1. Coin Collecting is about Enjoyment of Collecting Coins
2. Coin Collecting is about Making Money on Coins Purchased
It is 1 but there are so many speculators that think it is 2 that screw it for those of us doing 1.
It's going down the same path as Australia Post and you can see where that has lead.
That is a tough question to have a definitive answer to.
On one hand there are usually some coins that one buys, perhaps overpriced too, because of the enjoyment of starting/finishing a collection.
And on the other hand there are some coins that can be bought because ya just know that they will go up in value.
It's an added bonus when they both line up, but this isn't always the case.
I think, ultimately, more people would be collecting for more enjoyment rather than to make more money. Enjoyment will keep a collector in the game a long longer than someone doing it for money.
For dealers though, it's about the money. If they don't make a profit then they will get out of the game.
That is my thoughts on the matter, looking forward to what others have to say.
1 for me, but when it's time to sell my collection, then I hope it's 2.
Number 2 is win some,lose some but it all evens out at the end of the line. Enjoy the journey.
Only 1 for me.
Option 2 is not "collecting". It's either "investing", or "coin dealing".
It's entirely possible for someone to be both a collector and an investor, or a collector and a dealer. But it does add a complication. For a "collector", it's all about the coins, not the money.
Greetings,
I thought I would paste the following message which I sent to Jen, one of our regular members of this forum.
It is especially relevant to the current topic.
"Hi Jen,
Thanks for the heads up. I have taken the decision to stop collecting full stop!
I am totally disillusioned with the attitude of most collector(sic) who only seem to be in it to try and make money. The last few years have been a disaster for pure collectors with hours wasted on phone calls, ballots, queuing for hours at coin shows etc. for what apparently is people's sole intention of making money. It has been especially prevalent since covid when lockdowns forced many to work from home during daylight hours.
So I have drawn a line ending with the last of the Queen's obverse coins - which means that I pretty much can say I have been able to collect every Australian 50 cent coin issued (both RAM and Perth) and every PNC with a 50 cent coin starting from the 1966 Surfer's Paradise stamped 99 Company PNC through to the last 50 cent PNC's at the beginning of 2024 (Lunar Year issues).
I may be missing a few private issue PNC's with 50 cents, so I can always be on the lookout for such examples to add to the collection, but for the moment the line has been drawn.
Cheers Peter (notcb)."
There's plenty of large accumulations of Ram/Perth decimals at auctions where people payed good money for that sell for peanuts..
Quote from: 'notcb' pid='129538' dateline='1724973026'So I have drawn a line ending with the last of the Queen's obverse coins
I have been toying with that idea too. The market is getting crazy.
Coin market has always been a roller coaster,at the moment,and the last few years, the Mints have been flooding the market with trinkets which takes funds away from older,pre-dec Coin market.
As regards the pre-dec market its a good time to buy and consolidate whilst prices are low,it will swing back down the track.
Just my 2c in my 60th year of collecting,others my have a different view/opinion.
Quote from: 'Basilstate' pid='129544' dateline='1725061648'Coin market has always been a roller coaster,at the moment,and the last few years, the Mints have ben flooding the market with trinkets which takes funds away from older,pre-dec Coin market.
As regards the pre-dec market its a good time to buy and consolidate whilst prices are low,it will swing back down the track.
Just my 2c in my 60th year of collecting,others my have a different view/opinion.
I concur. I may also be in my 60th year of collecting as I was 6 when I started collecting from change (and the occasional purchase of a low grade coin from one of the Geelong dealers) and I'm 66 now.
I still love my pennies: have two to go.... https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/oceania/australia/australian-pennies-complete-set-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1911-1964/album/118292
Vey nice set of Australian pennies. I've been doing a GV1 set in PCGS RB. Still hunting the elusive 41y,42y and the 45y in 63-4 RB. "PHEW"...Have a 45y 64bn that should be RBI's and a 41m 64rb that's a kg but who am I to argue with PCGS..
Yes,great set and worth a few bob.
Loved the "old man emu" set of pennies. :blush: :good:
Quote from: 'pra666' pid='129545' dateline='1725194753'I concur. I may also be in my 60th year of collecting as I was 6 when I started collecting from change (and the occasional purchase of a low grade coin from one of the Geelong dealers) and I'm 66 now.
Brings back 1960 memories for me as well,as a Schoolkid i used to frequent the Sydney Dealers once or twice a week trying to swap or buy low grade Oz. coins.
A couple of Dealers tried to encourage my passion,one called me 'Basilboy' which i didn't know what he meant until years later,in reference to my crappy low value coins i was trying to swap.LOL.
Their attitude changed one afternoon when i turned up with a 1919 DD i had found on my paper run,one dealer,forget whether it was the Strand Arcade or Wynyard Arcade ones,had never seen one in hand although they all knew it existed.
He took a photo with one of those 1960 camera's that went up and down on poles/rails.Offered me 2 1925 pennies for it but i was under strict instructions from my Mother not to sell it,also he had shoeboxes full of 1925 pennies so no big offer.
Anyway back to the OT,Ebay have some bargains at the moment in Oz. pre-Dec if anyone has any funds left over from 'Bluey' ...sigh.
1925 EF slabbed struggling to go over A$150,this was a $500-$1000 coin a few years back,1946 in good grade went for $40 last week.Strange market.
So I have to ask. What's your 1919 DD penny worth these days? Was your mother right to make you keep it?
I wasn't able to figure out what Basilboy means either.
I only know Basil Brush.
Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='129553' dateline='1725452630'So I have to ask. What's your 1919 DD penny worth these days? Was your mother right to make you keep it?
I wasn't able to figure out what Basilboy means either.
Probably around A$50 for average eg,$100 for a reasonable one,always listen to your Mother,i still have the original Coin.
1919 DD has gone down in value since Ebay started,for a while in the 1960's it was on parity with the 1925 but as more eg were found in the leadup to Decimal currency its value started to slide.
Early days of Oz. Ebay they were around the $80-$100 but it takes a nearly fine eg to make that now.
Basilboy came from the early Sheldon grading system,Basal State for a poor coin and most of my coins were barely gradeable back then hence his nickname for me.
Several of the Sydney Dealers used the Sheldon system back in the 1960's.
It has stuck with me over the years,my first USA Ebay name in the late 1990's was 'Basil' and then i used it on the Forums that started in Oz in the early 2000.
I know i probably need help but back to the OT,collecting for fun or profit,i do both these days i'm retired.
https://www.coinworld.com/numismatic/collector-basics/start-your-collection/what-does-basal-state-mean-in-coin-collecting.html#:~:text=Basal%20State%20is%20used%20as,the%20date%20is%20worn%20off.
Some nice pennies to add to your set, gulp :shock:
At Auction: Australia 1931 Penny - Indian Obverse w Dropped Date, PCGS AU58 (invaluable.com) (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/australia-1931-penny-indian-obverse-w-dropped-dat-7-c-21b47d986d?objectID=191277843&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=f0866200df7230aaf8fcc7ec963736d1)
At Auction: Australia 1931 Penny - Indian Obverse w Aligned Date, PCGS MS63 BN (invaluable.com) (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/australia-1931-penny-indian-obverse-w-aligned-dat-6-c-5db4041bf1?objectID=191277842&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=f0866200df7230aaf8fcc7ec963736d1)
At Auction: Australia 1920 /./ (S) - English Obverse, PCGS AU58 BN (invaluable.com) (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/australia-1920-s-english-obverse-pcgs-au58-bn-5-c-0354c049f8?objectID=191277841&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=f0866200df7230aaf8fcc7ec963736d1)
At Auction: Australia 1930 Penny - English Obverse, PCGS XF45 (invaluable.com) (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/australia-1930-penny-english-obverse-pcgs-xf45-10-c-1bd466e866?objectID=191277846&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=f0866200df7230aaf8fcc7ec963736d1)
At Auction: Australia 1925 Penny, PCGS MS65 BN (invaluable.com) (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/australia-1925-penny-pcgs-ms65-bn-8-c-ffb4e5d979?objectID=191277844&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=f0866200df7230aaf8fcc7ec963736d1)
At Auction: Australia 1928 Penny, PCGS MS65 RB (invaluable.com) (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/australia-1928-penny-pcgs-ms65-rb-9-c-4e14978b11?objectID=191277845&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=f0866200df7230aaf8fcc7ec963736d1)
At Auction: Australia 1948 Y. (P) Penny, PCGS MS65 BN (invaluable.com) (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/australia-1948-y-p-penny-pcgs-ms65-bn-11-c-76b47b0bab?objectID=191277847&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=f0866200df7230aaf8fcc7ec963736d1)
At Auction: Australia 1918 I Penny, PCGS MS65 RB (invaluable.com) (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/australia-1918-i-penny-pcgs-ms65-rb-4-c-c2e4177aac?objectID=191277840&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=f0866200df7230aaf8fcc7ec963736d1)
Quote from: 'Basilstate' pid='129555' dateline='1725490361'Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='129553' dateline='1725452630'I wasn't able to figure out what Basilboy means either.
