Grading section

[stevo1962]

My understanding would convert some of the higher Sheldon grades to Australian grades as follows

 SHELDON                          AUSTRALIAN
 AU50                                 aEF
 AU55                                 EF
 AU58                                 aUNC
 MS60-62                            UNC
 MS63-64                            Ch UNC
 MS65+                               GEM
 MS70                                 FDC

[trout]

My understanding would convert some of the higher Sheldon grades to Australian grades as follows

 SHELDON                          AUSTRALIAN
 AU50                                 aEF
 AU55                                 EF
 AU58                                 aUNC
 MS60-62                            UNC
 MS63-64                            Ch UNC
 MS65+                               GEM
 MS70                                 FDC

Yep ,Thats the way I see them as cross grades.:good:
The AU50 and AU55 are prety missleading to Aussie collectors unless they have at least a basic understanding of the Sheldon grades.

[Graham]

So.....
MS60 is uncirculated
MS61 is less uncirculated
MS62 is even less uncirculated
MS 63 is really really good uncirculated
MS 64 is really really really good uncirculated.
MS 65+ is really (65) really (66) really (67) really (68) really (69) sh*t hot uncirculated.

Is there an established description of what makes the difference in incirculated state in (say) a $1 coin?

I have a GEM 1972 5 cent.  What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+?

[trout]

I have a GEM 1972 5 cent. What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+?

Whack a pic up and let us all have a squizz.
ALL my 72 5 cents are crap, It will be nice to drool over a nice one:yahoo:

[stevo1962]

CORRECTION
So.....
MS60 is uncirculated
MS61 is more uncirculated   -
MS62 is even more uncirculated
MS 63 is really really good uncirculated (or choice uncirculated)
MS 64 is really really really good uncirculated.(choice uncirculated +)
MS 65+ is really (65) really (66) really (67) really (68) really (69) sh*t hot uncirculated.

Is there an established description of what makes the difference in incirculated state in (say) a $1 coin?

I have a GEM 1972 5 cent. What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+? -  correct

[Splock]

Is there an established description of what makes the difference in incirculated state in (say) a $1 coin?

I have a GEM 1972 5 cent. What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+? -  correct

If you're looking to sell in Australia then I would look to grade to the standard laid out by ANDA. To produce a definitive list of what makes a 5 cent or $1 a certain grade would be most difficult. It really comes down to experience, of knowing what the high points of each design are to look for where wear occurs etc.

From the ANDA guide to grading a GEM Uncirculated is defined as:
A superior coin with an almost perfect Strike. May show just a few minute Detracting Marks, barely visible to the naked eye. Virtually Full Lustre or Mint Bloom is present. An attractive toning (if present) may enhance Eye Appeal, on silver coins,but is less desirable on bronze coins. Overall, a close to perfect coin.

This applies as much to the stuff in your pocket as to pre-decimals. If there's a single scratch in the field, dent on the rim or it's a weak strike or worn die then it's not GEM.

[Fr45h3R]

I have a GEM 1972 5 cent.  What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+?

Hi Graham
firstly, have a look at the PCGS population report for the 1972 5c piece.
http://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail.aspx?c=5073

As you can see there is almost 160 x 1972 5c pieces graded, and the range is centred on MS65/MS66. Most of these would be coins in / from full rolls sent in under bulk submission. There is an MS68 currently for sale on quicksales, but it is the top of the population so the price realised could be many hundreds of dollars. MS66's are around $50/$60.

Back to your question, what you would look for, to grade a coin MS65 or higher.
Firstly, I'd be looking at the coin under a nice bright light.
Look for full cartwheel lustre on the coin.
Next, look at the smoothness / reflectivity of the surface. A few non detracting small bag marks / flecks are fine across the legends / rims, but through the devices they would bring the grade of the coin down.
Smooth mirrored surfaces would definitely improve the grade, where as PVC impacted surface would bring the grade down (the coin may even get slabbed with a 'Details' grade)
Normally 5c pieces have minimal marks anyway, same as threepences which is why they grade rather well as PCGS.  
Lastly, does the coin look good ?
If the coins exhibits the details above, it is well along the way to be an MS65.

I think one thing we probably need to be aware of when applying the 'Sheldon' grade, is that whilst you can generally put a guideline out to match the ANDA and Sheldon system next to each other, they use different aspects when the grade is determined and there will be exceptions.

[Graham]

Whenever I opened new roll of coins, if it had the slightest bagmark I chucked it. It was easy to do because I had so many rolls.  That might suggest I have a huge quantity of MS65+ 5s, 10s, 20s and $1s in 2x2s.

I might retrieve them one day and have a look.

P.S.  I found it difficult to find decent 5 cent pieces from rolls.  

P.P.S.  Out of a 1000 APEC $1s I found only 40 without any bagmarks.

[Fr45h3R]

Whenever I opened new roll of coins, if it had the slightest bagmark I chucked it. It was easy to do because I had so many rolls.  That might suggest I have a huge quantity of MS65+ 5s, 10s, 20s and $1s in 2x2s.

I might retrieve them one day and have a look.

P.S.  I found it difficult to find decent 5 cent pieces from rolls.  

P.P.S.  Out of a 1000 APEC $1s I found only 40 without any bagmarks.

If it helps at all, unless cherry picked, coins from modern Mint Sets these days are MS65 / MS66.
To get MS66 or better from a modern security roll is difficult due to the handling before they are rolled. Coins rolled at the mint were a lot better.

[Graham]

Whenever I opened new roll of coins, if it had the slightest bagmark I chucked it. It was easy to do because I had so many rolls.  That might suggest I have a huge quantity of MS65+ 5s, 10s, 20s and $1s in 2x2s.

I might retrieve them one day and have a look.

P.S.  I found it difficult to find decent 5 cent pieces from rolls.  

P.P.S.  Out of a 1000 APEC $1s I found only 40 without any bagmarks.

If it helps at all, unless cherry picked, coins from modern Mint Sets these days are MS65 / MS66.
To get MS66 or better from a modern security roll is difficult due to the handling before they are rolled. Coins rolled at the mint were a lot better.

Try opening the latest RAM rolls sold by the RAM. They are no better than the security rolls provided by Armaguard.  In fact, I believe them and most of the other rubbish sold by the RAM to be low grade cr*p. Up until two years ago, I haunted the NAB looking for 'new' rolls.  I would keep the head/tails and open all the others.  While difficult to find CHU UNC, they were there.  You simply had to open a lot of rolls.

I was always of the opinion that CHU and GEM had NO bag marks whatsover.  Let me assure you that I was extremely tough on selecting coins to keep.

My major problem with the MS system is that there seems to be a LOT of latitude in grading. Opinions seem to vary greatly, with the final say being with an international grader.

For the RAM: - BRING BACK THE SPECIMEN WEDDING SETS.  Then i'll know I have something decent.

[robbiegal]

The lament of the specimen collectors is heard far and wide

it has been the RAM's biggest ommission for specimen collectors

shame on the RAM for this

[purplepennyhunter]

I too would like the specimen's back. Proofs are a different realm.