hi all,
am a bit of a stalker here and elsewhere to learn about coins being my new hobby. this site is more informative and aussie.
but whilst channel surfing came across a yank show called 'dirty jobs'. mike , the host, had to clean coins for a hotel in san francisco , a job they have been doing for 80 years.
in a metal tumbler were BB pellets, borax , water and coins for 2 hours. then rinsed, shaken dry ,then under a heat lamp. presto super clean shiny coins !!
feel sorry for U.S coin collectors and hopefully this does not happen here
Very bad. If you have the urge seek a professionals advice first. The general rule is remove grease and dirt but nothing else.
:welcome:
haha I remember Mike Rowe [Dirty Jobs] I like that show
people in Oz don't clean circulation coinage as far as I know. so we should be ok, but it sounds pretty weird :P
I saw that on TV recently (only the end) but I didn't realise it was for a hotel. The BBs really crosses the line.
Ive seen that as well. Its interesting that they do that. I wouldnt have thought the benefits of passing out clean coins would outweigh the cost of employing someone to clean them.
An interesting custom but a good way to devalue collectable coins
Cleaning coins is usually a no-no. However, I have seen that sometimes when a coin is professionally cleaned it will sell for more than if it was not cleaned.
I think eventually coins that are not cleaned will get to be rarer and rarer. Although, professionally cleaned coins can be very difficult to tell from natural high quality coins.
Wavy20
I have just done what one is not supposed to do and that is clean a few coins. The four coins were all metal detected by me over the years and the year of the coins is 1926. I have put up the before and after scans below for comment.
I used a liquid called TARN OFF, available from Bunnings. I put the coins in the liquid, leave for a few moments, remove and lightly rub/clean with a cotton bud. Then placed in water for soaking and then dried on a cloth and placed into a warm oven for final drying.
This set will be placed onto Ebay for a Birthday Coin set shortly.
Now question is do I do it for my used pre decimal collection or not?
The results were amazing. See for yourselves:
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='17667' dateline='1370841149'I used a liquid called TARN OFF
Eeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkk!!!
They're
RUINED!!! :(
Seriously, see how flat they are after cleaning? Not a good look.
That said, I'm cleaning what was a 1999 UNC $1 which I found covered in crud, possibly from PVC. So far its resisted Acetone, Soap and now RP7. Next it will get another hot soapy bath, then more acetone, then if all else fails I might consider a little manual assistance, but I'd never use Tarn Off, cos it would
completely ruin it.
Quote from: 'duggee27' pid='8070' dateline='1360482904'but whilst channel surfing came across a yank show called 'dirty jobs'. mike , the host, had to clean coins for a hotel in san francisco , a job they have been doing for 80 years.
I remembered seeing this show, and just had to dig it out and watch it again just now.
Dirty.Jobs.S09E04.Water.Softener.Technician.avi
From January 2012
Steel BB's
(which he picks up with a magnet when he drops a heap) and Borax, tumbling for two hours. Dem dar quarters shore is
SHINY, Boss! And if that's not enough damage, I hate to think what the ancient rolling machine did to them as well. *SHUDDER*
On the other hand, he digs out a big lump of goop with his finger, and points out that they remove two gallons a week of solid gunk. At least it won't be infecting any of their customers with all sorts of horribleness, eh? ;)
But its still a terrible thing for a collector to watch...
I guess that is the origins of the term 'money laundering' ha ha
They do a similar thing to coin planchets at the Mints!
from the RAM website
During the preparation of the blanks the action of the rolling and rimming operations creates a change in the condition of the metal. This effect is called Work Hardening. The blanks need to be softened slightly before they can be struck with the die. This softening process is carried out in a furnace by heating the blanks to around 850 degrees Celsius and then cooling them again. After annealing, the blanks are then transferred to a burnishing unit.
Burnishing
Burnishing is used to make the surface of the blanks brighter, remove any discolouration and in some cases apply a minute amount of lubricant to assist in coining. This is carried out in a Burnishing Machine that tumbles the blanks amongst a mixture of small steel balls and ceramic media combined with special chemicals, which etch and polish the surface. After burnishing, the blanks pass through a hot air drier. The annealed, burnished and dried blanks are stored ready for coining.
I am sure Tarn Off is the same as Tarn-X. Perhaps Jeffrey has his own agenda but his site is worth a look. Destructive & Dangerous Tarn-X (http://www.hermansilver.com/tarn-x.htm)
Jeff (Devil's advocate)
Thanks for that Jeff. Message received and understood.
I answered these questions in a PM just now, then thought they might interest a wider audience. I didn't go into huge detail, but would recommend people read the Wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone
Particularly the Safety section, as regards Flammability, Toxicology and Environmental effects.
Also, when cleaning coins, do not rub, even with cotton wool. Dip a cotton bud in Acetone
(I use wooden rather than plastic, and re-roll them when they get dirty) and
ROLL it across the coin. Or dab with cotton balls, but never ever rub.
QuoteThis acetone liquid. In discussions on the forum it is supposed to be good for cleaning coins. What's your idea on this?
Its an organic solvent, which is produced in your body actually. It will dissolve all manner of organic gunk, and is safe for metals and
SOME plastics
(not polystyrene. It dissolves that like water dissolves sugar).
QuoteFurther, is the acetone dangerous to handle, what is the cost and any special containers needed to use it?
Depends on who you ask. A lot of countries listed it as hazardous, and most have since taken it off the list. It was the primary component of nail polish remover, and is used to strip paint. It does dissolve fats, so will strip the oils from your skin
(which may be good or bad). Its not particularly dangerous to breathe in, but may give some people headaches or similar. Like with any household cleaner, use common sense. Don't bathe in it, use rubber gloves if you're going to use large quantities, and good ventilation is best.
A chemist will charge you $10-12 for a 100ml bottle, which is outrageous. Bunnings will charge you a tenth of that, which is still ten times the bulk price. They sell 1L HDPE bottles and 4L tin cans. I bought the big one for $38, and will refill the 100ml bottles from it.
It will not affect Polyethylene. So the LDPE bank bags
(I strip the printing off them with it) and HDPE milk bottles are safe from it. I put coins in the bags, add acetone and seal them in a wide-mouth glass jar in case of leakage. I was going to transfer from the tin to a milk bottle, but might look for a smaller HDPE container instead, or go back to Bunnings and buy a 1L bottle instead, just because the tin is awkward to handle.
Also note this stuff is
extremely volatile. And flammable. So don't leave the lid off or you will have an empty container. And don't use it near flames or there might be an earth-shattering KA-BOOM! ;)
Like any chemical, respect is paramount.
I thought that givin it a good hard rub was standard ebay practice so was thinkin about adopting the idea myself :mocking:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='20687' dateline='1373222320'I thought that givin it a good hard rub was standard ebay practice so was thinkin about adopting the idea myself :mocking:
Nah, they use the buffer and cutting compound. :dodgy:
I have an example of a half-cleaned 2 cent piece.
Can anyone tell me how this was done?
No polishing/rubbing marks.
The image makes the coin look rather bland but it still retains a lot of "reflectivity"/lustre.
I'd say CLR clear as it makes them go a funny colour but then you get a similar effect with lemon juice as well ;)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='30807' dateline='1381670942'I'd say CLR clear as it makes them go a funny colour but then you get a similar effect with lemon juice as well ;)
Yep. A dip in some type of cleaner. What exactly is a moot point... the coin's ruined no matter what it was.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='30807' dateline='1381670942'I'd say CLR clear as it makes them go a funny colour but then you get a similar effect with lemon juice as well ;)
CLR = Calcium Lime & Rust Remover ??
Quote from: 'SULLA' pid='30826' dateline='1381700380'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='30807' dateline='1381670942'I'd say CLR clear as it makes them go a funny colour but then you get a similar effect with lemon juice as well ;)
CLR = Calcium Lime & Rust Remover ??
You can get pretty much the same results as CLR using a mixture of salt and vinegar , which works great on battery terminals and the like :ok:
Drop a coin in the mixture and you will instantly ruin that coin , These type of mixtures are great for cleaning hardware and household items but are a death sentence to coins :dodgy:
:i_agree:
Yep that's the one sulla :good:
Quote from: 'SULLA' pid='30826' dateline='1381700380'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='30807' dateline='1381670942'I'd say CLR clear as it makes them go a funny colour but then you get a similar effect with lemon juice as well ;)
CLR = Calcium Lime & Rust Remover ??
