Australian-Coins Forum

Interesting read:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-27/is-australia-on-the-brink-of-becoming-cashless-society/8377288

Pedro

The crooks, thieves and tax dodgers will not put up with it and as most of them make the decisions in Canberra or make large donations in brown paper bags to the decision makers, this won't happen.:mafia:
My conspiracy theory
P.G.:laugh2:

Taking emotion and self-interest in numismatics out of the equation ... do you think this will affect the value of your coin collections?

I can't see it being a good thing. I know that the underlying currency will still be there, therefore an outdated currency token still has a face value. But as far as the intrinsic value, or even the "greater fool theory" will be reduced greatly.

Having future generations not knowing the importance of a coin or note, will be like me not understanding the value of a good quill after the ball-point pen was invented.

Same could be said for postage stamps since most letters I get are hand stamped or "Postage Paid Australia" struck

Its scares me to think of the prospects of a cashless society, I know from looking at trends cash is becoming something used less and less as the years go on and a cashless society would have the benefits of removing a fair bit of tax avoidance from your everyday Joe. The cost of producing said currency would also be a decent saving for the government aswell.  There are some precedents being set around the world at the moment, South Korea is phasing out all coins as of 2020 which I think we can all agree if that occurs in Australia our industry and the value of our collections would be decimated and Sweden has dreams to be the first fully cashless society. Whichever way you look its probably only a matter of time before the inevitable occurs

Australia is a LONG way from becoming a cashless society simply because we don't have the infrastructure in place.
There are immense areas in Aus that you can't even get a phone signal let alone a reliable internet connection to facilitate an online transaction.
I used to work in remote areas and cash is still KING because of the unreliability of the Telstra network.
I always carried $200-$300 in cash when I went away and on many occasions this has saved the day, Can you imagine 20 blokes fronting up to the bar at the end of the working day in 40C heat only to be told that the EFTPOS was down :angel:

Quote from: 'trout' pid='107230' dateline='1490747468'Can you imagine 20 blokes fronting up to the bar at the end of the working day in 40C heat only to be told that the EFTPOS was down :angel:

That scares me more :shok::beg:

Can buskers survive in a cashless society? (https://www.thememo.com/2015/12/04/can-buskers-survive-in-a-cashless-society/)
New app to help buskers earn money in 'cashless' society (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbkkiAGsLs4)
The mind boggles at the thought of buskers and beggars having to carry an EFTPOS machine.

Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='107234' dateline='1490750115'The mind boggles at the thought of buskers and beggars having to carry an EFTPOS machine.

Dogecoin is the answer!

A couple of years ago, waitresses started wearing T-shirts with their wallets on them. Sort of like this:

(https://whitethreads.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/brad-qr-shirt_new-2.jpg)

Super-simple to scan the QR code and send as much or as little to them as you would like. As long as there's a network available, of course. Though you could generate the transaction and send it later.

That could work. Reactionaries like me might have to obtain a device to enable such transactions -my experience with mobile phones has been downhill all the way since my original Motorola "brick" which actually worked really well. I weaned myself from these dodgy devices several years ago.

Regardless of Government backed currency there will always be a demand for a physical medium of exchange. Diamonds and other precious stones, rare metals or such. I foresee that, come the day, little silver ingots may be rather popular in various weights and purity. What an opening that will be for dodgy operators.

Before I finally caved in and got my first mobile flip phone in 2012, and still have it, I always carried phone change just in case. So I'm sure carrying a small amount of busker change wouldn't be a drama, the next day I might carry crumbs for the pigeons ;)

I guess it depends on whether people care more about convenience than privacy. If so, then cash is doomed. If not, then cash will be here forever.

---

I mean, imagine what it would have been like if Nazi Germany had had a cashless society. The death toll would have been much higher, because anyone who disagreed with the Nazis would have been banned from buying food, thereby starving to death. I really don't see how we can have a healthy democracy without allowing people to make transactions anonymously. :ok:

What happens when the lights go out?

When not if THE ELECTRICITY GRID FAILS HOW DO WE THEN

What happens when the lights go out?

When, not if, the electricity grid fails how do we then transact?

Buy way of trhe Australian Consitution:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s115.html

" COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 115
States not to coin money

                   A State shall not coin money, nor make anything but gold and silver coin a legal tender in payment of debts. "

So must we amend the Constitution for CASHLESS to to happen?

How is it possible that the Federal Govt prints fiat currency that/which no intrinsic value?

Again - what happens whn the lights go out!?

I believe that at some stage in the near future, the lights will go out!

Quote from: 'SULLA' pid='107279' dateline='1490862827'What happens when the lights go out?

When, not if, the electricity grid fails how do we then transact?

Buy way of trhe Australian Consitution:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s115.html

" COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 115
States not to coin money

                   A State shall not coin money, nor make anything but gold and silver coin a legal tender in payment of debts. "

So must we amend the Constitution for CASHLESS to to happen?

How is it possible that the Federal Govt prints fiat currency that/which no intrinsic value?

Again - what happens whn the lights go out!?

I believe that at some stage in the near future, the lights will go out!

Sulla you have combined your political stance with coin analogy which I don't see the point doing here on a coin forum ... just like the bitcoin mention here on another thread :idea:

Cash will be around for a while yet.
Pandemic sparks major jump in cash hoarding (https://todayspaper.smedia.com.au/smh/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=SMH%2F2021%2F03%2F24&entity=Ar03701&sk=97AAC040&mode=text)

The storms here in Sydney knocked the power out. Went to the butchers shop and they couldn't do electronic sales. CASH ONLY. I really enjoyed the snags I purchased as I like cash. Worse yet I see young people with their phones having electronic drivers licence, electronic train/bus ticket and touch and go payments methods, when their phone goes flat they have no money and no ID and no way of getting home.

I prefer gold and silver over cash but it is hard to buy a dozen sausages at the butcher with an ounce of gold. They would want to be damn fine sausages for an ounce of silver too.
Cash until then. But you want a supply of both for when the US economy implodes.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='124575' dateline='1616588176'I prefer gold and silver over cash but it is hard to buy a dozen sausages at the butcher with an ounce of gold. They would want to be damn fine sausages for an ounce of silver too.
Cash until then. But you want a supply of both for when the US economy implodes.

I have a policy of buying a few hundred ounces of pre decimal silver each year, also have a few ounces of gold squirreled away and keep a few thousand cash (mostly rolls of $2 coins) for when things go weird. With the US all the signs are inflation is about to go 1970s style (if we are lucky).

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='124579' dateline='1616653891'

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='124575' dateline='1616588176'I prefer gold and silver over cash but it is hard to buy a dozen sausages at the butcher with an ounce of gold. They would want to be damn fine sausages for an ounce of silver too.
Cash until then. But you want a supply of both for when the US economy implodes.

I have a policy of buying a few hundred ounces of pre decimal silver each year, also have a few ounces of gold squirreled away and keep a few thousand cash (mostly rolls of $2 coins) for when things go weird. With the US all the signs are inflation is about to go 1970s style (if we are lucky).

I am a big believer in keeping enough cash to cover at least three months worth of bills and preferably six months worth in case our banks do a Cyprus. We have the same damned bail in laws now, snuck through parliament in the dead of the night. The lesson, never keep more than you can afford to lose in the bank.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cyprus-banks-idUSKBN1K3242

I dropped into the bank to pick up some petty cash, 200$ in dollar coins please, for the occasional cash only little purchase, like the paper and cake shop.
11 year old teller (well they look that young) looks at me and says 'just a moment'  and goes to senior.
Both come back, "what do you want this for?"
Now I look at the 11 year old trainee and the 13 year old senior and and dead pan say "to buy things with".
Oh, says the 11 year old, "are you running a buisness?"
Now this conversation is bordering on the point of stupidity and I'm about to let her know its no buisness of hers as to what I want to do with money and to pull her finger out and get on with it, but get the warning look from Barbara and just say "yes its for the petty cash tin".
Satisified, 13YO goes back to doing whatever she was doing, 11YO counts out a bunch of bags of bucks I sign for them and job done.

Now note folks that is a sign of times to come.
1/ cash is dead.
2/ only 3 teller windows open, the rest sealed off not to be used.
3/ it wont be too long before that branch closes.
I can see in the not too far away future where there will be NO bank branches and all transactions will be over the web based, hole in the wall or coles and woolworths branches!
Pretty sad when you get queried like that in a branch you have been using for 30 years or so.

And yes I did check through the coins to see how many 2000/10c were there!
Nothing of value as usual.
There was one of those coins some kid had painted a blue circle on.Fred.

hi Fred, I get rolls and rolls of 2 dollar coins from the ATMs some branches have, machine never asks me why I want 20 rolls. That branch inside a shopping centre only has a single teller open but has 4 ATMs for cash including a coin roll dispenser and bulk coin deposit. How will we noodle once they stop making coins though. I'm surprised the mint still makes coins what with so many people never using cash.

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='125019' dateline='1624151099'hi Fred, I get rolls and rolls of 2 dollar coins from the ATMs some branches have, machine never asks me why I want 20 rolls. That branch inside a shopping centre only has a single teller open but has 4 ATMs for cash including a coin roll dispenser and bulk coin deposit. How will we noodle once they stop making coins though. I'm surprised the mint still makes coins what with so many people never using cash.

Drama's in our local CTB on Friday,only 2 Tellers operating and they only have 2 ATM's,inside the foyer now,a combination deposit machine,coins & notes,and the regulation cash dispenser.
Guy using the bulk coin deposit had the machine tied up and apologised to everyone waiting saying the Teller sent him here because of the long Teller queue,well there was a longer queue waiting on the machine,about 14 of us with a dozen or more waiting for the Tellers,absolutely ridiculous.

I've never seen an ATM that issues coins at all. Maybe they don't have them in Queensland. Then again, I don't use ATMs in general.

Will Age Pensioners be Forced onto the Cashless Debit Card?

There is also a lot of talk as to whether Ann Rushton a LNP Minister is laying the ground work for the INDUE CARD
where 80% of payment will have to be spent where the Gov says you can spent it.
No more noodling if this happens.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='125021' dateline='1624152338'I've never seen an ATM that issues coins at all. Maybe they don't have them in Queensland. Then again, I don't use ATMs in general.

They have them in Brisbane at least.
A couple of years before they came to Brisbane I think I saw them in Sydney.

Quote from: 'interest' pid='125024' dateline='1624159019'Will Age Pensioners be Forced onto the Cashless Debit Card?

There is also a lot of talk as to whether Ann Rushton a LNP Minister is laying the ground work for the INDUE CARD
where 80% of payment will have to be spent where the Gov says you can spent it.
No more noodling if this happens.

How will it work for those of us with homes overseas? My retirement home is in Egypt. Or what about those who take long overseas holidays or visit overseas family? I started paying income tax 43 years ago and I'll be buggered if some government wants to control my pension spending habits.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='124583' dateline='1616758876'

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='124579' dateline='1616653891'

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='124575' dateline='1616588176'I prefer gold and silver over cash but it is hard to buy a dozen sausages at the butcher with an ounce of gold. They would want to be damn fine sausages for an ounce of silver too.
Cash until then. But you want a supply of both for when the US economy implodes.

I have a policy of buying a few hundred ounces of pre decimal silver each year, also have a few ounces of gold squirreled away and keep a few thousand cash (mostly rolls of $2 coins) for when things go weird. With the US all the signs are inflation is about to go 1970s style (if we are lucky).

I am a big believer in keeping enough cash to cover at least three months worth of bills and preferably six months worth in case our banks do a Cyprus. We have the same damned bail in laws now, snuck through parliament in the dead of the night. The lesson, never keep more than you can afford to lose in the bank.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cyprus-banks-idUSKBN1K3242

My parents came to Australia from Russia after the 2nd world war in 1949. although they lived a combined total of 77 years in Australia they always kept a stash of gold coins. Once bitten twice shy...

It seems some stores are cashless already.
Went to pay a RACV bill today and told they don't accept cash and haven't for last 2 years.  
Lady said to pay at post office with cash or us a credit card or cheque.

Quote from: 'jens coin' pid='125932' dateline='1641363811'Went to pay a RACV bill today and told they don't accept cash and haven't for last 2 years.  

That's just sad ...

[quote="jens coins" pid='125932' dateline='1641363811']
It seems some stores are cashless already.
Went to pay a RACV bill today and told they don't accept cash and haven't for last 2 years.  
Lady said to pay at post office with cash or us a credit card or cheque.
[/quote]

Cheque??? Can't remember the last time I used one.

Pedro

I had a clean out recently and tossed a barely used cheque book. Most recent stub was three years old.

Betcha Jim Noble has plenty of cheques pinned on the wall.(rubber ones)...

Were they wet Jeff? (sorry, couldn't resist).

Love you my friend.

I use to tell people to cut the corners off their cheques.
That way, when they bounced they wouldn't poke my eye out. :)

Talking of cheques pinned on a wall.

Several years ago I went to a second hand place in North Melbourne looking to purchase a house safe.

On the wall behind the front counter was a check from Woolworths,  paying a supplier some $32,000,000.00.

I would hate to be the treasurer who failed to mail it off.

I have also seen early Minute Books of state board of directors for Woolworths at the same location.

I am sorry that this is in the wrong topic but the cheques story I had to tell.

Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='125940' dateline='1641447448'Were they wet Jeff? (sorry, couldn't resist).

Love you my friend.

You naughty boy you!!

NAB striding out with cashless initiative......New NAB policy riles customers (https://www.theage.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/new-online-banking-push-nab-limits-payments-customers-can-make-in-its-branches-20220221-p59y9a.html#comments)

Here is what the RBA advice about paying with cash is........Legal Tender, Transactions In Australian Currency (https://banknotes.rba.gov.au/legal/legal-tender/)

I don't have a credit card with my Bank, only a debit card. so I don't know what their terms and conditions are for paying into a credit card. Does anyone have the patience to go through the fine print on such a card and advise?
I do know my bank charges to withdraw cash over the counter but not from the ATM out the front. They don't charge for cash deposits into an account; ATM will do that too but not with coins.
I have never been charged for changing coins over the counter (yet). Say return $500 bag of $1 and take $500 in 50¢ and 20¢. I suspect that is only because their boffins have not woken up to that "non profit" transaction.

This is where the problem lies.

refusal to accept payment in legal tender banknotes and coins is not unlawful.

It should be unlawful to refuse legal tender with in its restrictions. Refusing legal tender undermines the integrity of the currency. BECAUSE all currency is worthless apart from the promise of value. Refuse the promise and soon enough people start refusing to accept that form of payment, undermining the economy.

The only problems with a law to make it illegal to refuse legal tender is when price isn't in AUD. For example if I buy something priced in USD, Euro or other currency the seller expects payment in that currency. Then what if price isn't in current money but in goods or old money or Bitcoin or services? For example I've seen a pub have a promotion selling beers in old money (maybe a florin for a schooner), can a patron demand to pay the florins equivalent (20 cents) and thus refuse legal tender?

NAB backflip over credit card cash ban (https://todayspaper.smedia.com.au/theage/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=AGE%2F2022%2F03%2F01&entity=Ar01701&sk=F3CFFA52&mode=text)

Of course, if you do a backflip then you end up still facing the same way. Should be "backflip with half twist"!

Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='107236' dateline='1490755541'

Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='107234' dateline='1490750115'The mind boggles at the thought of buskers and beggars having to carry an EFTPOS machine.

Dogecoin is the answer!

I wish I'd listened to you

FREE MONEY FOR FIRST ADOPTERS (https://todayspaper.smedia.com.au/smh/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=SMH%2F2022%2F03%2F12&entity=Ar04205&sk=E929C79E&mode=text)

Technical glitches... not off to a great start then.

Um yer, this did not age well.

On the subject of cash no longer being used I dropped into the local Com Branch to pick up some cash coins and was greeted with a big sign that said "Toongabbie branch is permanently closing" as of Friday Sep 2022!
Well there you go.  
But do not worry folks, as the local post office and Woolworths will take up the slack and provide all the banking services you need.....................
Of late the branch has been working with 1 teller  and a 1 staff (to keep unjamming the cash deposit and withdrawal machines) plus a few rotating staff to handle loans complaints ect.
The Branch structure was broken up years ago as the foot traffic plummeted and transactions done on line.
Like i keep saying I have no idea why the government keeps minting coin.
The only time I use coin in Toongabbie is for the morning paper and the bread shop, all other transactions are by card.
I still see coin with dates from the 60's and 70's, they just do not wear out.
Cash is dead.
The Mint is just producing tokens.
Fred.

I kept saying the only shop in Toongabbie holding out as "cash only" was the bread shop.
Well that had to end and now it has.
The cash only sign has gone replaced by "Eftpos 50 cent"!
Had to happen, they have no easy way of getting coin cash to float the till.
Nearest bank is one suburb away any direction.
That means a trip for one staff member.
Dont go to the APO or Woolies for $100 of mixed coin denominations!
Looks like picking up the paper and a loaf of bread in the morning is finished.
Just to go to Woolies?, oh dear stale bread and no paper.
Alternative is to order paper and buy up big at the bread shop and use card, problem solved.
Life is changing, for the better?

Fred.

Are you saying the bread shop no longer accepts cash? Surely the sign just means that they now also accept card as well as cash.
I refuse to patronize any shop that is card only.
Toongabbie is only a few stops from Blacktown, Merrylands, Fairfield and Parramatta so wherever direction the baker travels to/from work he passes a coin roll dispensing ATM and can pick up a decent quantity of coin for days/weeks/months of float change (I keep a years supply of change stashed away for noodling and have used those suburbs machines).

Hi Neal, cash is ok there, we bought a tea cake this morning and the paper next door at the paper shop.
Both shops however are e-pos as the main pay system.
The paper shop has to be, with all the gambling stuff going on, the main income for the shop.
While we were there, 10 minutes, we were the only cash customers, some just flashed their card most their phone.
I found a $10 note in my wallet, paid both with that.
Would I put the pay "app" on my phone?
NO WAY.
After seeing how easy it is to hack phones, computors and banks, one has to minimise ones exposure in the jungle.
Any way to improve ones odds in the big roulette game going on.
Thats ID stealing.
Having had my ID stolen and a bank account emptied I just don't use anything except the bank debit card, for purchases and B-Pay for on line.
Eyes open everybody, its a different world from the 1980's.
Fred.

"MONEY" Get back..I'm alright Jack. Keep yer hands off my stack. Grab that CASH with both hands and make a stash...

Quote from: 'fred lever' pid='127705' dateline='1674811740'After seeing how easy it is to hack phones, computors and banks, one has to minimise ones exposure in the jungle.
Any way to improve ones odds in the big roulette game going on.
Fred.

Fred, you could always open a separate account. I have one that I use for the occasional internet purchase. Normally it has a zero balance. I only put money in when I want to buy something specific.
They can't take money if it has none.

Hi Gweid, yes done, it's a pain but my exposure to improper use of my bank accounts in now negligible.
The problem is, if your ID is stolen to the point where passwords can be defeated, then, the bank will take no responsibility for anything that happens.
The hackers can re-set limits, shift money from account to account and then outwards to destination unknown.
Your account be emptied within several hours and trust me the Bank can/will do nothing about it even if you contact them while it is happening.
They just fall back on the line that if correct passwords are being used it must be you operating the account, tough tits and see you later.
Why? Because they are all in a huge loss situation with millions stripped from accounts and many angry people.
I'm not going to elaborate as that bank has paid the price.
Fred.

I have to say that is the only thing I love about Scumcorp. To make internet banking transactions requires a one time letter pad token that generates a unique 6 digit number every 30 seconds. You need it to log on, you can't just log on with a password, and you need it to make big transfers. It is good for about 5 years and they let you know when you need to order a new one (hopefully before it dies).
Apparently you can do it with a mobile phone app but as I have no mobile, that is out.

Went to local Westpac branch yesterday and teller told me they were closing in May.
Our closest bank will now be over an hours drive. We are in a large regional town so who knows when the next lot of banks will close.
They said to do all your banking at post office but when I asked at the post office you have to pay a fee to get the post office to order coins / notes in for you.

Quote from: 'jens coins' pid='127742' dateline='1675730385'Went to local Westpac branch yesterday and teller told me they were closing in May.
Our closest bank will now be over an hours drive. We are in a large regional town so who knows when the next lot of banks will close.
They said to do all your banking at post office but when I asked at the post office you have to pay a fee to get the post office to order coins / notes in for you.

Yes,shocking,ANZ customers will worse off with the closures,they're not included in the deal the othe 3 did with Aust. Post to do their Banking.

Can you REALLY do all your banking at a post office? Can the girl behind the counter at your local post office handle international transfers and all the specifics involved? I send money regularly to Egypt and there is lots of regulations involved. Proof of ID, declaration of why money is transferred, declaration of source of money and specifics of the overseas account. Even most typical bank employees don't know the difference between SWIFT and MIR in transfers or if our banks can do MIR transfers.

Neal, wait until the APO starts closing the PO branches down!!!
People would think that is inconceivable, but the thought of Banks closing bank branches was inconceivable 10 years ago!
Its Big Business trying to maximise profit and to hell with the customer.
Much more efficient to do things online by computer and get rid of all those pesky customers that just cause trouble and use up resources.

Fred.

Fred,
Two out of the three bank branches here closed more than ten years ago. Westpac sold the premises and franchised an
"in-store branch" to the new tenant, a real estate agent. The "in-store branches", all over the country, were cancelled seven years ago.

The CBA is the sole remaining bank branch here and a few months ago trading hours were substantiall slashed;
Opening hours
Monday 9:30am - 1:00pm
Tuesday 9:30am - 1:00pm
Wednesday 9:30am - 1:00pm
Thursday 9:30am - 1:00pm
Friday 9:30am - 1:00pm

I think only a matter of time before full closure.

Yes Fred, they will do away with many post offices. News yesterday is that the management at Arsetralia Post are calling the losses on handling letters unsustainable. They want to stop that part of their operations and only handle packages. It will likely go to those mail lockers to pick up your package (you will get an access code sent to your phone) and there might be no posties in many/most areas. Stamp collecting will be dead to future generations(as will be coin collecting).
So come Christmas granny will need to send digital Christmas cards and digital cash in those cards.
As for cash the one area it still reigns supreme is pokie machines. I handle a few hundred thousand each night clearing out the machines and that happens in thousands of pubs and clubs every day. Wouldn't surprise me if that is a billion/day in mostly 50s and 100s. The government wants to go to a card system and if that happens the war on cash will be easy for them as that just leaves the black economy and drugs as cash using enterprises. then the screaming Karens will support the introduction of Prohibition (of cash, not booze) For The Children.

To easy paying for items today without cash. I remember waiting outside the Commonwealth bank at Blacktown with my mum and 20 other people to withdraw cash for shopping..

Like clockwork
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/banking/towns-fury-at-disgraceful-westpac-move/news-story/dc5fb42254b02190c16ec54cabc0b276

Banks don't want customers in their banks any more.   It costs them money for consierges, tellers etc.

Cheaper for them to have customers doing business on line.

The dollars save will increase their massive already high profits.

Maybe people should start putting ones monies under their mattress instead.

CBA makes a five billion dollar profit in six months..They didn't say at customers expense,sacked workers or bank closures...

I agree with Goldie. We should all pull our money out and see what happens then.
They seem to forget they are making money with our funds.

Banking system in Oz. is a joke,should be a 'super' Tax on them.

The CTB kept the other Banks honest but Keating's privatisation fixed that,they now work together.

Same scenario with the NRMA in NSW, they kept the Insurance Co.'s,mainly London based,honest but that's gone now as well.

Citizen's party is advocating for a national bank like the Commonwealth used to be.

NRMA is now part of IAG along with quite a few other "brands". Scroll down to the bottom to see their stable mates.
Insurance Australia Group Limited (IAG) -ABOUT US (https://www.iag.com.au/about-us)

Does anyone remember the old GIO (Government Insurance Office). The name tells you who originally owned it and they kept the others honest.
About GIO (https://www.gio.com.au/about-us.html)

I dropped into the APO "bank" at Toongabbie and asked for $200 worth of $2 coins please.
I explained that normally I would get this from the Combank on the corner.
But  they have gone out of buisness and closed down and the advice from them was the APO could handle all types of banking.
The ever-cheerful staff there called a senior to handle this massive request.
A cash box was produced that had 1 x Armagard  $50 bag.
Oh, says the obliging young man, I have some more "out the back"
Comes out with 3 x $50 bags, cleaned him out!
Customer leaves satisfied, "Bank" will have to order more in, hope nobody else wants $2 for a couple of days!!
It's a brave new world folks.

Fred.

Received a message tonight to say Westpac will not be closing our local branch now.
Our local MP tabled it in Parliament last week so obviously had a good result.
Our local Bendigo bank is booked out for 2 weeks in advance for new customers opening accounts and transferring to them.

I saw something on TV where Westpac was closing a branch in Cloncurry or someplace like that and the next nearest bank is over 100 kms away. I see that has been put on hold too.

https://www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au/story/8088162/westpac-postponing-bank-closures/

Hi Fred. $200 in $2 coins is a pitiful amount. I know Toongabbie, at least 50 small shops and a couple of larger ones. Plus if you add Pendle Hill (I'm eating a steak as I type from Pendle Hill meat market) that makes a few hundred shops, mechanics, pubs, petrol stations etc in the area that could run low on change and any one of them could clear that post office out of change. If the post office is cleared out of change by the banks clients and then the post office cannot make change for those sending parcels etc then the post master will soon get peeved off at being a pretend bank. Plus a bank needs a float of tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars and/or get multiple large deposits. Do post offices have the necessary security like pop up screens and a decent safe as bank branches have? Will the low life scum see isolated post offices as easy marks for hold ups or break ins?
And the response will be to restrict the size of cash deposits and withdrawals. Having worked in a petrol station many moons ago I know that a single service station can deposit 25 grand every time they go to the bank. Pubs can do multiples of that daily and what the heck will they do in places like Cloncurry if the post office won't take large deposits and someone from the pub has to drive 100 plus miles round trip carrying a half million or more in unmarked notes?
Or are the problems I mentioned a feature and not a bug of what they are doing? The intent to pressure retailers, pubs, service stations etc to go the cashless route?

Hi Neal, that PO looks like a target to me!
The only thing going for it is, it is within the shopping centre and so will be part of the centre security like the supermarket is.
The secure guys do react pretty fast, I have seen.
Also going for it is any scum would have to fight though the customers and merchandise as well.
But no, just like the supermarket if anybody was desperate enough, they will just belt the customers aside leap the counter and grab what they can.
Just like any servo robbery.
They wont be keeping much dough in there for sure.
The local servo, by my observation, line of five customers,  does zero cash transactions all including me just used card.
Checking with a couple of main street shops reveals that all use cash machines "somewhere else"  to get float money if required.
They rarely deposit because the flow of cash is that low.
Hence no more shops being cash only.
Most customers use their card like I do or wave their phone over the POS, like I do not.
Had to happen, on line Apps  do the book keeping for them.
Accountant's get direct data to do tax, cash is just a pest.
The glass shop has closed up by the way, probably lack of customers.
It is a changing world.
Back about 50 years ago old Franky Bell at the local garage used to keep a big roll of cash in his overall pocket.
When the petrol delivery came he would peel off $500 or $1000 or so in 10's and hand it to the truck driver.
Imagine that today! Except it would be $10,000. Frank never had a moments thought of robbery, x services type tough as nails.
Like my favourite coin dealer back then at Paramatta.
Anybody my age will remember "North Shore Coins" next to the dirty book shop.
There was a broken short barrel shotgun in plain sight behind the counter.
Imagine that now!!
Never had any problem there either, the gun could be deployed withing seconds and was loaded with two bird shot cartridges.
Don't kill them, just wing them!
I used to see thousands of dollars cash money pass through the store with gold and silver buyers/sellers shifting currency according to country metal rates.
Into the shop with wads of $100 wrapped notes, fill pockets with gold, fly out from Mascot that morning to ?????.
Ah the old days........
Sorry, got carried away then....
Fred.

Yes, these days so many go for the "convenience" of using their cards or worse yet their phones. Working pub security I regularly have to turn away youngsters who go to show their drivers licence on their phone only they find their phone has gone flat, they don't carry the actual licence on them. And I find misplaced phones regularly (2 so far this week) that customers lose. No phone means no ID, no access to any money, no Uber ride home and the worry that someone is tap and go using their phone.
When I worked in service stations (graveyard shift) I was never held up, but the shift before me was. The next servo up Parramatta Rd had the Greek lady who owned it shot dead as she was heading to the bank.
Wish we could carry at work, carrying 6 figures every night keeps you looking 360 degrees for anyone who might want to grab the loot and run.

My first real job was with a bank in Brisbane city. We used to pay one of the big corporate's staff next door each fortnight but one fortnight their cheque machine broke so they wanted a bit over a million in cash. This was 1980 and we didn't have that much so the manager just wrote out some warrants and sent two tellers and me off to other major city banks. I went to the ANZ on Queen and Creek and picked up $360,000 in a bank bag by myself as a new 18 year old batch clerk and walked it back to my branch by myself, no support. Ah the good old days.

When I was a kid my dad worked for the Sydney water board and received his wages every fortnight. He would come home a bit late on payday and take off his boots that were stuffed with five pound notes..

Growing up in Werris Creek I remember the railway pay bus would arrive at the station every second Wednesday. Not sure if they actually had cash on board, probably did, then a paymaster and one other (may have been security) would walk across the street to the Commercial Bank maybe to top up, and then saunter back without a care in the world. There was a huge workforce at the Creek in those days, so the amount of cash would have been considerable.

Reading Freds earlier posts brought back memories of living for a while in the early seventies at Pendle Hill with my sister and her family. Freds Toongabbie was the next suburb and remember frequenting the local car wrecker there (may have been Seven Hills) while scavenging parts for my old holden. It was just a 15 minute run / walk, via a short cut through paddocks and follow a creek, then jump a fence and cross the road into the wreckers. Then home the same way carrying my bits.

I remember a Fred Lever from Toonie who lived round Grantham/Seven Hills road and went to Mitchell high in the 60tees..

My God! Not another Fred Lever!
Sadly, not me Stan. Went to high school at  Cleveland St in Sydney, but not for long, had to find a job or starve.
Auto, yes there were a bunch of wreckers between Parramatta and Blacktown.
Working all over Sydney I  found heaps of wreckers every where.
Whatever piece of rubbish I was driving needed a good supply of spares, if you could not find those in dumped cars by the side of the road.
There was  the big one at Blacktown, last time I went there was when I had a Camira, the yard had better ones junked,  than I was driving!
Those days are gone, the local wreckers are all gone now and I'm too old to crawl under cars.

I was still being payed cash money in the 80's and I put a lot of running sequence "unc with fold"  notes away from those pay packets.
After a nasty robbery the main joint I was working for  went to bank transfer, no cash money from Armagard any more.
Four hoods drove car right up to the front door of the office in a Valiant V8, burst in waving knives, grabbed the receptionist by the throat with a knife, screaming where's the dough (Armagard had just left) Accountant came running to see what the noise was, punches, give us the dough or she gets it, thrown the delivery bag, and gone in less than a minute.
Poor girl left work, never came back. Boss got every body together next day, from now on we go cashless. Union put on a blue of course, how can we trust bosses we want cash or strike.
 Had to take the union organiser out the back and set him straight. I knew the office girls very well and it even affected me.
Other places paid me with cheques, so from about 1990 i used cash very little, one of the first to use the internet to do money transfers or mail cheques, no cash.
That was about the same time as the beginning of on line selling and dial up internet that turned into eBay, Oztion etc.

Different days indeed.
Fred.

Some ANZ branches no longer have cash over the counter.
I am glad I don't bank with ANZ.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/banking/major-australian-bank-quietly-stops-handling-cash-at-some-branches/news-story/1eda8600723b60c1567828eb8f72186d

Gone are the days of the yellow pay packet with fresh crisp banknotes. Not happy with my Suncorp branch as there deposit machine has been (out of order) on three occasions where I had to line up with 11 people waiting for one teller. Gone are the days of 12 teller banks. Try withdrawing $5000.00 dollars and they look at you like your a Terrorist from ISIS..

Less than impressed with Scumcorp. They closed our local branch so now I go to Cannon Hill or Capalaba. Capalaba is the WORST Scumcorp branch in existence. The disdain for customers is palpable. That was the branch they should have closed. I put in a formal complaint after waiting half an hour with only one teller working.
They don't want customers to come to branches, they have to work. I've had financial dealings with Scumcorp for 30 years, they are cheap to deal with, but that is the only advantage.
I'm seriously considering changing to Bendigo Bank.

ANZ probably testing the waters - they might get away with it in the city but it'll probably push rural people to the smaller banks.

The CBA at Victoria Point closed a couple of weeks back, now all boarded up, not even a hole in the wall.

That seems crazy, there is always a lot of traffic at Vic Point. Why would they close that branch? So what is the next nearest CBA from there?

I received an email/notification from my local ANZ Bank located at Brimbank Central Shopping Cenrtre that the tellers will no longer count loose coin, process cash deposits or withdrawals but customers can use the hole in the wall for these transactions.
If this is case, I have a message for the branch - GOODBYE.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='128002' dateline='1680445269'That seems crazy, there is always a lot of traffic at Vic Point. Why would they close that branch? So what is the next nearest CBA from there?

Cleveland and Capalaba, I think. There was a hole in the wall just up the road at Redland Bay, but it went years ago.

Luckily we are not cashless yet. Drove up to Queensland Friday night, Saturday morning went to Bunnings to get timber for a renovation. Card declined. Blasted HSBC had flagged a payment to Status International as suspicious and blocked the card (and cancelled it). So here is me in another state, needing a few hundred for hardware, more to live on away from home and needing to fuel my car to get back on Monday.
But carirying $2500 emergency cash for the trip saved me. Now off to the bank tomorrow to organise a replacement card (days+ till that comes and is activated), and off to Status to pay cash for the payment. Then off to St George to put more cash in that account as I need to transfer my Linkt account to pay the Brisbane tolls. Plus more to cover 2 eBay purchases that I would have paid out of all the funds stuck in HSBC. And then another few grand payment to an investment property.
And it's only because I keep cash in various places and maintain accounts with multiple banks that stops me being in a mess. Meanwhile I know of many young people that maintain one account, pay everything by card (assuming that they know where the card is as they uploaded it to their phone) and wouldn't have more than a few dollars change in their sock drawer. When things get stuffed those people will learn why you need CASH put aside to cover a months expenses

Well done Neal!
Yes guys, always keep some cash notes in the wallet.
$50 and $100 notes don't take up much room.
Cash is still legal tender in this country and for a  decent amount like a fuel bill at a servo they have to accept.
Of course, a $100 note for a $5 pie or a bus fare would be a bit rude.
Neal mentions the other horror, young trendy people conned into  using their phone or watch to do all transactions.
The least secure device in this world are things like phones and tablets working from the clouds.
You may as well just broadcast you PIN  and access numbers to all comers.
The banks have the hide to promote this nonsense in "banking" ads.
When the hackers deplete your bank account by infiltrating you phone or tablet, the banks will do ZERO to reclaim the money.
Personal experience there.
Keep cash in reserve like Neal.

Fred.

I've been using cash a bit more lately because I'm sick of the card fees.

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='128288' dateline='1686821491'I've been using cash a bit more lately because I'm sick of the card fees.

There are card fees? Thank god I don't use cards.

I dropped into the Toongabbie  "Combank" that is the Post Office at Toongabbie.
Asked the guy behind the counter for some $2  coins.
We don't have any cash except for what's in the till he says.
Great i says give a couple of hundred bucks worth.
Um, we will have to order that in he says.
(that is the Prosegur truck that occupies the Disabled parking spot in the street outside the shopping centre).
Great I says I'll drop in on Monday and pick that up.

In the meantime the CBA web site shows the location of the Toongabbie Branch is at the corner of this and that street which happens to be the empty building they used to be in.
As well as that, the site map shows another Toongabbie Branch halfway alone the main St. that happens to be a building site at the moment!

I then rang them up via the main number and after 40 minutes was connected to an operator.
That did not end well as the "operator" spoke some form of English that both myself and my wife could not understand.
I requested she passes me onto her supervisor or another operator and i was told that would not make any difference and to go to a branch!
The tape will be a wonderful training asset as I gave her a right old earful before terminating the call.

Folks the Commonwealth Bank is in total disarray.
On Monday I will check out the locations on their site map and see if they have any actual bricks and mortar branches nearby.

Fred.

I have a card with no fees. But woe betide anyone, with one of those, who doesn't pay the balance in full each month. I have it for use in Fiji as it gives Mastercard exchange rate (good) with no foreign transaction fees. That is 7% better than the best price buying cash from an exchange dealer.

"Rates and fees
$0 annual fee
$0 international transaction fees on purchases
$0 currency conversion fees on purchases
0% p.a.
up to 55 days interest free on purchases#
22.99% p.a. interest rate on purchases and cash advances [No interest on purchases if you pay in full by statement due date.]
$1,000 minimum credit limit
Cash advance fee 3% of the cash advance or $4 (whichever is greater).
Payment handling fee $3.95 (in person), $0.95 (online).
You can avoid this fee by making your payments via mail, direct debit or via the Online Service Centre.
Paper statements $2.50
Late fee $35"

OK, 'fess up, who has my 18 $100 notes? I don't have any.
While our use of cash has nose-dived, the amount of cash in circulation is near record levels. There are 18 $100 notes for every Australian in the country, compared with about 14 in 2016. (https://todayspaper.smedia.com.au/smh/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=SMH%2F2023%2F06%2F17&entity=Ar02204&sk=15C06D9D&mode=text)

Not me. The only $100 notes I see is when I do the banking at work.
Even then I don't see many, most $50 notes.

Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='128298' dateline='1686951766'OK, 'fess up, who has my 18 $100 notes? I don't have any. (https://todayspaper.smedia.com.au/smh/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=SMH%2F2023%2F06%2F17&entity=Ar02204&sk=15C06D9D&mode=text)

That would probably be me. We get at least 7 each fortnight out of the bank and hold them for major purchases. Definitely got more than  18 each for the three of us. Probably more than three times that many. Haven't counted lately. My wife will be taking 40 with her next weekend when she is off to the NT for a two week holiday.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='128292' dateline='1686901052'

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='128288' dateline='1686821491'I've been using cash a bit more lately because I'm sick of the card fees.

There are card fees? Thank god I don't use cards.

Yeah lots of small businesses charge extra for card transactions.

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='128301' dateline='1687082955'

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='128292' dateline='1686901052'

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='128288' dateline='1686821491'I've been using cash a bit more lately because I'm sick of the card fees.

There are card fees? Thank god I don't use cards.

Yeah lots of small businesses charge extra for card transactions.

Maybe that is why they thank me when I pay cash.

Re the CON Bank outlets in Sydney NSW.
Looks like there are legacy location map sites on the net that CON bank does not have the ability or wit to remove.
There are maps that show branches all over the joint that are now holes in the ground.

Found the Blacktown CON bank has GONE and nearest to me is Seven Hills.
Got served there very quickly by going in off rush time 10 o'clock.
This branch is just like a hole in the wall with a row of cash machines like poker machines and 2 teller holes at the back.
There is a cash out limit of $100 for  ordinary punters but no limit for Business accounts.
I got a couple of Armguard rolls of $2  to top up my paper money.

Guess they want you to do all business online.
I had to update some accounts to link to a mobile phone as any poking of accounts now needs a 2 step verification, not just log in by ID and password and update.

I also guess that all country branches will go to the same format, a row of poker machines and a teller if you are lucky.
Fred.

Sorry Jeff, I have all your $100 notes. My wife is taking a wad of them when she flies off to Cairo in 6 weeks. My older son is also going but he takes his cards. Very convenient until the card machine doesn't work, or the powers off or the internet goes down. Have had all 3 happen at one time or another for periods of up to a week.
Might even get more interesting as Russia has been paying particular attention to the undersea cable network as possible payback for Bidens role in sabotaging Nordstream. Those cables carry 99% of international internet. Wonder how a cashless society functions with no internet?
Fred, I hope you took every single coin that the fake Commbank branch (post office) had just to teach them to keep a decent float.

[quote="nealeffendi" pid='128304' dateline='1687161116']
Sorry Jeff, I have all your $100 notes.
[/quote]

That's fine. I will only charge nomimal interest fot the loan; as long as you don't delay repaying too long!

Fred,
The row of machines have already hit the country. Sometime the ones in the Mudgee "Penny Arcade" even work.

I like this letter to the editor in today's The Age.
"Note the logic
If some people want to rely solely on digital financial transactions, let them. But don't take away cash for the rest of us. My $50 note can't be hacked. If I'm robbed, I lose $50, not my entire life savings. If my $50 note is accidentally immersed in water, it still works. My $50 note doesn't need batteries, it can't be ''out of range'' and it won't break if it's dropped. If the system is down, I can still use my note. My $50 note can be put into a charity box or given to a homeless person.
Sure I use a card sometimes for large purchases, but for everything else please leave me the option of cash. It simplifies life.
Julie Christensen,
Blackburn North"

One good thing about those poker machines Fred, they pay out every time. :)

I can see the government not necessarily doing away with all cash, but following in India's footsteps where the highest denomination you'll be able to get and use will be ten dollars.

There is a practical there here.
Does the constitution demand that a note printing and coin making apparatus, (the NPA and the Mint ) must be provided?
If they have to be there what are they going to do?
Other countries have legislation to insist that coin and note are available, for various reasons.
We can see already that the Mint makes mainly shirt buttons some with dabs of paint.
The Note people print money seemingly for the exclusive use of drug runners.
If India is looking at a $10 monetary  limit that makes sense to me.
Costs of electronic payment on small exchanges make it sensible to keep  amounts under $10 as cash  transactions.
It all looks very complex to me in the legal sense from the constitution down.
I'm clueless if any moves have been made to change the federal and state laws or the constitution?
Fred.

Our constitution doesn't work that way - not much is mandated.

51. Legislative powers of the Parliament
The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power12 to make laws for the peace, order, and good
government of the Commonwealth with respect to:
(xii) currency, coinage, and legal tender;

115. States not to coin money
A State shall not coin money, nor make anything but gold and silver coin a legal tender in payment of debts

Thanks Mr T.
Fascinating.
I can see that laws exist to define what the currency  shall be and what is not allowed.
Thats clear.
Is there a definition of what coinage or minimum amount shall be made?
Fred.

I doubt it but not sure where it would say that. Was the Reserve Bank enacted by an act of parliament? Maybe there are details there (I think they determine how much is made?).

Mr T is 115 about only gold and silver coin only in payment of debts then how have they breeched the constitution these past many decades with no gold or silver in circulation?
Has there been a referendum to amend that part of the constitution and if not can I demand my tax refund in gold coin at face value?

Unfortunately it is only "the states" who aren't allowed to coin money out of anything apart from gold and silver under the constitution.
The Federal government is a law unto itself.

Appended from  https://constitutionalfurphies.info/legal_tender.php

In Australia the Commonwealth Parliament has a long list of powers in section 51, and that includes:

    (xii) currency, coinage, and legal tender;
    (xiii) banking, other than State banking; also State banking extending beyond the limits of the State concerned, the incorporation of banks, and the issue of paper money; and
    (xvi) bills of exchange and promissory notes;

And all I can say is you mongrels voted for them.

If they wanted to they could make piggies legal tender. In much the same way as a cheque could be "anything" as long as the stamp duty was duly paid.

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='128339' dateline='1687775159'Mr T is 115 about only gold and silver coin only in payment of debts then how have they breeched the constitution these past many decades with no gold or silver in circulation?
Has there been a referendum to amend that part of the constitution and if not can I demand my tax refund in gold coin at face value?

My read on it is that the federal government can do what they want with regards to money, but if any of the individual states want to do their own thing then they can only do it using gold or silver coins. I assume this was to prevent states from issuing token/worthless coinages to the detriment of the other states'/whole country's economy.

I don't play the pokies at all but I'll feed a note through to look at dollar coins if I can.
I was at a country pub today and was disappointed to see that even they have switched to payouts being done on magnetic cards.

Are coin-dispensing poker machines completely dead?

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='128451' dateline='1691827645'I don't play the pokies at all but I'll feed a note through to look at dollar coins if I can.
I was at a country pub today and was disappointed to see that even they have switched to payouts being done on magnetic cards.

Are coin-dispensing poker machines completely dead?

Few and far between these days. Often it is a card or ticket. If you get a ticket they should have a machine that will give you cash and/or coins. We still have those at the local leagues club (and the casino) at least at this stage. Probably soon to be replaced to cashless.

Till last month I worked in the pokie room of a pub. Of 30 machines maybe 3 still took dollar coins and almost nobody played coins, perhaps 20-30 dollar coins each week from perhaps 2-3 million in notes.
That large amount of cash will cease within about 2 years as the word was the government wants the machines to be cashless with each player having their own pre loaded card. Their claim is that it will stop those who have self excluded for gambling addiction from playing as well as to prevent money laundering.
Staff will hate it as currently they often get nice tips from winning punters. And any gambling addict will get around it by borrowing others cards.

Ah that's right, there is meant to be some federal gambling limit thing - I guess the poker machine industry was ahead of the curve on this one.

Shame though.

I popped into the local post office and asked the counter girl for a couple of bags of $2 coins please.
I think she was about 10 years old, or at least that's what it liked like to me.
She could not get it in her head that I wanted to take some coin OUT from the till and pay for it with my card.
She even did not seem to really know what coin was.
The senior lady rattled off an explanation in Chinese and finally she got the idea.
Folks that is where we are heading, to the now generation you pay for things by waving your phone over the POS, coins and even cards don't exist.
Old people (I'm only 79!) need to get with it...NOT.
It's not just a cashless society it a brainless society!
Fred.

Hi Fred, I get rolls of $2 coins from a machine in St George in Parramatta Westfield, ditto in Blacktown. Sometimes they have rolls of newly minted coins and then I just get lots of rolls, enough that my sturdy backpack can barely take it.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='124583' dateline='1616758876'I am a big believer in keeping enough cash to cover at least three months worth of bills and preferably six months worth in case our banks do a Cyprus. We have the same damned bail in laws now, snuck through parliament in the dead of the night. The lesson, never keep more than you can afford to lose in the bank.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cyprus-banks-idUSKBN1K3242

What does this mean?

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='125019' dateline='1624151099'hi Fred, I get rolls and rolls of 2 dollar coins from the ATMs some branches have, machine never asks me why I want 20 rolls. That branch inside a shopping centre only has a single teller open but has 4 ATMs for cash including a coin roll dispenser and bulk coin deposit. How will we noodle once they stop making coins though. I'm surprised the mint still makes coins what with so many people never using cash.

What do these look like? How can I find out where they are in SA?

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='125027' dateline='1624164758'

Quote from: 'interest' pid='125024' dateline='1624159019'Will Age Pensioners be Forced onto the Cashless Debit Card?

There is also a lot of talk as to whether Ann Rushton a LNP Minister is laying the ground work for the INDUE CARD
where 80% of payment will have to be spent where the Gov says you can spent it.
No more noodling if this happens.

and I'll be buggered if some government wants to control my pension spending habits.

Damn straight. I'll not be obeying or complying with that bullshit. 

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='126091' dateline='1645864474'This is where the problem lies.

refusal to accept payment in legal tender banknotes and coins is not unlawful.

It should be unlawful to refuse legal tender with in its restrictions. Refusing legal tender undermines the integrity of the currency. BECAUSE all currency is worthless apart from the promise of value. Refuse the promise and soon enough people start refusing to accept that form of payment, undermining the economy.

So why are we using currency at all? I have begrudgingly used it. Because if I was alive and on Jekyll Island at the moment the modern currency system was put in place I would never have allowed it.

I've thought of this probability for a while now. If banks won't accept the currency that a society uses then what do we need them for? They'll become obsolete and we'll go back to bartering or come up with a different form of trade.

Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='126113' dateline='1647029239'FREE MONEY FOR FIRST ADOPTERS (https://todayspaper.smedia.com.au/smh/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=SMH%2F2022%2F03%2F12&entity=Ar04205&sk=E929C79E&mode=text)

Bribes... yea nah that's not going to work.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='127718' dateline='1674968032'I have to say that is the only thing I love about Scumcorp. To make internet banking transactions requires a one time letter pad token that generates a unique 6 digit number every 30 seconds. You need it to log on, you can't just log on with a password, and you need it to make big transfers. It is good for about 5 years and they let you know when you need to order a new one (hopefully before it dies).
Apparently you can do it with a mobile phone app but as I have no mobile, that is out.

What is this Scumcorp and how many branches do they have?

Quote from: 'fred lever' pid='127754' dateline='1675886658'Its Big Business trying to maximise profit and to hell with the customer.
Much more efficient to do things online by computer and get rid of all those pesky customers that just cause trouble and use up resources.

Fred.

So what happens when people refuse to use online and computers? Then they'll have no more customers. Therefore no profits and no incoming currency at all.
They will be shooting themselves in the foot.

Quote from: 'seedyrom' pid='127764' dateline='1675973754'Like clockwork
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/banking/towns-fury-at-disgraceful-westpac-move/news-story/dc5fb42254b02190c16ec54cabc0b276

Everyone with an account at that bank should withdraw all their money then the bank will collapse. What do we need a bank for if they don't provide an easy and convenient form of trading?
There has to be a fail safe if the power goes out.

Quote from: 'Triggersmob' pid='127793' dateline='1676376185'I agree with Goldie. We should all pull our money out and see what happens then.
They seem to forget they are making money with our funds.

This. So much this.

Quote from: 'fred lever' pid='127816' dateline='1676713796'Accountant's get direct data to do tax, cash is just a pest.

Banks and government are pests. They have interrupted our lives for far too long.

Scumcorp = Suncorp. It is a Queensland institution in combination with Metway.
I call them Scumcorp because they, like most banks, are closing our local branches making it harder to get your own money.
And I have recently heard that they will no longer provide a physical security token. They expect you to use their app.
No mobile = no app unless they come up with one for your computer.

Isolation fears grow as cash use plunges (https://todayspaper.smedia.com.au/smh/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=SMH%2F2023%2F10%2F23&entity=Ar01503&sk=EAE998A9&mode=text)

Interesting that only the $100 note increased in circulation. Must be the drug dealers.

Reported many times previously that they preferred $50 notes.
Business must be good and their briefcases, stuffed with illicit cash, just weren't big enough for the smaller notes.

Suncorp is also cancelling the issue of cheques from March (I think) next year.    So if you have a cheque account with make other plans.

CommBank Seven Hills limits coin cash withdrawal to $100 no option.
$500 in notes no problem.
They are closing the net.
Aust Post still just look confused when I ask to  withdraw cash.
They just don't carry much anymore.
$20 in $2 coins cleans them out!
All shops and businesses we go to work on phone tap or card with pin.
The only cash transaction I do now is chuck $2.40 at the paper shop guy for a paper.
Cashless is here now.
Fred.

Good to see you posting Fred.

Yes,i hardly use cash any more,only a matter of time before it disappears,5 years?,10?.

I'm in the process of getting new security screens for the house. Total cost about $10,700. Payment method. CASH.
Guy says, yep, no problem.
Not gone yet.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='128654' dateline='1698270794'I'm in the process of getting new security screens for the house. Total cost about $10,700. Payment method. CASH.
Guy says, yep, no problem.
Not gone yet.

Yes,around for a while yet.

As an aside be careful paying cash to a Tradesman,make sure GST is shown on the Invoice especially for a large amount like 10 grand.
That way if he's investigated he doesn't take you down as well.

Picked up some paint (2x Dulux for driveway) today for my son. Paid $420 cash, so cash isn't dead.
. Once soon a time $420 would have got the whole house painted, including the guys to paint it. Guess who has been volunteered to paint his sons driveway.

I still use it from time to time - I'm very opposed to paying the card fee that many small-time operators charge.

Todays phone and internet outage is a good reason to not go cashless. Could not check my account balance, could not pay for an eBay purchase and could not check my mortgage payment.
For those that tap and go with their phone I'll bet they found out when they went to pay for something that they were in a mess, like if they filled up at a servo and found they couldn't pay as many not only not carry cash but they don't even carry a card as they tap their phone. And as I had cash I could pay the $100 for petrol this morning.

Cash is King!
Went to 5 shops yesterday, 3 were off line and happy to see  a customer with folding cash!
A good reminder to the government about the use of cash.
Like Neal I always have cash in my wallet even though its a pain to actually get the stuff.
We have a generation so used to tapping away on the devices and tapping the device to pay.
It was so "funny" to see them standing  in a shop completely stuffed wanting to pay for a purchase and bewildered their tappy thing would not work.
Fred.

No doubt the betting operators had a bad day as well. Pity the outage wasn't on Tuesday, although, I don't mind the odd wager myself. 

Just hate intensely, how we are being funneled down this contrived path of perceived convenience, just not necessarily for those who really count. Us!!

Yes chaps, cash works fine offline!

I wonder if businesses that refuse cash will reconsider that policy. I suspect not, thinking that the reason is for their convenience, except it is not convenient when the system crashes and electronic payment is not possible.
That disease has even spread to Fiji; our visit in September we stayed an extra night in Nadi as air fare a day later was $200 each cheaper than the day we planned to return. The difference in one fare paid for our accomadation and food. The spare day we caught the earliest boat to Malololailai Island and spent the day there. Musket Cove Resort Marina was happy to take cash for our breakfast. After we walked up the other end of the Island to Plantation Resort they were happy to serve us a cold drink but "no cash, card or charge to your room". Needless to say we cancelled our plan to have lunch there but wandered back to Musket Cove. An hour, or so, before the last boat back to the "mainland" we went to their Island Bar and had a couple of cold Fiji Bitters.
(https://scontent.fsyd7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/398361054_323658723723774_5574393636818656129_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8cd0a2&_nc_ohc=akU8KQN8FOwAX9oLjDv&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd7-1.fna&oh=03_AdRB7BCMcQnQ2tjYZSCPZXkZiKdiKvT4vvISgQBrvMvTgQ&oe=6573ECEE)

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='128686' dateline='1699437058'Todays phone and internet outage is a good reason to not go cashless.

Indeed it is!

The internet outage made news here in Germany, too. It was said that 10 million Aussies were affected. But it was not sais where. In all of Australia or only in certain regions?

It was all over Ralf, where ever anyone uses the Optus phones or internet.
I use Belong which is on the Telstra network, so no problem.

Yes,Australia wide,with all the backup systems Optus have it will be interesting to see what 'broke'.

In the 3G days up here in Northern NSW we often had outages from both Telstra & Optus,if there was a festival/concert in Byron Bay the towers became congested which was a pain to access the Internet and super slow.

Since then i've had both Telstra & Optus(USB dongle) and had no problems until the Lismore floods a couple of years ago,both were out including the landline.  
SES had removed the radio's from their vehicles so they were stuffed as well,they are now fitting Satellite communications in them so something good came out of the disaster.

Quote from: 'Triggersmob' pid='128691' dateline='1699526174'It was all over Ralf, where ever anyone uses the Optus phones or internet.
I use Belong which is on the Telstra network, so no problem.

Thanks for the info

I didn't need to buy anything on Wednesday but I always have a little bit of cash on me.

Another example why you should always carry some cash;
Westpac outage leaves customers unable to access online banking (https://www.smh.com.au/money/banking/westpac-outage-leaves-customers-unable-to-access-online-banking-20231204-p5ep00.html)

"literally just had to leave my trolley at the supermarket whilst battling with 3 kids."

Why don't they do their "routine technology updates" at mid night 24.00 austime so they can catch stuff ups and fix them?

Fred what a stupid question.

That would be common sense.

Oh.

Cheers, Fred.

Fred,
They always have a reason  excuse for the stuff up. Invariably involves some version of "very sorry, it wasn't our fault, xxxxxxx (insert scapegoat name here) did/didn't do yyyyyyy (insert unintelligible technical jargon here).

And then they have the nerve to thank victims, sorry, customers for their patience. Then insincere promises (to a standard script we have heard many times before) to do better, won't happen again or such. Such promises are hope, not necessarily possible to keep.

You know that, I know that, almost everyone knows that except the companies concerned and the regulating bodies who are supposed to keep them in line.

What can we do?
"The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind"
Bob Dylan 1962

Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='128799' dateline='1701765243'They always have a reason  excuse for the stuff up. Invariably involves some version of "very sorry, it wasn't our fault, xxxxxxx (insert scapegoat name here) did/didn't do yyyyyyy (insert unintelligible technical jargon here).

And then they have the nerve to thank victims, sorry, customers for their patience. Then insincere promises (to a standard script we have heard many times before) to do better, won't happen again or such. Such promises are hope, not necessarily possible to keep.

You know that, I know that, almost everyone knows that except the companies concerned and the regulating bodies who are supposed to keep them in line.

A very funny read. Unfortunately, it is sadly oh so true...

And I just stumbled on this news (Rabobank is one of the largest banks in the Netherlands)

https://nltimes.nl/2023/12/05/rabobank-outage-showing-customers-eu0-accounts

No money in my account. Thanks BANK. We apologize for any convenience.

Quote from: 'fred lever' pid='128794' dateline='1701719950'Why don't they do their "routine technology updates" at mid night 24.00 austime so they can catch stuff ups and fix them?

I thought Westpac did their updates at 2.30AM on a Sunday morning usually.

Semi-related to all this, The Australian Financial Review had an article recently about the decline in cash usage affecting Armaguard and Prosegur's profitability - seems that pre-pandemic they were considering merging and they're definitely considering it now.

Quote from: 'redlock' pid='128690' dateline='1699514089'

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='128686' dateline='1699437058'Todays phone and internet outage is a good reason to not go cashless.

Indeed it is!

The internet outage made news here in Germany, too. It was said that 10 million Aussies were affected. But it was not sais where. In all of Australia or only in certain regions?

Check out this photo I took on that day.
It is a guy unironically using a pay phone. He could access his contacts, but not make a call on his mobile. It was like being in the days of the pager.

(//%5Burl=https://i.imgur.com/6MHEgFh.jpg%5Dhttps://i.imgur.com/6MHEgFh.jpg%5B/url%5D)

It looks like it is getting closer to having no cash.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/the-telling-sign-australia-could-go-cashless-by-2026-as-the-nation-s-biggest-cash-delivery-services-prosegur-and-armaguard-announce-huge-change/ar-AA1lpAol?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=1e785a677c214e62ba4e3651f818a9e8&ei=43

I do the banking at work and cash makes up about 5% of our daily sales now.

Getting some tree lopping done. Asked the guy today for a quote, about $1600. Okay with cash? Sure, no problem.

Went yesterday to HSBC to send money to wife's HSBC account in Egypt. Lots of third degree questioning because I had $4700 cash. Apparently the government is putting pressure on banks to question those of us using cash to send overseas. They really want to corral and control us and know everything about us. The teller had to get the ok from the manager to do the transfer and said I wouldn't be able to do such a cash transfer again.

The problem was you weren't sending the money to China. $50,000 cash to China. No problem.

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='128852' dateline='1702493208'The teller had to get the ok from the manager to do the transfer and said I wouldn't be able to do such a cash transfer again.

Why? Is there some cash amount that is okay?

Maybe they are declaring Egypt a terrorist backing country?

Dropped into the post office to pay the green slip.
(all other purchases are card or PAYPAL)
Second in the line, mind in neutral.
Sudden commotion at the counter wakes me up.
Guy in front of me says loudly.
YOU DONT HAVE ANY MONEY!?
I tune in all ears.
Guy wants to withdraw cash, no says lady , "we don't have money, you go to bank"
BUT YOU ARE THE BANK, YOU HAD SIGNS OUTSIDE WE  DO BANK BUISNESS HERE.
No says lady, we have no money, next please.
Unhappy customer leaves.
I don't know how much or what sort he wanted.
I noted some months ago the PO took down the signs indicating they would do all bank business.
I gave up getting coin there, go to the CBA in the next suburb where non commercial customers are limited to $100 maximum.
Thats ok for me.
So it seems the great Post Office experiment has fallen over.
The local shops say most payments are tap and go about 10% cash now.
All shops have  readers, none are cash only.
I just use the coins to throw $4.40 at the paper shop if I buy a paper only, any more purchases and out comes the card.
Don't use cash anywhere else but do keep $100 in wallet for when the system is down!
Fred.

Yes,people still need to keep a reserve of cash in case the systems crash.

Happy Xmas Fred.

You want to have your $100 in a multiple of denominations. If the net is down and the shop doesn't usually do cash, they aren't going to have change for a hundred dollar note. I'd recommend $200, $30 in fives, $30 in tens, $40 in twenties and 2 $50s.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='128897' dateline='1703335161'You want to have your $100 in a multiple of denominations. If the net is down and the shop doesn't usually do cash, they aren't going to have change for a hundred dollar note. I'd recommend $200, $30 in fives, $30 in tens, $40 in twenties and 2 $50s.

Yes,i always throw excess $2 & $1 coins in a large tin so always got a couple of hundred dollars on hand.

The Commonwealth bank limit is for $100 in coins only for non business accounts.
You can exchange any amount in notes with a daily limit of $5000

Blasted cards and cashless anything. A week or so ago my St George App went from showing my balance and transactions to a bunch of computer code. Had to reinstall it which is a pain so took 2 days. Then this morning early hours my account became overdrawn. Dodgy $708 eBay charge took my account negative. So the dodgy payment is still pending. Phone StGeorge hotline to report fraud but they only work 8 till 8. Phone them at 2pm and the auto system says there is greater than a 40 minute wait. Same again at 5.30pm. So they either have not put on staff to deal with some surge in fraud or they don't care. Bet the scammers are doing maximum scamming right now knowing many people are too busy with Christmas and maybe off camping or whatever and won't even realise they were scammed until the new year.
Hard to scam physical cash so was able to buy my daughters Christmas present an hour ago with cash as the card won't work.

I see my kids moving money around on their phones without a care in the world. Way too trusting for my liking.

Even tap and go raises my suspicions, but the way our system has become it's getting nearly to the point where there's little choice sometimes.

Bring back the old pass book I reckon. Then the banks would have to open 24/7 like some of us in the real world.

My concern is "If you don't see money, you don't have a proper grasp of what you are spending."
How can you be frugal if the money just disappears you have little to no concept of where it has gone?

I love passbooks. My mum had one till she died earlier this year. You had a physical asset that told you how much money you should have. Digital sucks.

I have a couple of old family passbooks - interesting to see the money coming and going over the years.

I picked up my usual serve of $2 coins yesterday for cash use from the bank hole in the wall.
The coins were in Armagard rolls and were all dates no UNCs no coloured coins all dirty circulated.
I mean DIRTY with stained and corroded examples.
They all seem to be Australian Mint coins not Chinese forgeries!
I always keep an eye open for forgeries.
Walter Bloom published an article on $2 forgeries back around Y2000 in CAB.
That gave me the heads up to look at the time and sure enough I found a handful of "different" $2.
I had an article about that published in CAB.
Some of the forgeries had obviously hand cut dies that look about right until you look closely!
King Billy and her Maj were caricatures of the real thing, and the Southern Cross is wrong placed.
Usually dated around 1990. Later coins had better die work but look circulated, some had no edge knurling.
I think the government quietly culled the duds from circulation and  it all died.
Fred.

Wel.................here is a comment on the Commonwealth Bank and the future of cash.
I dropped into the new "improved" Combank branch at 7-Hills in western Sydney.
Improved means only ONE teller now and a long queue of pensioners clutching bills and cash.
Lining the wall were a bunch of slot machines allowing cash and coin IN (deposit)  or cash NOTES out.
Only one slot machine to take out COINS, but only in exchange for CASH notes.
I did not bother to ascertain what maximum is involved at the machine.
I rocked up to the Teller, greeted by a pretty surly lady, no fun to be had here, who freaked when I asked for a couple of rolls of $1 coins.
(Thats the maximum,, $100, a peasant can take out in one go with a card.)
She groaned and stomped off to the lock up cupboard and pulled a tray with 20 rolls out and hacked two off that.
I noted the lock up cupboard had SFA amount of coin rolls, maybe they had more out the back.
Mission accomplished.
Most of the punters in the queue were older than me and I'm 80.
At least I'm not on a walker or wheely chair.
Yet.
By that time I'll be in the Daisy Hill Puppy Farm anyway and unable to care less.
The point is, the Bank is not interested in releasing coin to the public and discourages the use of coin.
My country friends, its coming to a town near you VERY SOON so be ready!!!

Old Fred.

Popped in Friday to the soon to be closed Westpac in Merrylands ( they are combining branches with St George in Stocklands). They did the same thing in Mt Druitt last year. Problem with shutting Main St branches and only having them in Westfields and whatnot is the ATMs are inaccessible after hours. Couple of months ago I went 6am to a St George ATM in St Mary's and it was out of order. Nearest ATM was in Mt Druitt ( not accessible as in Westfields), then heading East it is Blacktown ( again in a shut Westpoint).
And I used to use the ATM at Greystanes when I lived there (branch now closed) or at Wentworthville (branch now demolished).
If it is this hard to find banks in the suburbs I'd hate to think how bad it is in the bush.
And when I renewed my security licence recently there was no longer the option to pay cash. Had to be online and to add insult to that the government adds a merchant fee for paying online. I've also noticed more retailers such as my butcher and my green grocer now charge a fee to pay by card. Once cash goes we will be a captive market to pay fees every time we buy anything.

The way the cost of living is going I am rapidly heading for cashless -in hand or online. ☹️

I don't mind the cash machines - they're not always fully stocked but no one questions why I want lots of coins.

