here goes folks
i happened upon these little fellas today after seeing the no SD in another thread
not really knowing what they are i googled and found that the years 1966 , 1967 and 1981 seem to be the more likely years to find them
so i looked through my bags of one and two cent pieces that I have here and think I may have found 3 - one of each year and then a couple of wonky 'sd's
so here are my snaps - comments very very welcome
hope that i loaded my pics the right way
1966
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1966_two_cents_no_SD__28329_-_Copy.JPG)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1966_two_cents_no_SD__28129_-_Copy.JPG)
1967
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1967_two_cents_no_SD__28129_-_Copy.JPG)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1967_two_cents_no_SD__28229_-_Copy.JPG)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1967_2_cents_no_SD_-_Copy.JPG)
1981
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1981_two_cents_no_SD__28129_-_Copy.JPG)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1981_two_cents_no_SD__28229_-_Copy.JPG)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1981_two_cents_no_SD__28329_-_Copy.JPG)
WONKY SD 1981
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1981_two_cents_partial_SD__28129_-_Copy.JPG)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1981_two_cents_partial_SD__28229_-_Copy.JPG)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1981_two_cents_partial_SD__28329_-_Copy.JPG)
I can see remnants of the SD in all of them so I would say no.
I have previously read an article where a couple of coin dealers did some reaserch on the no SD and concluded that the SD was vulnerable to break down and when it started to break up the mint operator would grind the remainder of the SD away to extend the life of the die a little.
I always considered this a reasonable explanation give the number of partially broken down sd's I have seen. What I don't understand is why it seems to only occur on the 66,67,68 and 81?
They look the goods to me RG.
Gee I like the doubling on the reverse of the no SD 1981! :good:
I also think blue sheet is way off on values for some reason Walter thinks the 81 is rarer and worth more than the 67 when the population report on this coin would say otherwise and the common sense consideration that there are way way more 1981 2 cent rolls unopened that could contain ms no SD's than 1967 rolls
here's an MS 63 RB no SD that is on ebay
i reckon i can see some semblance of the S on that coin
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1966_no_sd_2_cents_pcgs.jpg)
Gee I think I should have gone to specsavers!!! Now that Serial has mentioned it, I can see a partial SD ...... bugga!
(I still love the doubling RG!!!).
yes i saw the doubling clear as day - no spec savers needed
I agree, that's not a no SD in my opinion
this one appears to have no SD whatsoever (or does it?)
1966 NO SD 2c TWO CENT - PCGS GRADED MS62BN
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1966_no_sd_two_cents_2.jpg)
Quote from: 'serial' pid='95031' dateline='1471596805'the SD was vulnerable to break down and when it started to break up the mint operator would grind the remainder of the SD away to extend the life of the die a little.
I'm having trouble with this. The SD is incuse? so to grind away any evidence of it, wouldn't this result in a large raised area in the field of the coin where the SD should be?
Yep I get it, you're obviously talking about the master die, or is that hobbing die?
Geez, I'd like my loupe for those. I can see a faint S on both the PCGS coins. (Well I think I can ..... )
they are great photos and thanks to the seller for having the pics in the listing as I will save them for my reference library
i think Eric has one up as well - sold
here's the link
http://www.drakesterling.com/sold-coins/products/1968-two-cent-without-sd-initials
I think it is really interesting
I hope that i have it right
when I saw those photos I figured two of mine have absolutely no trace of the SD under my X 10 loupe
i showed my son the PCGS pic (ms64) and he said straight away that he could see an S (after I showed him one of my 2 c with the SD of course
so they may accept an almost filled die situation
my wonky ones look as if the SD was breaking away rather then die filling (IMHO)
The thing I like about your coins RG is that they all display strong back feet and toes. Many no SD's suffer from weakness in this area IMHO. So if they do turn out to be the real deal, I reckon they're rippers :yahoo:
thanks auto
i just looked through mine out of interest
maybe it is my usual overactive imagination at work here
i think the hubby is catching up with our coin dealer soon, so I will send up yet another lot of coin/s of interest for his expert opinion
my last one was a decimal as well
he will worry that I am crossing the floor from pre-decs!! ha ha
i found one other one on ebay but the photos were blurry so no technical use for us
Nice looking coins RG :good: Be interesting to see what your dealer mate says.
I've found the little dremel does a good job removing the SD so I now have a complete set :mocking: Nah just joking, I really can't help myself sometimes..ok ok most of the time :)
do they look ridgy didg to you mate?
1st and 2nd look like they might be but hard to tell as you need a good closeup of the area. Some of the others look like there's a faint trace but I'd want to see them in hand to give a definite yes or no sorry.
its a pcgs secure pic so its not the best in the world but I hope it helps, this is the current single finest no sd 67
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/67_no_sd.jpg)
PCGS pic's are ok except for when you want to look for fine details like what we're talking about. Is it yours serial??
beautiful coin serial
sd or no sd!! almost perfect
yes its mine
ms65rd
Well done, it's very nice mate :good:
this is a better pic to see where the sd should be one of my ms64rd's
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/67_no_sd_ms64rd.jpg)
where's the sd?
I can't see it
oh boy i feel like a total beginner
That's the point RG, your not meant to see the SD :)
oh duh
decimal nuptie here
i took some more pics with my magnifier too
well why is that MS63 BN Two cents no sd the single finest then if Serial has a MS 67 and ms64 rd ??
All good mate :friends:
Quote from: 'serial' pid='95031' dateline='1471596805'concluded that the SD was vulnerable to break down and when it started to break up the mint operator would grind the remainder of the SD away to extend the life of the die a little.
Sorry, I'm going to call bullshit on this one too.
Given that the initials are raised on the coin, the die would have to be filled, not ground. Sure, they could do it to a hob, but why would they? Its not like they make a million dies from it, so the wear and tear should not be excessive. And anyway, if the hob is damaged, just make another, right?
I put this squarely in the same category as the missing leg $1. Two different errors, one being a die fill, the other being a die variety for whatever reason, producing two similar but different results.
Call bullshit, until I find the article again I can't prove either way. If I find it I will post it in the mean time believe what you want, I for 1 am not convinced 100% either way how it happens it just seemed like the most plausible explanation at the time. But I do know , from experience, what a proper no SD looks like and most of the ones listed in page one are not no sd's
and I call bullshit on your missing leg $1 being anything other than a weak strike or filled die
its not a die variety no matter how much you hope it is
or have you got an article on the subject to prove your position?
Did Fulvio say the missing leg is a die variety? I think not. He just confused the issue by the way he phrased his comment.
i love a challenge and tried playing around with my crappy camera on the "to SD or No SD" two cents pieces
this is a close up of the 1981 reduced to 1200 mpixill thingees
i can see those lines on the surface, not unlike the 'flashing' that we are talking about in the other thread - or once again it is a case of my over active imagination - which is a strong possibility - hope it shows up at your view
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/P8190234_-_Copy_28229.JPG)
Quote from: 'serial' pid='95109' dateline='1471648630'or have you got an article on the subject to prove your position?
What does an article prove anyway? Any of us could write one and get it published. Does that make it any more meaningful than the same thing said here?
For the record, I'm not of the opinion that either the missing leg OR the missing SD are die varieties. I think they're both fills. But IF one is indeed a variety, then the other may also be, because they both exhibit the same characteristics.
Characteristics which are different to a light strike, which is a whole other kettle of fish. And yes, most ARE light strikes, and clearly identifiable as such.
1967 under the 10 loupe with the lens on the loupe!! ha ha
looks like die fill to me on this one
if these aren't a missing SD then I'm totally stumped on this error !
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/P8190247_-_Copy.JPG)
1966
close up
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/P8190228_-_Copy.JPG)
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95116' dateline='1471651178'i can see those lines on the surface
Indeed, those are cleaning scratches.
And based on that, I'll withdraw my objection to this being a die variety, since they could not be present across a fill.
Just for reference, in case anyone doesn't have a coin handy, here's a normal one:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ngccoin-production/world-coin-price-guide/116122b.jpg)
yes but Fulvio (and thanks for SD pic as well -nice coin - looks like a 1969)
Serial reckons my coins aren't no SD
do you reckon that 1981 at the least is a no SD
or am I really living in a spaceship from Venus?
it's doing my logical brain in here!!
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95126' dateline='1471652552'Serial reckons my coins aren't no SD
do you reckon that 1981 at the least is a no SD
As I see it, the question of whether its a die variety or a fill error is irrelevant, because it would affect the entire population.
What IS relevant is whether its a variety/fill or a light strike. If its a light strike, it will be obvious in other areas of the coin where detail will be faint or missing.
I think that last pic shows a weak foot, so he's probably right. How important the distinction is though.. that's anyone's guess. :angel:
I only have a couple and if you look really closely :angel:
(http://i65.tinypic.com/209htns.jpg)
:mocking: sorry I really couldn't help that one :) Ok mine aren't anywhere near as nice as other that have been posted but here's mine, think I only have two and they're both 67 and not that crash hot but they are what they are :winkextra:
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2lloxns.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/ipbiud.jpg)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='95133' dateline='1471654449'I only have two
Two more than I've got. ;)
I except all sorts of payment :blush2: :laugh2:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='95142' dateline='1471655858'I except all sorts of payment
No you don't. I've been trying to pay you for that last coin for a year now, and you've refused everything I came up with.
You're a bloody fussy prima donna, AJ. :diablo: ;)
:laugh2: well that's sort of true :blush2:
:laugh2: .... Love that first photo AJ!
Cool, it was as clear as mud Uni :angel:
:dodgy: I haven't heard you mention a "kidney" yet Fulvio :mocking: and I know you have a spare :zomby: :angel:
thanks AJ
so are these little guys worth a bomb?
or is it just if they are in a pcgs holder and on ebay?
like are they really worth $3 k ????
Serials ones must be worth thousands $$$ more as they are reds and high grades
have I ignored my crummy little one and two cents by paying all my attention to my precious 1964 pennies??
aww but they are pretty
although these 1 & 2 cents can be found in glorious colours at times
ha ha
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95157' dateline='1471657830'so are these little guys worth a bomb?
(http://i.imgur.com/s4dTtBy.jpg)
Like everything else, they're worth what someone will pay. :angel:
I was sussin feebay last night and noticed Chris has some but one is 1968
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1967-1968-2c-No-SD-Variety-VF-/201486434151?hash=item2ee986ff67:g:RvUAAOSw5IJWciKZ
and just looking now and found this 67
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1967-Australian-2-cent-piece-with-no-S-D-error-rare-Lot-111-/122070327026?hash=item1c6bf55ef2:g:FjUAAOSwJqpXoNxH
and there's a few slabs for sale and yes they're :swoon:
So maybe you should pay your humble little 2 cent a bit more attention :winkextra:
This is out of my price range but a few nice errors, clips etc
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-1-Cent-2-cent-Error-Coin-Clip-Error-Misstrike-Fade-SD-etc-/182198148738?hash=item2a6bdb1e82:g:pqQAAOSwvg9Xfl3X
Here's some slabs.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1967-Australia-2-cent-coin-Without-SD-Sans-SD-PCGS-Graded-MS-63-RD-RARE-/222202120801?hash=item33bc474a61:g:vogAAOSwo6lWQKHg
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1981-Australian-2-cent-piece-with-no-S-D-PCGS-MS-62RB-rare-/122092008252?hash=item1c6d40333c:g:kRAAAOSwHoFXtqsH
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AUSTRALIA-SCARCE-1966-NO-SD-2c-TWO-CENT-PCGS-GRADED-MS62BN-/302025441428?hash=item46521e8094:g:NJ8AAOSwdzVXmL8q
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AUSTRALIA-SCARCE-1966-NO-SD-2c-TWO-CENT-PCGS-GRADED-MS63BN-SINGLE-FINEST-/302038000275?hash=item4652de2293:g:JFIAAOSw9NdXqvQN
wow thanks mate
obviously very special in the high grades
mine probably aren't MS but they certainly aren't low grade either
appreciated
what an interesting coin issue
no SD update
i took my little babies to my coin dealer who has far more expertise in the decimals than myself
the verdict
the first 3 are all most definitely no SD's yippie
and my last two (81 and 66) - I only pictured the 81 here) he agreed with me that they were lovely examples of the die fill
he suspected that die fill lead to the no SD and not omission
he also did not get the 'who-ha' about the error but accepted that since the 'discovery' some error collectors just love ém
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='97129' dateline='1473146133'they were lovely examples of the die fill
he suspected that die fill lead to the no SD and not omission
Yeah, maybe. Same as the 3-legged roo. It can be a tough call whether its a fill, light strike or a die variety. Especially when you have 2 out of 3.
at least with these examples one can see the SD diminish whereas the missing leg it doesn't seem to have shown up in progressive reduction of the impression of the leg, so there's no evidence that indicates that it was progressive die fill - yet!
I'll have to find my 3 leg roo's as some you can see a faint leg and others there's no leg.
Take a pic then
What's it worth to ya :mocking:
I'll suss them out tomorrow so I have some sunlight, a bit dark here ATM sorry :blink:
worth zip to me
as I am convinced it is an omission and not die fill
but it's Fulvio who is committed to the die fill theory
What's a zip worth these days :scratch_one-s_head:
Have to be worth at least a shekel wouldn't it :)
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='97173' dateline='1473164020'but it's Fulvio who is committed to the die fill theory
The reason is that I simply cannot see anyone forgetting to carve a leg into a die. Initials are one thing... tiny and easily missed. But losing a leg would be noticed.
Plus, depending on the fill material, it could easily be that localised, AND completely obliterate the detail. We've seen it on plenty of other coins, notably missing letters and dates on various obverses.
Oh, and as for AJ's faint legs, they'll be light strikes same as mine, with other weak areas of the coin.
I started a new thread for the three leg roo
https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=4653
thanks AJ
wanna buy 3 no SD's for say ........ 2 grand ha ha
think they are too scungy for pcgs
:laugh2: trade for a kidney :blink:
I wish I had 2 grand :( wanna lend me some money :)
ha ha
doing OK for kidneys - i have a medical condition where i actually have a significantly more than the usual human so i'm no good for trade or sale offers!!
anyways back to coins, i have had these coins for years and not sure if i ever looked for the no SD
tried to figure out the whiskers stuff
reckon i have sold or given away to collector friends quite a few more as well (unknown to me that they were no SD's)
in fact i was going to chuck them on ebay for a few dollars - have sold some years ago for ooh about $2.50 for a bulk lot
one reason why it pays to keep stuff for millions of years and go back through them
i find more errors every time i go back through my pennies
it seems never ending at times
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='97211' dateline='1473215418'one reason why it pays to keep stuff for millions of years and go back through them
Welcome to my money bin. ;)
I've got 1 (or maybe even 2) bank bags full of loose 1 & 2 c coins. Am I going to be searching them any time soon. Nuh!
Look at your coin books RG they should have all about the 1 & 2 cents and what to look for like the blunt whiskers and blunt toe's :good:
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='97216' dateline='1473217299'I've got 1 (or maybe even 2) bank bags full of loose 1 & 2 c coins. Am I going to be searching them any time soon. Nuh!
Hehe.. on the way to Phil's I picked up a couple of kilos of copper. Figured we could noodle it.
He poked and prodded it through the plastic, then put it back in the sack and its now sitting on the floor here.
IF I get at all motivated, I'll pick out the cancerous growths and quarantine them, but as for searching.... highly unlikely. :(
I'll happily sort all coins donated to me :blush2: All these coins that need a loving home but noooo, people prefer to just leave them buried somewhere in a smelly old bag where they can't breath..poor little coins :(
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='97233' dateline='1473229710'I'll happily sort all coins donated to me
Sure thing. Of course, in keeping with RAM policy, a $10 postage charge will apply to each 5-coin baggie. Limit one per order. ;)
Typical of the charity providers of today, you forgot admin fees :(
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='97216' dateline='1473217299'I've got 1 (or maybe even 2) bank bags full of loose 1 & 2 c coins. Am I going to be searching them any time soon. Nuh!
wow Nevol
have a looksee
i only have about 1 or 2 kilos, let alone bank bags of the things!
got those little fellas from them
have a few 1968 2 cents as well
have sold a couple but got very little for them mind you
The RAM on my latest order had a limit of one item per order and $10 flat postage charge. Previous order no limit on number of items and still $10 postage. Smallest bag was ten coins and all bags were priced at face value.
So I would be happy to order bags of ten of each year of 1¢ and 2¢ coins -face value plus $10 postage and especially as "I'll pick out the cancerous growths and quarantine them".
I can't find an order form and I suspect payment will only be accepted in some crypto-currency I have never heard of.
Maybe you are getting ready to roll them and attach holographic stickers. If so I must wait for your pre-sales advertising.
P.S. Did you mention recently you need the usual help with your crypto claims sometime soon?
It was 5 coins per bag Jeff so $10 post for either 5 or 10 cents is a bit rich but then that's how McDuck got to where he is :winkextra:
And yes he did say he was going away and needed help, so maybe a small surcharge is in order..say a bank bag of 1 & 2 cent pieces :D
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='97240' dateline='1473232551'Did you mention recently you need the usual help with your crypto claims sometime soon?
Indeed. Off to SW NSW for a week-ish, starting around the 22nd or so. I was going to ask nicely once I have confirmation of firm dates.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='97241' dateline='1473233042'that's how McDuck got to where he is :winkextra:
They don't pay me the big bucks for nothin', boyo! :)
Hey, since I'll be halfway there, should I stretch it to a visit up your way? Or would being gone for a month mess up my world domination plans too much? :angel:
Quoteworld domination plans
For that you need a really good assistant to do all the dirty work and you can appear squeaky clean.
Consider it a recruitment exercise for a potentially very good applicant.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='97248' dateline='1473235211'Indeed. Off to SW NSW for a week-ish, starting around the 22nd or so. I was going to ask nicely once I have confirmation of firm dates.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='97241' dateline='1473233042'that's how McDuck got to where he is :winkextra:
They don't pay me the big bucks for nothin', boyo! :)
Hey, since I'll be halfway there, should I stretch it to a visit up your way? Or would being gone for a month mess up my world domination plans too much? :angel:
Gee I don't know if they'll let the likes of you in Fulvio as we already have quite a few criminals :angel: and most are in parliament :dodgy: Didn't they kick you out once before and told you never to come back :mocking:
I wanna know who's paying you and for what :shock:
Was that my way or Jeff's way as my way is a LOT further but you know your always welcome :friends:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='97256' dateline='1473238312'I wanna know who's paying you and for what
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. :mafia:
IF I get motivated enough to do it at all, then my natural inertia kicks in. Once moving, I kinda don't stop. That's how a trip from Swan Hill to Mildura turned into two months in outback South Australia. ;)
:laugh2: so you might not stop here and end up at cairns :shock:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='97269' dateline='1473244371':laugh2: so you might not stop here and end up at cairns :shock:
I did that once. Trip was originally to Brissy, and a month later I was in Cairns.
It was for work too... :dodgy:
:off_topic:
you guys are as bad as me!!!
As these no SD coins are not yet included in the set registry there hasn't been that much interest in the past to have them graded.
Most of the Uncirculated coins graded by PCGS are relatively recent additions and the first of these to be graded and sold attracted pretty good money.
Because eventually they will probably be included in the registry sets.
The same applies to these as any other graded coin where the more coins that are graded the values will diminish accordingly :ok:
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='97273' dateline='1473252512':off_topic:
you guys are as bad as me!!!
I'm sorry RG, I wanna be good :angel: but it's that bloody Fulvio leading me astray all the time..he's bad news and always getting me in trouble :dodgy:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='97279' dateline='1473253519'As these no SD coins are not yet included in the set registry there hasn't been that much interest in the past to have them graded.
Most of the Uncirculated coins graded by PCGS are relatively recent additions and the first of these to be graded and sold attracted pretty good money.
Because eventually they will probably be included in the registry sets.
The same applies to these as any other graded coin where the more coins that are graded the values will diminish accordingly :ok:
So if you have them get in and get them graded and sell them quick smart :angel: