1919 & 20 dot and dash

ausjack · December 24, 2014, 06:40:58 PM

ok I admit I'm as thick as a brick so can someone please explain how the dot, dash thing works on the 1919 & 20 penny..is the single line the top scroll and double is the bottom scroll?? or how does it work please :hi:

Nightparrot · December 24, 2014, 07:29:40 PM

Always find it a little confusing myself, look forward to seeing the good oil......

nealeffendi · December 25, 2014, 12:31:24 AM

The method is easy. A dash (-) such as 1919- means 1919 No Dot and 1920- means 1920 No Dot. Sometimes the letters ND are used.
For Dot Below it is always referring to the bottom scroll and is usually abbreviated as /. Such as 1919/. and 1920/. Sometimes the letters DB are used
Double Dot is referring to a dot above the top scroll and a dot below the bottom scroll. It is usually abbreviated as .//. so that makes 1919.//. and 1920.//. Sometimes the letters DD are used.
The remaining 2 dot positions only occur in 1920 and they are the Dot Above and the Dot Above Top Scroll. The Dot Above (DA) is also often called the Dot Above Bottom Scroll (DABS) and is usually written 1920./ but may also be written as 1920/./
The rarest dot position is the Dot Above Top Scroll (DOTS) and is usually written as 1920.//

ausjack · December 25, 2014, 05:08:46 AM

I don't have any double dots in either 1919 or 20 but this is what I have in the 1920 dots
dot above top scroll

dot above bottom scroll

dot below bottom scroll

Ok better go play santa now, have a fun day team :good:

autocoupler · December 25, 2014, 11:07:53 AM

Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='64286' dateline='1419446326'I don't have any double dots in either 1919 or 20 but this is what I have in the 1920 dots
dot above top scroll

There is a possibility this one is a double dot with a filled bottom dot AJ. I've learned from others here the dot above top scroll coin often displays a weak top scroll on the right side where as the scroll on your coin appears strong. The rim also appears a little flatter or wider on the dot above top scroll coin.

A good marker for the double dot coin is two raised and angled parallel lines above and within the confines of the outer strokes of "W" in COMMONWEALTH. If these lines are in place it's most certainly a double dot, and there will most likely be a spur on the second "N" of penny.

nealeffendi · December 25, 2014, 02:37:28 PM

Somebody :angel: wrote a CAB article earlier this year where it was pointed out that most (over 80%) 1920 double dots have a spur (die clash) between NN and the Dot Over Top has never been seen with a spur.
Also if the top dot is large it is a Double Dot as the Dot Over Top Scroll variety has a petite dot.

autocoupler · December 25, 2014, 04:05:23 PM

You certainly did Neal, and most of us would be none the wiser if you hadn't. :good:

ausjack · December 25, 2014, 04:11:48 PM

Thanks team, I did notice the NN on two of the 1919 but will have to suss them again, and again, and again just to be sure :good:

ausjack · December 25, 2014, 05:44:22 PM

will have to have more of a suss yet but found a few in both the 1919 & 20 with this mark so I take it your talking about this N mark between the NN's..gee I hope I have one of the big one's

But knowing my luck!

nealeffendi · December 25, 2014, 05:58:11 PM

Hi Ausjack, that is a nice strong single spur. Spurs have been observed on 43 different die pairs for 1920 but fewer than 10 are that well defined.

ausjack · December 25, 2014, 06:22:38 PM

Cool, thanks Neal :good: Not that I have many but I'll see what else I can find on them and with a bit of luck :winkextra:

I thought I'd found a few die clashes :blush2:

ausjack · December 25, 2014, 09:33:21 PM

That coin before was a 1919 and I'll put the rest up later but this is the only 1920 I could find for now and don't know what I was thinking when I said die clash as I meant like a double strike but don't worry about me I get lost easy

Thanks heaps for your help trying to work this out team, appreciate it :thank_you:

robbiegal · December 25, 2014, 10:14:56 PM

have you got a new camera AJ?
your photos have been great

nealeffendi · December 25, 2014, 10:56:27 PM

AJ, that isn't a double strike but a double clash. On 2 separate occasions the dies have clashed together and between those clashes the dies have rotated to align in different positions and the 2 spurs show the 2 different alignments.
The dies may clash many times but if the alignment doesn't change only a single spur will be evident. Of course if the die clashes many times in the same position it might be the cause a stronger spur.

ausjack · December 26, 2014, 05:15:55 AM

Thanks Neal, so I was right the first time, gee I find a lot of this a bit confusing to say the least but very slowly working it out :good:

And thanks RG but no mate, still the same old camera but trying to keep it a bit more steady when taking pic's, mind you I still take 50 pic's to get one good one :dash1: