Just completed my census return on line. Relatively simple process -much more straightforward than on line form submission for other Government entities.
Now the Government knows no more about us than they did before -we have already been through several Centrelink interviews which are much more intrusive.
I answered honestly but I wonder how many forms are actually filled in correctly.
Yeah...just did mine as well......not overly hard to do.
Did not ask any questions about coin collecting though....:yahoo:
Quote from: 'humpybong' pid='93968' dateline='1470726433'Yeah...just did mine as well......not overly hard to do.
Did not ask any questions about coin collecting though....:yahoo:
Did you not put down Numismatist as occupation?
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11067/census.jpg)
Music to wait to ........ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk6kvVGPURA)
Yeah website crashed.Those that have not completed the census prepare to be fined
I did it the old school way and filled out the paper form :good:
I am pretty sure that you won't get fined because there site has crashed and burned and you couldn't log on :)
From my understanding, if they haven't received your submission (paper or electronic) after a couple of weeks a census person will knock on your door to ask why. (Of course the dog/unicorn ate the form and it is now either poop or skittles). I believe you have until Sept 23 to get it done and only those people who outright refuse to fill it in will be fined. From what I've read some people haven't even got their forms yet.
I must admit I thought it was a brave (or poorly informed) rep that went on the news saying their systems would cope today.
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='93988' dateline='1470739858'Yeah website crashed.Those that have not completed the census prepare to be fined
I've done one in the past 25 years, they were hopeless in getting the form to everyone in the past (like me) and I wonder how on earth they expect to get the millions without a home computer to do this tonight.
Not a chance I'll do it online as there are too many cases of hackers getting into systems (like every personnel file of US.gov employees was downloaded by the Chinese last year and that included the armed forces, or Hillarys 33,000 missing emails that included many rated above Top Secret that the Russians now have).
And there is nothing stopping the Australian Bureau of Statistics selling your census details to anyone to add to the 41 million they made selling info last year (yes they claim there are laws against releasing confidential info but laws or their application can change overnight as has happened many times before).
You wont get a fine if you dont do not do it today.. they give you a few days... Do it tomorrow.. We did ours before it all went belly up.
Timed out for us and can't get back in.
Have to finish it later I guess. :)
Wouldn't like to be in the shoes of those lucky people who tested the Census system right now. :blackeye:
Pedro
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='93991' dateline='1470740964'I've read some people haven't even got their forms yet.
Form? What Form?
Oh, you mean the one they said would be here in 5 days, 8 days ago?
As for providing full and truthful answers, they screwed that up when they demanded names for absolutely no reason other than because they could. Governments can't be trusted, and in case people forgot, both Germany and the US used census data to persecute their own populations. Don't say it can't happen here. This mob have a history that says they very well could do the same.
You have more than a month leeway to complete the form before getting a fine.
I remember thinking when I saw a guy from the ABS on TV yesterday repeatedly say they had tested the severs and nothing would go wrong, that you cannot possibly test for a million hits per hour.
If I heard that minister responsible say that the ABS has never had a security breach once, I must have heard him say it twenty times. That's like the guy playing Russian Roulette saying before each round, I haven't lost yet!
Another line I heard trotted out more than once was that ABS legislation prevents them from handing over the data to government and yet that is the whole point of the exercise, to gather a massive database and disseminate it.
Despite all of that the Census itself is not the problem.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='94011' dateline='1470754379'Despite all of that the Census itself is not the problem.
Tools never are. Its the idiots driving them who cause all the trouble.
In other news, my uncle came up with the ultimate way of avoiding the census entirely. He checked out permanently half an hour before midnight. R.I.P. :angel: I owe my presence in this hobby to him, and will never forget.
That's bad news Mate.
Sorry for your loss.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='94016' dateline='1470758095'That's bad news Mate.
Sorry for your loss.
Thanks, mate. I spent most of the day with him, and three of my cousins (two of his daughters). It was, umm, bittersweet.
Oh, and please, lets not hijack this thread like we always do.
I just heard on the ABC that the site did not crash, it was taken down by the ABS due to persistent attacks from overseas hackers. Apparently it's still not back up and running.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='94014' dateline='1470757939'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='94011' dateline='1470754379'Despite all of that the Census itself is not the problem.
Tools never are. Its the idiots driving them who cause all the trouble.
In other news, my uncle came up with the ultimate way of avoiding the census entirely. He checked out permanently half an hour before midnight. R.I.P. :angel: I owe my presence in this hobby to him, and will never forget.
Sorry to hear that Fulvio, sympathies.
Apparently it will be up and running again around 9am but we'll see.
My sincere condolences to you and your family for your lose Fulvio :(
Well I have tried about 30 times today to log on with no success.
The website is still down and according to news reports, they don't know it will be up again.
So I tried to phone them on the 1300 number but was told a long delay by a recorded message and to ring back later.
That 1300 number costs me $0.318c per call so I will be giving that a big miss.
I shall wait till the website comes online again.
If anyone has a spare form that they don't want please PM me and I'll give you my contact address.
TIA.
:laugh2: so much for what they said on the news early this morning about it being back on line around 9am :scratch_one-s_head: They really are hopeless and next they'll want us to vote this way :@
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='94048' dateline='1470796853':laugh2: so much for what they said on the news early this morning about it being back on line around 9am :scratch_one-s_head: They really are hopeless and next they'll want us to vote this way :@
I don't think we will ever be voting online after this shitstorm, you gotta remember that we only have third world internet here so we shouldn't expect much. we have dropped down to about 48th in the world with internet speed, not bad considering it was our prime minister that invented the internet.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='94042' dateline='1470796096'If anyone has a spare form that they don't want please PM me and I'll give you my contact address.
Use the form request line to order one. It should still work.
Quote from: 'interest' pid='94050' dateline='1470797275'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='94048' dateline='1470796853':laugh2: so much for what they said on the news early this morning about it being back on line around 9am :scratch_one-s_head: They really are hopeless and next they'll want us to vote this way :@
I don't think we will ever be voting online after this shitstorm, you gotta remember that we only have third world internet here so we shouldn't expect much. we have dropped down to about 48th in the world with internet speed, not bad considering it was our prime minister that invented the internet.
:laugh2: yes I think your right interest, lets see should we go fibre optic or stay with 100 year old copper wire that cost more and less efficient for the digital age we are in :winkextra: :angel: Imagine if we had over a billion people like india :shock: and apparently they did their last election on line, we are hopeless but believe we are good and so high tech, maybe that's why most of the call centres are in india as well :dodgy:
Anyone even remotely familiar with online gaming would know that servers going down due to excessive load on release day of major games is basically expected. If companies expecting BILLIONS of dollars of revenue can't get servers right it's laughable to expect a bunch of public servants to be able to do so. What's happened was inevitable. Perhaps they'll get it right by the time the next census comes around, or do some sort of phased online release like the ATO wisely did with their e-Tax product.
And as to data security, as my wise 13 yr old son said, even if you do fill in the paper form your mail can still get stolen or compromised. Personally I think it's all a storm in a teacup anyway, most people have their personal data typed into many different commercial websites and don't give it a second thought.
Yes :i_agree: Mark.
Mum has a paper that we have yet to fill out and I try and not to give too much info out on the net (well as little as possible) and don't do internet banking or anything like that as I don't trust it but that's just me :angel:
Heh, while anyone is given a task with budget constraints, it will always take longer and cost more to get it right. Didn't know you went in for a service AJ, but good to see you on the mend.
