Have been checking out as many five cent coins as I could get my hands on for errors & varieties
now apart from this (http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/fivecent%202_zpsrcwhc6yz.jpg)
I have found on the 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, & 2012 reverse a peculiar WEB FEET as per what I have drawn on this scan
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/5cent-1_zpsqcv615ld.jpg)
My Problem is I can't get a good photo of it & I'm desperate to get it.
So I need help,
Is there somebody I could send one of these web footed Echidnas to & get a photo of?
now they are all the same no matter what year but not on all coins
so one photo would suffice.
HELP.......... I don't need it back as I have a few.
You have my address interest so if you like i'll have a go for you :good:
Just hold off for a bit before sending interest as I might be able to help with a bit of luck. Ok just had a quick look and found a few but my lighting is pretty crappy so I'll try and take a couple of better pic's tomorrow in the sunlight. One has a cud in the web and the other looks sort of like your drawing, hope they help mate :friends:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/vr4pcl.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/vr7n0m.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/32zknpl.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/28c2fs4.jpg)
Sorry about the crappy pic's :(
Gee it's hard trying to get a good image of these and no bloody sun doesn't help but hope these help ya interest :)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ibdg7p.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/261g4rn.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2dkn9j4.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/j6lppv.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/s1hqc4.jpg)
and here's a big pic :angel:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/5l2v5f.jpg)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='95100' dateline='1471645609'Gee it's hard trying to get a good image of these and no bloody sun doesn't help but hope these help ya interest
Pretty good, mate.
So, this adds a third level of relief, below the toe and nail. And its consistent enough to be a die variety.
But.. WHY? :dodgy:
Oh, and now I'm going to have to open those sacks of 2012's I have stashed. Curse you, Red Baron! :(
Blame interest as I was just helping out a mate :blush2:
Don't know why but it is sort of common as you can see, have fun with your search Fulvio :)
Here are my attempts to show the webbed claws on the 5c pieces.
I'm fairly sure I have them on all years from 2008 to 2015.
Another thing that seems to occur in tandem with the webbed claws is the outline between the spines on the Echidna's back. I mentioned this in 2012 & 2013, but no-one seemed very interested in it.
Images shown are 2009 with both web claw & outline and 1999 with no outline. The first year I noticed the outline was also 2008.
Curiously, some 2016 coins clearly have the spine outline, but only have the merest hint of the webbed claws.
5c 2009 Rev Web Claw Duo
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10007/5c_2009_Rev_Web_Claw_Duo.jpg)
5c 1999 - 2009 Outline Duo
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10007/5c_1999_-_2009_Outline_Duo.jpg)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='95100' dateline='1471645609'Gee it's hard trying to get a good image of these and no bloody sun doesn't help but hope these help ya interest :)
and here's a big pic :angel:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/5l2v5f.jpg)
That's the shot, thank you very much what years do you have?
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='95110' dateline='1471649226'Here are my attempts to show the webbed claws on the 5c pieces.
I'm fairly sure I have them on all years from 2008 to 2015.
Another thing that seems to occur in tandem with the webbed claws is the outline between the spines on the Echidna's back. I mentioned this in 2012 & 2013, but no-one seemed very interested in it.
Images shown are 2009 with both web claw & outline and 1999 with no outline. The first year I noticed the outline was also 2008.
Curiously, some 2016 coins clearly have the spine outline, but only have the merest hint of the webbed claws.
5c 1999 - 2009 Outline Duo
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10007/5c_1999_-_2009_Outline_Duo.jpg)
Yes the Spines I was going to get to them but I just wanted to clear the web foot up first.
Thanks for the photo, really shows the difference.
My pleasure mate :hi:
I found the same as Nevol and they pretty much start from 2008 on and the 2009 has the other funny marks.
Please feel free to pinch the pick if you like :friends:
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='95110' dateline='1471649226'Another thing that seems to occur in tandem with the webbed claws is the outline between the spines on the Echidna's back. I mentioned this in 2012 & 2013, but no-one seemed very interested in it.
I don't recall seeing that, sorry.
So, here's a hypothesis... What if they deliberately added some definition to the Echidna's body by adding that low relief behind the feet and spines?
If that's the case, then we could reasonably expect that the 'old' design would be gradually phased out as they used up die stocks and replaced them with the new ones, no?
Do the numbers confirm this? Low in 2008 and rising to 100% eventually? Anyone got some stats?
I have quite a few of these with a distinct funny mark down the left side and around the feet but I thought it was just cool doubling and they're pretty much all 2009, sorry for so many pic's.
:scratch_one-s_head: do you even look at your coins Fulvio :blink: :mocking: Happy hunting :angel:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/33kq4ah.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/w82pv9.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2gtb6u9.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2cgft3a.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2nlsqxz.jpg)
If it's not doubling it's some sort of fill :)
And not sure because of my poor memory but think I may have mentioned these ages ago as well but I am a sieve :winkextra:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='95137' dateline='1471655226'do you even look at your coins Fulvio
This is a bit of a sore point, actually.
I am incredibly cramped for space. Never mind the reasons, lets just say "Its not my fault".
So while I examine every coin that passes through my hands minutely (except for rolls/bags/sacks), what happens to them after that gets complicated.
Rejects are easy. I roll them up, mostly in recycled Armaguard bags.
Errors go in one pile. High-grade, rare, or otherwise 'interesting' normal coins go in another pile.
When the piles get wonky, I bag them up and/or throw them in tubs for future attention. When a stack of tubs gets a bit unstable, I try to find the energy and time to go through it and categorise things a bit. At this stage I likely roll up and label things, or bag/mount unique specimens.
Mounted coins go in albums. Rolls go into sacks, which go into milk crates, which go off to the vaults, likely never to be seen again.
Yes, its a mess. One which someone else can sort out once I'm gone.
:yahoo: I too use that excuse "it's not my fault :)
I know it's a bit of a sore point but doesn't your brother try and help you clean up :dodgy:
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='95110' dateline='1471649226'Another thing that seems to occur in tandem with the webbed claws is the outline between the spines on the Echidna's back. I mentioned this in 2012 & 2013, but no-one seemed very interested in it.
I think someone (echidna?) has noted this - the outline between the spines seems to be on the tiny SD coins only I think?
If it wasn't echi it might have been emu as he's written about the different sides SD's before.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='95146' dateline='1471656292'I know it's a bit of a sore point but doesn't your brother try and help you clean up :dodgy:
If he got anywhere near them, they'd all be cashed in at the nearest bank by now. There are fools, damned fools, and my brother in a category all his own. :dodgy:
maybe we should ask the man at the mint Dion how it happens
I'm sure he will tell us.
I swung by Woolies on the way home from the computer club, and liberated two mint bags of 2016 5ยข.
They're all the 'new' die.
So, anybody got a 2016 from the 'old' die?
Still a couple of months until I see any 2016 coins :dodgy:
Just been having a bit of a play with the Cud-O-Scope, and here are my three 2015's out of the current batch of 15 rolls (most common years are 2008, 2014, 2012, 2010 in that order, no 2016, 3x 2015).
What the images show is that
a) Lighting these is really hard. I had the scope turned down low, and a halogen lamp through a milk-bottle diffuser to try and get some relief.
b) Strike pressure is critical for the webbed feet to be discernible, but the body outline in the spines is always clearly visible.
The webbing is really low relief. If its a light strike, the edge definition becomes 'mushy' and more of a gradient than a step. This was particularly noticeable with the 2008's, which I had trouble telling apart from the old dies. So it looks like we should be looking at the top of the coin to identify the two varieties.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/160830.Coin.2015005.NewDie.usb/frame0.jpg)(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/160830.Coin.2015005.NewDie.usb/frame1.jpg)(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/160830.Coin.2015005.NewDie.usb/frame2.jpg)
Has anyone had a look at the 5c proofs to see if the webbing is on them, Or the Wedding set coins because the strike on the wedding set coins is probably the best there is on any decimal coin.