Quote from: 'trout' pid='30829' dateline='1381702440'These type of mixtures are great for cleaning hardware and household items but are a death sentence to coins
:agreed: Yet still people do this... :dodgy:
correct me if im wrong but doesn't cleaning your coins decrease the value?
Quote from: 'Cooper S' pid='30912' dateline='1381739935'correct me if im wrong but doesn't cleaning your coins decrease the value?
Often to zero, yes.
so why do people do it? if anything salt and vinegar to soak usually brings the dirt out then get an extra soft toothbrush to clean any excess off, after that wipe over it with a micro fibre cloth or glove. always does the trick!
decrease the value and will also stuff the coin up ,.
don't do it . no no no no ,, kel ,,
Quote from: 'Cooper S' pid='30917' dateline='1381740139'so why do people do it? if anything salt and vinegar to soak usually brings the dirt out then get an extra soft toothbrush to clean any excess off, after that wipe over it with a micro fibre cloth or glove. always does the trick!
Nonononononooooooooo...
Anything acidic will eat away the metal. Anything abrasive will scratch the metal. That includes dilute vinegar and microfibre cloths.
The very best advice regarding cleaning is
DON'T. There are things that you can do, which have been documented here and elsewhere, but you really have to know what you're doing, how to do it, and what the result is likely to be. At best, you can only hope to halt deterioration, not improve or reverse damage.
Quote from: 'Cooper S' pid='30917' dateline='1381740139'so why do people do it? if anything salt and vinegar to soak usually brings the dirt out then get an extra soft toothbrush to clean any excess off, after that wipe over it with a micro fibre cloth or glove. always does the trick!
Thanks mini.
It was cleaned with a saturated salt / white vinegar solution.
Just hoping to make more collectors aware of this.
I was looking at my coin collection today and realized that my pre decimal silver coins looked dirty. Si I decided to give them 30 minutes in an ultra sonic cleaner. The results are below:
Before cleaning:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/2016-04-05_12-22-41_0091.jpg)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/2016-04-05_12-24-21_0092.jpg)
After cleaning:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/2016-04-05_13-25-13_0092.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/2016-04-05_13-26-38_0093.jpg)
I know people will say I was wrong in doing it but they were circulated coins anyway. Further, I do believe that there has been quite a bit of improvement regardless.
I met a guy through a friend last year who has been collecting coins for a number of years, & every one of his coins have been cleaned,
by either soaking them in coke over night or some other mysteries fluid.
We got into a bit of discussion as to why he did that and his theory was,
apart from the fact that they were his coins & he liked them to look shiny, but also he had just bought a new car & said he had spent over $30,000 on that & what if he never cleaned that, would it be worth more money when time came to trade it in, or should he wash & polish his $30,000 investment?
I know what ya saying interest but you really can't compare chalk and cheese and GS I would have left them alone as a little grime never hurt anyone but might actually devalue them.
The story about the car is interesting but :i_agree: with AJ, its not comparable with cleaning coins. What about cleaning antique silverware? That stuff can be very expensive but I don't think collectors like it too grubby.
QuoteI was looking at my coin collection today and realized that my pre decimal silver coins looked dirty. Si I decided to give them 30 minutes in an ultra sonic cleaner.
I don't think you have done any harm here Bruce, But I would advise not to do this to any high grade or high value coins Mate :ok:
Many thanks for your comments but the 6d, 1sh and florins really do look ugly.
As they are circulated coins, I don't think an ultra sonic cleaning will harm them.
QuoteAs they are circulated coins, I don't think an ultra sonic cleaning will harm them.
Depends on how you place them in the cleaner -don't want them rubbing together or on any metal. I use some thin polycarbonate sheets as a separators (with lots of holes drilled in them to allow free circulation of fluid.
And, what fluid are you using? I usually use water with a drop of detergent as a wetting agent. Use detergent with least colour you can find -the dies used in some brightly coloured detergents can stain the coins. For aluminum, bronze coins I use a splash of acetone in the water and a squirt of windex, or similar -the alloy in those coins will badly discolour with detergent.