:laugh2: yeah mate a bit of a rebuild and just lucky there wasn't an oil and filter change as well :blink: but it would be ok to have one of the pretty nurses check the dip stick :blush2: :mocking: Shut up Belly I know I'm a dip stick and same goes for the rest of the peanut gallery :P Now I've definitely had enough op's to last me a life time and a few big one's to boot but I'm still here to annoy everyone :friends:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='94071' dateline='1470809458'I'm still here to annoy everyone
Trying VERY hard to pass up that juicy bait...
They just said on the news that after the hack/meltdown there's talk of scrapping the census entirely. :shok:
And yeah, it was predictable. If *I* was going to move something like this online, I certainly wouldn't also attach a massive crim magnet to it at the same time. Morons.
Yes it makes you wonder :dash1:
I thought you and a few other might Fulvio..go hard mate I hang enough crap on people and love a good stir :)
I wonder who was paid the cool half million for doing the "load testing" on the system. I think "stress testing" would have been much more appropriate under the circumstances.
Perhaps the IT guys at the TAB might be able to help them out, they never seem to have issues with the "stress scenarios" on cup day.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='94092' dateline='1470818605'Perhaps the IT guys at the TAB might be able to help them out
BAD idea! Don't you remember the massive scam they allowed to happen on their pokies?
Had not heard of that one before Fulvio.
(My sympathies by the way).
I purely picked them as they'd have to be quite good at ensuring stress conditions were catered for during testing.
My Biro never crashed once while I was filling out the paper form :angel::)
:laugh2: ...... and you made them pay for the return postage!
QuoteMalcolm Turnbull sought to assure Australians their census data was "safe" and had not been "compromised"
"Well he would say that, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='94098' dateline='1470819772'Had not heard of that one before
Back in the day, when the TAB was pretty much the only game in pokie town (and after the time when NSW had a monopoly and people used to head north by the busload to play), they built machines out of Amigas, and fed them the games from their central computer, since that's how they'd always run the tote business.
Well, some wiseguys worked out how it was all set up, and that the central computer was down for an hour for system maintenance.
Just before the appointed hour, a large group of people walked into TAB sites across the state. The leader played a machine, and told them what had come up over a phone hookup. The others then played their respective machines until the same screen came up.
Once they were synched, as soon as the maintenance started, the leader would play and report, and they would follow along with minimum bets. When the machine paid out, they would max their bets and win every time. At the end of the hour, everybody walked out with their winnings and disappeared.
I can't recall exactly what they took, but it was millions. Of course once the maintenance was finished, it didn't take long for alarms to go off, but by then it was far, far too late.
That was pretty much the end of the TAB's own centralised network brainfart. I wouldn't trust these guys to run a candy store, let alone a census. :angel:
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='94068' dateline='1470808574'Heh, while anyone is given a task with budget constraints, it will always take longer and cost more to get it right.
Was it the Abbott Government's first budget where they made large cuts to the ABS?
Editorial in the Sydneu Morning Herald today...
[size=+2]ABS debacle puts the Prime Minister on notice[/size]
The Herald urged people to fill in the census form fully and honestly. It noted the Australian Bureau of Statistics's assurances that its security systems were robust enough to keep our personal information safe. That appears not to have been so. Trust is broken.
The Australian Statistician David Kalisch said on morning radio that the ABS website had been subject to malicious attack that prompted him to shut it down at 7.45pm on Tuesday. That meant about 4 million households that were attempting in good faith to fulfil their civic duty by submitting their forms could not do so.
The government is trying to spin the debacle positively. The Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has congratulated the ABS for its cautious approach, emphasising its website was not breached and no private information was compromised. The minister responsible, Michael McCormack, insisted it should not be called a hack or attack, but rather an attempt to frustrate the collection of data. This is as thin as spin gets. Census 2016 is a multi-faceted shambles with farreaching consequences, for the census, for the ABS and for the Turnbull government.
According to cybersecurity experts, the attack on the system was of a type that is both simple and predictable, and it is surprising the ABS's systems were not resilient enough to deal with it.
It beggars belief that Malcolm Turnbull's government, which wants to be distinguished by its smarts around innovation, digital media and the new economy, can oversee an IT fail of such huge proportions that by its very nature involves every single citizen. The new Turnbull administration has been cack-handed in managing this, one of its first, most important, and basic tasks of government.
Let's consider what has been lost. A great collective tradition lies in tatters. For more than 100 years Australians have trusted the government statistical bureau with their personal information so governments can plan how to distribute funds most fairly and effectively, draw electoral boundaries fairly, understand how society is changing and where new or better policies are needed. The ABS has been a world leader, advising other governments about how to conduct censuses.
We don't know how the households who could not lodge on the night, and now have until September 23 to do so, will respond. With justified cause for concern about the security of ABS data, many may by now be wary of providing detailed, accurate personal information or participating at all. Now that many people will be filling it out retrospectively, there is a question about veracity. It can no longer be an accurate snapshot of Australia on the given night
The ABS, like all government agencies, has been under pressure to reduce costs and find ways of increasing its income. It has been run down, and required to do more with less. The government has shown little concern. The ABS has had three ministers in the past 12 months and the latest, McCormack, took on the responsibility just three weeks ago.
After Brian Pink retired at the start of 2014, then-treasurer Joe Hockey and former prime minister Tony Abbott didn't bother replacing him for nearly a year. The ABS sought to save costs by cutting corners, for example, with its crucial monthly employment survey. But the price turned out to be high when the figures jumped around so much the survey's credibility was dented.
In similar vein, it was proposed to save $200 million by skipping this year's census altogether and shifting to 10-year intervals instead of five. As Fairfax Media's Peter Martin has reported, when that plan was dropped because it was unlikely to get through the Senate, the bureau decided on the controversial course of keeping names and addresses supplied for the census so they could be linked – encrypted, of course – with other data to provide richer information. And for the first time most people would have to lodge census forms online, to save the bureau the cost of delivering or posting them.
The ABS and government ministers insisted everything would be all right on the night. But planning and explanation of these changes has proved woefully inadequate. The census failure suggests a troubling level of incompetence and inattention to detail. It does not inspire confidence. The public's trust is hard won and easily squandered. Mr Turnbull and his government are on notice.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='94145' dateline='1470863934'Editorial in the Sydneu Morning Herald today...
Ever since Mal showed his true colours and disappointed the 3/4 of us who thought he'd be a breath of fresh air, I was one of many, many people warning anyone who would listen that the Libs couldn't be trusted on any issue.
Sadly half the people never got the memo, and voted these losers back in. And now we all get to pay the price. Can we survive three years of epic fails? I guess we'll see, unless one of their people drops off the perch and gives us a chance to change horses early. :(
QuoteI guess we'll see, unless one of their people drops off the perch and gives us a chance to change horses early.
Don't go giving us any crazy ideas here Mate :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='94149' dateline='1470866992'Quotechange horses early.
Don't go giving us any crazy ideas here Mate :angel:
What, like shooting lame horses maybe? ;)
Like this crazy idea hinted at by Trump. It might be his 'final nail' scenario.
https://www.google.com.au/#q=trump+hints+at+clinton
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='94151' dateline='1470869111'Like this crazy idea hinted at by Trump. It might be his 'final nail' scenario.
https://www.google.com.au/#q=trump+hints+at+clinton
Trump is the US answer to Pauline Hanson.
Both of them only open their mouths to change feet :angel::laugh2:
The Australia Post Tracking site is down as well today
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='94163' dateline='1470872753'The Australia Post Tracking site is down as well today
I noticed that.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='94014' dateline='1470757939'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='94011' dateline='1470754379'Despite all of that the Census itself is not the problem.
Tools never are. Its the idiots driving them who cause all the trouble.
In other news, my uncle came up with the ultimate way of avoiding the census entirely. He checked out permanently half an hour before midnight. R.I.P. :angel: I owe my presence in this hobby to him, and will never forget.
I am sorry to hear that Fulvio.
Please accept my condolences.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='94148' dateline='1470866599'unless one of their people drops off the perch and gives us a chance to change horses early. :(
Oops, lets not return to 1975 when a dodgy Queensland premier departed from accepted tradition and replaced a deceased Labour Senator with a lapdog, and the rest is history. Although, Labour probably reckons they owe the Libs one :angel:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='94014' dateline='1470757939'In other news, my uncle came up with the ultimate way of avoiding the census entirely. He checked out permanently half an hour before midnight. R.I.P. :angel: I owe my presence in this hobby to him, and will never forget.
I'm sorry to hear that as well,always sad when someone close passes on...
The ABS guy,Kalish?,was on TV/Radio on Tuesday smugly relating on how secure the data was and how the system would cope with the expected Millions logging on etc,etc.I thought to myself that would be like a red rag to a Bull for all the budding Assange's out there,stupid comments,any computer connected to the Internet or another computer that is can be hacked.
It seems to me that there was so much kerfuffle in the media leading up to the Census re data confidentiality, the systems' ability to cope with the expected traffic etc that the ABS were forced to reassure the public that all would be safe and well. Unfortunately for them their confidence was misplaced and it all turned to camel droppings.
Pedro
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='94185' dateline='1470888692'I thought to myself that would be like a red rag to a Bull for all the budding Assange's out there
Couple things...
First up, Julian's not what I'd call a hacker in the modern popular context of the term. He's much more old-school. What you'd call a 'white-hat' these days. Interested in locating vulnerabilities in order to fix them, not exploit them. And anyway, his hacking days are a long way back in his past.
Secondly, none of this would have been a problem, except for one thing. The identifying details. The moment they demanded names and addresses, they effectively planted a
'STEAL ME' flashing neon sign in 50-foot letters, and guaranteed every media outlet in the world would cover it in detail. What criminal could possibly pass up such an invitation?
Guess why IT people pretty much all opted for paper forms? :angel:
---
Oh, and as for the condolences, I'm not ignoring them, and I appreciate all the nice things you guys are saying. I just don't want to turn this into a bereavement thread, so I'm not replying individually.
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='94151' dateline='1470869111'Like this crazy idea hinted at by Trump. It might be his 'final nail' scenario.
https://www.google.com.au/#q=trump+hints+at+clinton
He didn't even hint at it, all he did was refer to the risks involved if the election was rigged (with computer voting and the Diebold fiasco it is almost certain to happen). As it is he has been pretty mild in his rhetoric compared to Clintons camp (such as Democrats calling for Assange to be assassinated after his involvement in releasing the DNC emails that were leaked to him by a DNC staffer). BTW that staffer was assassinated a few weeks ago and makes it one of five Arkancide cases in the past 5 weeks of those who were at risk of testifying against Hillary.
The other thing that asking for names does is remove trust that you can answer truthfully with no consequences down the track.
If you are a Christian and worried that sharia law will be implemented and Christians will be persecuted, you may not answer truthfully.
If you are Muslim and worried that all Muslims are suspected to be terrorists, you may not want to answer truthfully.
If collecting this data is important, then don't provide reasons for people to want to not provide accurate data.
It is shear stupidity to ask for names with no reason.
I don't know why everyone is so up in arms about giving your name and address on the census The government already has heaps of your personal info, Here is a small sample of what they can use to identify you.
Medicare card
Tax file number
drivers licence
Centrelink
Firearms licence
There are many more forms that we fill out on a regular basis that probably gives away more personal details than the census and I would imagine that nobody would BS on any of the above , Tax returns exempted :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='94229' dateline='1470906668'The government already has heaps of your personal info
Yes, they do. But they don't have what's in the census, and anyone hacking the ABS doesn't get everything about you. Until now, anyway.
Consider this...
You identify yourself as jewish. A radical palestinian group hacks the database and gets the name and address of every jew in the country. Or a far right-wing bunch of fascists gains power, and simply looks it up.
Either way, there's a ready-made hit list for kidnapping, assassination or government gas chambers.
What's that? Couldn't happen? But it already has, hasn't it? And now tell me how different someone like Trump is to Hitler. Oh, but this is Australia, right? Yeah, so? Look at the series of retarded decisions made by both governments, certain red-heads and the voting public at large and tell me again it couldn't happen here.
I'm with Fulvio as anything is possible and especially in the day and age and I'm one person that hates big brother and also the TV show of the same name :blink: I don't see why they need to know everything and I bet the politicians and the likes of Rinehart, turdbull and all the other richies don't like giving out their info either.
QuoteI bet the politicians and the likes of Rinehart, turdbull and all the other richies don't like giving out their info either.
They would simply do what all politicians and big business do...................They
LIE
true, or pay the fine for not filling them out, not like they don't have the money to cover it.
Oh yay... the form finally arrived.
Now to let it mature for a month or so before putting on the creative writing hat and filling in about half of it. ;)
I like the latest debacle where auspost has scanned the bar code census says to make sure is showing in the window of the return envelope and sends the form back to the person that has sent them, and the form also shows the address it come from. So if the bar code sends it back to the person that sent it does that mean auspost is also linked to everything and has your name and address and who knows what else on file, like one of our MP's says
(http://i68.tinypic.com/357ojew.jpg)
This just in:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpjfeskUIAASklo.jpg)
Makes me now feel so very confident completing my form :dodgy:
Pedro
Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='94373' dateline='1471006752'Makes me now feel so very confident completing my form
Heh, why you think I opted for the paper version, like every other geek I know? ;)
Actually, the thing that came to mind when reading it was that it was part of a Benny Hill skit :biggrin:
Pedro
I read somewhere that most computer geeks opted for the paper submission as soon as they found out IBM was contracted for the on line system.
Could just be scuttlebutt but, maybe, a kernel of truth in it.
:laugh2: ..... kernel ......
I thought I was the culprit of corny! Well maybe Unicorny ......
I won't post my thoughts & many years of experience dealing with IBM ....... needless to say.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='94455' dateline='1471071603'I won't post my thoughts & many years of experience dealing with IBM ....... needless to say.
Its all well documented anyway.
"And Tomorrow the World - Inside IBM" does a pretty exhaustive job of it. ;)
We managed to fill ours out earlier tonight.
I posted ours yesterday. But what I want to know is how do they know if you lied, if they know everything what's the point in filling out anything :blink: All a load of crap if you ask me and this BS about it helps schools and roads etc, how as there's not one question asking about our thoughts on schools or our local roads..humbug :dodgy:
If you didn't watch GRUEN on AB TV tonight (still not too late if you are in W.A.) then check it out on iview (http://iview.abc.net.au/). Series 8 episode 3.
That is a real hatchet job -I await with interest to see what response it provokes.
And I love Todd's T shirt (can't imagine robbiegal wearing that one).
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='94836' dateline='1471431896'If you didn't watch GRUEN on AB TV tonight (still not too late if you are in W.A.) then check it out on iview (http://iview.abc.net.au/). Series 8 episode 3.
That is a real hatchet job -I await with interest to see what response it provokes.
And I love Todd's T shirt (can't imagine robbiegal wearing that one).
It was a good show I reckon. Especially the ad about the arsehole becoming a hero.
BTW, check this out:
http://eftm.com.au/2016/08/how-two-uni-students-built-a-better-census-site-in-just-54-hours-for-500-30752
Two guys, one weekend and $500 beat the many millions the government wasted on the Census.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='94836' dateline='1471431896'If you didn't watch GRUEN on AB TV tonight (still not too late if you are in W.A.) then check it out on iview (http://iview.abc.net.au/). Series 8 episode 3.
That is a real hatchet job -I await with interest to see what response it provokes.
And I love Todd's T shirt (can't imagine robbiegal wearing that one).
I didn't mind the show but it reeked of "20/20 hindsight" IMHO. And when one of the panelists said "oh so 2 million people needed to access the website all they needed was 50 different landing pages ready to go, it's really not hard" I cringed. There speaks someone who knows NOTHING of the technical issues behind running a high traffic website.
One of Fulvio's favourite websites, Reddit, suffered some downtime last week (about two hours) and it's a high traffic site. The reddit tech guys started a thread over there about what went wrong and the hoops they have to jump through to deliver their users a good experience. It's certainly not easy and several orders of magnitude more difficult than "having 50 different landing pages ready to go".
And Coleman Sweeney, he was a total asshole :)
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='94908' dateline='1471498419'Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='94836' dateline='1471431896'If you didn't watch GRUEN on AB TV tonight (still not too late if you are in W.A.) then check it out on iview (http://iview.abc.net.au/). Series 8 episode 3.
That is a real hatchet job -I await with interest to see what response it provokes.
And I love Todd's T shirt (can't imagine robbiegal wearing that one).
It was a good show I reckon. Especially the ad about the xxxx becoming a hero.
BTW, check this out:
http://eftm.com.au/2016/08/how-two-uni-students-built-a-better-census-site-in-just-54-hours-for-500-30752
Two guys, one weekend and $500 beat the many millions the government wasted on the Census.
That is a great attention grabbing story, but the more I think about it, the less relevant it actually is to anything which has happened.
Without knowing the original specifications, they could have no idea of what was supposed to be built.
They would not be comparing apples with oranges - more like apples with rocks.
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='94911' dateline='1471501319'They would not be comparing apples with oranges - more like apples with rocks.
Not really. Any online form is basically the same. Throw up a question, get the answer, validate it, stuff it in a field, rinse and repeat, write the record into your database. How you pack your data has some bearing on performance, but the point they were making was that with a big enough back end, you're going to have a tough time crashing it. And there are plenty of existing real-world solutions that handle big data without such expensive and embarrassing screwups.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='94909' dateline='1471499708'And Coleman Sweeney, he was a total asshole :)
That was kind of the point. He turned out to be useful in the end though.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='94937' dateline='1471510965'Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='94911' dateline='1471501319'They would not be comparing apples with oranges - more like apples with rocks.
Not really. Any online form is basically the same. Throw up a question, get the answer, validate it, stuff it in a field, rinse and repeat, write the record into your database. How you pack your data has some bearing on performance, but the point they were making was that with a big enough back end, you're going to have a tough time crashing it. And there are plenty of existing real-world solutions that handle big data without such expensive and embarrassing screwups.
Let's say someone says "Why does it cost so much to get 2000l of milk from Sydney to Melbourne - I can do it for much less"
They go to the farm with 8 x 250l barrels strapped to an old car trailer towed by the Falcon they already own.
They fill the barrels, drive to Melbourne - Job done!
Just how many problems can you see with someone doing that?
Surely no specifications could have been overlooked?
The job is done, right?
No one needs all that other rubbish like
- temperature when it left being recorded
- temperature when it arrived being recorded
- training on delivering milk safely
- refrigeration during the trip
- processing of the milk so it's pasturised
-not using barrels previously used to hold diesel fuel
Also
- the car is overloaded posing a danger to other road users and insurance is void
The requirements and specifications matter.
The guys in the story would have been purely guessing at a small part of the requirements.
Everyone with any clue knows it is possible to design and implement something to do the census, so these guys proved nothing.
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='94981' dateline='1471563775'Everyone with any clue knows it is possible to design and implement something to do the census, so these guys proved nothing.
But your analogy isn't equivalent.
Online systems comprise two components.
Hardware and Software.
Hardware for such an application would comprise the machines, data centres, network infrastructure, power, cooling and of course security.
All of which already exist in places like this:
(http://www.cloudcomputing-news.net/media/img/news/iStock_enterprisedatacentre2356276.jpg.800x600_q96.png)
AND, they're for rent. To anybody. For cheap.
Now, I've worked in such places. I watched one being built in South Melbourne, and because we were a government department, everything was gold-plated. From triple-redundancy diesel generators (which were never once used in the 15 years the place lasted) to military-grade physical access controls complete with armed security guards (in case the russians or whoever stormed the building, I guess).
While you wouldn't replace such a centre for the daily operations of a major government department, there is no reason at all not to use a cloud provider such as Amazon for a one-hit wonder like the census. Their specs are actually much higher than anything we ever did, that's for sure.
And then there's software.
At the end of the day, its just a series of instructions written in one of a number of possible languages by humans. It can be simple or complex, yet do the exact same job. And the more bells and whistles you throw in, the more complex and expensive it becomes.
But there is no inherent quality difference between a line of code written by a guy on $150,000 working for a contractor charging him out at $200/hr and a line of code written by a student for a couple of slices of pizza. I would even go so far as to say the kid will likely write BETTER code that runs faster, cheaper and more reliably than the expensive 'professional'.
And yes, I've been both of those guys, and my own output deteriorated once the 'spark' got hammered out of me by bureaucracies. I eventually grew to hate what I was doing, and went and drove a truck instead.
electronic census worked for us today
The actual cause of the on line stuff up is revealed.
I have the knack of being able to stuff up a room full of computers with the click of a mouse and often have people exclaiming in response to my pathetic pleas for help: ''Wow! I have no idea – I've never seen that before'' while looking over my shoulder at what's on the screen (''Losing our senses over the census'', August 14). So confession time: I think that while I was online filling out the census form on August 9 ... well, the rest is history. Sorry for the inconvenience folks.
Alicia Dawson Balmain Letter to the editor, Sun Herald, today. :laugh2:
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='95246' dateline='1471753046'Alicia Dawson Balmain
I'm pretty sure I know her. Or at least many people just like her anyway. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp-uKlhXvmo
The ABS just doesn't seem to be able to win a trick. Is it just bad luck or bad management?
Field workers who rescued Census for ABS haven't been paid (http://www.smh.com.au/national/public-service/field-workers-who-rescued-census-havent-been-paid--20161020-gs7crk.html)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8047/8357331654_ab3bc1dde3_z.jpg)
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='100374' dateline='1477274977'The ABS just doesn't seem to be able to win a trick. Is it just bad luck or bad management?
Field workers who rescued Census for ABS haven't been paid (http://www.smh.com.au/national/public-service/field-workers-who-rescued-census-havent-been-paid--20161020-gs7crk.html)
I bet the people that supplied the failed computer system got their money though .
Well the ABS is getting another chance. This letter (to the Editor) writer is obviously a student of past form...
I have every confidence that the ABS will be able to use the experience and professionalism it drew upon in the recent census to adequately measure community support for same-sex marriage. The result: 346 people for and 98 against.
John Stahel, Braidwood
:laughingneqw:
ROFL!
Thanks Jeff.
Its hllarious. Then you realise it is true and wonder if you should really be laughing....
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='110884' dateline='1503030530'Then you realise it is true and wonder if you should really be laughing....
I'm currently watching Utopia. Exactly the same... :angel:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='110885' dateline='1503037696'Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='110884' dateline='1503030530'Then you realise it is true and wonder if you should really be laughing....
I'm currently watching Utopia. Exactly the same... :angel:
I have not watched utopia, but I have seen a couple of ads for it and it looks very good.
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='110952' dateline='1503443227'Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='110885' dateline='1503037696'Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='110884' dateline='1503030530'Then you realise it is true and wonder if you should really be laughing....
I'm currently watching Utopia. Exactly the same... :angel:
I have not watched utopia, but I have seen a couple of ads for it and it looks very good.
I watched one episode of it, but I decided that Yes (Prime) Minister was about 10x better. :laugh2: