You're not going to believe this, but I just noodled a double-tailed 20c coin. Should I assume that it's a piece of mint sport, or is there some other way it could have been made? I don't know whether I should be excited or disappointed by this discovery. Please help me! :beg:
Check the edge of the coin
We want pics:exclamation:
The edge (where the milling is) looks intact, but one side of the coin appears to have a ring around about 2/3 of the edge, but the other 1/3 also looks intact. I'm trying to make up my mind whether the ring comes from the die being slightly off-centre, or someone deliberately hollowing out one of the coins and gluing another inside it (see http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/Double-Sided-Coins-What-are-they-really-/10000000016284388/g.html ). Either option looks possible, so I'm not sure how to tell the difference between the two. Do you have any ideas?
Have you taken some pics? That would be good :)
Quoteappears to have a ring around about 2/3 of the edge,
That should tell you something :angel:
Yeah Herc you've been around long enough now to know we all want pic's :winkextra:
A cool find either way, well done :good:
Are the verses aligned?
From what I've seen on double verse coins, most are at 180 degrees rotated (only way for the die to be put into the press)
Here are the photos:
Side 1:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11527/Double-Tailed_20c_-_Side_1.jpg)
Side 2 (note the ring around the edge):
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11527/Double-Tailed_20c_-_Side_2.jpg)
Side 1 again:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11527/Double-Tailed_20c_Rotated_-_Side_1.jpg)
Side 2 (rotated about the vertical axis from Side 1):
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11527/Double-Tailed_20c_Rotated_-_Side_2.jpg)
Thanks for the pic's Herc but gee it's hard to tell but it may have been machined, bloody good job if it has been, thanks for sharing :good:
The second pic really looks like it's been machined :scratch_one-s_head:
I would have had less of a shock if I'd found a wavy. :kez_15: :laugh2:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='106340' dateline='1488885968'The second pic really looks like it's been machined :scratch_one-s_head:
Yup. Shed job, for sure.
We all know how these are made, right?
One side is hollowed out, the other is cut down to fit, then they're pressed together. Usually the seam is in the corner between field and rim, where it won't be noticed.
Like so:
(http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/uploaded/koinpro/20150427_1994-P-50c-DblHeadedOutAndInsideW.jpg)
2 perfect examples of machined shop coins I bought these from "OVERSEAS" for christ sake, name your coin, heads/heads, tails/tails.
I bought these because of a thread on another forum, yep double headed five cent pieces. got booted because I dare question some thieving ahole selling double headed coins used these as an example, shouldn't have done that, it was the wrong thing to do so I got booted.
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/Image1-259_edited-1_zps61yzrufc.jpg)
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/Image1-258_edited-1_zpsc2qjzgq8.jpg)
Even if it does turn out to be a machined or magicians coin it is still a Very interesting noodling find and would have made your heart tremble when you first spotted it :)
Nicely found Mate :yahoo::good:
Quoteit was the wrong thing to do so I got booted.
What you did was the Right thing to do and those that did the "Booting" were the ones doing the wrong thing :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='106346' dateline='1488890505'it is still a Very interesting noodling find
Quite so. As an artifact, these things are as desirable as many other objects, from letters to signs to inlaid boxes. Its just that they're not really coins, that's all.
Well, when you want to win a toss Hercules you've got the coin to do it. :grin:
Pedro
As long as you remember what to call!
Thanks for all your comments. Does anyone know what the legality is of keeping such a coin?
Don't tell anyone. :)
Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='106352' dateline='1488923087'Well, when you want to win a toss Hercules you've got the coin to do it. :grin: Pedro
Well, if the other person calls tails he/she immediately wins. :tease: :acute:
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='106360' dateline='1488932559'Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='106352' dateline='1488923087'Well, when you want to win a toss Hercules you've got the coin to do it. :grin: Pedro
Well, if the other person calls tails he/she immediately wins. :tease: :acute:
Hopefully, I'll find one of those double-headed 5c coins soon. Then I definitely will win, because I won't produce the coin until the other person's decided which side they want. :biggrin:
Just what is the error?
Is it the same on both sides?
Yes a double tail coin RG but it looks like it's a lath job but still an interesting find.
Quote from: 'Hercules' pid='106358' dateline='1488929274'the legality is of keeping such a coin?
Good question.
Manufacturing one would certainly be illegal, as it involves destroying two coins.
But once done, the result is still a 'real' coin, albeit half the value of the inputs, right?
Well, no, not quite.
I would have thought there would be no issue with possessing one, however I just had a lengthy chat with the guy responsible for this at the AFP, and he tells me that ALL these coins, whether counterfeit, sports or manufactured errors are illegal, and treated the same way as fake banknotes for example. There is no distinction over anything which either purports to be, or looks like, currency. He told me about a recent case where foreign banknotes were reported as counterfeit, and their investigations revealed that although demonetised and no longer circulating, they were actually genuine. The notes were subsequently returned to the owner and the matter dropped.
They do use common sense and treat things on a case-by-case basis. So while an innocent buyer would lose his coin if detected, he would almost certainly not be charged for possession.
He did ask me to request that any and all listings we find be reported, either through Crime Stoppers or the AFP website because they simply do not have the resources to monitor everything, and they are more heavily focussed on counterterrorism and drugs on a daily basis. Basically, they need to be told what's going on if they're going to be able to do their jobs.
I think you could tell them but they wouldn't do anything about it, same as drugs and guns. Wouldn't want to interfere with a coffee break :winkextra: They'd have a field day on FB and ebay if they did actually do something about it but I can't see it happening as some of the pages say they have coppers on them but you still see these coins everywhere.
They do chase up the fake notes though
I find it funny how they don't really worry about coins but if you sell the right fake coins and a lot of them you could potentially make a lot of money. Same as how the government isn't worried about the rich and big business avoiding tax as that's ok.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='106409' dateline='1489089533'Same as how the government isn't worried about the rich and big business avoiding tax as that's ok.
Or politicians misusing their "entitlements".
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='106409' dateline='1489089533'I find it funny how they don't really worry about coins but if you sell the right fake coins and a lot of them you could potentially make a lot of money. Same as how the government isn't worried about the rich and big business avoiding tax as that's ok.
It comes down to a cost/benefit analysis. You don't spend ten grand to recover a dollar. And, as it happens, I'm in the middle of that exact situation, because of people who failed to grasp this basic concept, went on a witchhunt over a couple of hundred bucks and led to the hunted party going over the edge and causing $50,000 in criminal damages. Plus the legal fees which are going to be 5 figures. The person is now insane and will certainly be found to be mentally incompetent, and even were this not the case, has zero ability to repay, and probably a strong case to seek compensation. Plus the insurers will refuse to cover any of this fisaco.
Generally speaking, governments (well, OK, not Trump's government, but that's a special case) get this, and don't engage in pointless stupidity. Well, unless there's a political goal involved anyway, as in the refugees we've got locked up.
There's no political capital in coins, so don't expect anything other than cold hard financial considerations to direct the course of action.
I think saying it comes down to a cost/benefit analysis is just their way of saying we're to slack to do our job so I think I should get into making fake coins and not worry about the notes as they don't worry about the coins but bloody good money if you make the right coins :winkextra:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='106440' dateline='1489142204'I think I should get into making fake coins
Just make sure to include the Trout Mint name, logo, address and phone number. Its great advertising. :angel:
Mate I wouldn't have the required skill to be able to machine something like that, Probably one of AJ's (On the Side) projects :angel::laugh2:
Oh so it's all good for me to do "on the side project" :laugh2: Sweeeeet :yahoo:
Well, yeah.. I mean, y'gotta have SOME uses, right? :angel:
I take it you haven't been told today..well consider it done now :angel:
Awww, thanks. :)