Hoping to pick the brains of some of our experts. I have a heap of florins that I have removed from a Dansco push in album. These florins are mostly uncirculated with full luster on the reverse but the obverse has reacted with the album and turned a dull almost brown colour. Is there anything that I can do to improve the look without destroying any value that may be left.
Thanks P.Gee
Images of the affected coins would help.
Sorry, forgot the pictures.
This is one of the more expensive coins that I would like to save. Thankfully they don't owe me anything as they came in one of the collections that I bought a while ago, that has more than paid for itself all ready. So its all a bonus from here.
Thanks again for any help.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11534/1939_Florin_200k_re.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11534/1939_Florin_200k_ob.jpg)
There's really not much you can do. Anything mechanical or chemical will alter the surfaces and destroy any remaining value. The best you can hope for is to neutralise/flush away any contaminants and prevent further deterioration.
Water, Acetone, RP7, ... anything gentle enough not to wreck the coin is going to be too gentle to address the problem. :(
One of those cases where prevention is the only answer. You should see the former pristine 50¢ collection I put into PVC pages when I first started, and forgot about until I found them a couple weeks ago. I actually felt bad throwing them in the pond, as they really weren't pleasant to touch.
A soak in Xylene will, maybe, be more effective than the agents Fulvio suggest. But probably not going to do much better (if at all).
If you send them to PCGS/NGC for "Conservation" they will Dip them and then grade them, However IF You dip them PCGS/NGC most likely Wont grade them and "Boddybag" them "Details altered surfaces".:angel:
The damage has already been done so all you can really do is use acetone/xylene to tidy them up a bit then put them in saflips/2x2's to arrest any further damage unfortunately.
BTW Nice 39 :good:
PCGS restoration for more expensive coins. I think the cost would be $200 or so...
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='111157' dateline='1504084378'PCGS restoration for more expensive coins. I think the cost would be $200 or so...
USD 30 (about $40) or 2% is the minimum restoration and grading fee.
$20 grading fee (Economy)
$72.94 shipping (up to 10 coins
$30 Minimum for "restoration"
$30 registered postage to US
$152.94 USD or $192.33 AUD
Ausproofs $200 estimate is pretty spot on
Quote from: 'p.gee' pid='111153' dateline='1504073749'Sorry, forgot the pictures.
This is one of the more expensive coins that I would like to save. Thankfully they don't owe me anything as they came in one of the collections that I bought a while ago, that has more than paid for itself all ready. So its all a bonus from here.
Thanks again for any help.
Try warm soap and water.
Use soap that is more soluble and not perfumed.
Rinse in distilled water.
https://www.pcgs.com/restoration#pricing
Link to PCGS.
Also as Echidna said, warm soap and water works (I have only done this for cheap coins, if you have $$$$ I would go with restoration as you get a cleaner coin that is graded as well).
Unfortunately no amount of soap and water or acetone/xylene will remove the toning on these coins.
The coins have reacted with the cardboard in the push in albums which is Not uncommon with these types of albums.
I got rid of my Dansco push in albums a while back for this very reason.
Many coins are salvageable like the one I restored below but you have to review each
coin on a case by case basis and up the anti in stages as required but unfortunately
some coins are too far gone
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/3~7.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/4~5.jpg)
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='111164' dateline='1504096472'Many coins are salvageable like the one I restored below but you have to review each
coin on a case by case basis and up the anti in stages as required but unfortunately
some coins are too far gone
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/3~7.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/4~5.jpg)
Nice job there stevo
Is that just the warm soapy water method you used. I have a few that I wouldn't mind having a go at
Quote from: 'gabby' pid='111167' dateline='1504126884'Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='111164' dateline='1504096472'Many coins are salvageable like the one I restored below but you have to review each
coin on a case by case basis and up the anti in stages as required but unfortunately
some coins are too far gone
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/3~7.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/4~5.jpg)
Nice job there stevo
Is that just the warm soapy water method you used. I have a few that I wouldn't mind having a go at
Warm soapy water won't get that stuff off and neither will acetone so I use WD40
most of the time and it doesnt harm the surfaces so long as you dont let it soak
for too long,No more than 30 minutes at a time because if you leave it in the WD40
for more than that it will start to eat into the pattina.Mine will then generally grade at
PCGS no problem unless there are other issues.
BTW a lot of people will call this cleaning but at the end of the day I'd rather protect my
coins instead of leaving them to rot and anyway PCGS call it restoration
Quoteso I use WD40 most of the time
Would that work just as well on silver coins, or only bronze?
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='111173' dateline='1504137858'Quote from: 'gabby' pid='111167' dateline='1504126884'Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='111164' dateline='1504096472'Many coins are salvageable like the one I restored below but you have to review each
coin on a case by case basis and up the anti in stages as required but unfortunately
some coins are too far gone
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/3~7.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/4~5.jpg)
Nice job there stevo
Is that just the warm soapy water method you used. I have a few that I wouldn't mind having a go at
Warm soapy water won't get that stuff off and neither will acetone so I use WD40
most of the time and it doesnt harm the surfaces so long as you dont let it soak
for too long,No more than 30 minutes at a time because if you leave it in the WD40
for more than that it will start to eat into the pattina.Mine will then generally grade at
PCGS no problem unless there are other issues.
BTW a lot of people will call this cleaning but at the end of the day I'd rather protect my
coins instead of leaving them to rot and anyway PCGS call it restoration
OK thanks mate.
Will try a bit of WD40 and see how I go
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='111174' dateline='1504138076'Quoteso I use WD40 most of the time
Would that work just as well on silver coins, or only bronze?
Yeah it works on silver too Nancy
QuoteBTW a lot of people will call this cleaning but at the end of the day I'd rather protect my
coins instead of leaving them to rot and anyway PCGS call it restoration
I all seriousness a large percentage of our pre decimal silver coins must Have already been dipped/cleaned at some stage, It is hard to imagine a Hundred year old Stirling Silver coin NOT developing any tarnish/toning whatsoever during that time.
The chemicals used to remove Verdigris/toning/tarnish from a coin act by removing a microscopically thin layer from the surface of a coin and as the Lustre on a coin is also microscopically thin these chemicals CAN permanently damage a coins natural lustre.
It annoys me that a TPG can "Dip" a coin then give it a straight grade But if a Dealer or Collector was to do the same thing they are vilified for "Cleaning" the coin.
Coins will continue to be dipped/cleaned because many collectors prefer a Blast white silver coin But at the end of the day these coins WILL eventually be destroyed due to this practice.
Personally I Much prefer a coin with all its natural toning and tarnish "Intact" because the chances of the coin having suffered a dipping are far less than with a blast white coin.
TPG's call coins cleaned because of whats been done to the surfaces and not because of whats been removed
If you want to experiment on a lesser value coin I have found that ethanolamine is very effective at removing tarnish from silver coins. Five minutes (maybe more) does not affect the surfaces -a 1966 50¢ that was in very nice condition, but rather black, came up nicely and PCGS graded it at MS63. I don't know if it will be effective on the brown colouration you have but could be worth a try.
Put the coin(s) in a glass or plastic tray and give a spray. It will foam up, let it sit in the foam for a while. With tarnish the foam will turn from white to blue as it extracts the sulphur. I have not been able to find out how it works but, presumably, a chemical (not physical) reaction.
You ask "What is ethanolamine and where do I get it?" Simple, it is the active ingredient in some non-caustic oven cleaners. Woolworths Homebrand is one and Coles has a similar in their house brand. If all else fails you can still clean your oven and soiled baking trays -works wonders on them and no nasty fumes.
Under no circumstances try any cleaner containing sodium hydroxide (caustic soda). That will ruin a coin quick smart!
Another possibility (generally used for removing tarnish on silverware) is the old hot water, bicarb soda and aluminium foil trick. Here is a link (http://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/home-among-the-gumtrees/making-and-mending/cleaning-silverware/) to the details of the procedure.
No guarantees on these left field suggestions. I repeat try it only on a lesser value coin first.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='111179' dateline='1504140742'QuoteBTW a lot of people will call this cleaning but at the end of the day I'd rather protect my
coins instead of leaving them to rot and anyway PCGS call it restoration
I all seriousness a large percentage of our pre decimal silver coins must Have already been dipped/cleaned at some stage, It is hard to imagine a Hundred year old Stirling Silver coin NOT developing any tarnish/toning whatsoever during that time.
The chemicals used to remove Verdigris/toning/tarnish from a coin act by removing a microscopically thin layer from the surface of a coin and as the Lustre on a coin is also microscopically thin these chemicals CAN permanently damage a coins natural lustre.
It annoys me that a TPG can "Dip" a coin then give it a straight grade But if a Dealer or Collector was to do the same thing they are vilified for "Cleaning" the coin.
Coins will continue to be dipped/cleaned because many collectors prefer a Blast white silver coin But at the end of the day these coins WILL eventually be destroyed due to this practice.
Personally I Much prefer a coin with all its natural toning and tarnish "Intact" because the chances of the coin having suffered a dipping are far less than with a blast white coin.
Actually I agree with you there about blast white coins.They are just unnatural looking
and I prefer a bit of toning which gives them that untouched look
Thanks everyone for your advice it is greatly appreciated. I will try out the ideas you have given me on some of the cheaper coins before I attempt anything on the more expensive ones.
With the soapy water, what is the best soap to use as some soaps can be harsh. Would any non perfumed soap be ok or a dish washing liquid. Do I just soak it and rinse or is there more to it. When drying the coin is it best to pat dry or just air dry.
Also, with the acetone, are there any threads or web pages anyone knows of that explain the techniques to use. I.e. How long to soak etc.
:angel:
I use detergent, a few drops in warm water. I purchase the lightest colour I can find -some are brightly coloured (obviously die in them). Doesn't make much difference with "silver" coins but the aluminium bronze coins pick up colour stains. Lately I have been using Windex Mr Muscle Shower spray which is completely clear and, from the smell, has an alcohol base. In this case a few squirts in the water.
Actually an old bloke told me how to do a final clean on coins to remove any chemical residue
and it goes like this.
Get some dishwashing liquid and squirt generously on both sides of the coin while holding
by the rim between 2 fingers.Then lightly roll the dishwashing liquid around both surfaces of the coin
between your 2 fingers.Your fingers dont actually touch the coin surfaces because of the film of
dishwashing liquid and then wash off with warm water.Pat dry with a teatowel and then you're done.
Never had a problem or marked a coin and have graded many coins at PCGS after this precedure
Thanks guys I'll give it a go and post some results, good or bad, if there is much change.
Great!
Quote from: 'p.gee' pid='111217' dateline='1504176542'Thanks guys I'll give it a go and post some results, good or bad, if there is much change.
Whatever method you decide to use try it on some scrap coins first so that you can perfect your methods before having a crack at the good stuff :good:
Quote from: 'p.gee' pid='111151' dateline='1504069590'Hoping to pick the brains of some of our experts. I have a heap of florins that I have removed from a Dansco push in album. These florins are mostly uncirculated with full luster on the reverse but the obverse has reacted with the album and turned a dull almost brown colour. Is there anything that I can do to improve the look without destroying any value that may be left.
Thanks P.Gee
First off, thanks for bringing this to our attention, especially mine.
I have numerous albums of the kind described that I haven't looked at for years.
I am now a bit nervous as to what I am going to find.
Some of the albums, have at least this many again.
(//%5Bimg%5Dhttp://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10029/folders.jpg)[/img]
Mate, Get the coins out of those things and into some archival quality albums ( Like the PP albums) because your coins will thank you for it in the long run :ok:
They can also hide rim damage ( or create it)
Its not until you pry the coin out that serious rim damage is found
And that has happened to me with the supreme albums as well