Ok Mark, I know you hate to add new sections to the site:angel:
It would be beneficial and educational if we had a section here that the members could submit a coin with the best pic’s they can take or get for the appraisal of the coin boffins on the site :yahoo:
Besides everyone loves to see coin pic’s and a discussion regarding the grade is always healthy and informative.
It would also help the newbie’s buying on eBay or anywhere else for that matter to get an assessment of a coin they are interested in before they commit their hard earned cash on a bid :good:
How say you Mark Yay or Nay ?
Here you go Trout. LOL. Seriously though, I reckon it's a great idea, for grading dummies like me.
(http://www.motorera.com/dictionary/pics/g/grader.jpg)
I am always interested in grading ozzie pre-decimals. KGVI is always a challenge.
Love the pic Steve:yahoo::laugh2:
[attachment=881]
Quote from: 'trout' pid='6273' dateline='1358151651'Ok Mark, I know you hate to add new sections to the site:angel:
I hate creating new forum sections.
Seriously though. I hate creating new forum sections.
More seriously though. Good idea.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='6288' dateline='1358158014'Quote from: 'trout' pid='6273' dateline='1358151651'Ok Mark, I know you hate to add new sections to the site:angel:
I hate creating new forum sections.
Seriously though. I hate creating new forum sections.
More seriously though. Good idea.
Thanks Mate:friends::drinks:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='6289' dateline='1358159056'Thanks Mate:friends::drinks:
It'll have to wait for the morning. I am bleary eyed now and will probably delete the whole forum if I try to do it. PPH suggested putting it in the Numismatic Discussion area which sounded like a good idea.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='6291' dateline='1358161130'Quote from: 'trout' pid='6289' dateline='1358159056'Thanks Mate:friends::drinks:
It'll have to wait for the morning. I am bleary eyed now and will probably delete the whole forum if I try to do it. PPH suggested putting it in the Numismatic Discussion area which sounded like a good idea.
I learn't a long time ago , Never argue with "She who must be obayed".
Bloody good idea PP:yahoo:
Hey Presto (http://www.australian-coins.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
Beauty, now I will have to dig my coins out and start taking some pics.
Thanks Markn.
Looks like the grading section was a good idea of yours Mark:yahoo:
I've been reading the grading section with interest. Is anyone going to explain the MSxx system. Comments on some appear to be all over the shop, which means many simply have little or no idea and appear to be only guessing. I certainly don't understand it. There appears to be little explanation as to how an opinion was arrived at. I might drop in every now and again and drop an MS64 or an MS65.
If you want to grade a coin, please explain why you have arrived at that conclusion. Otherwise simply show us the slabbed label.
Quote from: 'Graham' pid='6425' dateline='1358290116'I've been reading the grading section with interest. Is anyone going to explain the MSxx system. Comments on some appear to be all over the shop, which means many simply have little or no idea and appear to be only guessing. I certainly don't understand it. There appears to be little explanation as to how an opinion was arrived at. I might drop in every now and again and drop an MS64 or an MS65.
If you want to grade a coin, please explain why you have arrived at that conclusion. Otherwise simply show us the slabbed label.
This is a pretty good site for the basics about the Sheldon system of grading.
I personally prefer the ANDA system and apply it to all my own coins, However with the amount of Australian coins getting graded and slabbed by US TPG's it is handy to be able to cross reference the grades.
the MS coins in Sheldon are UNC,chUNC,BU and fdc in ANDA.
MS60 being a baggy unattractive but uncirculated coin up to a MS70 which is a coin perfect in every way.
http://coins.about.com/od/coingrading/f/sheldon_scale.htm
If you simply ignore the prefixes applied to Sheldon (VF,EF,AU) and concentrate on the number score it is a lot easier to use
Quote from: 'Graham' pid='6425' dateline='1358290116'I've been reading the grading section with interest. Is anyone going to explain the MSxx system. Comments on some appear to be all over the shop, which means many simply have little or no idea and appear to be only guessing. I certainly don't understand it. There appears to be little explanation as to how an opinion was arrived at. I might drop in every now and again and drop an MS64 or an MS65.
If you want to grade a coin, please explain why you have arrived at that conclusion. Otherwise simply show us the slabbed label.
For Mint State (Uncirculated) coins the following by emu666 is a great write up.
http://www.thesandpit.net/index.php?option=pcgs_1
For Mint State (Uncirculated) coins the following by emu666 is a great write up.
http://www.thesandpit.net/index.php?option=pcgs_1
that was indeed an interesting page,
thanks Fr45h3R :good:
My understanding would convert some of the higher Sheldon grades to Australian grades as follows
SHELDON AUSTRALIAN
AU50 aEF
AU55 EF
AU58 aUNC
MS60-62 UNC
MS63-64 Ch UNC
MS65+ GEM
MS70 FDC
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='6432' dateline='1358297380'My understanding would convert some of the higher Sheldon grades to Australian grades as follows
SHELDON AUSTRALIAN
AU50 aEF
AU55 EF
AU58 aUNC
MS60-62 UNC
MS63-64 Ch UNC
MS65+ GEM
MS70 FDC
Yep ,Thats the way I see them as cross grades.:good:
The AU50 and AU55 are prety missleading to Aussie collectors unless they have at least a basic understanding of the Sheldon grades.
So.....
MS60 is uncirculated
MS61 is less uncirculated
MS62 is even less uncirculated
MS 63 is really really good uncirculated
MS 64 is really really really good uncirculated.
MS 65+ is really (65) really (66) really (67) really (68) really (69) sh*t hot uncirculated.
Is there an established description of what makes the difference in incirculated state in (say) a $1 coin?
I have a GEM 1972 5 cent. What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+?
I have a GEM 1972 5 cent. What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+?
Whack a pic up and let us all have a squizz.
ALL my 72 5 cents are crap, It will be nice to drool over a nice one:yahoo:
CORRECTION
So.....
MS60 is uncirculated
MS61 is more uncirculated -
MS62 is even more uncirculated
MS 63 is really really good uncirculated (or choice uncirculated)
MS 64 is really really really good uncirculated.(choice uncirculated +)
MS 65+ is really (65) really (66) really (67) really (68) really (69) sh*t hot uncirculated.
Is there an established description of what makes the difference in incirculated state in (say) a $1 coin?
I have a GEM 1972 5 cent. What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+? - correct
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='6437' dateline='1358298873'Is there an established description of what makes the difference in incirculated state in (say) a $1 coin?
I have a GEM 1972 5 cent. What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+? - correct
If you're looking to sell in Australia then I would look to grade to the standard laid out by ANDA. To produce a definitive list of what makes a 5 cent or $1 a certain grade would be most difficult. It really comes down to experience, of knowing what the high points of each design are to look for where wear occurs etc.
From the ANDA guide to grading (http://www.anda.com.au/documents/resource/00114_Pt%202%20-%20Grading%20Commonwealth%20coins.pdf) a GEM Uncirculated is defined as:
A superior coin with an almost perfect Strike. May show just a few minute Detracting Marks, barely visible to the naked eye. Virtually Full Lustre or Mint Bloom is present. An attractive toning (if present) may enhance Eye Appeal, on silver coins,but is less desirable on bronze coins. Overall, a close to perfect coin.
This applies as much to the stuff in your pocket as to pre-decimals. If there's a single scratch in the field, dent on the rim or it's a weak strike or worn die then it's not GEM.
Quote from: 'Graham' pid='6434' dateline='1358298319'I have a GEM 1972 5 cent. What would I have to look for to grade it MS 65+?
Hi Graham
firstly, have a look at the PCGS population report for the 1972 5c piece.
http://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail.aspx?c=5073
As you can see there is almost 160 x 1972 5c pieces graded, and the range is centred on MS65/MS66. Most of these would be coins in / from full rolls sent in under bulk submission. There is an MS68 currently for sale on quicksales, but it is the top of the population so the price realised could be many hundreds of dollars. MS66's are around $50/$60.
Back to your question, what you would look for, to grade a coin MS65 or higher.
Firstly, I'd be looking at the coin under a nice bright light.
Look for full cartwheel lustre on the coin.
Next, look at the smoothness / reflectivity of the surface. A few non detracting small bag marks / flecks are fine across the legends / rims, but through the devices they would bring the grade of the coin down.
Smooth mirrored surfaces would definitely improve the grade, where as PVC impacted surface would bring the grade down (the coin may even get slabbed with a 'Details' grade)
Normally 5c pieces have minimal marks anyway, same as threepences which is why they grade rather well as PCGS.
Lastly, does the coin look good ?
If the coins exhibits the details above, it is well along the way to be an MS65.
I think one thing we probably need to be aware of when applying the 'Sheldon' grade, is that whilst you can generally put a guideline out to match the ANDA and Sheldon system next to each other, they use different aspects when the grade is determined and there will be exceptions.
Whenever I opened new roll of coins, if it had the slightest bagmark I chucked it. It was easy to do because I had so many rolls. That might suggest I have a huge quantity of MS65+ 5s, 10s, 20s and $1s in 2x2s.
I might retrieve them one day and have a look.
P.S. I found it difficult to find decent 5 cent pieces from rolls.
P.P.S. Out of a 1000 APEC $1s I found only 40 without any bagmarks.
Quote from: 'Graham' pid='6487' dateline='1358327053'Whenever I opened new roll of coins, if it had the slightest bagmark I chucked it. It was easy to do because I had so many rolls. That might suggest I have a huge quantity of MS65+ 5s, 10s, 20s and $1s in 2x2s.
I might retrieve them one day and have a look.
P.S. I found it difficult to find decent 5 cent pieces from rolls.
P.P.S. Out of a 1000 APEC $1s I found only 40 without any bagmarks.
If it helps at all, unless cherry picked, coins from modern Mint Sets these days are MS65 / MS66.
To get MS66 or better from a modern security roll is difficult due to the handling before they are rolled. Coins rolled at the mint were a lot better.
Quote from: 'Fr45h3R' pid='6495' dateline='1358331100'Quote from: 'Graham' pid='6487' dateline='1358327053'Whenever I opened new roll of coins, if it had the slightest bagmark I chucked it. It was easy to do because I had so many rolls. That might suggest I have a huge quantity of MS65+ 5s, 10s, 20s and $1s in 2x2s.
I might retrieve them one day and have a look.
P.S. I found it difficult to find decent 5 cent pieces from rolls.
P.P.S. Out of a 1000 APEC $1s I found only 40 without any bagmarks.
If it helps at all, unless cherry picked, coins from modern Mint Sets these days are MS65 / MS66.
To get MS66 or better from a modern security roll is difficult due to the handling before they are rolled. Coins rolled at the mint were a lot better.
Try opening the latest RAM rolls sold by the RAM. They are no better than the security rolls provided by Armaguard. In fact, I believe them and most of the other rubbish sold by the RAM to be low grade cr*p. Up until two years ago, I haunted the NAB looking for 'new' rolls. I would keep the head/tails and open all the others. While difficult to find CHU UNC, they were there. You simply had to open a lot of rolls.
I was always of the opinion that CHU and GEM had NO bag marks whatsover. Let me assure you that I was extremely tough on selecting coins to keep.
My major problem with the MS system is that there seems to be a LOT of latitude in grading. Opinions seem to vary greatly, with the final say being with an international grader.
For the RAM: - BRING BACK THE SPECIMEN WEDDING SETS. Then i'll know I have something decent.
The lament of the specimen collectors is heard far and wide
it has been the RAM's biggest ommission for specimen collectors
shame on the RAM for this
I too would like the specimen's back. Proofs are a different realm.