I would have a look myself but I am about 1000ks away from my coins at the moment :ok:
I don't have proof sets sorry but looked at my 2 x 08 and 2 x 09 wedding sets and they don't have any of these marks.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='96100' dateline='1472503862'I don't have proof sets sorry but looked at my 2 x 08 and 2 x 09 wedding sets and they don't have any of these marks.
That would stand to reason if they replaced dies as they wore out. Presumably the dies for the collector coins last longer. I'd be looking at mint sets as they're higher volume.
Nope none there either
Just checked my 2008's (yeah, I can't sleep.. meh).
Of 40 coins, all were the new die, with tiny SD. Half had clearly defined webbed feet, the other half had none or very faint, but all had the body clearly defined, indicating the new die.
Also, two errors showed up. A die clash which I'll post separately, and this, which I call 'Fat Side' because it has a massive blob on the field surrounding the spines. Don't know what could have caused it... its way too unusual to be a die break IMO, but what else could it be? :dodgy:
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/160902.2008.005.FatSide.usb/frame1.jpg)(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/160902.2008.005.FatSide.usb/frame3.jpg)(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/160902.2008.005.FatSide.usb/frame4.jpg)
:yahoo: your top pic is a 5 cent mule :blink: :laugh2: See I said you get mules on different denominations as well as years :D but shame they're not mules :(
On my post #10 on page 1 my photo's show that funny mark down the left side of the coin are lots better than your pic :P :mocking:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='96566' dateline='1472764673'On my post #10 on page 1 my photo's show that funny mark down the left side of the coin are lots better than your pic :P :mocking:
Oh... when I saw that I filed it away mentally as art of the die change. It was before I'd examined any of my coins you see.
So... what IS it? Not a fill, obviously, since it would have to be incused into the die. And I can't see it being a cud either. Just doesn't look at all right. :dodgy:
I've got it on at least one coin that I can remember, and I think the die has worn down, or the surface has started to peel.
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='96588' dateline='1472781261'or the surface has started to peel.
That could make sense. It kind of has that 'pre-cud' look when the surface bubbles before a die break.
Have we ever seen evidence of a cud in this area?
I have no idea what the go is with them but I put them in my "melt" pile where the coin looks like it's melted and they're like a sub branch of my cud pile. I also found the web feet from 2008 to 2013 and some have one and some have both feet webbed but I haven't got any 14,15 or 16's yet.
They can also go into the doubling pile as it also looks like some strange sort of doubling.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='96599' dateline='1472782959'some have one and some have both feet webbed
The webbing is highly dependent on strike pressure, and therefore not really significant.
What I want to know is, are there any of the old die after 2007? My former theory that they used them up and the incidence progressively decreased went out the window when ALL the 2008's I had turned out to be new dies at varying pressures.
If we can prove two different dies in the same year, we're onto something. If all we've got is minor strike variations, well... big deal, right?
Ok when I get some motivation I'll have a better look and see if there's anything like large and small SD's or anything else that stands out.
Slowly getting through these things... :)
After finding that all the 2008's I had were the new die, the 2009's are split 50/50 between old and new, with all the new die being light strikes with poorly defined webbed feet.
2010 are about 1/3 old die, 2/3 new die, well-struck with clear webs.
I'm now wondering about the earlier small SD dies. Does anyone have 2000/2002 coins they can check to see if the small SD's are old or new designs? I've never really been able to tell the small and tiny initials apart, so some guidance on that would be nice too. :)
I struggle to see the date on a 5c coin let alone see if it has webbed feet :cray:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='96689' dateline='1472812302'I struggle to see the date on a 5c coin let alone see if it has webbed feet :cray:
Which is why I have a microscope. :angel:
Speaking of which... Spoke to Kaiser-Baas yesterday. Their scopes were dropped a couple of years ago. :(
These are readily available and the cheapest one looks to be virtually the same as the K-B.
2MP USB Digital Microscope with 200x Zoom (http://www.jaycar.com.au/2mp-usb-digital-microscope-with-200x-zoom/p/QC3197)
5MP USB 2.0 Digital Microscope with Professional Stand (http://www.jaycar.com.au/5mp-usb-2-0-digital-microscope-with-professional-stand/p/QC3199)
2MP Wi-Fi Digital Microscope with Professional LED Backlit Stand (http://www.jaycar.com.au/2mp-wi-fi-digital-microscope-with-professional-led-backlit-stand/p/QC3752)
I have an account with Jaycar's wholesale division and can get these at less than retail price. If a few members are interested in buying one I would be happy to do a combined purchase.
Once postage is taken into account your cost would be around 25% under retail.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='96714' dateline='1472849148'If a few members are interested in buying one I would be happy to do a combined purchase.
I'm heading over to Phil's on Monday night
(he seldom logs in here... must fix that), and will take my KB to show him. Reckon he'd be in for one.
I could also possibly be interested in the 5MP as an upgrade from the KB. It would probably depend on the Mac software that comes with it.
QuoteIt would probably depend on the Mac software that comes with it.
You can download the software and user manual from the link I gave if you want to have a look at them. I would not be surprised if the software is compatible with KB so you could test run it first -at least for the 2MP version.
If any interest in purchases I will start a separate thread for that and offer the option for any Jaycar items (within reason) as I do get good pricing on the wholesale account.
Has anyone examined pre-2008 Tiny SD's yet?
My results so far:
2008 100% New Die, 50% Light strikes with weak or no webbing
2009 60% New, Light strikes, 40% Old die (Large SD)
2010 80% New, no Light, 20% Old
2011 100% New, 25% Light
2012 100% New, 50% Light
2013 100% New, no Light
2014 80% New, 60% Light, 20% Old
2015 100% New, no Light
Based on this small sample, it looks like the old dies were used in 2009, 2010, 2014, but the majority of coins from 2008 on are the new die. I don't have any pre-2008 Tiny SD to look at, nor any Proof or Mint Sets.
I'd happily call the Large SD/old die as the rarity in these years, which makes sense if the change was deliberate, which it appears to be.
But without knowing if the earlier die differences were just the initials or the body/feet, its hard to pin down the redesign's first appearance. :(
Good work Mate that would have been a marathon effort :good:
Now look at something Green and it will rest your eyes :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='97497' dateline='1473418415'Now look at something Green and it will rest your eyes :)
Actually, I was going to play some C&C: Generals. There's a fair bit of green in that... :dodgy:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='97497' dateline='1473418415'Good work Mate that would have been a marathon effort :good:
:i_agree:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='97497' dateline='1473418415'Now look at something Green and it will rest your eyes :)
Perhaps some "cushioned" coronations in LDPE bags? :mocking: (Sorry McDuck, just had to).
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='97498' dateline='1473418850'Quote from: 'trout' pid='97497' dateline='1473418415'Now look at something Green and it will rest your eyes :)
Actually, I was going to play some C&C: Generals. There's a fair bit of green in that... :dodgy:
Looking at something green actually does work if you have eye strain :ok:
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='97499' dateline='1473418972'(Sorry McDuck, just had to).
I thought of it before you did, but I figured if I left it out there, you couldn't resist. :diablo:
And yeah, I know about eyestrain... don't have any though, just a sore neck. :(
And he only just beat me to it.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='97494' dateline='1473417349'Has anyone examined pre-2008 Tiny SD's yet?
My results so far:
2008 100% New Die, 50% Light strikes with weak or no webbing
2009 60% New, Light strikes, 40% Old die (Large SD)
2010 80% New, no Light, 20% Old
2011 100% New, 25% Light
2012 100% New, 50% Light
2013 100% New, no Light
2014 80% New, 60% Light, 20% Old
2015 100% New, no Light
Based on this small sample, it looks like the old dies were used in 2009, 2010, 2014, but the majority of coins from 2008 on are the new die. I don't have any pre-2008 Tiny SD to look at, nor any Proof or Mint Sets.
I'd happily call the Large SD/old die as the rarity in these years, which makes sense if the change was deliberate, which it appears to be.
But without knowing if the earlier die differences were just the initials or the body/feet, its hard to pin down the redesign's first appearance. :(
http://www.thesandpit.net/index.php?option=five_cent_tiny_SD_reverse
I've collected my own statistics over the last little while and have found similar results, as has another member here. This has also been mentioned in footnotes in McDonalds for a few years now too.
I've got these from 2000:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10007/5c_2000_C9_12C_9_2_Rev_Med_Small_SD_Duo~0.jpg)
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='97530' dateline='1473459961'http://www.thesandpit.net/index.php?option=five_cent_tiny_SD_reverse
With no mention of the body/feet. While it stands to reason that there would not be two different tiny SD dies, positive confirmation would be good to have. As would stats for 2007... I've yet to see one of those.
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='97532' dateline='1473464223'I've got these from 2000:
And what about the body and feet?
QuoteAnd what about the body and feet?
Nah, I was concentrating on the SD at the time. I might see if I can find them, but don't hold your breath waiting.
Doing a MAJOR reorganization of my coins at present.
QuoteDoing a MAJOR reorganization of my coins at present.
Is that again or still? I seem to remember you saying that yonks ago.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='97542' dateline='1473471599'With no mention of the body/feet. While it stands to reason that there would not be two different tiny SD dies, positive confirmation would be good to have. As would stats for 2007... I've yet to see one of those.
I'm choosing to believe that the body outline and tiny SD are only found together (at least from 2007 onwards) - I doubt a second die would have been produced (or at least used for production).
I've found about 10% of 2007 coins have the tiny SD; I've seen other statistics say about 26% (regional variation I assume). In any case, the footnote in McDonalds and anecdotal evidence show the tiny SD is in the minority for 2007. I think there may have been discussions about this on Coin Community too.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='97558' dateline='1473477434'QuoteDoing a MAJOR reorganization of my coins at present.
Is that again or still? I seem to remember you saying that yonks ago.
Yep, still underway, it's a
HUGE job. I do get sidetracked every so often, but am trying to stay focused. :angel:
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='97560' dateline='1473478004'I doubt a second die would have been produced
Yeah, me too. But you never know with the RAM, so it pays to check.
And I'm amazed at those percentages. As I said, my score is nil.
We could always ask
Our Lady of Perpetual Reorganisations, Nancy. :angel:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='97562' dateline='1473480334'We could always ask Our Lady of Perpetual Reorganisations, Nancy. :angel:
OLoPR, I Like it! :good:
I copied this off Ebay & it looks like the 2016 proof also has the web foot. (see photo) how bout that.
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/s-l400_zpsldzrygch.jpg)
Sometimes the RAM images are not the same as the coins themselves :ok:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_5c_proof.jpg)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='97586' dateline='1473508218'Sometimes the RAM images are not the same as the coins themselves
Artwork never is. :dodgy:
Interesting that that actual coin appears to be a light strike with the poorly defined webbing.
I don't think it is a light strike, The frosting on modern proofs tend to weaken the detail where the frosting has been applied to the coin.
All the real life echidna's that I have seen in the wild don't have webbed feet anyway :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='97595' dateline='1473517927'All the real life echidna's that I have seen in the wild don't have webbed feet anyway :)
Probably just lightly-struck.. by a passing truck. ;)