i have started sending coins to PCGS and i have had my eyes opened up as most my raw commonwealth coins which i bought as UNC from reputable dealers came back as AU 58 or AU 55 and the only few MS ones were MS 61 OR MS 62 , which means if i ever sell i am going to take a hard hit on them and probably only get 10% of what i paid for them , how many here have sent coins for grading and got terrible results back
Sorry to hear that,but its very common i would say.
I was in Barry Cooper's shop in Ballina a few years back and a guy was showing him PCGS Slabs and was devastated with their gradings,he didn't buy the Coins from Barry,just wanted his opinion and drove down from the Gold Coast to get it,they were purchased from a major Sydney Dealer.
Most dealers overgrade their Coins/Notes,with most auctions you can bet the Coin is overgraded and estimate is undervalued.
After saying that,since the Internet started in Oz. in the mid 1990's the Coin industry is probably,IMO,the best its ever been as far as grading and ethics go,wild west before then.
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='114636' dateline='1522105357'Most dealers overgrade their Coins/Notes,
Surprisingly they even overgrade their slabbed coins. Some dealers will list MS62 slabs as
Choice Uncirculated and MS64 as
Gem! Frankly I wouldn't call anything under MS64 as Choice or under MS66 as Gem. For raw coins they are even more pathetic in their grading and use of adjectives.
Learn to grade coins for yourself then you have nobody else to blame but it does help if you
have decent photos to begin with.Even better if you can see them in hand.Considering the
results you have had so far you are well along the way to knowing what an uncirculated coin
should look like.Trial and error is the best way to learn but be very careful as there are many
raw coin sellers out there who will be happy to rip you off including dealers
Unfortunately that's how the raw coin market is - this is the very reason PCGS has been so successful.
This is the reason why people send pre-decimals coins to PCGS for not only grading but authenticy
Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='114648' dateline='1522146885'Unfortunately that's how the raw coin market is - this is the very reason PCGS has been so successful.
So true :welcome:
So sorry to hear that. That's a real bummer.
Would it not make sense to crack them out of the slab and sell it back to the same dealer then?
Presumably they would get the same grade ;) (you have proof of purchase right?) and not take a 90% hit! (Of course I have no idea when you bought them so the market prices have moved.)
bought most around 10-15 years ago when the market was hotter than now , i do have the recipits , but some of the dealers no longer trade
It is a jungle out there. I have bought raw coins at the start from dealers (on ebay) however quickly realised it is not for me. If I decide now to look for raw coins, I only buy them from collectors. Most raw coins are either not worth slabbing or are cleaned.
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='114668' dateline='1522233585'It is a jungle out there. I have bought raw coins at the start from dealers (on ebay) however quickly realised it is not for me. If I decide now to look for raw coins, I only buy them from collectors. Most raw coins are either not worth slabbing or are cleaned.
it might be safe to assume that most good predecimal coins have already been graded
Quote from: 'frenc11' pid='114675' dateline='1522252035'Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='114668' dateline='1522233585'It is a jungle out there. I have bought raw coins at the start from dealers (on ebay) however quickly realised it is not for me. If I decide now to look for raw coins, I only buy them from collectors. Most raw coins are either not worth slabbing or are cleaned.
it might be safe to assume that most good predecimal coins have already been graded
There are still plenty of good KGV raw coins out there you just have to look and it would be
handy if you could grade them as well so you know if they are overpriced or a bargain
As a numismatic collecting community our concern is now concentrated with the Chinese Fake coins listed on eBay
First time submitters to PCGS often go through the same experience. It starts off hard, but if you put your money on the line, you tend to learn pretty quickly how PCGS assesses coins. And once you have, you'll be able to buy raw coins with high levels of accuracy.
My very first sub to PCGS contained not only cleaned coins and AU58 coins, but a coin where a previous owner had filed down the rim to smooth out an edge knock! It's through constantly sending coins to PCGS, receiving feedback, learning, and then sending over some more that we learn.