Basilboy came from the early Sheldon grading system,Basal State for a poor coin and most of my coins were barely gradeable back then hence his nickname for me.
Several of the Sydney Dealers used the Sheldon system back in the 1960's.
It has stuck with me over the years,my first USA Ebay name in the late 1990's was 'Basil' and then i used it on the Forums that started in Oz in the early 2000.
Thanks for the enlightenment. For some reason I thought the current grading system 1 - 70 was Sheldon.
Basilstate, your mum made a good decision. I have a dozen or more 1919 DDs and same for 1925s, but none of the DDs are better than VG and all the 1925s are VG to VF. Getting a 1925 with 4 pearls is easier than a 1919 DD although prices are similar as most basic collectors just focus on dates and not varieties. At 5 pearls the 1919 DD is worth far more than a 6 pearl 1925 and at 6 pearls the value is nearer to an aUnc 1925. At 7 pearls a 1919 DD is worth more than an Unc 1925 and at 8 pearls the 1919 is probably worth more than a ChUnc 1925. An Unc 1919 DD is worth ???? as none are known so for variety collectors its a holy grail.
Hi Neal...yes hard to find a 1919 DD in Aunc or better,they seemed to be in circulation for 40 years or so without being ID.
There was one for sale on Ebay UK a few years back(i think it was mentioned on this Forum) with a claimed grade of Aunc. but the seller was in Turkey which raised red flags.Possible scam with substituted Obverse photo.
If genuine it was the only one i've seen,i have photos from the listing somewhere.
I won't harp on it but official 1925 penny mintage figures are a joke,obviously either 1924 or 1926 mintages,or both, include coins dated 1925.
Sydney Dealers in the 1960's had shoebox's full of them,from the early 1940's Dealers were sorting thousands of coins a week looking for the 1930,1925 was a by-catch so not surprising in the 1960's it was hard to find one (1925 penny) in circulation.
Sorry for not discussing 1919D's ... but getting back on topic and since it's been about a year since I was last on here, I think it's fair to say, I am not passionate about coin collecting anymore.
The Royal Australian Mint has stripped away any enjoyment, as stated by others, with their ballots, manipulated supply/demand, and general over charging.
I was preferring the US Mint, but they have bizarrely put me on an embargo list, as they made a clerical error, and listed me as owing them money with the US Treasury. Calling them at 4am to try and resolve it doesn't work
"what is your social security number?"
"What? I don't have one"
"Then you can't have a debt with us".
Anyway ... it's like the world is conspiring to tell me to get away from this hobby.
There's no enjoyment, so why continue?
Quote from: 'seedyrom' pid='129875' dateline='1740879646'"what is your social security number?"
"What? I don't have one"
"Then you can't have a debt with us".
And you didn't say "Precisely, so get me off this embargo list please."
US dollars aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
US coin issues are mediocre at best.
The only ones worth collecting are the gold and silver issues and they are market manipulated to buggery and overpriced.
Good Morgan's are too dear in Aussie dollars and the new ones are ridiculously overpriced.
I'd say you are well out of the US market.
Quote from: 'mrcruise' pid='129260' dateline='1717237476'1. Coin Collecting is about Enjoyment of Collecting Coins
2. Coin Collecting is about Making Money on Coins Purchased
I've been collecting for 23 years, and all the while have rarely made a purchase without considering resale value. Unfortunately, the ups and downs of a coin market means one had better like the coin they buy because in most cases you're probably going to have it for a while. Anyhow, I do enjoy what I've collected and have not sold a thing. So, I reckon I'm a collector, even if I do consider resale value.