Hi Mr T!
i guess the point is if you don't have a "business" account with the bank, you are in the peasant class and are limited to $100 maximum on any one cash coin withdrawal!
That means that if you are cheeky you front up every day until they twig and have a word with you.
Go back a couple of years and the banks had branches in nearly every suburb in Sydney and i could walk in and take $500 worth or more coin of all sizes with a smile.
Now they have almost zero branches of any brand and you are either a noble or a peasant!
Problem there is pretty soon even businesses are going to join the peasant class and go cashless, or, start getting charged for trying to put in or take out cash coin.
The ideal branch apparently is a little shop with a row of computers for the punters to do banking and business and no notes or cash available at all.
Sounds ridiculous?
No. Just the most cost efficient of doing "banking".
Coming to a town near you soon!
Fred.

I have been questioned why I am getting change. Told my account is personal, not business, and the machines are for businesses to get change.
Advice was up to $100 per week would be acceptable.

Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='129233' dateline='1716152183'I have been questioned why I am getting change. Told my account is personal, not business, and the machines are for businesses to get change.
Advice was up to $100 per week would be acceptable.

When noodling $100/week is chump change. I often get $1000 in rolls when looking for $2 coloured coins. Luckily there are still a few coin dispensing ATMs out there.

Hi Neil!
Going to be tougher soon going by the machines installed in the 7hills branch.
In the old branch inside the 7hills shopping centre they had coin dispensing machines as you describe.
In the new joint ( outside the centre) just the ONE dispenser machine taking CASH notes only.
The notion of taking out cash coin on your card is over.
Not sure how they tell if you have a "business" account or peasant account.
I'm only getting  a bit of cash out to throw at the paper shop man.
I'll get the paper delivered soon, and I won't need any cash money at all.
(Oh, we still use cash at the cake shop, when we buy a pie or cake.
Bugger.)
If i want cash notes  i go to the one and only ATM in the main street of Toongabbie outside the new business centre.

The  PO is a dead loss they just look stupid if you want coin or cash.
ALSO, i found the local PO in Toongabbie now will not provide the service  of CERTIFYING a copy of a document as they used to.
The person behind the counter just gave me a stupid look and made noises like Manuel the waiter in faulty towers!
Keh? What you mean? You want what?
The chemist and my GP just have a stamp that says "i certify ect ect" and away we go.
The PO is now more useless than t s  on bull.

Fred.

Quote from: 'fred lever' pid='129235' dateline='1716290042'Not sure how they tell if you have a "business" account or peasant account.

Here in Germany, it is easy. Business and peasant accounts are given totally different account numbers by the banks. Of course, a normal customer doesn't easily recognize it because the number of digits and letters are the same. But the ATMs (banknotes) and coin dispensers (which numbers have been reduced greatly) recognize it instantly. And of course, if you go to a cashier he/she checks it by typing the account number into the computer.

I do not think cash will ever disappear. Even though the phrase "cashless society" is often thrown around by the media and of course banks are making it more and more difficult to withdraw cash by limiting ATM's etc the fact remains that people have learned through recent major outages of the electronic system that cash is the only effective form of commerce backup.
I know there are many business that do not accept cash and until a recent conversation with a business owner I was always under the impression they had signed onto some globalist plan. The simple fact was that they removed cash because of robberies they experienced and not because they did not embrace the notion of cash as a medium of exchange. That said they also mentioned they preferred cash because there are no fees associate with handling cash unlike fees for card machines etc. Nonetheless, how many business/activities out there can only survive on cash eg donation boxes or people knocking on your door for donations, tipping at certain entertainment venues (use your imagination), lemonade stands and fares etc
Despite the statistics reported if cash usage was on a downhill slope why is it still produced by The Royal Australian Mint and Note Printing Australia Limited - there must be a logical reason otherwise why spend all that money making currency that is not often used.

Which banks are you with? The Westpac machines I've used don't seem to have an obvious limit although I've never probed too deeply. No one has ever talked to me while using one either.

No limit with the CBA machine I have used. Just eagle eyed surveillance from staff who know me from when I used to come in regularly exchanging coins over the counter.

Our local member has introduced a private member's bill.
MPs launch campaign to ensure retail keeps cash alive (https://todayspaper.smedia.com.au/smh/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=SMH%2F2024%2F06%2F04&entity=Ar00302&sk=4A209B33&mode=text)

That is definitely a bill I would like to see get up. I refuse to deal with businesses that won't take cash.

Ah sorry - the Westpac machines limit you to 12 rolls of each denomination I think - it's been a while.
That said, no one has ever bothered me.

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='129301' dateline='1717799359'Ah sorry - the Westpac machines limit you to 12 rolls of each denomination I think - it's been a while.
That said, no one has ever bothered me.

Is that per transaction? Can you do multiple transactions on the same day?

Yeah rolls per denomination per transaction as far as I can tell. I have done multiple on the same day in the past I believe.

Banks to finance Armaguard (https://switzer.com.au/the-experts/peter-switzer/lindsay-fox-twists-into-submissions-the-arms-of-banks/)

I've been doing a payments diary for a week for a survey company. Record all your payments and method of paying. Also any cash withdrawals.
Fortunately ALL my payments including $134.70 to the doctors have been cash. Plus they got the right week for my standard fortnightly cash withdrawal from Scumcorp.
Hopefully other people are also showing that cash is not dead.
The people that annoy me are the ones at the supermarket who stuff about with their cards or phone, and haven't even got it ready when the checkout person says the cost. I just want to say "Cash is quicker."

I'm with you gweidion, and every time we shop electronically, someone else has the potential to know about it. All this tech and A. I. BS will get us eventually.

Our Son Inlaw's Dad was scammed today. He lives in Canada and received a call from a supposed lawyer representing his Son. Bail money was being asked for after a hit and run, they even put the son on the phone to speak with his father. Later, when the father rang back, he was surprised his son answered the phone, considering he was in goal. But no more surprised than his son!!

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='129431' dateline='1719976520'I've been doing a payments diary for a week for a survey company. Record all your payments and method of paying. Also any cash withdrawals.
Fortunately ALL my payments including $134.70 to the doctors have been cash. Plus they got the right week for my standard fortnightly cash withdrawal from Scumcorp.
Hopefully other people are also showing that cash is not dead.
The people that annoy me are the ones at the supermarket who stuff about with their cards or phone, and haven't even got it ready when the checkout person says the cost. I just want to say "Cash is quicker."

Cash is not always quicker. I went down the chemist just before to get a Covid testing kit because I have come down with something and the lady two spots ahead of me was fumbling around in her purse trying to get the right change for the items she had purchased and then she was 5 cents short and had to go back into her purse. I agree with you though it does not matter if you are paying cash or card you should be ready with either one when it comes time to pay.

Annoying as heck when at the supermarket and someone is paying by phone. Seems like there is always an issue and problems with PIN numbers or account balances  and then the woman (mostly women) have to phone someone (husband?) to transfer money or to remind them of the pin.
With cash the only problem seems to be women (always women) who when the items have all been scanned and they are told the total only then fish and fumble into their handbag to find their purse, then they open it and then they find the cash (or their card). Seriously women need to get their act together and have their payment method ready.
And I normally already has calculated the total and has the exact amount ready to not waste time.

I add mine up as I go too. Can't expect the current generation to do maths in their head though.

Its a real problem here, we have worthless tiny coins and shops putting up signs saying that they no longer accept cash.

They quote a rash of ram raids and streetkids doing robberies as an excuse, but they are not there to steal coins, they want smokes, vapes, alcohol and precious metal (Several jewellery shops in our Indian ghettoes have been hit by drug fueled and gang prospect Polynesians). Also as the banks charge cash handling fees now and people do not want to pay a worker 15 minutes to kount up the kash.

Its technically legal as the money is legal tender, yet a sign clearly shown, is enough to skip around the law. It also does not help that free ATMs are only found at bank branches (More scarce) and shopping malls and some arcades. whereas places where cash is likely to be spent like a supermarket, they have added "Allpoint" ATMs not linked to any specific bank  (In New Zealand, Debit card transactions are free on any bank's ATM), and the Allpoints charge fees of at least $3 to extract cash from your account, so hence discouraging people from doing so and thus swiping the cards.

Its insisdious and hideous, but no one cares or is doing anything about it. Fast food restaurants use kiosks that make it easier to use cards than cash and faster and some now are losing the cash facility. The words "Legal tender" now are meaningless.

Very sad reports from NZ by tane...

The banks are also closing branches, so it makes it harder for the retailers to deposit the cash. We still accept cash at work, but cards are certainly used more these days. I do the banking at work, and out of maybe $7K - $9K in retail sales per day, I would only bank $200 - $600 in cash.

Quote from: 'Tanecoins' pid='130530' dateline='1763083180'Its a real problem here, we have worthless tiny coins and shops putting up signs saying that they no longer accept cash.

Any shops that display that I will walk out of. I accept cash in our store and I will only deal with those that do the same.
A cashless society, for mine, is the first step to total control over everything you do and what you spend. Those in charge cannot be trusted to not interfere and freeze your accounts etc as a punishment or whatever. The same applies to digital id. Cheers.

Tell me about it. Helped my daughter buy a car a couple of weeks ago. Went to do a bank transfer of $17,000, well under my allowed transfer limit.
Sorry, no, your payment is on hold for 24 hours. Sorry for any convenience. FFS.
Soon it will be, sorry no, we don't allow you to pay that person/company. It is your money, but no.
I'd rather have paid cash.
Going to have the same damned problem when I try to get my wife a new car.

Just a new comment on the use of  cash.
I talked to some people last month that have NEVER used cash or even held a banknote of coin.
They are the current generation just becoming adults, 15 to 20 YO.
This is the trend whether you old fogies like it or not!
My grand kids, now adults, would be about the last generation to have handled cash.
Their kids will simply never see cash as all transactions are being done by a device in the hand.
In the city that's how it is now, cash is dead.
In the suburbs of Sydney, I only use cash just for fun to buy a real paper newspaper (what's that? said a 20YO!)
I have go out of my way to get cash from the bank to do this, we have no "change" coming in now.
Why am I even doing that? Nostalgia and a talking point.
Every other bill or transaction I now Bpay, bank transfer or bank debit card, end of story.
Gweidion, don't fret about waiting for a bank transfer, that gives you and the bank time to do the secondary OK security checks and avoid that guy in some other country draining your account!
This is the world we live in now whether flat earthers and tin foil canoe paddler protesters like it or not.
When I showed a shoe box full of decimal 'keepers' to some young adults they were amazed.
They had never seen so many notes and coins in the flesh.
I now see how important the government's push is to educate young people about coins, cash, and saving.
Keeping the Mint open and minting what I have called 'useless' coins i now realize has a solid foundation behind it.
The colored coins keep the presence of cash in the public knowledge.
I'm a slow learner but you have to stop looking at coinage as collectors and consider the social and all aspects of monetary commerce.
All it takes is a bit of thinking................

Fred.

Yep, things have gone to hell. Multiple billions of dollars lost to scammers every year.
How much of it do you think is in cash? Eff all I imagine.
Gone are the days where you might find money on the ground.
Having said that, just the other day,  I did pick up a very battered 5 cent piece off the road on my walk to the Castle Hill track.

Agree with all of you. There is a small movement of "cashers" in New Zealand, people who use cash for everything, as the number of internet breakdowns, power cuts and hackings increases and digitised money can't be used. But even the tills are powered by electricity, or some internet programme hacked by Dimitry Skamnikov from Putinskaya Komputorofski hackers.

So we use cash as much as possible, supermarkets, takeaways and I try to avoid no cash places, but its really hard when your campus is 3km from nowhere and all the cafes only accept cards.

I find too any worker of race (Like Indian, Polynesian, Chinese) or special needs (Autistic, low intelligence- shelter hires in which the shop can pay these workers as little as 50 cents an hour), they do not know at all about cash and get supervisors or plead for the card to make it easy. I have nao sympathetico (Portuguese for no sympathy). It is their job and they should be thankful they have one and are only employed as the shops are too cheap to hire a quality person like me or train these workers properly as it takes money and time.

Our government is making it compulsory for the likes of petrol stations and grocery stores to accept cash.
I would have thought all shops would like cash, so they can hide it from the tax man. Especially the fish & chip shops.

Cash is still good at the racetrack. Not that we go often, but it's good sport on a big race day to watch the punters charge the bookies with wads of cash in their hands. On one occasion a guy dropped a fifty as he quickly brushed past my wife: she quickly swooped like a seagull onto a stale chip.

I'm doing our bit. My wife got back from a week's holiday on the North Island today.
I gave her $1550 NZ and said enjoy. She only gave me back about $315 so she did pretty well for a week.
She said she bought small things at shops and often dumped coins on the counter asking if they needed change.
Most shopkeepers were thrilled to get some change. Only ended up with about ten dollars worth of coins.

Did she manage to get any 2024 KCIII 10c coins?

I'll look for you Steve. She didn't have many ten cents. I tossed them in the safe for the next trip in a few years.

Steve, we don't even have any 2022 coins yet, let alone 2024 ones.

Last week shopping I got a shiny new $1 in change and it was 2020.
Its the dictatorial republic of Nieuw Zeelandt remember.

OK, Numista shows over 22 million made for circulation.
I guess they are still in the vaults.

If we even have them in the vault. Numista and even some of our catalogues took ages to erase the mythological 8 million $2 coins dated 2016, which never existed.

Fantasy mintings happen here. Covid meant that many coins ordered were delayed or scrapped as an urban legend went around that covid can be spread by cash and many shops banned cash illegally during the covid lockdowns and this was the era of queueing and spacing like 1944 style rationing for the war effort. Woke left wing governments made the world look like the authoritative control eras of the 1930s and 1940s when the "Wu flu" and "Xi's shot at biological warfare" raged.

This makes me think, China still needs to be punished for creating Covid and trying to control the world but attempting to murder millions with covid as a biological weapon.

Bit like our 1992 $1. Suppose to be 8000 minted, but none ever seen.

Actually one was shown on Facebook if I recall correctly.

OK, maybe 1 then. Where are the other 7999?

Its possible, they were minted in 1992, but dated 1993, or they were thrown back in the pot to make newer dollaz. Mints often keep proofs, "samples", specimens etc of each date for museums and you can't go past crooked or light fingered employees who would know the potential riches of keeping such a piece aside.

On another note, at the Library, a sign bragging they are now cashless and its "cleaner and more convenient for all" is just more anger for me. Basically we got rid of coins to save money and time, if it helps they don't charge fines anymore, but you get charged for new releases, 7 day hires and some Blurays or something.

More convenient for them, they mean. No visits to the bank for deposits and change.

Cash is not dead yet!
As of yesterday, first of January 2026 retailers are legally obliged to accept cash for many transactions;
"most retailers must accept cash for in‑person transactions of $500 or less between 7am and 9pm."

https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/media-releases/mandating-cash-acceptance (https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/media-releases/mandating-cash-acceptance)

Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='130655' dateline='1767336004'Cash is not dead yet!
As of yesterday, first of January 2026 retailers are legally obliged to accept cash for many transactions;
"most retailers must accept cash for in‑person transactions of $500 or less between 7am and 9pm."

https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/media-releases/mandating-cash-acceptance (https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/media-releases/mandating-cash-acceptance)

Now if we could only convince the banks that cash is legal tender  :D

Pedro

I wonder if fast food stores like https://www.bettysburgers.com.au/ are required to accept cash then? Probably not.
They were refusing cash many years ago. My wife and I stopped by a store to buy some of their overpriced burgers and the girl working there said "no cash". I said "no burgers" and walked out.

Oh, and Steve, those 1992 MoRs dollars were 8000 minted, not 80000.

Hi Daniel, I did type 8000, unless I need new glasses. LOL

Between 7.00AM and 9.00PM? Bit of an annoying caveat.

Quote from: 'Triggersmob' pid='130671' dateline='1768466503'Hi Daniel, I did type 8000, unless I need new glasses. LOL

Hmm, looks like I need glasses then.

    Mister T
    Between 7.00AM and 9.00PM? Bit of an annoying caveat.
 Do you shop outside those hours? That is what I call a dedicated shopper.

Good on your government for making cash mandatory and the hours also stop the dodgy money launderer spending $50000 at a McDonalds at 2am.

NZ could do the same, except we have the same issue, cashless banks and retailrs declaring a war on cash. One salvo is the right wing government (And I am surprised as anything that helps the common people is totally Labour/Greens), has banned retailers from charging surcharges on credit card and paywave payments and retailers are not happy, threatening to increase prices etc. I deally a surcharge should be 0.5 - 1% for card fee, but some cheeky shops are charging 2 - 3% and then not telling you until the price shows up on the screen.

Are we going to see buskers in the street with their own EFTPOS machine?

We are supposed to be moving to ban fees of debit EFTPOS (it is already our money) and possibly credit card transaction fees. I certainly hope they do. It doesn't usually affect me cause I pay in cash nearly everywhere I can.
I want those scam ticket selling companies like Ticketek banned from adding on ridiculous fees. Just put them in the ticket prices ya pricks.

Quote from: 'gweidion' pid='130685' dateline='1768639284'

Quote from: 'Triggersmob' pid='130671' dateline='1768466503'Hi Daniel, I did type 8000, unless I need new glasses. LOL

Hmm, looks like I need glasses then.

    Mister T
    Between 7.00AM and 9.00PM? Bit of an annoying caveat.
 Do you shop outside those hours? That is what I call a dedicated shopper.

Not usually no but if I'm out at night for dinner or whatever, I'd still like the cash option then. If it was not obligated between 12.00AM and 6.00AM I think that's a bit more reasonable but ultimately I'd rather no restrictions.

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='130674' dateline='1768561720'Not usually no but if I'm out at night for dinner or whatever, I'd still like the cash option then. If it was not obligated between 12.00AM and 6.00AM I think that's a bit more reasonable but ultimately I'd rather no restrictions.

If you are at a restaurant they are supposed to have a sign on clear display saying they don't accept cash. If they don't have a sign and you've eaten, they are still obligated to accept cash for a debt. 
If you are just playing the pokies they will want cash, unless your club has introduced one of those "play on card" only arrangements.

I haven't played the pokies for over a year now, but when I was finishing up in Dec 24' and Jan 25', our main casino in Christchurch and most "pokie bars" here - had moved to a paper ticket system, where you could only insert low value notes into a machine and you got paid out in a ticket to the nearest $2 and any amount over was either gambled or you played it off (99% of the time, if you gambled, you lost). I can only imagine its much worse now.

NZ gambling is must stricter than Australia, we don't have footy, RSA and "Hellenic Clubs: with rooms of 100+ machines which you can win thousands on. Our pubs are limited to 18 machines and top prize is $500 with jackpots up to $1,000 and they police hard - yet the rooms are always full of mostly Maori, Islander, Old white pensioners, and Asian punters who are hardcore addicts. The poorer people get loud and bash the machines and get kicked out. Often some will beg for money when they run out and smoking happens a lot too. RSAs are limited to 9 machines and same with Workingmens clubs, which are nearly gone (With less than 200 Greeks in NZ, we don't have Hellenic or Italian clubs).

The days of coins in a casino died here in the 1990s. As for charities with eftpos terminals, reality now and even on my excursion train, they preferred eftpos to cash, despite the mobile machine breaking down due to remote locations, tunnels and the fact they have not rolled out sat nav or 5g here yet in every area.

W.A. is stricter than the rest of Australia and NZ. 
Only place that you can gamble at is the casino, or a two-up game on ANZAC day.

Sounds good, then again I have only been to Sydney and Melburne and not since 2013 - both were drowning in pokies.

I can't see the cashless society by 2020 (six years long gone by.
Real money will always remain as there isn't any alternative except bartering.
Imagine the Net or parts thereof being down due to any reason.How do you pay if there's no banking signal?
"Look Mate, will you take my watch for this takeaway meal, please?"

Even fiat currency isn't great.
Look mate, will you take this wheelbarrow full of cash for a loaf of bread?
(See Germany early 1920s or Argentina)

It may have not gone cashless, but its getting close, many places don't accept cash in NZ, mainly as cash is so worthless now. In 1967 $100 was 2 to 3 weeks wages for the average worker, now its 3 hours pay for a well off worker and even a beneficiary can earn it in 2 days.

$100 in 1967 had the buying power of $3,900 in today's money.

I think we have reached the nadir of cashlessness though, as we have grassroots cash usage groups and real blowback by people against the wave of cash bans and malls and shops removing bank ATMs that are free to use, with Allpoints and other generic brands that charge to take cash out ($2 or $3 per $100 and discounted if you join their club - more spying and marketing like loyalty clubs). Adding ATMs that charge fees is a clear act of trying to stop usage of physical cash over digital banking that is tracked.

A conservative party here wants to pass an act that makes cash handling mandatory in all retail outlets (A ban on no cash stores), and also force banks to open "Banking hubs" - collections of Smart ATMs that accept deposits and give out change as well as standard withdrawls and all 5 major banks represented, in towns where branches of a bank have been removed.

The war on cash is so absurd, that bank tellers don't even have cash now, the only way to get it is with ATMs.

I must admit I don't use cash much. Mainly because I very rarely visit the shops anyway.
Weekly grocery shopping is done online and delivered. Petrol I pay for in the app.
Take away is also done in the app. Our local bank branch also closed.

The funny version of the wheelbarrow story was the man who took his wages to a bakery to get some bread, he went inside to check the price and came out to see that he had been robbed!


The wheelbarrow was gone, however the thieves had taken the money out and stacked it neatly on the footpath!

Haha, yeah, I think I heard that before.

Our money is getting like that, $50 is not even a valuable note like that anymore, even a $2 coin has little interest here as it won't even buy a can of drink or a meat pie.

I think the solution is reform the coins and notes, Australia is still using coin designs from 1966. A 5 cent coin today has no practical use at all, 5c in 1966 was close to $2 today. Same with NZ.

New system should be coins of 25c, $1, $5 and notes of $10, $25, $100, $250, $500 and $1,000 and later on a $5,000. Such high values would restore faith in the cash system.

Don't give the any ideas.
As it is, they don't like us having hundreds.
We'll be like India where the $20 equivalent is the maximum note.