Mutes and where to find them

[coxspau]

Indeed...Customer Service is so much easier if there are no customers.

From my 1c and 2c haul, I managed to pick out 1 x 2c 1966 no SD and 1 x 2c 1968 no SD.

Haven't examined claws yet.

[Fulvio]

Just had a call from the RBA, who confirmed that while there is no law requiring destruction of old currency, they have asked the banks to do so. Next step is to get this in writing. Anybody else want to fire off an email or three?

[Unicorn]

Thanks for following that up Fulvio, hence how it may appear as a law to a teller.

[Fulvio]

Here's the email I just sent to the RBA:

Following on from telephone conversations with your staff, I am seeking written confirmation of the situation regarding the withdrawal from circulation and subsequent destruction of old currency.

I am a numismatist, and I actively seek old and unusual coins and banknotes which people take to the banks and which the banks add to their "mutes" or mutilated currency destined for destruction. While the majority of bank staff are happy to allow a collector to take these items, occasionally some refuse, claiming it is illegal to do so, and they would lose their jobs if they did.

As the only Australian currency ever to have been demonetised is the Holey Dollar and the Dump, and all other decimal and predecimal currency remains legal tender, I can see no legal basis for this point of view. The verbal advice given by you seems to indicate that while there is no law in place, you have requested that the banks do this, and it is their choice whether or not to comply.

I can fully understand why the RBA would not want superseded currency to continue to circulate. However, items in numismatic collections are not circulating. They have been removed from circulation just as permanently as if they were destroyed, as they have a monetary and historical value greater than their nominal face value. Imagine a teller having a 1930 penny for example, and insisting on its destruction, despite its significance and value?

The items in question include:

Predecimal coins and banknotes
Paper decimal banknotes
Copper decimal coins
Gold decimal coins
Silver decimal coins (including round 50¢)
"light" coloured and "federation" $5 polymer banknotes
Non-Circulating Legal Tender (collector coins subsequently put into circulation)

If legislation exists to force the destruction of these items, I would like details of that legislation. If there is no legislation, I would like that confirmed in writing, so that I can take the matter up with the branch and regional managers who believe they are under a legal obligation. If it is true that staff have been sacked or threatened with dismissal over this, I would imagine they would have grounds for unfair dismissal, and current staff should not be fearful of such punishment if it has no legal basis.

I look forward to your earliest reply,

Fulvio Gerardi
PO Box 85, Hallam 3803

We'll see what happens next.

[JeffH]

I was about to post that it would be nice to get something in writing from the RBA but you seem to have pre-empted that Fulvio.
I hope you get a response (and that it fully addresses the points you raise).
Good luck; plenty of people here will await developments with interest.

Jeff

[b_j_w_79]

Top job Fulvio. A well thought out and constructive letter. I'd be very interested in the response! (as would many others I would suggest)

[runway]

What an awesome letter Fulvio excellent mate

[czark]

Good job Fulvio. Can't wait for the response.

The few CBA's that I have been too were more than happy to give me what they had. One teller is going beyond that to put them aside for me. I check in every Monday.

[coxspau]

While I recognise that walking into a bank and asking to exchange new money for old is a little odd to some bank staff, I get bowled over by the lack of helpfulness from some people.

In a service based industry, you'd think they would train their tellers better. Fortunately, there are still enough branches that I can usually find one or two decent people in other places. The blank stares you get from some tellers are amazingly astounding. I do believe most of them truly are vacant upstairs.

If I banked with them, I'd shut down all my accounts and keep my money in a safe.

[trout]

While I recognise that walking into a bank and asking to exchange new money for old is a little odd to some bank staff, I get bowled over by the lack of helpfulness from some people.

In a service based industry, you'd think they would train their tellers better. Fortunately, there are still enough branches that I can usually find one or two decent people in other places. The blank stares you get from some tellers are amazingly astounding. I do believe most of them truly are vacant upstairs.

If I banked with them, I'd shut down all my accounts and keep my money in a safe.