Eric
Every poster is right. Possibly most good pre decimal coins out there are have been slabbed, but that still leaves plenty of raw slab worthy coins just waiting to be snapped up (with Stevo and myself probably competing for many of the same coins). As the good stuff is snapped up the ratio of good to not so good (worn, cleaned etc) goes up as does the amount (and quality) of fakes.
I currently have a submission in Newport. With the amount of money involved I spent hours deciding which of my hopefuls get the opportunity of an overseas holiday and what grade I hope they bring home.
Good point Neal. Recently I have picked up graded pre decimal coins much cheaper than raw coins. So if you have good research skills, there are plenty of high grade coins already graded up for grabs. Another thing to look for is NGC graded coins that are under grarded. You can pick them up and regrade them to get a better PCGS grade. But to do that you need to know how to grade coins.
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='114692' dateline='1522375554'Good point Neal. Recently I have picked up graded pre decimal coins much cheaper than raw coins. So if you have good research skills, there are plenty of high grade coins already graded up for grabs. Another thing to look for is NGC graded coins that are under grarded. You can pick them up and regrade them to get a better PCGS grade. But to do that you need to know how to grade coins.
I do buy the occasional NGC slab, but even those I think will upgrade at PCGS I won't crack open. Nothing wrong with NGC slabs and nobody knows if in 20 years if PCGS or NGC will be on top (though NGC will need to have a decent set registry to compete). So why spend the money on cracking out unless you want them for your registry or to sell? And yes the already graded coins can be at a bargain price for grade, with the bonus of not forking out another wad of cash for grading or the expense of return post to California (my "free" submission will cost about $100 for postage). Often the price of the graded coin is less than the grading fee.
Don't just look at NGC, look at ICG and the other smaller or defunct graders with a decent reputation, I have 3 coins from 3 different grading firms (2 defunct local and one Canadian) ready for my next submission.
Agreed. I am a registry set participant, hence my NGC coins doing the second US trip ... but yes there is no other reason to get them regraded.
As they say buy the coin not the slab.
oh no something else to worry about , it never ends
oh no something else to worry about , it never ends[quote="stevo1962" pid='114681' dateline='1522312466']
Quote from: 'frenc11' pid='114675' dateline='1522252035'Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='114668' dateline='1522233585'It is a jungle out there. I have bought raw coins at the start from dealers (on ebay) however quickly realised it is not for me. If I decide now to look for raw coins, I only buy them from collectors. Most raw coins are either not worth slabbing or are cleaned.
it might be safe to assume that most good predecimal coins have already been graded
There are still plenty of good KGV raw coins out there you just have to look and it would be
handy if you could grade them as well so you know if they are overpriced or a bargain
[/quote]
oh no something else to worry about , it never ends
[quote="runway" pid='114683' dateline='1522321788']
As a numismatic collecting community our concern is now concentrated with the Chinese Fake coins listed on eBay
[/quote]
thats a worry
judging by the volume of PCGS AU graded coins on ebay these days seems like i am not the only person who has been hit with a loss in selling my overgraded raw coins ( newly slabbed )
can any body tell me how to get rid of my smilies please as i can not see what i am typing until i send post . thank you , i cant even see how to delete this post
Not sure what your problem is but a few suggestions;
•If there is an issue with a browser it is worthwhile to clear your cache and cookies (https://www.google.com/search?q=clear+cache+and+cookies&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b). Close the browser then and reboot the computer and start again
•Sounds a little like you have things being selected on the page.
-Try hitting the "Esc" key. Does that do anything?
-Is one of your "Shift" buttons stuck down?
-Is a mouse button stuck?
•Might be worth trying a different browser in case the one you are using takes exception to the forum. Firefox (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/) or Chrome (https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95346?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en) are good ones. I personally would not use any browser that comes with Windows.
Jeff