Already the UK's Royal mint website has been temporally closed because of the high volume of visitors to the website. It probably can't manage the number of visitors.
Is there an opportunity for any current coin/note (Assuming they change the $5 note) that may only have a low volume?
Does anyone know if the mint is allowed to continue to print her effigy?
I believe they are able to until after Charles' coronation. Of course all the current coins and notes remain valid.
God save the king.
No doubt unissued stock will still be sent to the banks but planning would be well in hand to change to Charles' effigy.
Has a Charles portrait been decided for the effigy?
They continued to mint Geo V coins well into 1937 and Geo VI into 1953. Any 2023 struck coins with the queens effigy will be dated 2022. I do wonder if this late in the year if any mints have already struck 2023 dated coins with the queen on them for those buying for Christmas presents. If so will they be scrapped or will they be shipped? And if scrapped will any be kept officially or any snuck out from the scrapping process?
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='126924' dateline='1662681620'but planning would be well in hand to change to Charles' effigy.
Aren't there efforts by some folks to get rid of the monarch's portrait on Aussie coinage and the $5 note?
I agree with nealeffendi.
As I have already posted about on other forums, no, they haven't yet picked a portrait for Charles III. They couldn't, while the queen was still alive; it would have not only been a breach of protocol, but actually rather rude of them to start designing her successor's coins before she'd actually died. "We've got new coins to design, so hurry up and die already". So no, there are no secret plans in place to quickly swap over the portraiture.
At some time in the next month or two, they'll invite artists to make official portraits for use on coinage and other official documents (like British postage stamps). Then another month or two to turn that design into an actual coin portrait, then submit that design back to the monarch for final approval. This isn't ancient Rome, we all know Charles III is the king now, so there's no urgent propaganda need to begin issuing Charles III coinage right away. So no, there will not be any Charles III coins in 2022, and probably not until several months into 2023. I don't think they legally or traditionally have to wait all the way until the coronation before issuing coins, that's just more or less how slowly things went during all of the 20th century monarch transitions. But I'm pretty sure the coins usually came out before the coronation date in the past.
Meanwhile, we're going to keep issuing 2022-dated circulation coins, with the QEII portrait, up until the new king's portrait is ready, whenever that is. Which does mean that, in all likelihood, some 2022-dated coins will still be being struck in early 2023, and that "2022" coins will have a higher-than-expected total mintage as a result.
The big question in my mind is this: are we, finally, going to see a distinctively Australian coin portraiture? Canada has issued its own Canadian-designed portraits for several decades now. We have the talent. There's no law or convention saying we must use the same portrait that Britain uses, the Australian government alone has power to decide upon coin design. The new monarch is a perfect opportunity to change this.
And yes, the larger mints of the Commonwealth (Royal Mint, RCM Canada, RAM, Perth and probably South Africa too) have all been busily striking 2023-dated NCLT coins featuring the queen's portrait, since July if not earlier. Which is probably one reason why all of those mint websites are down for maintenance right now, they're busily redacting those anachronistic coins out of existence. I have long predicted that this modern practice of ante-dating coins would be a problem for the Mints, if the queen happened to die fairly late in the calendar year. And September is quite late.
Banknotes are another matter; I don't think the monarch technically has veto over the portraits used on banknotes, so those can be swapped over at any time, as soon as the artwork is done.
Thanks for the answers so far! Very interesting reading.
The ABC website put up an article about this: What happens to Australian money now Queen Elizabeth II has died? (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-09/what-happens-to-money-notes-coins-queen-elizabeth-ii-dead/100619020)
An interesting read.
What happened when Elizabeth became queen? Does anyone know what happened to scarcity of the late George VI coins became particularly more valuable?
Quote from: 'Sapyx' pid='126930' dateline='1662705474'And yes, the larger mints of the Commonwealth (Royal Mint, RCM Canada, RAM, Perth and probably South Africa too) have all been busily striking 2023-dated NCLT coins featuring the queen's portrait, since July if not earlier. Which is probably one reason why all of those mint websites are down for maintenance right now, they're busily redacting those anachronistic coins out of existence. I have long predicted that this modern practice of ante-dating coins would be a problem for the Mints, if the queen happened to die fairly late in the calendar year. And September is quite late.
I wonder if some of those coins will "suddenly" appear after supposedly supposed to have been melted?
Thanks for the write up, it was a very good read.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='126924' dateline='1662681620'Has a Charles portrait been decided for the effigy?
There was a coin with Prince Charles on the obverse a few years ago - I don't remember the specifics but ICH DEIN was the legend.
And with the 2023-dated coins - what is the cost of striking a coin compared to the cost of the metal? Maybe it'd be more economic sense to just release the coins.
