With such a vast array of different coins coming out of RAM over the last few years is has become increasingly difficult and mega expensive to be able to keep our decimal collections up to date.
The 5c and 10c sets are still an achievable goal, even with the many "Mint Set only" coins needed and the $2 set is still "Doable" But the other three denominations have become an absolute nightmare just to maintain a complete collection.
Can you imagine how difficult and expensive it would be for a new collector to put together a complete set of 25mm dollars or a set of 50c/20c coins nowadays.
Up until Mid 2015 I had every 25mm dollar coin minted by RAM excluding the Gold coins and was well on my way to having a complete set of the 50c coins as well.
A complete collection of 20c coins at this stage was still not an impossible task and is still an achievable albeit expensive goal .
The advent of the ABC dollar coins in 2015 was the trigger that made me reassess how and what Decimal coins I collected.
I threw the idea of having every single different coin in my collection out of the window and just concentrated on the coins that I personally found interesting or relevant for my collections and ignored the other issues.
Are there still collectors out there that continue buy every single offering from RAM regardless of its relevance just to maintain a "Complete " Set despite the costs involved ??
Didn't we decide long ago that Granny bait aren't real coins?
Yes, complete sets of CIRCULATING coins are doable.
No, NCLT sets aren't worth bothering with, because of the insane starting prices and the fact they lose rather than gain value.
I collect a uncirculated mint set every year and that is it for me these days.
The only other coin I try to keep up-to-date with is the 5 cent coin. Making sure I have a complete set when they are finally done away with!
QuoteNCLT sets aren't worth bothering with, because of the insane starting prices and the fact they lose rather than gain value
For many collectors (Myself included) collecting is Not all about the money and quite a few NCLT coins are considered by collectors to be very worthwhile and rewarding to collect.
Just because a coin isn't minted solely for the use in commerce doesn't necessarily condemn it to irrelevance and unworthy of collecting.
The problem that we have now though is that there are just too many NCLT coins being issued every year and the rate is increasing.
The days of just adding a handful of coins each year to your various decimal collections and keeping them up to date and complete are pretty much Long Gone :(
In theory it must be achievable, if money were no object but I don't think its worthwhile. The 5c and 10c are not on my radar since I don't buy any RAM products at all since 2013 but I do still collect what I find in my change. I did have the idea of completing my collection up to 2013 and drawing a line at that point. I only need a relatively small number of coins including the 2010 heritage set which is a rather large hurdle. Documenting and cataloguing what is required is an interesting task in and of itself.
QuoteJust because a coin isn't minted solely for the use in commerce doesn't necessarily condemn it to irrelevance and unworthy of collecting.
That's very true. Every rule has exceptions, including the "no Granny bait" rule.
QuoteNCLT sets aren't worth bothering with, because of the insane starting prices and the fact they lose rather than gain value.
QFT.
I still get the Mint and Proof sets every year plus the Baby sets if the coins are different, That isn't a huge ask and as most of the coins in the sets are the circulating designs for that particular year I can justify the purchases to myself :angel:
It is also the only way I can guarantee that I get the circulating design coins and that they "Should be" are in good condition.
I no longer worry about missing out on some new 50c or dollar coin just because it has been issued by RAM and I now judge everything on its merit and IF it fits in with what I want for my collection.
At the end of the day my collections will not be technically complete but I will be happy with what is in there. :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='102444' dateline='1481232714'At the end of the day my collections will not be technically complete but I will be happy with what is in there. :)
Me too, with my pre-decimal collection I know exactly what the goal is - 362 coins. I also know that there are 2 or 3 coins that will probably always be out of my reach but I'm content with that and I concentrate on what is possible. Low hanging fruit, so to speak. Today I'm heading over to Pacific Rim for a bit of numismatic bs and will definitely bring something back to add to the collection. That'll do me.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='102446' dateline='1481235423'Me too, with my pre-decimal collection I know exactly what the goal is - 362 coins. I also know that there are 2 or 3 coins that will probably always be out of my reach but I'm content with that and I concentrate on what is possible. Low hanging fruit, so to speak. Today I'm heading over to Pacific Rim for a bit of numismatic bs and will definitely bring something back to add to the collection. That'll do me.
Exactly my thoughts. I just don't want to feel like I am being held hostage by an open-ended collecting goal. I still get the occasional RAM coin if I like the design or theme. But I just don't like to be forced into get one of everything.
I am trying to reach higher than the low hanging fruit though. i.e. Spend the money on 1 or 2 key dates rather than having dozens of common ones. Downside is I have to settle for a sad looking registry set. :cray:
As I'm new to this I find this subject quite interesting.
At the moment I'm getting the proof and unc sets
Also trying to get the wedding and baby sets but turning out to be a bit expensive - may have to have a rethink
I'm on my way back in the train. Low hanging fruit when you are a bit of a giraffe can be expensive - 4 coins for a thousand bucks. A 1935 shilling, 1942 "sans I" penny, 1942 3D and a 1926 florin.
Getting a full set of decimal sets would certainly add up to a fair bit as well.
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='102450' dateline='1481239941'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='102446' dateline='1481235423'Me too, with my pre-decimal collection I know exactly what the goal is - 362 coins. I also know that there are 2 or 3 coins that will probably always be out of my reach but I'm content with that and I concentrate on what is possible. Low hanging fruit, so to speak. Today I'm heading over to Pacific Rim for a bit of numismatic bs and will definitely bring something back to add to the collection. That'll do me.
Exactly my thoughts. I just don't want to feel like I am being held hostage by an open-ended collecting goal. I still get the occasional RAM coin if I like the design or theme. But I just don't like to be forced into get one of everything.
I am trying to reach higher than the low hanging fruit though. i.e. Spend the money on 1 or 2 key dates rather than having dozens of common ones. Downside is I have to settle for a sad looking registry set. :cray:
Just trying for a decent pre decimal complete set (even without the 5-6 figure rarities) is a tough slog for most of us, but at least I know there are under 400 coins involved and I can enjoy it for life trying to upgrade. With the decimals though I won't even to begin to collect them because there are no limits. Proofs, show mint marks, privy marks, gold and silver versions, colourized, PNCs etc etc. I'm sure the mint has even considered variations on the ABC coins to appeal to overseas collectors with maybe Russian alphabet, Chinese Kangi and whatever grannybait privymark options to appeal at overseas coin fairs. Imagine if each of the 26 ABC coins was offered in "limited edition" privymark with each of the signs of the Chinese zodiac for Chinese New Year (hope I'm not giving the mint any ideas). Plus you cannot have a complete set unless you have a 1 ton gold coin and other jokes from the mint.
Trout,
I have been fortunate enough to be able to maintain a complete collection of all 50cent coins issued by both the RAM and Perth Mint, although at times it has been quite expensive with the gold sets and some of the lower mintage 1/2oz lunar coins.
The change of policy by the RAM to issue single denomination gold and silver proof coins in 2013 was a welcome decision, but then they changed back again for 2016, in my view, a poor marketing decision.
Not all NCLT coins fall in value - for example the 2008 Perth Mint 1/2oz proof Series 1 Lunar Mouse, of which there were only 277 minted, have sold at over $500 each, due to their rarity.
I suspect that over time many of the NCLT coins issued with limited/restricted mintages, will appreciate in value considerably, especially from overseas interests.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
A complete pre decimal set was pretty tough and expensive to complete 10-15 years ago, Now it is even more expensive and it would be rather scary for a novice collector to try and complete a set from scratch today.
This is why the majority of younger or newer collectors are focusing on the decimal sets because it is not anywhere near as expensive to compile a decimals set in high grades as it would be to do the same in the pre decimals.
Having a "Complete" set of decimals is probably not an option or even a desire anymore for collectors But a nice set of high grade decimal coins of your choice can be achieved without having to sell the farm so that some Fun can be had putting the collections together without breaking the bank :good:
QuoteI suspect that over time many of the NCLT coins issued with limited/restricted mintages, will appreciate in value considerably, especially from overseas interests.
:agreed:
The hard part is picking out which ones :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='102461' dateline='1481263039'The hard part is picking out which ones
And therein lies the problem.
You can stash away every shiny coin that crosses your path, every error, every UNC bag, and if they turn out to not all be million-dollar coins, its not a big deal. You (or more likely your heirs) can always spend 'em or bank 'em. All you've lost is the interest you didn't earn. Which is stuff all right now anyway.
BUT if you stash every bit of NCLT, and the majority go sour, you've blown 90% of what you 'invested', which you won't ever make back on the one or two winners.
Even those bags of Coronation $2's that turned green on me weren't a loss as such. They were still worth what they cost me. But if I'd paid $14 a coin for them, I'd still be in mourning.
The RAM needs to realise that while they snare a lot of neophytes with their rubbish, when these people wake up that they've been conned they're more likely to abandon the hobby entirely than they are to become more selective. And that does nobody any good. Including our heirs, who will need these people to be in the market when they go to sell our treasures.
Nobody with their head screwed on properly thinks that collecting coins is a wise or solid investment, I certainly don't.
It is a hobby or a pastime and there are associated cost involved just like any other hobby.
Unlike some other hobbies like fishing or hunting where at the end of the day your fishing or hunting gear is only worth a fraction of what you paid for it Coins CAN actually increase their worth But that is NOT guaranteed and in most cases this doesn't happen.
The only 25mm alum-br $1 coins that I DON"T have are the ABC coins for last year and this year.
I believe that I do have a complete set of 25mm $1 coins in my albums.
As I do the 5c, 10, 20c, 50c and $2 coins.
I don't go for any Perth Mint coins at all nor the gold coins.
Yes, it is getting a wee bit pricey but, I need those coins even though I am running out of storage space.
QuoteYes, it is getting a wee bit pricey but, I need those coins even though I am running out of storage space.
You don't NEED those coins Mate, The sky will not fall if you don't buy every single coin that RAM produces.
I used to feel exactly the same But since I cured myself of that particular OCD the freedom is amazing :dance2::)
The money that I would have spent on RAM frivolities over the last couple of years went toward quite a large collection of very high grade Maundy coins instead. :good:
I still buy from RAM but I am far more selective now, Unfortunately RAM did produce some exquisite and interesting coins and sets this year So it was still an expensive year regardless of me being selective :angel:
I'm nearly with Goldie there,
I believe I also had as near as possible to a complete set of 25mm dollars,
at least one of every MM, Privy, every show, every press, every which way but bloody loose. Except the ABC series of last year this year & those silly war animals .
One of every 5 cent, every ten cent, every 20 cent every 50 cent up until now, that's only cupro nickle not gold or silver or errors.
That is fifty years worth of coins a good point in which to nearly stop.
I will keep getting the five cents until they stop & anything I really like.
I do believe if you wanted to spend the money it would be possible at this stage to acquire a complete set of decimals, just by buying a complete set of the yearly uncirculated sets would give you a big leg up then it's just a matter of picking up the all the MM's etc etc etc.
Wouldn't like to do it but it could be done.
When the first set of ABC coins came out I had a good long hard think about what I was collecting and I realized that I had Many coins that I really didn't like that much.
I had bought these coins simply to keep the collection complete and had nothing whatsoever to do with enjoying collecting them.
Even though I No longer get every single mintmark, counterstamp or even new issues I still consider my collections "Complete" because I have all the coins that I have chosen to add to them :good:
Early on in the peace I set my sights on a full set of Halfpennies, Pennies and Florins, and tried not to go below VF for the harder/scarcer dates. I found as many might, some of these even in VF grade sure can be a strain on the pocket. Thankfully the other denominations didn't have any attraction.
Before too long the variety arm of collecting grabbed me, and I must say this has given me the most pleasure, the thrill of the hunt you might say especially in the early days of the internet when many sellers including shop front dealers weren't too savvy about information relating to varieties.
In the meantime a set of circulation decimals sounded a good idea, and it was fun sourcing all the various mint sets, including the Reserve Bank wallets, which still continues today but not for long. The ever expanding aluminium bronze dollars, including mint marks, privy marks and counterstamps also made it to the list, but I drew the line at all coloured offerings as well as the ABC stuff. I think some of the counterstamp dates will turn out to be good results for the Grand kids though.
Collect what pleases You, not what others think You should. After that it's all fun :)
Hi,
One point that keeps coming up in the above thread is what happens to the collection when you pass on?
Do your heirs gather up the collection and flog it on Ebay for whatever they can get, do they take it to a dealer and lose 50% or do they approach an auction house and lose even more of its intrinsic value?
One thing I have tried to do is educate my heirs to understand the true value of individual items in a collection.
The two heirs were born in 1978 and 1980.
So for their 30th birthdays I constructed albums each containing UNC notes with the signatories current in the year of their birth. (Knight/Wheeler & Knight/Stone)
Each denomination had several varieties, such as gothic or OCR-B, centre thread or side thread and DBP test notes.
The albums also indicated the retail value(s) of each note at the time of their birthdays in 2008 and 2010.
When they see the large differences in value between very subtle differences in the notes, it helps to focus their minds on the importance of looking at each part of the collection in isolation.
Has it worked? Not sure, but they certainly appreciate the value of the notes in their albums in comparison with their face value!!!!
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
This is why I focus on completed series, e.g. pre-decimals, Aussie gold, etc. It is very rare that dates get added to it (actually my half sovereign set was recently made incomplete by the reclassification of the 1855 Type II and 1893-M Old Head as business strikes but I'm not at the mercy of the mint pumping out more half sovereigns every year).
Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='104907' dateline='1486256225'This is why I focus on completed series, e.g. pre-decimals, Aussie gold, etc. It is very rare that dates get added to it (actually my half sovereign set was recently made incomplete by the reclassification of the 1855 Type II and 1893-M Old Head as business strikes but I'm not at the mercy of the mint pumping out more half sovereigns every year).
Reclassified by PCGS ?
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='104918' dateline='1486267264'Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='104907' dateline='1486256225'This is why I focus on completed series, e.g. pre-decimals, Aussie gold, etc. It is very rare that dates get added to it (actually my half sovereign set was recently made incomplete by the reclassification of the 1855 Type II and 1893-M Old Head as business strikes but I'm not at the mercy of the mint pumping out more half sovereigns every year).
Reclassified by PCGS ?
My 1855 Type II was slabbed as a business strike (it has residual cartwheel lustre in the legends unlike the proofs which have a cameo finish), PCGS hasn't slabbed any 1893-Ms yet.
I've always considered both business strikes, it makes sense, the survival rates for the 1855 Type I are about 1 in 400 so for 3 circulated examples of the Type II to have survived there must've been approximately 800 to 1200 issued before the die was overdated to 1857 (which is too high for a proof issue).
The 1893-M there are 6 surviving circulated examples, 5 in very low grade, one was slabbed by NGC as PF55 (so they consider it a proof). PCGS hasn't slabbed any yet. The survival rate of the era then is about 1 in 40 so for 6 business strikes to survive, a mintage of about 240 is implied (which would be too high for it to be a proof-only issue). The PF55 has some mirror reflectivity in the legends but no cameo which is often seen for the 1893-M full sovereign so I don't think that's any evidence of being a proof.
Woow what grade is your 1855 half sov?
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