium of at best $20. Certainly NOT the multiples bidiots are paying on the assumption the whole roll comprises high value coins.

Oh, and I too collect rolls. And I have a couple of branches on the lookout for me. But any rolls of new coin I find will be treated as being what I described above, not some jackpot prize, and squirreled away as such.

[SULLA]

Fulvio - I agree with you; and if the facts are presented the buyer can then decide to buy or not to buy.

I think we have an inbult bias here as we have not paid a premium for these coins. If one does not have any of these coins,
one would be inclined to pay a premium.

The market is being tested with some freakish results (on eBay), which may be an indication of future trends.

If I get a new H/T or T/T (showing Coronation) 2013 $2 roll direct from a bank I will treat that as being a full roll; and always have for other coins.
No special considerations for the Coronation coin. In the past I have treated std T/T coins from the same sack as being whole rolls (with a lower premium); and will no doubt in the future continue to do so.

Anyone who purchases a security company roll (past, present or future) is in the same boat! There are no guarantees! And with the Mint no longer supplying rolls,
the risk you preceive will increase!

Appreciate your comments.

[Fulvio]

In the past I have treated std T/T coins from the same sack as being whole rolls (with a lower premium); and will no doubt in the future continue to do so.

Fair assumption, and I work the same way. Armaguard receives new coin literally by the semi-trailer load. I remember their Port Melbourne depot had 11 pallets of 2002 Outback dollars for example. That quantity takes weeks to roll or bag. Therefore, with occasional hiccups, the entire roll/bag and sack(s) are identical. Even in 2003 when there were two $1 coins at the same time, they were rolled separately and while some sacks had both rolls, each roll was only one type.

However this case is completely different. A deliberate decision was made to ration the coronations to spread them further. They were pre-mixed, either by the mint or Armaguard. If the latter, it is possible they may have been seeded directly into bags during filling, given the consistency of most bags.

There is no reason to believe rolls would be any different if the coins were mixed in bulk. If they were seeded directly on the other hand, there is also no reason to expect that after going to such pains, they would undo it all by rolling unmixed coronations. Almost certainly 2013 rolls are going to be all standard, or premixed. I do not believe coronation rolls are likely at all.

Meanwhile, that seller responded with a guarantee that all coins in the roll are coronations. I told him that the only way to offer such a guarantee is for the roll to have been tampered with. It would take some hard evidence to change my mind on this.

[SULLA]

This "deliberate decision" you refer to is that the same as the cryptic message you received?

I believe they were seeded but I have security bags of 25 Coronations; so I believe it is possible that full rolls exist also.

We shall see!

[Fulvio]

This "deliberate decision" you refer to is that the same as the cryptic message you received?

Yep. They were clear that it was done on purpose. What they didn't say, and which I have since asked, is who did the mixing. I suspect it was Armaguard, under instruction. If so, then its certainly possible some escaped the process, producing a few full bags.

Rolls are another matter. They are now a tiny part of total distribution. Retail clients, including banks, all get bags. Bulk clients such as supermarkets and chain stores have electronic safes which dispense loose coins. The only remaining roll users are banks with roll dispensing machines, and they are few and far between. It is extremely unlikely Armaguard would divert a limited resource they were under instructions to ration, just so they could produce such rolls.