Hey All,
After a tip off from Trout i purchased the 50.50 Two Coin Set because i wanted a brand new/recent issue 50c with the double-bar variation.
Seeing as he wanted photos and i thought i might as well creat a thread dedicated to this variation of the 50c.
My photos are terrible, i found it hard to capture the rather tiny double-bar detail thru the plastic capsules... and this is the first time ive ever tried to photograph a coin :D Maybe scanning is better when in capsules?
(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Myphotosherenow/DSC_0360_zpsniqwlyqg.jpg) (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/Myphotosherenow/media/DSC_0360_zpsniqwlyqg.jpg.html)
(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Myphotosherenow/DSC_0361_zpsn1nitzu6.jpg) (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/Myphotosherenow/media/DSC_0361_zpsn1nitzu6.jpg.html)
(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Myphotosherenow/DSC_0362_zps0brabbvp.jpg) (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/Myphotosherenow/media/DSC_0362_zps0brabbvp.jpg.html)
(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Myphotosherenow/DSC_0358_zps4v5a13u2.jpg) (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/Myphotosherenow/media/DSC_0358_zps4v5a13u2.jpg.html)
Feel free to post any photos of double bars in this thread.. or general discussion would be interesting.
Well done Mate :yahoo:
I recon you could see that double bar from across the room it is that well defined :good:
Mine should be here by the end of the week , hopefully :)
What sort of condition is the round coin in that set?
The double bars are easy enough to see in person. I don't know how they rate to other years.
The circulated coin is in good condition. No complaints, i don't have any others to compare it with.
I can recall that some of the members here purchased these sets when they were initially released, I find it unusual that none of them have posted that they are a double bar coin.
Maybe they just overlooked the proof coin in their haste to assess the Round 1966 coin in the set and missed this detail :)
Just in case we have any new members or maybe foreign members visit this page, that do not know what the hell we are talking about, here is a picture of the double bars.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10113/Picture1.gif)
QuoteJust in case we have any new members or maybe foreign members visit this page, that do not know what the hell we are talking about
A good point Steve.
Here are another couple of images, one I pinched off "loose Change" and cropped it, the other is mine.
Double Bar
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/double_bar.jpg)
Normal
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/double_bar1.jpg)
There is also a "C" mintmark on this proof.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93227' dateline='1469441931'Here are another couple of images, one I pinched off "loose Change" and cropped it, the other is mine.
Hang on....
What's with the different frosting???
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='93230' dateline='1469448856'Quote from: 'trout' pid='93227' dateline='1469441931'Here are another couple of images, one I pinched off "loose Change" and cropped it, the other is mine.
Hang on....
What's with the different frosting???
Anyone can make a proof coin look different by using different angles and lighting.
My image was taken directly above the coin Loose changes image was taken at an angle to the coin which produces a different looking image :ok:
My first photo does look a bit weird. At least the mint mark is visible in each of my photos so proof its the same coin i guess :D
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93232' dateline='1469449415'Anyone can make a proof coin look different by using different angles and lighting.
You missed my point. Where's the mirror field alongside the neck?
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/forum/OddFrost.jpg)
QuoteYou missed my point. Where's the mirror field alongside the neck?
Picky Old Bugger :laugh2:
But Yes you are on to something there Mate :good:
That Old saying about Fresh eyes are the best to find things comes to mind here.
The design on the reeds does look a little different and I am unsure if the area in front of the emu's neck is a change in design or simply a stuff up when the frosting was applied to the die.
I won't know too much more until my coins arrive and I can give this some closer examination.
So far this particular coin has Piqued my interest and I am quite eager to examining it "in hand" :)
Maybe Mark could grace this thread with one of his remarkable images of this coin if he has one available :angel:
My 50.50 Coin:
(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Myphotosherenow/double_barmine_zpsnsacfxkf.jpg) (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/Myphotosherenow/media/double_barmine_zpsnsacfxkf.jpg.html)
Trouts Coin:
(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Myphotosherenow/double_bar1triout_zpsmmztlklc.jpg) (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/Myphotosherenow/media/double_bar1triout_zpsmmztlklc.jpg.html)
I don't have time to play spot the difference right now, this was just another difference i noticed between Trouts and my photos. I hadn't seen the difference you noticed Fulvio, good job.
Just for the record Trout, what is your coin? Baby set proof?