Only noodled coins ever get this treatment; never very high grade or valuable coins as trout indicated. It is amazing how much grim can be removed from even quite clean looking coins.
Water, a splash of dishwashing detergent and only a small part of the rims are touching.
I suspend them in the liquid using a nylon/plastic flour strainer.
Works OK for me.
Finally rid myself of those rotten soft plastic album pages a couple of years ago, but didn't immediately transfer all the coins into saflips. After procrastinating for many months all coins are in new holders; here's one that has just been removed from the 2X2 and rehoused in a saflip after having had a dip in acetone for a few hours. I know you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear, the coin being maybe a nice VF, but it's amazing how the PVC contamination was able to penetrate the mylar of the 2X2 and make for a crappy appearance as evidenced by the before and after pics. Have had to apply this process to all my coins but the hassle was worth it, unfortunately it didn't turn them into UNC :biggrin:
Thanks to the team at ACF I was able to embrace the knowledge and experiences of other members, and is just one of the many positives this forum brings to us all :good:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1925_Penny_rev_.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1925_Penny_obv_.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1925_Penny_rev__in_saflip.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1925_penny_obv__in_saflip.JPG)
Those crappy vinyl albums were responsible for ruining many of my pre decimal coins , I have since gone with the PP albums and pages and lately slabs :good:
I have always been "Leery" about using acetone on my copper coins as there is always a risk of them turning Purple.
It worked wonders on that 1925 coin though :yahoo:
Nice one auto, slab it up :)
Lovely coin, did you take any images without any coverings! :angel:
Quote from: 'Robster' pid='86983' dateline='1460328948'Lovely coin, did you take any images without any coverings! :angel:
No Robster, both pics were taken with the covers on before and after their dip. Didn't think to take a pic with their cozzies off :)
I usually make them soak in white vinegar for 3-5 minutes + gentle soda bath, with fingers. This way there's no scratching and the result is stunning, for all coin types, especially silverish.
Naturally not doing that for all coins, only those that are hopeless otherwise... Discovered a couple of real gems this way, while before the clean-up they were only fit for trash bin.
I find it a bit worrying that both NGC and PCGS has a restoration/cleaning service and yet they "boddybag" any coin cleaned by someone else.
I imagine that they are both quite expert at cleaning coins but it doesn't alter the fact that the coin has been cleaned after using this service and the coin ends up in a righteous slab :angel:
Quote from: 'SeaCat' pid='88311' dateline='1462492730'I usually make them soak in white vinegar for 3-5 minutes + gentle soda bath, with fingers. This way there's no scratching and the result is stunning, for all coin types, especially silverish.
Naturally not doing that for all coins, only those that are hopeless otherwise... Discovered a couple of real gems this way, while before the clean-up they were only fit for trash bin.
do you soak pennies in vinegar?
and welcome to the forum :)
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='88341' dateline='1462534437'do you soak pennies in vinegar?
and welcome to the forum :)
Yep, :welcome: to the forum. Olive oil and vinegar, makes a nice salad dressing for your verdigris.
Thanks for the welcome :)
Yes I tried pennies. You've got to be very careful with them to avoid discoloration. I liked the result in some cases, though at times there is inner dirt or defects in the coin that you don't see before the darkness is gone :))
One coin I was especially excited about, was a UK one - with a ship on it - it acquired a beautiful colour, I don't know how to explain, slightly purple, possibly it had a fuel bath at some stage.
One firm rule with vinegar, should you want to try that, is always separate the coins by their metal type prior to soaking. Well, that is, if keeping the natural colour is desired. :)
thank-you
QuoteOne firm rule with vinegar, should you want to try that, is always separate the coins by their metal type prior to soaking. Well, that is, if keeping the natural colour is desired.
My one firm rule with vinegar or any other acid/alkaline is NEVER use it on a coin if you expect it to retain any numismatic value at all.
Hot soapy water for circulated coins and a dip in acetone for better coins is as far as I would recommend for cleaning.
Harsh chemicals and abrasives ruin the surface of a coin forever and should never be used.:dash1::cray: