Two things that made me see red today. Both evolved aroung circulation currency.
First. Went to Comm Bank with a bag full of coins that I took out a few days ago. There was $1,000 in the bag of three denominations. At the end, the coin count recorded/showed $996.55. Called the deputy manager over and she stated that "the coin coin ,machine does not make mistakes". I am now down $3.45 and that goes towards the $8.3B profit that the bank makes.
Second. Shopping at Woolworths, wife goes to pay for the goods and we notice new $2 coins, decimal anniversary, in the till. We were allowed to swap/buy them. Move across to the counter that sells smokes and asked if the till had the new coins. Out comes a $50.00 sealed bag of them. Tried to buy/swap and was told "no can do. We are not allowed to swap coins for coins".
I an really cheesed off at this.
The banks I have tried DO NOT receive bagged new coins.
Please tell me where else I can get them outside of EBay.
Argue the toss with both companies. They have complaints departments. Use them.
With CBA, explain that you are a collector, that you've been doing this for decades, and that you have systems in plac to guarantee your sacks are 100% accurate. Also explain that you have a spreadsheet of sacks sourced from these machines, and how many of them had errors (might want to leave out the ones that were massively in your favour though). If you get no satisfaction, threaten to go to the Ombudsman. Which charges the banks fees (up to $1,000 per incident) for every complaint they handle.
With Woolies, point out that these are NOT Olympic coins, and are NOT limited supply or part of an exclusive deal. Threaten to stop shopping at Woolies entirely, AND to spread your discontent to the tens of thousands of customers who are also coin collectors.
In both cases, the staff are ignorant, and overstepping the mark significantly. They need to be reined in.
FWIW, I once had a sealed Armaguard sack that was $8 short. Westpac replaced the missing coins, no questions asked, and commented that they are often shortchanged themselves. Machines are NOT infallible.
As for alternate sources, talk to Coles managers in your area. The coins for the self-serves come in bags, not rolls, and they are held in the office, not in the coin dispenser. Also talk to Bank of Melbourne, who are remarkably helpful (well, except for this one woman in Ashburton...). And go further afield, away from major shopping centres. The smaller branches are still easier to deal with.
:agreed:
I had a $200 50¢ bag from CBA here that was one ziplock short -they pack up sealed bags to return that way (don't know why as Armaguard would not be impressed).
I made up the number, after noodling, and reported it when I returned it. Manager made a note of that and, next time I went to the bank, she came up and handed me an envelope with my name on it. Inside was a $20 note.
Trust should be a two way street -if the banks want you to trust them (CEO of CBA says they want to be known as the ethical bank -long way to go yet) then they have to learn to trust regular customers.
Just my 2 cents and I'm not happy about the Olympic Woolworths distribution, but Woolworths pay Armaguard to take their cash and provide coins. It costs them money to do that. Why should they just give their coins to just anyone when they pay for the service? Now I know staff act differently depending on who you get and what store it is, that's the other issue.
Last thousand dollar bag from the bank was littered with foreign coins and a newspaper medallion. It's always under when you count it back in, a dollar or two here or there.
Another gripe, doing the BAS and checking the bank statements this week the CBA is now charging foreign currency transaction fees for AUD transactions if they occur out of the country. It's new they have never done that before. Just another way to gouge.
I think it is wrong to "Bully" the staff at woollies in order to get them to hand over their change.
They pay for the coinage to be delivered and I am pretty sure that they don't order in just to hand over to collectors :ok:
Loosing a couple of dollars to have the opportunity to noodle through a thousand dollars worth of coins is not that big a deal.
Just idling at the lights on the way to the Bank would probably cost more in fuel.
Most other banks would take your word for it and make up the difference, but according to other collectors, Comm Bank can be quite picky about these things. My advice would be to threaten to close your account with them, because they'll probably cough up the money then. If not, then I'm sure most other banks would treat you much better.
The reason Woollies wouldn't swap the coins is because you, presumably, were trying to replace them with a $50 note. Then, they would have to pay Armaguard to replace the coins you just took, which eats into their profit. My advice would be to ask them to replace the bag with 25 of your own $2 coins. Considering the amount of time it would take to count them, you might want to consider buying something expensive to thank them for their time and effort. I think a lot of the Woollies staff have been turned off swapping bags of coins because of the Olympic coin debacle, so you'll probably have better luck at Coles. My advice would be to try them instead. :)
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='100446' dateline='1477546578'"no can do. We are not allowed to swap coins for coins".
I think you guys are not reading what Goldy said.
Obviously a store isn't going to want to hand over their change. That's a given. Even though it doesn't actually cost them for the coins as such (they pay for deliveries and pickups, not by the coin/note), being without change is bad for business.
But refusing to swap like for like, as they've done to Goldy, and as they did to me with bags of 10¢ coins during the Olympic debacle, is sheer bloody-mindedness and a disregard for the customer. The sort of idiotic mindset you get from a parking attendant when you're 30 sec late back to your car and they start writing the ticket anyway. Definite grounds for removing your custom.
As for Coles, that won't work at the cash register because of those accursed Armaguard roll dispensers. You'd need to get chummy with the manager and convince him/her to let you swap for the bags in the office. Regardless though, do your shopping at Coles rather than Woolies. The only way to show displeasure that carries any weight is to deny them the pleasure of your purchases.
Oh, and another example of the different cultures....
During 'the hunt', I bought Soda Water at some stores to get around the "one per transaction" BS. And I had a dud bottle that was flat. Well, despite it being Woolies brand, they demanded a receipt before replacing it. Pain in the neck, as I had to go out to the car to get it.
The other day, I bought some Cos Lettuce at Coles, and when I was halfway through eating my sandwich, found this:
(http://i.imgur.com/FAsPBtI.jpg)
I took piccies, and when I was going past a store, asked to speak to the manager. Showed him the pics, and he apologised profusely, asked me to email them to him and return the empty package at my convenience. And then he handed me one of those big red tubs of chocolates that were on special for $12.50 instead of $25. So I got my Lettuce replaced, kept the original one (which I was really careful about washing), AND got a freebie gift to boot. You don't get that kind of service at Woolies, ever.
I bet they thought you needed the extra protein! :laugh2:
Do you want flies with that?
What a shame! Louie the fly actually died. It's taken Mortein almost 60 years to kill him, so I'm glad they finally succeeded. Let's hope he doesn't come back again as a zombie. :zomby:
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='100483' dateline='1477606229'Do you want flies with that?
NO! :P
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/scumbag-fly-meme.jpg)
Goldie talked about several of his successful visitsto the woolies checkouts for swapping coins for the olympic bagged $2 coin
so I reckon compared to most of us he has done very well with that one
and he probably just expected the checkout staff to do the same - swap for swap
but i bet that the staff have been told in no uncertain terms to cease giving out the bagged coins - full stop
regardless to the denomination, type
ebay & facebook are full of the selling of these bags
i think that you have to either be in business (grocery store, club etc) or in cahoots with the blackmarketing suppliers via the 'legal'coin distribution agencies etc as I suspect some of those facebook sellers are
the bank - no comment except i believe that every time i banked cash for our judo club accounts, it very often came up as less that the total that we had tallied as well
i think the counting machines aren't entirely accurate
Quotei think the counting machines aren't entirely accurate
maybe they have a built in fee deduction for their use :angel:
:laugh2: ..... McDuck ..... perhaps ... Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, flies, pickles, onions on a sesame seed pun?
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='100493' dateline='1477618232':laugh2: ..... McDuck ..... perhaps ... Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, flies, pickles, onions on a sesame seed pun?
:laughingneqw:
It could have been a lot worse Fulvio.
You could have found half a fly :taunt::laugh2:
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='100493' dateline='1477618232':laugh2: ..... McDuck ..... perhaps ... Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, flies, pickles, onions on a sesame seed pun?