Quote from: 'WavyTwenty' pid='126933' dateline='1662709089'What happened when Elizabeth became queen? Does anyone know what happened to scarcity of the late George VI coins became particularly more valuable?
Well, just look at current catalogue values for transition years. Are the "last year of issue" of George VI scarce? Or George V before him? For the most part, the answer is no. 1936 is very common; so is 1952. At least, it's far easier to obtain them in high grade than, say, 1933 and 1950 coins. And this is both for the same reason: lots of people kept one of those final-year coins as a souvenir of the old king, which means lots of them are still around today in high grade. Also, due to the effect I mentioned earlier: that 1936 coins were being struck well into 1937, and 1952 coins struck into 1953, which mean that mintages for those two years are actually higher than they "ought" to have been, because they were minted with those dates for more than 12 calendar months.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='126940' dateline='1662718148'There was a coin with Prince Charles on the obverse a few years ago - I don't remember the specifics but ICH DEIN was the legend.
The coin you're thinking of there is the Great Britain 2008 five pound coin (http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/display.php?image=nmc9/76-1103&desc=Great%20Britain%20km1103%205%20Pounds%20(2008)%20Prince%20of%20Wales&query=Great%20Britain), for Charles' 60th birthday. His portrait isn't on the obverse, it's on the reverse; the regular IRB QEII portrait is on the obverse. I think the only coin ever struck so far with Charles on the obverse is that Fijian 50 cent coin from 1980 (http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/display_wd.php?dir=img32&image=92386&desc=Fiji%20km45%2050%20Cents%20(1980)%20Prince%20Charles&query=Fiji), and even that one, you can have a debate about which side is really the "obverse".
And both of those portraits are now well out-of-date.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='126940' dateline='1662718148'And with the 2023-dated coins - what is the cost of striking a coin compared to the cost of the metal? Maybe it'd be more economic sense to just release the coins.
Of course it would be cheaper to just sell the anachronisms as-is. But it's not so much about losing money, it's more about the Mints not looking ridiculous and/or insensitive, in selling "2023" coins depicting a deceased monarch as apparently still alive and well in 2023.
The best compromise could well be issuing the coins as-is, but inserting a specially-made card explaining why the coin has the "wrong portrait" on it. I've always thought a
mea culpa is better than a cover-up.
I wonder if they have already started to mint the 2023 coins with the queen on them. Those would surely have to be melted.
When they were talking about coins on the news the other night they showed a mock up of a coin with King Charles the third depicted so that didn't take long. It was mainly to show the next monarch would face in the opposite direction but it was unmistakably Charlie.
Yes, anyone can quickly make a coin-like portrait, especially these days with all kind of AI-CAD assistants. But official portraits always take time, and there's no particular rush.
Back in ancient and mediaeval times, one of the first things a new king/emperor would do is strike coins with his name and portrait. Sometimes within hours of their claiming the throne. But there was often a sense of urgency back then: a new king on the throne often needed to advance their claim in the face of rival claimants, and in the days before mass media of any kind, coins were effective news-broadcasting propaganda tools.
But we've known for decades now that Charles would become the next king, there are no serious rival claimants, and we all saw the news instantly on television and the newsweb feeds. The need for speed simply isn't present, so the selection of the new coin portrait can and most likely will take the same slow, lumbering, tradition-burdened process it has done for the past few centuries.
It will be interesting to see when the new Kings portrait appears on our coins.
Is anyone running a book on when, my moneys on July next year. :grin:
The Aussie mint has said that the 2023 coins will feature King Charles III on the coins.
As Fishing said, I wonder when in the year they will be released?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-13/live-updates-queen-elizabeth-ii-dies-procession-scotland/101431900#live-blog-post-6256
From the ABC website: Australian money is set to depict King Charles III from next year. What does this mean for coin collectors? (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-13/coin-collectors-prepare-for-money-to-depict-king-charles-iii/101424008)
[align=left]"The rarer coins — the pure silver and gold coins, and the commemoratives ... on envelopes — they are the ones that will increase in [value] over the next five to 10 years — not immediately," he said.[/align]
Does anyone think that any coins will become more valuable because they have Queen Elizabeth II on them?
I would have thought that scarcity and demand would have already set the price of all of the coin that she is on. Could there be additional demand for some of her coins now that she has passed away?
I always attribute value to rarity and demand. Things mass produced for an event rarely get worth more unless speculators get heavily involved.
I think he is promoting his own shop for more customers.
"David Wright owns an antiques and collectibles shop in Ballarat"
King Charles III not guaranteed to be on $5 note: assistant treasurer (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/king-charles-iii-not-guaranteed-to-be-on-5-note-assistant-treasurer-20220913-p5bhla.html)
Quote from: 'WavyTwenty' pid='126975' dateline='1663027928'From the ABC website: Australian money is set to depict King Charles III from next year. What does this mean for coin collectors? (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-13/coin-collectors-prepare-for-money-to-depict-king-charles-iii/101424008)
[align=left]"The rarer coins — the pure silver and gold coins, and the commemoratives ... on envelopes — they are the ones that will increase in [value] over the next five to 10 years — not immediately," he said.[/align]
Does anyone think that any coins will become more valuable because they have Queen Elizabeth II on them?
I would have thought that scarcity and demand would have already set the price of all of the coin that she is on. Could there be additional demand for some of her coins now that she has passed away?
Coins won't become valuable just because they have her portrait. Indeed, general circulation coins of 2022 are likely to be among the commonest coins in recent years, because they're likely to continue issuing those coins until quite far into 2023 when the new portrait is ready.
Coins will become valuable if nobody collected them back when they were issued, but suddenly everybody wants one. The royal anniversary NCLT are a potential option. I personally think the 70th anniversary of accession coins issued earlier this year are likely to spike, and to remain higher than they otherwise would have gone. The 70th is, after all, the only one for which only Accession, and not Coronation, commemoratives are available, because she didn't make it to 2023 and the 70th anniversary of her coronation.
I'm still not entirely sure, in terms of value, that it'll do anything more than spike up then go back down again once the euphoria fades. Prices for Princess Diana coins didn't exactly skyrocket after her death, and she was at least as popular as the queen at the time.
I do find it kind of amusing that everyone in the mainstream media is focussed on the money, and how and when it will change.
I can only assume it's because that the coins are one of the few daily, persistent reminders in modern Australian society that the queen actually existed.
I would point out one error on the ABC story they recently posted. They say the 1965 Currency Act requires the monarch's portrait to be shown on the obverse. It does not. The 1965 Act says that coin designs are to be determined by the Treasurer. The Treasurer can, if he or she chooses, dispense with the royal portrait altogether, and no laws would be broken. The only reason they haven't ever done so yet is because of the hue and cry about "republicanism by stealth" that such a move would generate from the monarchists.
I believe there are "standing orders" that Treasury has given the Mint, with regard to coinage design (which includes things like "no living people" and "no anniversary-of-death commemoratives"), which includes "the queen is on the obverse". But like any other standing orders, they can be changed at a whim; they aren't binding, or carry the force of law. Only the force of tradition. They overturned the "no living people" rule when they made the Bradman commemoratives, for example.
I see one major ebay seller, same last name as above, who was selling the 2022 Mint Set at around $30 just a few days ago, has increased to $70.
I just saw this comment and response in the SMH/The Age news blog. It amused me.
(https://scontent.fsyd7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/306462552_1119589288961271_8813144835611472106_n.png?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=ByR_iMHIzEwAX9koWR0&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd7-1.fna&oh=03_AVKRRqXkRc99Cykw8N0KkStX7RrojHnHNK5fHWXTDTo6bw&oe=634690DC)
he he he, old mate may only fit on the fifty cent
I would think, but I could be wrong, that the RAM has already manufactured the 2023 Proof and Uncirculated sets. You would think that they would have QE II's portrait on them.
It isn't just the coins either, it is all the packaging etc. So will they issue them as is, or will they scrap them and re-do them with KC III's portrait?
My bet is they will issue them as is with QE II on them and they will get snapped up like hot cakes.
Mike
I agree - when do the mint sets come out - November or December? But yes no doubt they'll sell them, otherwise they won't have any 2023 sets to sell for a while.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='127005' dateline='1663150494'I agree - when do the mint sets come out - November or December? But yes no doubt they'll sell them, otherwise they won't have any 2023 sets to sell for a while.
Usually mid November is when they are mentioned and released shortly after. Then they mention the Baby Sets in mid January for a February release.
Mike
The latest sovereign info from the mint can be found at :-
https://www.ramint.gov.au/news-media/news/2022-change-effigy-faqs
Yes I got that emailed to me during the week - no circulating coins with the Queen post 2022. So I guess that lets them sell the 2023 sets, and I suppose 2022 will end up being a high mintage "year".
The Brits (well, The Royal Mint) show you how fast a new effigy can be put on coins
https://www.royalmint.com/
Yes that was quick for a new design: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63073983
Apparently done from photos and not from a sitting.
I'm sure surprised at how quick the new portrait was created and approved.
Here's the Royal Mint press release: https://www.royalmint.com/stories/collect/his-majesty-the-kings-official-coinage-portrait/
I can only assume there was pressure from the Mint's marketing department, to not have the entire NCLT production line grind to a halt for several months while a new portrait was chosen.
At least Charles III wasn't as fussy about the portrait as his grand-uncle was.