I think what every noodler should realise is that Banks are there primarily to service their customers with deposits, withdrawals  and the occasional request for coinage for the use for commerce.
I doubt that anywhere in their job description it states that they have to look after non customers making strange requests :diablo: :ok:

[coxspau]

trout, I think that the primary purpose of banks once was servicing customers with deposits, withdrawls and commerce services. While many banks still provide these services, I don't think that is their primary purpose. Shareholders are more driven by profits that customer service ratings.

I do recognise that noodling requests are strange. That is one of the reasons why I don't fight it when tellers advise that they can't help. Nevertheless, their responses can still be very frustrating.

[trout]

trout, I think that the primary purpose of banks once was servicing customers with deposits, withdrawls and commerce services. While many banks still provide these services, I don't think that is their primary purpose. Shareholders are more driven by profits that customer service ratings.

I do recognise that noodling requests are strange. That is one of the reasons why I don't fight it when tellers advise that they can't help. Nevertheless, their responses can still be very frustrating.

There are only a couple of banks where I live so noodling really isn't much of an option for me.
I do however get 3-400 dollars worth of $1 $2 and 50 cent coins every now and then, I have a good look through these and I don't "Dump" them back at the bank.
I normally take them into the general store when I pick up my mail and cash them in, They are more than welcome there.
When I last went in and got coins from the Bank the teller recognised me and said "Hi you are the bloke that gets coins just to pick out the good ones" I replied that this is the case.
She then said " good I have been saving these for you " and handed me a bag with $50 worth of poppy coins in it that she had put aside for the last few weeks. :yahoo:
I went straight down to the bakery and bought Black forest cake for their smoko, As a way of saying thank you :good:

I will head into the same bank in a few weeks and see if I am still remembered :angel:

[Australian coin]

haha I would remember you if you buy me yummy stuff hehe you big softie :heart:
yeah the bank lady's saved some nice coins for us a few days ago too, its good to build up a good relationship with the bank people.

[Aussie stranded in the Uk]

This link is pretty clear ...

All notes are still legal tender ....

http://banknotes.rba.gov.au/redeemingoldnotes.html

Mark

[Fulvio]

All notes are still legal tender ....

Thanks to Mark for bringing this up again, first in PM's and now this post. I've just dug through my emails to find what the RBA said:

"We would firstly like to note that the Reserve Bank is responsible for Australia's banknotes only, while responsibility for coins is vested in the Royal Australian Mint.  Hence, we can only comment on aspects of your enquiry relating to banknotes.  For coin-related information, you may wish to visit the Mint's website at www.ramint.gov.au or contact them at info@ramint.gov.au.
 
Under the Reserve Bank Act 1959, the Reserve Bank has the authority to produce, issue, reissue and cancel Australia's banknotes.  Polymer banknotes are the only banknotes currently being issued by the Reserve Bank of Australia.  While past banknote series, including the pre-decimal series and paper decimal series, retain their legal tender status, they are no longer produced or issued into circulation for use by the public; those that are in circulation are withdrawn progressively over time.
 
As previously advised, we request that commercial banks do not issue old paper and pre-decimal banknotes, and instead return them to the Reserve Bank for destruction.  That said, we are unable to dictate with whom and on what terms commercial banks conduct business as they are private entities.  It is at the discretion of each commercial bank as to whether they wish to return paper banknotes to the Reserve Bank, or retain stocks of them to meet public demand.  However, the scarcity of paper banknotes in circulation means that there is minimal public demand for them and, as a result, it is unlikely that commercial banks are in a position to issue those banknotes, for logistical reasons.

As an aside, due to the time elapsed since paper banknotes were actively circulating, it is also likely that the banks (and many members of the public) may be unfamiliar with the security features on the various issues of paper banknotes.  As such, instead of retaining them, the banknotes are sent by the commercial banks to the Reserve Bank in order to confirm that they are genuine.  When paper banknotes are forwarded to the Reserve Bank for assessment, they are destroyed at the conclusion of the assessment process, and not returned to the bank for issue into circulation."

The emphasis is mine, BTW. What this basically means is that any bank employee who tells you s/he is required by law to send mutes off for destruction is lying. Of course, it makes no difference, since they are under no obligation to hand over that which you seek. But at least you can smugly inform them of the legal situation, and take steps like taking your business elsewhere or whatever.

There also appears to be no requirement for coins to be destroyed either, but one would need to check with the RAM.