Just thought i would throw this up while things are quiet,this Coins appears to have a DOLS but probably some sort of Cud/Die chip or whatever.I remember reading about some Dots on 1921 Pennies but i think they were on the Obv.
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/377/1921_Penny_dols_dot___close_up.jpg)
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/377/1921_dots_obv.jpg)
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/377/1921_dols_resize.jpg)
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/377/1921_Penny_dols_dot___.jpg)
It does look like a dot, maybe formed from a small die chip? It has what looks like a small hit to the right side or the dot, could something like this have formed the raised effect? But then again, it could be a dot plain and simple! The only dot on a 1921 penny I know of is the dot in front of crown as per below.
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/270/1921_Penny_Dot_in_front_of_crown.JPG)
Looks like general circulation dings and knocks, the dot above the scroll looks to have a little black pit that a pin might have made with metal being displaced like a bomb crater. If you can identify the particular die (diecracks are helpful, can't see one on the reverse but perhaps the obverse?) and find another from that same die it should show if the dot was on the die or just a ding. Even on the die a dot may just be a surface fault (rust, grit etc) and not a deliberately added mark.
Ok,Thanks for replies,i'll throw up the Obv. for future Ref.I don't have the Coin,if i do get it i'll get the USB scope on it.
There is a slight die crack D IM on the obverse. That narrows it down to a couple of die pairs to look at.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='114327' dateline='1520126728'Looks like general circulation dings and knocks,
If you're referring to the dot in front of crown, it's definitely a raised cud and I only call it a dot for the sake of giving it a name, but it's certainly not the result of circulation dings and knocks.
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='114330' dateline='1520136075'Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='114327' dateline='1520126728'Looks like general circulation dings and knocks,
If you're referring to the dot in front of crown, it's definitely a raised cud and I only call it a dot for the sake of giving it a name, but it's certainly not the result of circulation dings and knocks.
I was referring to Basil's penny reverse. Your obverse is a well known variety (though how can you be certain it is a raised CUD and not due to some other defect like a piece of hard matter getting embedded into the die and leaving a hole)
I can't I guess, but be it a die chip or an indent in the die from some other means, cud sounds good to me :angel:
The depression above the 'S' in Australia seems to be some sort of Die(or Blank/Planchet) flaw as well rather than a hit but it really needs a scope on it.
No Dots but is this Info. on the 1921 English Obv. Penny correct?,its in the latest Newsletter from Smalls Auctions,i don't know how they got my Email address but i've been getting these pearls of wisdom for the last few Months.
I thought the 1921 was similar to the 1920 English,scarce but around,i have several somewhere,i'll have to try and find them.
https://smallsauctions.com/the-conspiracy-of-the-1921-english-obverse-penny/
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='115924' dateline='1530598085'No Dots but is this Info. on the 1921 English Obv. Penny correct?,its in the latest Newsletter from Smalls Auctions,i don't know how they got my Email address but i've been getting these pearls of wisdom for the last few Months.
I thought the 1921 was similar to the 1920 English,scarce but around,i have several somewhere,i'll have to try and find them.
https://smallsauctions.com/the-conspiracy-of-the-1921-english-obverse-penny/
They are not pearls of wisdom but terribly misinformed. Perth received dies from a number of sources (Sydney, Melbourne and London) and the 1921 English obverse penny could have been struck in 1922 (by either Perth or Melbourne). There are also 3 different obverse dies known, none of which match the 1920 English dies (2 with Dot Below and the rare Dot Above).
There is no evidence that Sydney struck the 1919 .//. and the obverse die for the 1919 .//. was also paired with a 1919/ but not with any 1920 or 1921 reverse. As for there being only 2 in Unc I'd have to question that as there are 2 in MS slabs at PCGS and there are also several raw examples.
Also JFK most likely was killed by an accidental shot fired by a member of the secret service.
And lightning can strike the same place twice (A guy in the US by the name of Roy Sullivan survived all 7 times he was struck by lightning).
Lightning can do just more than strike in the same place twice -it strikes in some places many, many times (high spots, highly conductive ground and, off course, lightening rods on buildings). Not to forget clouds either -often the lightening "flash" starts at ground level and goes up to meet a contra flash from above.
That's an interesting read, thanks for posting. The thing I don't like about statements like, "only two known", is that you can just about be certain there are more raw examples of the 1921 London obverse penny out there in mint state.
If we look at the 1920 dot over bottom scroll London obverse penny for example, there are 5 registered with PCGS, but from various surveys taken it's generally accepted there are about 20 known over all. If this ratio was applied to the 1921 London obverse penny, there may be at least 6 more out there in mint state. Still a very rare beast, but we shouldn't be relying on TPG registrations to ascertain populations IMO. In another 50 years maybe? :)
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='115929' dateline='1530613270'That's an interesting read, thanks for posting. The thing I don't like about statements like, "only two known", is that you can just about be certain there are more raw examples of the 1921 London obverse penny out there in mint state.
If we look at the 1920 dot over bottom scroll London obverse penny for example, there are 5 registered with PCGS, but from various surveys taken it's generally accepted there are about 20 known over all. If this ratio was applied to the 1921 London obverse penny, there may be at least 6 more out there in mint state. Still a very rare beast, but we shouldn't be relying on TPG registrations to ascertain populations IMO. In another 50 years maybe? :)
A pet peeve of mine is that PCGS only includes in their population report coins that they give a grade to. So emus N1 no grade 1920 ./ English makes it 6 examples in PCGS slabs (not 5). For some rare older coins or tokens the majority would be No Grade due to cleaning, corrosion or piercing.
Also as PCGS won't accept submissions from me (as I refuse to give them the counterfeit shillings they stupidly slabbed) it means a number of 1920 ./ English won't be slabbed. Now I just need to live another 50 years :zomby:
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='115924' dateline='1530598085'No Dots but is this Info. on the 1921 English Obv. Penny correct?,its in the latest Newsletter from Smalls Auctions,i don't know how they got my Email address but i've been getting these pearls of wisdom for the last few Months.
I thought the 1921 was similar to the 1920 English,scarce but around,i have several somewhere,i'll have to try and find them.
https://smallsauctions.com/the-conspiracy-of-the-1921-english-obverse-penny/
I see that 1921 English obv. penny sold for $19,000 :shock:
Yeah,nice price.
This is not a Coin i've worried about but have collected these 4 egs. over the years,i have a 5th that is in a better grade i put in the'slabbing pile' but can't find at the moment,will throw up a Pic. when i find it.
I read in a Book many years ago that the 1921 English Obverse was minted in Sydney,140,000(at least that's what i wrote on the 2x2 in the 1970's) odd,but the Perth assumption(lots of dots joined there) may hold water as well.
The 3rd Coin may have been hit with a different Rev Die to the others,it has the LHS showing on the top and lower scrolls.
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/377/AAA_Ebay_sales_00001.jpg)
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/377/AAA_Ebay_sales_00002.jpg)
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/377/AAA_Ebay_sales_00003.jpg)
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/377/AAA_Ebay_sales_00004.jpg)
(https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/377/Ashampoo_Snap_resize.jpg)