Same here Auto.,i've always been a collector but Ebay changed the status quo.,i couldn't resist selling some of my collection in the early 2000's,prices were just too good,$50+ for a 33 o/d Penny,$100 for a 1919 DD,$50+ for a 1920 DD etc.
Everything has levelled out 20 years later however,hard to get a reasonable $ for scarcer pre-decimals,i think a lot of collectors have moved to the RAM's trinkets.
So true Basil. Ebay and a couple of local coin dealers is where I started. Probably paid too much for some, but on occasions some bargains were to be had.
Quote from: 'Basilstate' pid='129889' dateline='1741213605'Everything has levelled out 20 years later however, hard to get a reasonable $ for scarcer pre-decimals, i think a lot of collectors have moved to the RAM's trinkets.
I think it's more than that. Price is determined by scarcity and demand. The demand for pre-decimals has dropped, I think, because those who used to use it and be fond of it have mostly passed away. People are more fond of decimals because it's the currency that they use.
I know for me, when I started in the year 2000 most good pre-decimals were waaaay beyond my price range so I launched into decimals. And it feels like the price of decimals has relatively increased from back then.
Interesting question that I don't know the answer to, I wonder if the price of sovereigns has gone up or down since 2000 as even those alive in 2000 didn't use sov's in day to ay use.
Quote from: 'WavyTwenty' pid='129909' dateline='1742868944'Quote from: 'Basilstate' pid='129889' dateline='1741213605'Everything has levelled out 20 years later however, hard to get a reasonable $ for scarcer pre-decimals, i think a lot of collectors have moved to the RAM's trinkets.
Interesting question that I don't know the answer to, I wonder if the price of sovereigns has gone up or down since 2000 as even those alive in 2000 didn't use sov's in day to ay use.
Yes,the interest in Oz. pre-decimal has defintely declined especially the last decade or so.
STBO but Sovereigns go up as Gold goes up,on Ebay they have gone from around A$800 4-5 years ago to around A$1100 these days as Gold hovers around US$3,000,they are a good investment as they rarely loose value.
Seems like there is still demand for premium coins.
100 Million dollars worth of coins are up for sale from a single collector are out for auction over the next few years.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/27/style/buried-coin-collection-auction-scli-intl/index.html
Interesting,its amazing what's out there.
The Samasko horde was interesting,the Oz. Gold Sovereigns from the horde were graded by PCGS and found their way onto Ebay USA a few years back,i wanted at least one but no matter what i bid the same person outbid me on every one.
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2012/sep/16/gold-worth-7-million-found-house-after-nevada-man-/
For me its both.
Most of my coins are for my enjoyment and I have thousands of common and slightly older (Back to late 1800s) world coins, mostly of muck metal, that I know will never be worth more than a few dollars. I also have some nice date runs of coins and complete sets of predecimal stuff and many of these coins go well in advance of melt value and I have paid well over melt value for them.
Yet I have a gold collection too, that gives me much joy and I can quit for some serious moolah if I ever need it. I also have about 5kg of stacking silver (Mostly Junk silver from USA, UK, Australia, Canada and NZ) which can bring some $$$$.
I know errors, mules etc are all very popular now, but I have never really got into them - just can't see what the appeal is.
But I think the choice of invest or collect, is up to each individual collector and also what amount of each if you do both. I know some people just love coins for coins and others treat it like a sharemarket exercise and making money only.
I collect coins because I'm slightly autistic I guess. Well ... that's why I originally started. I worked in retail, and enjoyed finding rare coins.
Then it became a case of "I want a full set".
Then it became "I better collect 3 of everything. One for me, and one set for each of my children".
Now with the volume of releases (I also collect US coins for added stress), I don't actually find enjoyment in it. It is a burden trying to keep up. E.g. Can you really say you have a 50c collection if you don't also have the Countdown 50c, or the Bananas in Pyjamas, or the "only released as a silver proof in a commemorative tin" etc?
The worst part is my son (20) has watched me, and he now collects Pokémon cards.
But, he is buying so much stuff and just storing it. I've tried to talk to him about saving up to buy a house. But he refers to these as "investments".
The weird part is, I can't see the logic in a piece of cardboard being an investment ... but then again, the mint uses bits of cardboard and plastic to differentiate their investment products.
So in summary, for me ... it's number 1 (but waning).
For my son, it's number 2.