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93236' dateline='1469462008'or simply a stuff up when the frosting was applied to the die.
I'm waiting on a reply as to what process they use now. The last time I went on a tour, I seem to recall they were sandblasting by hand, but they'll have moved on. Probably a chemical etch, or maybe laser like this US Mint video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN9qtTdJK3w
QuoteJust for the record Trout, what is your coin? Baby set proof?
that particular coin is from a 2004 annual silver proof set
Mine arrived today :yahoo:
Here are my images of the coin, even I can see the double bar at arms length :good:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2015_double_bar.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2015_double_bar1.jpg)
Yes the design IS different in front of the emu's neck.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2015_double_bar2.jpg)
Nice find.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93321' dateline='1469688236'Here are my images of the coin, even I can see the double bar at arms length
Nice pics. And they prove conclusively the frosting IS different. :)
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='93339' dateline='1469708235'Quote from: 'trout' pid='93321' dateline='1469688236'Here are my images of the coin, even I can see the double bar at arms length
Nice pics. And they prove conclusively the frosting IS different. :)
It does look like there has been some re designing done on the reverse of this coin.
The Mintmark is also unique to this one as well as it is a "First" for a COA 50c
The round 50c in my set isn't too shabby either, I was expecting some beaten up bullion coin in that slot and am pleasantly surprised with the coin in the set :good:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2015_double_bar_set_round_50c.jpg)
Thanks for putting up better photos trout.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='93426' dateline='1469807046'Thanks for putting up better photos trout.
There was Nothing wrong with your images Mate :good:
Ah, so the double bar coins are from the set on page 5 at http://www.ramint.gov.au/sites/default/files/mintissue03/mintissue03/2015%20MINTISSUE_104_FEB2015_Interactive.pdf are they?
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='94027' dateline='1470785793'Ah, so the double bar coins are from the set on page 5 at http://www.ramint.gov.au/sites/default/files/mintissue03/mintissue03/2015%20MINTISSUE_104_FEB2015_Interactive.pdf are they?
The coin comes from the 2015 50.50 two coin set.
It contains the double bar proof 50c and a 1966 round 50 cent coin :ok:
Is it worth getting?
Quote from: 'Enlilninlil' pid='94034' dateline='1470792718'Is it worth getting?
The 1966, 1979 and 1980 double bars are not that distinct , This 2015 coin has very distinct bars.
The sets are selling for between $60-$80 and they are a Grannybait issue so as an investment then probably not worth getting.
However if you just want a great example of a double bar 50c in your collection then it is well worth getting.
So if they minted more 1966 round 50 cents does that now mean ALL the mintages are out for this coin on the RAM site and all the books :scratch_one-s_head:
http://www.ramint.gov.au/fifty-cents
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='94044' dateline='1470796288'So if they minted more 1966 round 50 cents does that now mean ALL the mintages are out for this coin on the RAM site and all the books :scratch_one-s_head:
http://www.ramint.gov.au/fifty-cents
The round 50c in this set isn't a new coin, It is a standard 1966 coin :ok:
Yeah that's what I mean, one would think if it's stamped 1966 and is a standard round coin it would alter the original mintage figures from 1966.
Same as if they minted more coins of any other year it would alter the existing mintages, just thinking out loud :)
Jack, Im pretty sure the 1966 is from 1966.. its just a cleaned original coin.
Those bastards, sitting on all those coins :@ I wonder how many other years they have squirrelled away for other "special" years to come :winkextra:
I had wondered the same things as you jack, when i saw round 1966 50c coins being sold by Perthmint, it wasn't clear what they really where.
The Perth Mint has been doing that with the 1c and 2c coins as well
If they're old stock then mintage figures will stay the same but if they're newly minted I think the figures need to be adjusted. Just my thoughts on the matter :)
Yes Jen there's a few coins that this has happened too and I wonder how many more.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='94069' dateline='1470808729'there's a few coins that this has happened too and I wonder how many more.
I think it was actually just one. Every other time something has been re-issued, the current date was used.
I have heard they sometimes hold coins for a few years before letting them go into the pond, quite a few years actually but then things they do don't surprise me much any more.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='94079' dateline='1470814740'I have heard they sometimes hold coins for a few years before letting them go into the pond, quite a few years actually but then things they do don't surprise me much any more.