I bet that is a specialty in some parts of the country. The best part is when you don't even notice the flies until it's too late. :)
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='100490' dateline='1477617172'but i bet that the staff have been told in no uncertain terms to cease giving out the bagged coins - full stop
In what possible reality does that make ANY sense whatsoever???????
They have NO authority to even try and police what people do or do not do with OUR circulating currency. Its money. If you want to swap a $50 for five $10's, they have no problem. If you want to swap a $10 for five $2's they have no problem. WHY THE HELL do they think they should refuse to swap 25 $2's for 25 $2's in a sealed bag???
The ebay/facebook thing is bullshit too. IF someone chooses to sell something THEY OWN, that's their business. Not the mint's, not the RBA's, not the bank's, and certainly NOT a grocer with a shitty attitude towards their customers. It has nothing whatsoever to do with them, and they should pull their heads in. :P
What's worse than finding a worm in your apple?
Finding half a worm. :diablo:
QuoteThey have NO authority to even try and police what people do or do not do with OUR circulating currency
It is not "Our" currency it is "Their" currency and Woolies can choose to do whatever they want with it :)
Not true. As a company, their only concern is the money they make. Not the form it takes. Whether I choose to pay by credit card or 5¢ pieces is none of their concern. Whether I get my change in notes or coins is also none of their concern. With the proviso of course that I don't leave them short for the next customer.
And these coins are not a product line either, which arguably the Olympic coins could have been construed to be.
I beg to differ. If they own the coins, they have the right to decide if, when and how they get rid of them.
Quote from: 'Hercules' pid='100501' dateline='1477620282'I beg to differ. If they own the coins, they have the right to decide if, when and how they get rid of them.
Uhhuh...
Well, I just put in a complaint, and I think this was telling:
"Would you pay a fee to do that?"And now we're really getting to the heart of the matter. This is all part of a scheme to effectively impose a new 'tax' on us.
At NO stage should the private sector EVER be allowed anywhere near certain areas of government services. Police. Fire. Ambulances. Currency. etc. Just look at the various debacles in government services which have been privatised. Every one of them has cost us dearly.
My only comment here is that if I was a shopkeeper and paid a security Company to deliver change to my shop, I would not be handing out the change by the bag to any customers. Staff are not being paid to indulge customers in this way, not part of their job.
I realize that Goldie wanted to swap coins for coins, and that should not have caused a great problem, if they were all the same denomination, but it is what it is.
Everyone who has a Bank account pays fees one way or another.
Noodling and exchanging coins at a bank is using their services and so far it has been free in most cases.
Most businesses that order coinage from the Bank incur fees for doing so, either directly or indirectly and to be quite honest I can't see why they should "indulge" collectors that go through thousands of dollars worth of coins a year and NOT charge them the same for that privilege.
Noodlers in Australia have had it pretty good so far without incurring fees in most cases So there is no point in grizzling about costs now .
Quote from: 'trout' pid='100511' dateline='1477622924'So there is no point in grizzling about costs now .
Of course there is.
The government has as one of its core functions the distribution of cash throughout the country. Treasury, RBA, RAM, NPA are all part of that. So are the security companies. And so are the banks and businesses they deliver to.
Nobody in that chain has ANY right to decide whether YOU get a given coin, not, bag or bundle, or whether it goes to Mrs Jones who'll give it to her toddler to swallow.
We all get it that businesses pay for their change. Or rather the deliveries of said change. And all of us I would hope have no desire to make life harder for those businesses. Heck, I'd be happy to take ALL my noodling rejects to a shop to save them the fees if they played along, rather than go to a bank to swap it.
But when they start implementing policies to refuse to swap like for like, then they're overstepping the mark, and need to be punished the only way that matters to them... in the cash register.
If Woolies or CBA want to be bastards about this, then they don't deserve my business, and they don't deserve yours either. Corporate australia, and especially CBA, have a long history of screwing their customers, and we need to fight back.
And never forget that it costs ten times more to replace a customer than keep one. Coles gets that. Woolies clearly don't.
Fulvio,
The staff are there (and paid) to do the functions that the company wants them to do.
Companies want staff to do things that "make profit".
Staff spending time swapping coins costs the company time/wages.
Some people seem to think they have a right to get staff to do whatever they want regarding coins.
I don't see it like that.
If I someone does swap coins for me, I see it as "they are doing me a favour" I ask nicely and am appreciative of any help I get. If they say no, that is disappointing, but fair enough. I don't think I have a right to them doing these things.
With an insignificantly low percentage of noodlers/collectors in the population I doubt very much that either Coles or Woolies are concerned about loosing their business in the least.
I imagine that the Banks feel the same way :angel:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='100519' dateline='1477624036'or whether it goes to Mrs Jones who'll give it to her toddler to swallow.
So that's where all those early 5c coins went! I always wondered what happened to them. :laugh2:
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='100521' dateline='1477624500'Fulvio,
The staff are there (and paid) to do the functions that the company wants them to do.
Companies want staff to do things that "make profit".
Staff spending time swapping coins costs the company time/wages.
Some people seem to think they have a right to get staff to do whatever they want regarding coins.
I don't see it like that.
If I someone does swap coins for me, I see it as "they are doing me a favour" I ask nicely and am appreciative of any help I get. If they say no, that is disappointing, but fair enough. I don't think I have a right to them doing these things.
well said
i agree 100%
I manage staff and if my staff are doing non core business activities - they get the chat - they are paid to perform core business activities and bottom line is that each year we calculate the levels of operational activity out to a fair degree in determining our service/staffing ratios -
i am sure those businesses are even tighter than when I work
as the years go by, the large department/grocery stores are becoming quasi - banks, post offices, pharmacies and fast food outlets
with fewer staff at the front end
to have staff standing around counting out change exchange would be in my opinion - non core business for a grocery store and I bet the Olympic coin exchange debacle has demonstrated a drop in productivity and a rise in damaged staff moral - most staff who I spoke to were totally peeved with the Olympic coin promotion
Quote from: 'Hercules' pid='100464' dateline='1477569459'The reason Woollies wouldn't swap the coins is because you, presumably, were trying to replace them with a $50 note.
We offered $50 in $2 coins as exchange and $30 in $2 coins and both were refused.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='100450' dateline='1477549794'With Woolies, point out that these are NOT Olympic coins, and are NOT limited supply or part of an exclusive deal.
I informed them that these $2 coins were not part of the Olympic coin distribution and they still said no.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='100525' dateline='1477626428'and I bet the Olympic coin exchange debacle has demonstrated a drop in productivity and a rise in damaged staff moral - most staff who I spoke to were totally peeved with the Olympic coin promotion
That's the impression I got. On the very first day of the promotion, they were quite happy to swap coins en masse, but as the promotion continued, they all got sick of it. Now, they're probably hoping that Woollies will never impose that sort of thing on them again, because it wasted so much time and effort on their part. Even some of the customers didn't like it, because they had to wait for people like me to get their coins. My advice would be to start shopping at the local IGA, because many of them are family owned and operated, so they'll be more obliged to help. :)
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='100526' dateline='1477627322'I informed them that these $2 coins were not part of the Olympic coin distribution and they still said no.
Once bitten, twice shy. :shy:
OK, I have visited m any baks in my area and have been informed the they, the banks, receive rolled coin only.
How the heck am I to try and secure a bag of coins then.
Further, when I was swapping coins at clubs/Crown Casino etc, several informed me that I should go to a bank and exchange coin. Now with pokie places using paper credits and not coins, I go to a bank and get ripped off and then when I complained, I was informed "maybe it's time to give up noodling".
I will be sending a letter to both the Comm Bank and Woollies re this matter and try and get some satisfaction all around.
Further, one rolled lot of 20c with armour guard wrapper was 20c down.
I am getting screwed all over the place.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='100525' dateline='1477626428'I manage staff and if my staff are doing non core business activities - they get the chat
Must be a fun place to work. :P
I had twelve staff in my shops. And I had over 600 contract interpreters as well. So I'm not just looking at this from a collector point of view.
There are lots of factors involved in making staff and customers happy, and the business successful. And culture is a massive component. Nobody wants to deal with a grumpy or abusive person, be they a boss, customer or staff member.
Being nice doesn't cost anything. There are people I will go out of my way to deal with, and there are those I will avoid at all costs. The businesses they work in benefit or lose as a result. And I'm not the only person in the world to think that way either...
Sure, us collectors are few and far between. But collectively, we are not the poorest sector at the bottom of the barrel. If we accept estimates of 10,000 'serious' collectors in Australia, and $74,724 pre-tax average income, we are a $750 million force, which IS worthy of some consideration. As for assets, there are plenty of million-dollar collections out there. So we're probably worth a couple of billion at least. Heck, Trout's worth that on his own! :angel:
Sure there are core activities. And sure there are also counterproductive activities as well. But ten seconds to swap 25 coins for a bag isn't counterproductive. Not when being an arse about it could cost you a $30,000 a year customer!
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='100529' dateline='1477627929'I am getting screwed all over the place.
Start carrying scales, and weigh every bag/roll. :angel:
You're right, of course. We're ALL getting screwed, every single day, by everybody and anybody. I just noticed that Optus is overcharging me massively for example, and that's about to be my project for the rest of the day.
But we're part of the problem too. As this discussion has showed, plenty of people seem to think that corporations WHICH ARE NOT REAL PEOPLE have more rights than flesh and blood people who are. Sorry, that's bullshit. A company is a fantasy constructed and inhabited by people. It HAS no rights, certainly not to seek rents on things people do, and to manipulate people in the process. The fact they get away with it is OUR fault, for allowing it.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='100529' dateline='1477627929'I was informed "maybe it's time to give up noodling".
:laughingneqw: Good luck to whoever thinks that!
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='100529' dateline='1477627929'Further, one rolled lot of 20c with armour guard wrapper was 20c down.
That's very unfortunate. I've done hundreds of Armaguard rolls, and only a very small percentage of them were actually missing coins. I even had one recently that had an extra coin in it (a 5c in a $2 roll). Anyway, I wouldn't even both making a complaint unless it was happening regularly.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='100532' dateline='1477628318'But ten seconds to swap 25 coins for a bag isn't counterproductive.
It takes longer than 10s, because they have to count the coins individually just to make sure you've got the right amount.
Quote from: 'Hercules' pid='100527' dateline='1477627663'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='100525' dateline='1477626428'. My advice would be to start shopping at the local IGA, because many of them are family owned and operated, so they'll be more obliged to help. :)
humm i go to the local IGA most of the time
the little blondie who has been there for YEARS turns her back on all of us customers as soon as we walk in or straight after she serves us
in fact my son refuses to shop there if she is on the checkout
people are people - woolies or IGA or coles
Quoteprobably worth a couple of billion at least. Heck, Trout's worth that on his own!
I wish Mate :angel:
I personally don't do much noodling because all the banks here seem to have is recirculated coins and NO new ones.
I usually get about $500 worth of coins from the Bank a couple of times a year and take the leftovers away with me to remote minesites that are always coin hungry and they really appreciate the change :)
If I was charged a few bucks to do this it wouldn't phase me at all given the fun I get from doing this every now and then :ok:
But for you Mob that are swapping out thousands at a time on a regular basis and expect the Banks to do this "gratis" is abusing the system don't you think??
News Flash guys.
The banks are Not set up purely for the benefit of collectors/noodlers, They are also Not a government department and are quite within their rights to dispense coinage as they see fit.
The same applies to Woollies, Coles etc. :ok:
Quote from: 'Hercules' pid='100537' dateline='1477629134'It takes longer than 10s, because they have to count the coins individually just to make sure you've got the right amount.
Only if you're a moron, like the one who opened a sealed Armaguard bag to count the coins.
The ones with brains weigh them. I deliberately stack the coins (five stacks of 5) on the scales. All you need to do is look at the weight... 165g. Sweep the coins off into your hand, use the other hand to drop the bag on the scales... 165g, Job done in FIVE seconds.
Oh wait... "The ones with brains"... DOH! :dodgy:
And RG, yes, people are people. But corporate culture determines who will and will not fit in with it. A crap culture attracts crap people.
And as for trout's 'News Flash'... just how big a deal do you think collectors ARE anyway? I'm arguably one of the more active noodlers, and at my PEAK, I was going through $10,000 a day. That's not even an accounting error in the big scheme of things. We're talking organisations that go through seriously massive amounts of currency every day, and keeping us happy would be incredibly trivial.
But for whatever reason, they've decided to be deliberately obstructive. And that warrants a boycott in return. Stuff 'em.
In my opinion any business whether it is a bank or supermarket shouldn't be required to provide a service free of charge.
A supermarket in particular should only have to provide the correct change for the purchase of items of their business. Why should they have to wear a cost for a service that isn't part of there business? In my opinion this is completely at the supermarket discretion if they swap coins. I wouldn't if it was my business but I'm glad when they do!
Banks in generally provide the coin swapping service as they make up costs on other charges for services they provide to businesses. I completely understand why they try to recover costs (and sometimes more). It's not that I don't work the system as best as I can to avoid fees and charges from the banks.
The world isn't free. We all want jobs and a strong economy etc etc and this comes at a cost. These are business and aren't here to supply free services for our hobby.
Quote from: 'b_j_w_79' pid='100546' dateline='1477641696'should be required to provide a service free of charge.
And yet you go on to contradict yourself. :dodgy: :angel: Hehe...
We're getting quite philosophical here, but lets think about what 'Free' really means, shall we?
Everything has value. Either monetary value, or sentimental value, or even environmental value, where, you know, it creates the conditions that keep us alive on this spinning rock in space. Value has been around since the big bang, even if we weren't here to witness it.
Prices are another matter entirely though. Those are strictly monetary, and generally boil down to someone picking up something for free, adding a little blood, sweat and tears to it, and charging like a wounded bull, because, you know, they can. Ah, the joys of free enterprise! Also note that the beneficiaries are almost never actual people, except by accident as sort of collateral effect. The beneficiaries are almost all entities which have only existed in relatively recent times, since corporate structures were invented.
And these entities LOVE charging rent. Because that's a guaranteed income stream that involves little if any work, and the profits are massive. Look around, and you will see our society is stacked to the rafters with rent-seekers of various ilk. And as a result, things which were always 'Free' suddenly become Paid services, whether its access to a given bit of geography, bottles of tap water, tolls, fees for letting you do just about anything, etc etc etc.
And then, when the right to charge rents is directly in opposition to the rights of the people, even to the point of causing actual bodily harm or loss of life, who wins? Surprise surprise, its not the people.
Have you all forgotten the many and varied scams and outright thefts perpetrated by all the banks? CBA cheated ITS OWN EMPLOYEES out of the insurance cover they thought they had. ANZ, CBA, NAB and probably WBC all cheated and manipulated rates, then did their best to cover it up. They've all failed to pass on interest rate cuts. They've forged customer signatures. They've sold grossly inappropriate services and reduced the wealth of their own clients quite deliberately in the name of profits.
And retailers are not much better. Do you realise they have a scam where they charge the SUPPLIER for all of their promotions and stuffups? They've been caught red handed. Coles did try and do the right thing and appointed Jeff Kennett to oversee their remediation efforts, but Woolies don't give a damn.
So tell me this... if a corporation is working against every other stakeholder, be it cheating on taxes, overcharging customers, intimidating suppliers, exploiting staff, putting competitors out of business and shortchanging shareholders, WHAT GIVES IT THE RIGHT TO EXIST? Society in no way benefits from their existence, in fact quite the contrary.
In my book, fair pay for fair service is not just for employees, its even more importantly for all corporations. And even governments. When somebody comes in here and says that I can't grow plant X because they own the patent on its genes, or when a government steals freeways WE ALREADY PAID FOR and hands them to a corporation to rent out for an indeterminate length of time, when some bastard puts a fence around a bit of pretty coastline and charges admission, or any of a thousand other ripoffs, that is not fair, and we should not support it.
In this discussion, both CBA and Woolies are doing the wrong thing. Regardless of what internal policies and decisions they may use to justify it, they have breached customer trust, and should pay the penalty by losing the support of their customers. There are other players in both spheres who can, and do, do a much better job. :P
PS: My stoush with Optus today resulted in an admission that they've been charging me for something that was included as a free component of the package we negotiated 12 months ago. They're now checking exactly how much they owe me. Want to bet they won't offer me interest on that amount? But they're happy to charge me $2.50 if they send me a paper bill. :dodgy:
QuoteAnd as for trout's 'News Flash'... just how big a deal do you think collectors ARE anyway?
In the Big picture we are but a speck on an elephants back. :)
As a recreational fisherman I have WAY more influence as a group than coin collectors ever will and I still have to pay exorbitant licence fees just to fish.
If you think that coin collectors can influence the way that the Government or private enterprise goes about their business Then you are unfortunately sadly mistaken :ok:
Of course I don't. But I take my simple pleasures where I can. And occasionally, very occasionally, I get to revel in the knowledge that the demise of some group of *I HAVE A POTTY MOUTH* or other was in some small part due to my unwillingness to play along with them.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='100554' dateline='1477654875'Of course I don't. But I take my simple pleasures where I can. And occasionally, very occasionally, I get to revel in the knowledge that the demise of some group of *I HAVE A POTTY MOUTH* or other was in some small part due to my unwillingness to play along with them.
I can relate to that :good::)
A companies SOLE reason to exist is to make a profit. How can they make a profit by swapping coins? They also run the risk that you might stiff them (such as putting foreign or counterfeit coins in the bags, or by putting in say a couple of dollar coins and taking out some $2 coins as the bags will weigh the same but be worth less). They do not exist to serve your needs or desires and they owe you nothing and can refuse to serve you if they want. Don't like it then set up a shop in competition.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='100549' dateline='1477644221'Quote from: 'b_j_w_79' pid='100546' dateline='1477641696'should be required to provide a service free of charge.
And yet you go on to contradict yourself. :dodgy: :angel: Hehe...
We're getting quite philosophical here, but lets think about what 'Free' really means, shall we?
Everything has value. Either monetary value, or sentimental value, or even environmental value, where, you know, it creates the conditions that keep us alive on this spinning rock in space. Value has been around since the big bang, even if we weren't here to witness it.
Prices are another matter entirely though. Those are strictly monetary, and generally boil down to someone picking up something for free, adding a little blood, sweat and tears to it, and charging like a wounded bull, because, you know, they can. Ah, the joys of free enterprise! Also note that the beneficiaries are almost never actual people, except by accident as sort of collateral effect. The beneficiaries are almost all entities which have only existed in relatively recent times, since corporate structures were invented.
And these entities LOVE charging rent. Because that's a guaranteed income stream that involves little if any work, and the profits are massive. Look around, and you will see our society is stacked to the rafters with rent-seekers of various ilk. And as a result, things which were always 'Free' suddenly become Paid services, whether its access to a given bit of geography, bottles of tap water, tolls, fees for letting you do just about anything, etc etc etc.
And then, when the right to charge rents is directly in opposition to the rights of the people, even to the point of causing actual bodily harm or loss of life, who wins? Surprise surprise, its not the people.
Have you all forgotten the many and varied scams and outright thefts perpetrated by all the banks? CBA cheated ITS OWN EMPLOYEES out of the insurance cover they thought they had. ANZ, CBA, NAB and probably WBC all cheated and manipulated rates, then did their best to cover it up. They've all failed to pass on interest rate cuts. They've forged customer signatures. They've sold grossly inappropriate services and reduced the wealth of their own clients quite deliberately in the name of profits.
And retailers are not much better. Do you realise they have a scam where they charge the SUPPLIER for all of their promotions and stuffups? They've been caught red handed. Coles did try and do the right thing and appointed Jeff Kennett to oversee their remediation efforts, but Woolies don't give a damn.
So tell me this... if a corporation is working against every other stakeholder, be it cheating on taxes, overcharging customers, intimidating suppliers, exploiting staff, putting competitors out of business and shortchanging shareholders, WHAT GIVES IT THE RIGHT TO EXIST? Society in no way benefits from their existence, in fact quite the contrary.
In my book, fair pay for fair service is not just for employees, its even more importantly for all corporations. And even governments. When somebody comes in here and says that I can't grow plant X because they own the patent on its genes, or when a government steals freeways WE ALREADY PAID FOR and hands them to a corporation to rent out for an indeterminate length of time, when some bastard puts a fence around a bit of pretty coastline and charges admission, or any of a thousand other ripoffs, that is not fair, and we should not support it.
In this discussion, both CBA and Woolies are doing the wrong thing. Regardless of what internal policies and decisions they may use to justify it, they have breached customer trust, and should pay the penalty by losing the support of their customers. There are other players in both spheres who can, and do, do a much better job. :P
PS: My stoush with Optus today resulted in an admission that they've been charging me for something that was included as a free component of the package we negotiated 12 months ago. They're now checking exactly how much they owe me. Want to bet they won't offer me interest on that amount? But they're happy to charge me $2.50 if they send me a paper bill. :dodgy:
It should have said shouldn't....sorry! (edited)
Try trimming attributions. Spamming a wall of text serves no purpose other than to increase the number of pages people need to wade through.
I think we should just end this conversation. No amount of reasoning is going to change Fulvio's mind, so why continue to debate him?
Quoteso why continue to debate him?
Because I can :):diablo::laugh2:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='100611' dateline='1477737364'Because I can :):diablo::laugh2:
And I can too!
I'll see your :diablo: and raise you two :mafia: :P
Oh, and one thing you should know about me, Herc...
Everything I think is based on reason. And if evidence to the contrary comes along, I'm quite happy to reverse course. I'm not one of these people with so much ego invested that they can't admit when they're proven wrong
(check my Facebook feed to meet more than a few such 'gentlemen' clutching desperately to thoroughly debunked bullshit such as 'chemtrails').
I find that all the complaints about shops not handing over their coins when asked/demanded and the odd loss of a few cents by noodlers when Banking somewhat annoying and petty.
Especially when the majority of the "Finds" are then sold to collectors at a profit.
For many noodlers it is somewhat of a small business enterprise and with any business there are costs involved, So suck in up Guys :ok:
As for this Bullying and intimidating the check out Chicks into handing over bagged or any other coins, I find this practice distasteful and in very poor form.
I think these people have quite enough to put up with during a days work and to have to put up with a belligerent and demanding coin collector is pretty much the last thing they need .
:agreed:
This thread is on notice to be closed. Please everyone can we mind the language in our posts. It's going to take me a week to edit everyone's swear words - just don't type them. And I mean that across the forum not just this thread.
PPH is nicer than I am. I will start handing out 24 hour posting bans to repeat offenders. You don't seem to realise you are using up OUR time to edit your posts because you cannot engage your brain before typing something.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='100631' dateline='1477778583'PPH is nicer than I am. I will start handing out 24 hour posting bans to repeat offenders. You don't seem to realise you are using up OUR time to edit your posts because you cannot engage your brain before typing something.
Maybe you could make use of the "Warning Level" Percentage that shows up when posting to a thread :angel:
Oh some people need a spanking. ;)