1922 Penny

[echidna]

Does anyone know where these were struck ?

The Wide Date I believe were struck in Perth
using dies supplied direct from London.

Neal would probably be able to comment further
unless it's allready hiding in the '22 thread :- :angel:

I suspected Perth.
As the obverse strike is very similar to the 1920 dot above London.
Thanks for the photo comment Steve.
My little Olympus 720 does a good job.

[nealeffendi]

Just back from work and saw this post. I have a strong suspicion that the wide dates are Perth. Melbourne was not dating hubs until 1924 so these dies were not made in Melbourne. The only other likely mint is London.
Now as Melbourne was already striking dies it had no need for London to send working dies (only the hubs).
The only mint that needed to be sent working dies was Perth, the records show that London (and Melbourne) sent dies (almost certainly dated 1922, any from Sydney would be dated 1920).
- the wide dates have the quality of die not typical of Melb.
- London was known to have master tools and to have made various date varieties (1913, 14, 15) so the variety range is in character..
- the wide dates look odd, perhaps the dies were made with a partially dated hub (192) and the last 2 added to the working die. A partially dated hub would be necessary to prepare the 1922 master;the fully dated master would have made made the hub sent to Melb. Why the dated master wasn't used to prepare a new hub is a question mark. Maybe they figured it was easier (cheaper and faster) to skip making a new dated hub and use a existing partially dated hub, a quick hit with a 2 punch and the dies are dated.
Only problem is that more than the last 2 is different (the 9 being the obvious difference), so was there the use of a punch lacking several (all?) digits?
Any errors?, any disagreements with the surmising?

[autocoupler]

I've done a little work on the 22 penny but have no clue about the die production process, so happy to leave that to Neal and you guys. The coin echidna has posted (nice) does belong to the Wide date group as opposed to the Extra wide date group. As Neal says there's more going on than just the last 2, or the 9 for that matter. Have so far confirmed three examples, (1) Left side of the foot on first 2 aligns with the left edge of a dentil, (2) The first 2 aligns between dentils, (3) Same as #2, also has a spike like protrusion from the tip of the 9's tail. Have not yet seen a #1 with a spike 9, and just looking at echidna's pic it does appear to show the first 2 aligning at the left edge of a dentil. But, is that a spike on the tail of the 9?

[echidna]

[/quote]

. But, is that a spike on the tail of the 9?
[/quote]
No spike.
There is a feint die crack starting at the base of the 9.
And also die polishing around the 9.

[Fordprefect]

='autocoupler' pid='55663' dateline='1406426669']

='nealeffendi' pid=

But, is that a spike on the tail of the 9?

:idea:

[nealeffendi]

Echidna, why do you think it is the start of a die crack? Most (not all) die cracks don't get that fat and be short as well. Plus why didn't the 9s not develop the crack further as the die should be deteriorating.
The other problem is at least 2 dies have this "crack" and yes it could be a stress point prone to failure, but why only the wide dates and why not any other year with 19 (all Geo V pennies).
Then the other point is why has nobody confirmed the same dies pre tail 9? Did the crack develop very early (like the cracked Adelaide pound)?
Any chance it is a tool mark for marking the undated die and the technician was off target (accounting for why the tool mark wasn't obliterated and for the poor positioning of the 9).

[echidna]

Echidna, why do you think it is the start of a die crack? Most (not all) die cracks don't get that fat and be short as well. Plus why didn't the 9s not develop the crack further as the die should be deteriorating.
The other problem is at least 2 dies have this "crack" and yes it could be a stress point prone to failure, but why only the wide dates and why not any other year with 19 (all Geo V pennies).
Then the other point is why has nobody confirmed the same dies pre tail 9? Did the crack develop very early (like the cracked Adelaide pound)?
Any chance it is a tool mark for marking the undated die and the technician was off target (accounting for why the tool mark wasn't obliterated and for the poor positioning of the 9).

Bad choice of word on my part - its not the start of the crack.
There is a feint die crack from the bottom of the 9 to the base of the 1 - that's all.

[nealeffendi]

That last image is what one would expect of a die crack (very fine). It isn't a fat tailed 9 as the 9 finishes normally. The image that Ford posted has a fat tail.

[autocoupler]

='autocoupler' pid='55663' dateline='1406426669']

='nealeffendi' pid=

But, is that a spike on the tail of the 9?

:idea:

That looks close Rob. Trying to line your coin up with the examples below, it certainly doesn't appear to overlap dentil 10 as much as the coin in fig.15. It also appears to be a fraction further to the left than the coin in fig.14, and it's difficult to decide if it's the same as the coin in fig.16 or not. It could very well be the missing link.  :idea: Would you mind re checking the alignment making sure it's taken from the centre of the coin. Very interesting.
   

[stevo1962]

Looks like this one will cost me $25 so might be worth a chance

I haven't purchased this coin yet but I'm hoping it
will go at least MS62 otherwise it's not worth buying

[stevo1962]

PCGS cert  31353944

17027  1922  1D  Australia  MS63BN


   Not a bad result

[robbiegal]

You are on fire Steve great results for you!

[stevo1962]

You are on fire Steve great results for you!

Thanks RG yeah I'm pretty happy with that