Quote from: 'Sapyx' pid='127107' dateline='1664532990'I'm sure surprised at how quick the new portrait was created and approved.
I think it has been planned for quite some time. Otherwise, creation and approval wouldn't have happened this fast.
So much for ''we don't do it while the reigning monarch still lives.''
I wonder if the RCM and RAM have been surprised by it. It'll be very interesting to see how fast they come up with a portrait of Charles III -- either this ome or one of their own.
New coins, especially NCLT, need to be ready for the holiday season.
Quote from: 'Sapyx' pid='127107' dateline='1664532990'I can only assume there was pressure from the Mint's marketing department, to not have the entire NCLT production line grind to a halt for several months while a new portrait was chosen.
No doubt - time is money.
Anyway, doesn't look too bad, though something about the eyes seems a bit off - they're too small or too closed I think.
I doubt RAM will bother to create it's own likeness. There shouldn't be any delay in the 2023 issue if adopted quickly.
Personally, if I was Charlie, I wouldn't be happy with the bits behind and below his ear.
[quote="redlock" pid='127108' dateline='1664558916']
I think it has been planned for quite some time. Otherwise, creation and approval wouldn't have happened this fast.
So much for ''we don't do it while the reigning monarch still lives.''
I wonder if the RCM and RAM have been surprised by it. It'll be very interesting to see how fast they come up with a portrait of Charles III -- either this ome or one of their own.
New coins, especially NCLT, need to be ready for the holiday season.
[/quote]
I think it's more a case of "dispensing with the tradition of needing a formal portrait sitting", rather than having pre-made portraits lined up and ready to go. The Royal Mint press release indicates the artist worked off recent photographs. Though it's entirely possible the Mint had pre-selected their artist of choice, so perhaps he got in some practice artwork before getting the official call-up. The most recent "official coinage portrait" of Charles III, made back in 2008 when he was still Prince Charles for a coin commemorating his 60th birthday, was made by Ian Rank Broadley, who had also designed the Queen's coinage portrait in use at the time. That 14 year old portrait is, obviously, out of date, not to mention facing the wrong way.
And yes, the RAM seem to have been caught off guard by the haste made by the Royal Mint in making this announcement so soon. The RAM's FAQ page, written back on 13/9/22, still has the "over a year" timetable they originally estimated.
[quote="gweidion" pid='127110' dateline='1664599405']
I doubt RAM will bother to create it's own likeness. There shouldn't be any delay in the 2023 issue if adopted quickly.
Personally, if I was Charlie, I wouldn't be happy with the bits behind and below his ear.
[/quote]
The Mint has already announced they won't be going it alone this time, but accepting whatever the Royal Mint gives them.
Philip Lowe, Governor of the Reserve Bank said tis at the Reserve Bank Board Dinner last night;
"The Reserve Bank is also responsible for the design of Australia's banknotes. Given this, we are currently considering the design of the $5 banknote following the passing of Queen Elizabeth II. We recognise that this is an issue that is of national interest and there is a long tradition of the monarch being on Australia's banknotes. Indeed, the monarch has been on at least one of Australia's banknotes since 1923 and was on all our notes until 1953. Given this tradition and the national significance of the issue, the Bank is consulting with the Australian Government regarding whether or not the new $5 banknote should include a portrait of King Charles III. We will make a decision after this consultation with the government is complete."
The RBA is independent of the government but is consulting the government. Is it a case of, knowing the issue is contentious, they want someone else to blame for the decision if the design is not popular?
Remarks at the Reserve Bank Board Dinner (https://www.rba.gov.au/speeches/2022/sp-gov-2022-11-01.html)
King Charles won't be on our next $5 note (https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/king-charles-won-t-be-on-our-next-5-note-20230202-p5chd9.html)
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='127720' dateline='1675298029'King Charles won't be on our next $5 note (https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/king-charles-won-t-be-on-our-next-5-note-20230202-p5chd9.html)
I am not too deeply informed by Australian politics. But this decision does not surprise me. As far as I underastand it there is a ''republican movement'' and, moreover, wokeness is going global. At least Charles will be on the coins.
Just heard they are looking at putting on a first nations design of some sort.
The first Australians aye. Just my slant on this issue and not intentionally trying to upset anyone.
I don't really care who or what is represented on our bank notes and coins, I just wish we would stop banging on about first nation.
Whenever science breaks new ground in the name of history, in many cases they are correcting a previous error. There is much more knowledge to unfold in my opinion.
Anyhow, my Wife and I both have family connections to people who arrived in the very early days of European settlement, just another phase in the ongoing population of our island continent. Does this mean we be granted rights and privileges over and above more recent family whose parents arrived after WW11. Absolutely not!