Australian-Coins Forum

Australian Coins, Banknotes and Exonumia => Australian Decimal Circulating Coins => Topic started by: kchan1111 on June 04, 2017, 06:26:41 PM

Title: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: kchan1111 on June 04, 2017, 06:26:41 PM
RAM is selling 2017 rolls directly now...

https://eshop.ramint.gov.au/Rolled-Coin-Set/710128.aspx

They are the subject of many hopeful enquiries and the source of much nostalgia for coin collectors. In 2017, the Royal Australian Mint gives you the rare opportunity to purchase sets of circulating coins in rolls.

For a number of years, Royal Australian Mint branded rolled coins have only been available to coin dealers and have been highly coveted by collectors and investors alike. In this set, you will receive six rolls (one roll of each denomination) forming an instant collection of 2017-dated coins.

20 one dollar coins ($20 roll)
25 two dollar coins ($50 roll)
20 fifty cent coins ($10 roll)
20 twenty cent coins ($4 roll)
40 ten cent coins ($4 roll)  
40 five cent coins ($2 roll)
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Unicorn on June 04, 2017, 06:38:32 PM
Bless their cotton socks!!!
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: runway on June 04, 2017, 07:10:03 PM
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='109118' dateline='1496567312'Bless their cotton socks!!!
Ha ha love the sarcasm :yahoo:
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: seedyrom on June 04, 2017, 07:19:32 PM
Geez, not shy about putting a markup on

The Canadian mint does it better

(http://www.mint.ca/store/dyn/html/swr2017mcmi/img/product/157556_hero-570.jpg)
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: kchan1111 on June 04, 2017, 07:25:39 PM
Quote from: 'seedyrom' pid='109121' dateline='1496569772'Geez, not shy about putting a markup on

Yeah I thought so too at first. But taking a look at dealer websites, the mark-ups are similar.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: seedyrom on June 04, 2017, 07:47:53 PM
Down the bottom where it says:
** Heads and tails are not guaranteed.

Does that mean you could potentially have a roll with a tail side at either end, and not know by looking at the roll that it is a 2017 edition roll?
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: kchan1111 on June 04, 2017, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: 'seedyrom' pid='109124' dateline='1496571473'Down the bottom where it says:
** Heads and tails are not guaranteed.

Does that mean you could potentially have a roll with a tail side at either end, and not know by looking at the roll that it is a 2017 edition roll?

Oh seedy, if you can't trust the government, who can you trust? :ok:
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: seedyrom on June 04, 2017, 08:21:15 PM
LOL




Nah, would hate to get this, and a 2018 set, but get them mixed up.
For the price uplift above face value, they could try a little harder.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: trout on June 04, 2017, 08:29:53 PM
Good Grief :dash1:
We have been asking RAM to make these rolls available for quite some time now so that we didn't have to pay the ridicules Premium the dealers charged and here they are charging the same bloody price. :dodgy:

The Canadian and the US mints provide this service to collectors at a "Reasonable" cost But our RAM comes up with this BS, Which is just another kick in the Guts to Australian collectors.
RAM has been providing their "Pet" dealers with rolls at nothing like this cost for some time now and the pricing by RAM for these 2017 rolls will only cement the dealers Stranglehold on these rolls, Personally I think this is disgusting.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: coinsydney on June 04, 2017, 08:53:44 PM
:o the markup is crazy! About 300%
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: robbiegal on June 04, 2017, 09:08:40 PM
Quote from: 'trout' pid='109130' dateline='1496573993'Good Grief :dash1:
We have been asking RAM to make these rolls available for quite some time now so that we didn't have to pay the ridicules Premium the dealers charged and here they are charging the same bloody price. :dodgy:

The Canadian and the US mints provide this service to collectors at a "Reasonable" cost But our RAM comes up with this BS, Which is just another kick in the Guts to Australian collectors.
RAM has been providing their "Pet" dealers with rolls at nothing like this cost for some time now and the pricing by RAM for these 2017 rolls will only cement the dealers Stranglehold on these rolls, Personally I think this is disgusting.


can't argue with that mate
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: jimmy1979 on June 04, 2017, 09:42:16 PM
Unbelievable. The RAM will continue with these shabby tactics until collectors start leaving the market. They will then reduce their prices hoping to lure them back in. Shame on you RAM!!!!! $90 face value being sold for $220, plus your $10 postage. How can this be justified??
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: runway on June 04, 2017, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: 'jimmy1979' pid='109140' dateline='1496578336'Unbelievable. The RAM will continue with these shabby tactics until collectors start leaving the market. They will then reduce their prices hoping to lure them back in. Shame on you RAM!!!!! $90 face value being sold for $220, plus your $10 postage. How can this be justified??
Dealer postage will cost more than $10 postage I assure you ... they weigh a lot and Australia Post parcel is expensive
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Triggersmob on June 04, 2017, 10:28:42 PM
Quote from: 'jimmy1979' pid='109140' dateline='1496578336'Shame on you RAM!!!!! $90 face value being sold for $220, plus your $10 postage. How can this be justified??

At 2.44 times face value, that's a good deal compared to buying one set
of coins in a uncirculated set at 6.5 times face value.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: kchan1111 on June 04, 2017, 10:53:04 PM
Quote from: 'Triggersmob' pid='109143' dateline='1496581122'
Quote from: 'jimmy1979' pid='109140' dateline='1496578336'Shame on you RAM!!!!! $90 face value being sold for $220, plus your $10 postage. How can this be justified??

At 2.44 times face value, that's a good deal compared to buying one set
of coins in a uncirculated set at 6.5 times face value.

That's right. I have seen a set of 2016 changeover rolls going for more than that. The $2 rolls are going for 2x face. The 2014 AIATSIS 50c rolls are gong for 4.5x face. So it seems reasonable.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: trout on June 05, 2017, 02:02:49 AM
These rolls do NOT contain special collector coins, They are simply circulating coins that have been minted for the Australian government and the Mint already gets paid to produce them for this purpose.
To charge the Australian public this much Extra for these coins is just so wrong especially as the Mint already gets paid to produce these by Australian tax payers.
What part of "Reasonable" is it for a government department to "Monopolise" these and hold collectors to ransom.
The Mint should be supplying these at face value because that is what they have been contracted to do and to put a 244%  surcharge on these coins just because they are rolled (just like they used to be) is very wrong and possibly a breach of contract.
Why is it that RAM supplies the "Baggies" at NO extra cost But not the rolls?
The only justification for these ridicules charges is to ensure that the "Pet" dealers can continue to Rip collectors off year after year with their exclusive access to these RAM rolls .
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Cockatoo Coins on June 05, 2017, 07:13:31 AM
Dealers have only ever charged the Rams RRP for rolls, we dont get them at face value either, if the Ram sold them at close to their face value they wouldn't be economical to produce and neither the mint or dealers would bother with them as the margins are tight enough already
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Hercules on June 05, 2017, 08:56:16 AM
It's a great idea, but not economical for me at all. On a positive note, at least we now know that all of the standard designs will be circulating this year.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: JeffH on June 05, 2017, 04:03:38 PM
How to make friends and influence people........
Manufacturers who also sell retail and compete with their wholesale customers generally upset the wholesale customers. And they aren't really doing most collectors a favour with, perhaps, the exception of ones who live away from the cities and don't have easy access to a dealer.
Sort of a lose/lose situation just to try and make a few extra dollars.

That said the RAM shop is a commercial operation and sales and marketing decisions would be much the same as for any retailer. The RAM shop however has one difference from a normal dealer -they are perceived to have the clout of the mint behind them.
If they did have any influence with the mint (manufacturing side) they would be well advised to be pushing for some decent quality with some of the coins they sell. It is most disappointing to open multiple bags and not find one coin devoid of numerous scratches and scrapes. Yet I can open twenty year old rolls (or even security firm bags) with confidence of finding a number of unmarked coins.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Hercules on June 05, 2017, 04:37:07 PM
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='109172' dateline='1496644418'It is most disappointing to open multiple bags and not find one coin devoid of numerous scratches and scrapes. Yet I can open twenty year old rolls (or even security firm bags) with confidence of finding a number of unmarked coins.

:i_agree: That's why I bought a couple of RAM rolls of this year's Lest We Forget $2 coin. The bags were absolutely shocking, and not worth the money I paid for them. :(
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: kchan1111 on June 05, 2017, 05:06:46 PM
Quote from: 'Hercules' pid='109173' dateline='1496646427'
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='109172' dateline='1496644418'It is most disappointing to open multiple bags and not find one coin devoid of numerous scratches and scrapes. Yet I can open twenty year old rolls (or even security firm bags) with confidence of finding a number of unmarked coins.

:i_agree: That's why I bought a couple of RAM rolls of this year's Lest We Forget $2 coin. The bags were absolutely shocking, and not worth the money I paid for them. :(

It's absolutely worth the money you paid for them! At 1x face. :P
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: JeffH on June 05, 2017, 05:15:18 PM
Having seen how the RAM handles circulation strikes I am of the opinion that most of the damage to the coins their shop sells happens prior to being bagged or rolled. Obviously rolled coins are less likely to suffer further damage in handling and transit, but, overall, I assumed there would be little difference on delivery.
Please disabuse me if I am wrong. Evidence, and not supposition, would be nice -I have already done the supposition part.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Hercules on June 05, 2017, 07:04:58 PM
I don't want to open up my rolls yet, so it could be years until I know for sure whether my hypothesis is correct. However, the coins on the ends of the rolls don't have any scratches at all, which suggests to me that the bags are doing most of the damage.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: seedyrom on June 05, 2017, 07:26:29 PM
Heh :)
Not worth face value
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Hercules on June 05, 2017, 09:18:46 PM
I was including postage. It's not as if they post them for free, you know? :winkextra:
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: seedyrom on June 06, 2017, 05:36:48 AM
I'll admit I always try to maximise postage where possible, however generally I consider postage as just a cost of doing business which doesn't have bearing on the cost of the end product.

I understand that could be been as simplistic, however, if I can get something shipped from Canberra to my door in Sydney for $10 ... it's actually a saving in my eyes. My time is worth a lot more than that.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: kchan1111 on June 06, 2017, 06:32:40 AM
I bought 3x of each Mabo 50c, $2 ANZAC and $1 bags so $90 all up. The $10 postage is a modest premium above face.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: trout on June 06, 2017, 07:47:16 AM
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='109177' dateline='1496648718'Having seen how the RAM handles circulation strikes I am of the opinion that most of the damage to the coins their shop sells happens prior to being bagged or rolled. Obviously rolled coins are less likely to suffer further damage in handling and transit, but, overall, I assumed there would be little difference on delivery.
Please disabuse me if I am wrong. Evidence, and not supposition, would be nice -I have already done the supposition part.

I have opened recent RAM rolls and the coins are pretty much the same condition as the Bagged coins, I am certain that I posted images of the coins that disappointed me here somewhere.
You only have to compare the condition of our recent Mint set coins to those of past years to notice a steady decline in the quality of the coins in the sets, The rolls are NO different :ok:
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Hercules on June 06, 2017, 07:59:29 AM
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='109201' dateline='1496696560'I bought 3x of each Mabo 50c, $2 ANZAC and $1 bags so $90 all up. The $10 postage is a modest premium above face.

Lucky you. I bought each of them as soon as they came out, because I didn't know they were going to release any more. Thus, I ended up paying postage for each of them, when I could have bought them all at once. :(
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: kchan1111 on June 06, 2017, 08:46:05 AM
Quote from: 'Hercules' pid='109204' dateline='1496701769'
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='109201' dateline='1496696560'I bought 3x of each Mabo 50c, $2 ANZAC and $1 bags so $90 all up. The $10 postage is a modest premium above face.

Lucky you. I bought each of them as soon as they came out, because I didn't know they were going to release any more. Thus, I ended up paying postage for each of them, when I could have bought them all at once. :(

Yeah I think I got lucky. I waited a bit to accumulate a few items before placing the order at one go. So I am taking bit of a risk. They do run out temporarily after initial big rush. But usually more becomes available.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: seedyrom on June 20, 2017, 03:13:18 PM
Well ... all of mine were head and tails at each end of the rolls which was good.
At the end of the 50c roll , one coin had a scratch across the writing and a little gouge. There's no machining that gets done to them after pressing is there?
That's just an after the fact bit of damage isn't it?

(http://users.tpg.com.au/vtcalais/50c.JPG)
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Unicorn on June 20, 2017, 06:19:50 PM
Looks like the standard coin rolling machine damage to me CDR. Good work with the head/tail combo's!

Coin rollers and counters are my pet hate (which I've probably posted more than a few times).
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: robbiegal on June 20, 2017, 07:05:20 PM
good to see that you can still type with those doggie mauled fingers mate!
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Unicorn on June 20, 2017, 07:18:14 PM
:laugh2: .... on ya RG! .... Yes, but not at the usual speed and I keep having to press ! It's a great excuse to get out of the washing up ..... (but I still dry up :angel:) .... going through the latex gloves quicker than a pathology collector!
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Hercules on June 20, 2017, 07:22:37 PM
That's what it looks like to me as well - damage from a rolling machine. I see it all the time with the Armaguard rolls, and it still irks me. Fortunately, I never saw it on the Lest We Forget coins I bought earlier this year, so I think you're just a little bit unlucky.

I don't know whether you intend to break the rolls open and sell them individually, but if you do, I recommend selling the damaged coin on the end of the roll at a discount, because savvy collectors like myself won't pay full price for a damaged coin. However, the coins inside the roll should be in much better condition, and will still allow you to make a handsome profit. :winkextra:
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: trout on June 20, 2017, 07:26:19 PM
QuoteHowever, the coins inside the roll should be in much better condition, and will still allow you to make a handsome profit

From my recent experience with RAM rolls the coins inside the rolls will be "Sans" the rolling machine damage but will struggle to make better than MS65 due to the amount of "Bagging" on the coins.
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: runway on June 20, 2017, 07:44:35 PM
I have 2 50c Mabo rolls with typical coin roll damage unfortunately, the rolls were $35 ea not happy
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: Hercules on June 20, 2017, 08:50:45 PM
Thanks, Trout. That's what I meant. I consider rolling machine damage to be much worse than "bagging", so whenever I go noodling, I usually discard coins that have rolling machine damage, but keep those that have "bagging" marks. However, that's just my subjective opinion, and I realise that if you're after a particularly high grade, then all of the coins would probably fail to make the cut. Because I get most of my coins from noodling, I can't afford to be that fussy, so I try to find a balance between the two extremes. Ultimately, it depends on what condition Seedyrom is after - average uncirculated, choice uncirculated or gem. :ok:
Title: RE: Rolled Coin Set 2017
Post by: kchan1111 on June 20, 2017, 08:55:42 PM
Quote from: 'Hercules' pid='109503' dateline='1497952357'I don't know whether you intend to break the rolls open and sell them individually, but if you do, I recommend selling the damaged coin on the end of the roll at a discount, because savvy collectors like myself won't pay full price for a damaged coin. However, the coins inside the roll should be in much better condition, and will still allow you to make a handsome profit. :winkextra:

You can sell it as an error coin on eBay. :P