Yeah, but that's different. Like Armaguard releasing Coronation $2 last Xmas, 3 years late! :dodgy:
I just picked this one up on eBay for $44 delivered :good:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-2015-50c-Proof-C-Mint-Mark-from-a-50-50-Set-/172299866675?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=H7FReBYN5MXSO8QfqNZp22E%252Bgtw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Will you send any of these double-bars off for grading ?
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='94125' dateline='1470829344'Will you send any of these double-bars off for grading ?
I'm not sure yet Mate, I have got the shits with PCGS at the moment :angel:
I have just checked my set and I do have a double bar. Here are the scans:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/2016-08-17_10-55-49_0141.jpg)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/2016-08-17_10-56-27_0142.jpg)
I know I am a bit late but I had to fing the set first.
QuoteI have just checked my set and I do have a double bar. Here are the scans:
Isn't it nice to notice that you have something unusual later on in the piece :good:
I would assume that all the Proof coins in these 50.50 sets have the double bar design as there was only a 5,000 mintage and one die would have been capable of producing that many coins :)
This is the Round 1966 coin that I got in that last set I won on eBay.
The double bar on this is the most defined I have personally seen so far and it is easily seen with the naked eye (even mine).
The coin itself is nothing to rave about grade wise but that double bar is a corker :yahoo:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/double_bar_1966_50c.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/double_bar_1966_50c1.jpg)
Nice and strong.
Was that from a mint set?
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='98143' dateline='1474077610'Nice and strong.
Was that from a mint set?
It is the round "recycled" 1966 50c that came with the Proof coin in the 2015 50.50 set.
I spotted it with my naked eye as soon as I opened up the set :good:
Ah ha! I spy with my little eye something beginning with "D B". Good one.
Quote from: 'Triggersmob' pid='93223' dateline='1469441091'Just in case we have any new members or maybe foreign members visit this page, that do not know what the hell we are talking about, here is a picture of the double bars.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10113/Picture1.gif)
Thanks for that I was in a quandry now I know what to look for one further question does that make them collectable ? forgive the ignorance.
Its worth having an example in your collection as a different variety but they dont tend to add that much value.
Also, nice strong example trout.
1979 and 1980 are not too hard to find in circulation. Most 1966 have a very faint trace of the double bars.
Can be found in some other years but rather uncommon. Does anyone have a definitive list of the years?
I think there was a reasonable but possibly incomplete list on CCF but I think the upshot of the discussion was that there are faint vestiges on many years but only strong, visible examples on 1966, 1979 and 1980 coins.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='98399' dateline='1474362333'I think there was a reasonable but possibly incomplete list on CCF but I think the upshot of the discussion was that there are faint vestiges on many years but only strong, visible examples on 1966, 1979 and 1980 coins.
the 2015 "C" mintmark Proof coin has undoubtedly the strongest Double Bar of them all, Even the 1979-80 Proof coins are nowhere near as distinct :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='98403' dateline='1474362888'Even the 1979-80 Proof coins are nowhere near as distinct :ok:
I wouldn't agree. The 79/80's I found last night were extremely sharp and distinct. Anyway, Proofs aren't 'real' coins.. everybody knows that! :angel:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='98406' dateline='1474365067'Quote from: 'trout' pid='98403' dateline='1474362888'Even the 1979-80 Proof coins are nowhere near as distinct :ok:
I wouldn't agree. The 79/80's I found last night were extremely sharp and distinct. Anyway, Proofs aren't 'real' coins.. everybody knows that! :angel:
I would send you a 2015 coin So that you can see for yourself, But as it isn't a "Real" coin it might just vanish before your very eyes like Magic :laugh2:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='98409' dateline='1474365231'as it isn't a "Real" coin it might just vanish before your very eyes like Magic :laugh2:
Indeed it might. I've heard stories about those magic Trout Mint disappearing coins. :dodgy:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='98411' dateline='1474365476'Quote from: 'trout' pid='98409' dateline='1474365231'as it isn't a "Real" coin it might just vanish before your very eyes like Magic :laugh2:
Indeed it might. I've heard stories about those magic Trout Mint disappearing coins. :dodgy:
HeHe.
My point is that all the other years with double Bars are errors and as such are NOT perfectly defined whereas the "C" Mintmark coin was actually a subtlety different design COA and the double bars are a part of that new design and are NOT an error :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='98413' dateline='1474366177'My point is that all the other years with double Bars are errors and as such are NOT perfectly defined whereas the "C" Mintmark coin was actually a subtlety different design COA and the double bars are a part of that new design and are NOT an error :ok:
Umm....
NO!They're varieties, not errors. The dies are different. The definition is a function of die wear, fills, attempts to remove the bars, but they are NOT errors.
QuoteUmm.... NO!
They're varieties, not errors. The dies are different. The definition is a function of die wear, fills, attempts to remove the bars, but they are NOT errors.
Variety/error whatever they were not a deliberate design feature on the 66,79 and 80 coins, So lets just call them a "Mistake" for the purpose of this particular discussion :):ok:
The double bars on the 2015 coin ARE a deliberate part of the design and are neither an error nor a variety.
They are also well defined and perfectly formed and not just the thin almost scratch like marks that make up the previous years double bar coins.
1979 db
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/79_db.jpg)
2015 db
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2015_double_bar2.jpg)
I recall hearing that they were intended on original 66 design but they caused a die weakness so they largely did away with them. Am i off my nut or have others heard something similar?
Quote from: 'trout' pid='98423' dateline='1474372567'they were not a deliberate design feature
They most certainly were!
Its actually the leaf continuing behind the emu's head. As Enworb says, the die was deliberately changed, possibly due to a weakness.
Now, how/why the old dies were used in 79/80 is debateable. I would put it that after the design was changed, there were still a number of dies with the original design. The faint vestigial bars suggest that attempts were made to fill in the bars to use these dies up, with mixed success.
At any rate, in 1979 original dies were mistakenly used, and again in 1980. This could have occurred if it was the tail end of the 79 and beginning of the 80 production. I would also suggest that the mistake was not with the wrong production dies being used, but earlier in the process, and that a large number of the wrong dies were made and subsequently used up. I base that opinion on the large quantity of these which were circulating.
The proof coin is another kettle of fish entirely. That one would certainly have been a deliberate decision, based on the leaf being there in the original design.
Regardless, all four are varieties, not errors. The partial bars on other years would, however, qualify as errors. If anybody really cared and/or could reliably spot them, that is. :angel:
You are missing the point of what I am trying to say and that is the 2015 coin has the best defined double bars of ALL the other coins.
How the other double bars came about is interesting But all I wanted to convey in the first place is that the 2015 double bars are more defined :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='98426' dateline='1474374490'You are missing the point of what I am trying to say and that is the 2015 coin has the best defined double bars of ALL the other coins.
How the other double bars came about is interesting But all I wanted to convey in the first place is that the 2015 double bars are more defined :ok:
Fair enough. But then, its a different design, innit? They clearly went out of their way to make it look better, and in that regard succeeded, I'll grant you that. Even if I don't particularly like the way they rendered the leaves, but that's another story... ;)
QuoteFair enough. But then, its a different design, innit? They clearly went out of their way to make it look better, and in that regard succeeded, I'll grant you that. Even if I don't particularly like the way they rendered the leaves, but that's another story...
I think that RAM did a rather good job with this even though it was issued "Unannounced" with the 50.50 set.
The peculiar thing is that the image of this particular design has been used in advertisements for other ram products that actually Don't have the double bars on the 50 cent coin :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='98429' dateline='1474383557'The peculiar thing is that the image of this particular design has been used in advertisements for other ram products that actually Don't have the double bars on the 50 cent coin :angel:
And to add to the confusion the image shown on the eshop and on resellers sites for this 50:50 coin set didn't show the double-bars .. just showed the regular design... if i remember correctly.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='98473' dateline='1474450096'Quote from: 'trout' pid='98429' dateline='1474383557'The peculiar thing is that the image of this particular design has been used in advertisements for other ram products that actually Don't have the double bars on the 50 cent coin :angel:
And to add to the confusion the image shown on the eshop and on resellers sites for this 50:50 coin set didn't show the double-bars .. just showed the regular design... if i remember correctly.
You are correct.
It does seem somewhat strange that they redesigned the reverse just for this coin probably to accomodate the "C" mintmark and yet didn't use the correct images in the advertising.
I would have thought that if collectors were made aware that this coin had the Double Bar when it was released then it would have created far more interest in this issue :ok:
I and I would think Most of us that bought these did so in the hope that there would be a nice round 50c in there and the proof was just a bonus :)