I have been pondering about this massive lot of coins being graded.
Apart from bogging down the system at PCGS for a while , I have been wondering about the effects on the values of other graded coins if this huge lot of coins are collector coins and not just some marketing stunt for bullion.
Apart from Downies I doubt that most dealers would carry much more than a thousand slabs in their inventory at any one time and 20,000 more hitting the market and population reports could seriously undermine the values of the coins already graded.
For collectors this is a good thing as the costs of buying graded coins should fall, But for the Dealers that did all the hard work establishing a market for graded coins in the first place it is a bit of a kick in the Guts.
I would be interesting to find out what sort of coins are in these submissions.
Have those numbers been confirmed or is it just rumor and/or speculation?
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='90745' dateline='1465986111'Have those numbers been confirmed or is it just rumor and/or speculation?
I don't think that Eric Eigner is the type to throw out Red herrings :angel:
Not unless they are less than AU55!
Sorry, could not help myself. (I hope I haven't caught an infection from A J.)
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='90748' dateline='1465986500'Not unless they are less than AU55!
Sorry, could not help myself. (I hope I haven't caught an infection from A J.)
That Bloody AJ :laugh2:
Now that I know who Michael Cotton is I very much doubt that this is a bullion stunt and the market for slabbed coins in Australia is about to get seriously flooded.
unlike Downies I believe that he doesn't have a shop front just ebay and the FB page/s ??
Just had a look at some of his offerings. At first glance looks like reasonable coins at a fair price.
He says, on some "Picture is for demonstration purposes only, coin may have the usual marks from production at the mint."
Can't argue with that -maybe put that in bold (and bigger) font to tell the punters what we sussed out several years ago.
Do I have the right Michael Cotton -could not find any slabbed coins on offer where I was looking.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='90753' dateline='1465987437'unlike Downies I believe that he doesn't have a shop front just ebay and the FB page/s ??
He must have a bloody big shed though to store all these in.
A thousand Blue boxes take up a fair bit of room :angel:
A lot of the dealers that we all depend on DO have B&T stores and many of these are the people that have done the hard yards with establishing the market for graded coins over the last few years.
I imagine it is tough enough just keeping the doors open as it is without these sort of events.
The fall of the Rare coin company did a fair bit of damage when all those coins hit the market and I imagine that these 20,000 coins won't help to improve that.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='90754' dateline='1465987892'Just had a look at some of his offerings. At first glance looks like reasonable coins at a fair price.
He says, on some "Picture is for demonstration purposes only, coin may have the usual marks from production at the mint."
Can't argue with that -maybe put that in bold (and bigger) font to tell the punters what we sussed out several years ago.
Do I have the right Michael Cotton -could not find any slabbed coins on offer where I was looking.
I have been reliably informed that this is who we are talking about :ok:
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/11theresa11/m.html?item=271641946978&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
I have bought coins from him, nice guy to deal with.... He grades in large numbers and offer them on ebay...
Quote from: 'trout' pid='90744' dateline='1465985509'I have been pondering about this massive lot of coins being graded.
Apart from bogging down the system at PCGS for a while , I have been wondering about the effects on the values of other graded coins if this huge lot of coins are collector coins and not just some marketing stunt for bullion.
Apart from Downies I doubt that most dealers would carry much more than a thousand slabs in their inventory at any one time and 20,000 more hitting the market and population reports could seriously undermine the values of the coins already graded.
For collectors this is a good thing as the costs of buying graded coins should fall, But for the Dealers that did all the hard work establishing a market for graded coins in the first place it is a bit of a kick in the Guts.
I would be interesting to find out what sort of coins are in these submissions.
How do you know someone has submitted 20k coins for slabbing?
Grading services alone would be half a million $
:dodgy:
Large submissions tend to receive favour at PCGS I reckon.
So submitting 20000 coins at once is a smart idea.
My real concern is that there will be "special" grades and lower the standards.
Based on my experience this gentleman does not know how to grade.
He has submitted large lots in the past and received what I consider favorable grades.
Also I'd add that he is not always nice to deal with.
Those who have been waiting 6 months for grades can wait a bit longer too.
How long ago is this? Has the PCGS database been updated?
Quote from: 'trout' pid='90752' dateline='1465987175'Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='90748' dateline='1465986500'Not unless they are less than AU55!
Sorry, could not help myself. (I hope I haven't caught an infection from A J.)
That Bloody AJ :laugh2:
Now that I know who Michael Cotton is I very much doubt that this is a bullion stunt and the market for slabbed coins in Australia is about to get seriously flooded.
no but he deals in bullion and converts it to expensive jewellery
this guy is no fool and very clever marketing strategies
I am jealous
http://www.perthmint.com.au/catalogue/cotton-and-co-jewellery-collection.aspx
QuoteLarge submissions tend to receive favour at PCGS I reckon.
So submitting 20000 coins at once is a smart idea.
My real concern is that there will be more "special" grades and lower the standards.
I hope you are wrong about this as PCGS make enough stuff ups at the moment as it is and a bunch of overgraded PCGS coins hitting the market will do irreparable damage.
I don't think that PCGS would be so stupid to overgrade just because it is a big order.
Anyway if this "Venture" is successful then I imagine we can expect more of the same and our submissions to PCGS will continue to suffer.
they probably discount though
I think the approach is shotgun - 10 get high grades for every 200 sent
they still make money and flog off the lower grades to the true blue collectors
but every business has to have a solid foundation or it begins to crack
QuoteI think the approach is shotgun - 10 get high grades for every 200 sent
That to me seems crazy and a good way to go broke as the other 190 coins would struggle to even cover grading cost.
Emu would scratch his head in disbelief at that idea.
I would think that this 20,000 submissions would have been put together after selecting the best coins and selling the rest "Raw"
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='90758' dateline='1465991425'Large submissions tend to receive favour at PCGS I reckon.
So submitting 20000 coins at once is a smart idea.
My real concern is that there will be "special" grades and lower the standards.
Based on my experience this gentleman does not know how to grade.
He has submitted large lots in the past and received what I consider favorable grades.
Also I'd add that he is not always nice to deal with.
Those who have been waiting 6 months for grades can wait a bit longer too.
I'm a fairly large submitter and I don't get preferential speed or grades. A friend at Stacks (one of the largest submitters in the world) told me the same thing, they however apparently get preferential pricing so they can use the Express service at cheaper rates (though still more expensive than regular).
I think the coins I mentioned in post #51 might be among the 20k:
https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=4272&page=6
I only send about 300 coins a year so I definitely cop a pineapple when it comes to preferential treatment/service :angel:
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='90758' dateline='1465991425'Large submissions tend to receive favour at PCGS I reckon.
So submitting 20000 coins at once is a smart idea.
My real concern is that there will be "special" grades and lower the standards.
Based on my experience this gentleman does not know how to grade.
He has submitted large lots in the past and received what I consider favorable grades.
Also I'd add that he is not always nice to deal with.
Those who have been waiting 6 months for grades can wait a bit longer too.
I have not seen evidence that I (or any of my large competitors) get preferential grades, either. Nor are my service times any faster than others (as patient collectors can attest).
I suppose if you send over thousands of coins, you're bound to get lots of high grades, and even a quantity of MS/PR70s.
Eric
I recently did a deal with Michael Cotton. No complaints from me. We both benefitted from the transaction. Good luck to him if he can honestly make money.
I am not really concerned with Who sends coins to PCGS to be graded, What does concern me is the sheer volume that has been sent and how it will affect the market :ok:
that guy has slabbed coins for sale on eBay for $ 19.99 each and are graded at anywhere between 65 / 69 , so he must get them graded cheaper by sending them in bulk lots , or run at a loss on some of them . I don't know anything about graded coins ,so I should not comment at all , but I believe he must destroy unc and proof sets to get what he wants , and that is not my thing.
I know that is not any of my business , because they are his coins , and he can do what he wants to with them , but I can say that I still can add my 2 bits worth .
Sometimes you have to use mint set coins if you want high grades as they are
often the best examples available.I suppose we all collect in different ways
yes Steve , I agree with you , please don't misunderstand me , I am not complaining , I am just trying to explain that I would not break up a proof set to send over to the usa to be slabbed and graded , maybe a unc set if I had plenty , but not proof ones , because no return to slab after it is broken open , and the coin would not make
70 because of some small error or scratch . ,, kel ,,
That's where it becomes tricky Kel to be able to pick the sets with the best coins to
make it worthwhile breaking them out as the best graded individual coins can be worth
many multiples in value to the complete set as it was.That's what the big boys seem to be
doing these days
I would assume the majority of these coins would be decimals. Might make it affordable for new collectors (particularly kids) to set up a good quality and affordable collection:idea:
I wonder if these are among the 20k:
(http://i.imgur.com/eamKU3x.jpg)
(Currently for sale on Facebook)
fwiw, you can get some idea the average grading fee by looking at their 10-K since they are a public company
In FY15, they graded 2,067,300 coins with a declared value of $2,093.9 million. The average declared value per coin is $1,013. All amounts in USD.
"Our revenues are comprised principally of our authentication and grading service fees. Those fees range from $2 to over $10,000 per item, based primarily on the type of collectible authenticated or graded, the turnaround times and the specific service selected by the customer. We charge higher fees for faster turnaround times. Our fees are generally not based on the value of the collectible, except for special coin services sometimes requested by customers, for which we charge supplemental fees that are based on the value of the coin. In fiscal 2015, our authentication and grading fees, per item processed, for all of our businesses averaged $14.09, and our coin authentication and grading fees ranged from $2 to over $10,000, and averaged $19.07 , per coin."
The $14.09 average includes baseball cards etc. So it looks like coins are more expensive to grade than trading cards. And you can get a coin graded for as cheap as $2.
I would imagine a lot of the coins are modern coins, because their quarterly results are impacted by US mint commemorative programs like baseball hall of fame.
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/CLCT/2246907927x0xS1437749-15-16532/1089143/filing.pdf
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90834' dateline='1466063987'I wonder if these are among the 20k:
(http://i.imgur.com/eamKU3x.jpg)
(Currently for sale on Facebook)
I don't know if they are part of the 20,000 But I wouldn't touch these with a pointed stick .
I don't "Do" facelick , So what is the going rate for this type of garbage??
Quote from: 'trout' pid='90838' dateline='1466066199'So what is the going rate for this type of garbage??
Funny you should ask. They are doing quite well, currently the bid is at $30. Another similar set went for about $15 per coin. I reckon the punters might think they are errors and therefor desirable.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90839' dateline='1466066519'Quote from: 'trout' pid='90838' dateline='1466066199'So what is the going rate for this type of garbage??
Funny you should ask. They are doing quite well, currently the bid is at $30. Another similar set went for about $15 per coin. I reckon the punters might think they are errors and therefor desirable.
Unbelievable , These wouldn't see the light of day at auction and probably not even on eBay either.
It must be "Sucker City" on facelick :dodgy:
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='90813' dateline='1466047343'That's where it becomes tricky Kel to be able to pick the sets with the best coins to
make it worthwhile breaking them out as the best graded individual coins can be worth
many multiples in value to the complete set as it was.That's what the big boys seem to be
doing these days
that is true Steve , but at my age and my eye sight , I have no idea of grading and would be worthless for me to try and learn it now .
but no problem , it, all good with me . ,, kel ,,
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90839' dateline='1466066519'Quote from: 'trout' pid='90838' dateline='1466066199'So what is the going rate for this type of garbage??
Funny you should ask. They are doing quite well, currently the bid is at $30. Another similar set went for about $15 per coin. I reckon the punters might think they are errors and therefor desirable.
yes I think that the FB page is a very viable avenue to move the stuff that isn't selling
I have often seen items from certain seller/s on the FB page selling for more than what they went for unsold on ebay
a less experienced buying customer group makes it easy to move the slow selling stock
Page, try pages as there's heaps as there have been heaps of internal fights so the people that get booted from on page start up two or three more. It's very clicky that's for sure and like I've said before that's why I only buy off people I know like emu :good: So many say they're reputable but they're not.
true
I have a few pages that I am a member with and I do notice much the same sellers across the pages
they all have the same hype
going cheap
come on people
going too cheap
then they complain about the sale price
but the bigger dealers just close the deal and don't complain
that is much smarter as the customer will come back if they haven't been insulted by a snarky seller
I know this is off the original topic but I sell on Facebook. Alway set price on items. Turned over a couple of K so far. It is a whole new world with its problems
yes
have seen you there
social media is the way to go
and you don't have those seller fees
but I reckon FB will cotton on and start some sort of charging/rental system soon
fb must be turning over millions in sales every week world wide
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='90856' dateline='1466075392'but I reckon FB will cotton on and start some sort of charging/rental system soon
You can bank on that happening at some stage
hey Steve
I just saw a 1961 halfp clip (end of bar) - unc and up to $120
can you believe that? (FB page)
i'd have that up on ebay for $25 !!!
wow - up to $145 now!! wowsa
Yes I have your page marked BF :winkextra:
Yes you have to watch Stevo RG, keep a good eye on him mate :mocking:
Yes there's a lot of over inflated prices there so you have to watch it, sort of like a lot of the ego's there and the try hards that are just there to rip people off.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='90858' dateline='1466076393'hey Steve
I just saw a 1961 halfp clip (end of bar) - unc and up to $120
can you believe that? (FB page)
i'd have that up on ebay for $25 !!!
wow - up to $145 now!! wowsa
Yeah that one is a good example of a clip freshly out of a roll.I said to the seller that I couldn't believe the price so far as he had already offered it for sale at $100 to one of the bidders.I'll bet the bidder wished he had taken the deal
The mugs love errors, they think they will all end up being worth a motza.
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='90866' dateline='1466081910'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='90858' dateline='1466076393'hey Steve
I just saw a 1961 halfp clip (end of bar) - unc and up to $120
can you believe that? (FB page)
i'd have that up on ebay for $25 !!!
wow - up to $145 now!! wowsa
Yeah that one is a good example of a clip freshly out of a roll.I said to the seller that I couldn't believe the price so far as he had already offered it for sale at $100 to one of the bidders.I'll bet the bidder wished he had taken the deal
Gawd. Herd mentality at work. If they were lemmings they'd all follow each other over a cliff without a second thought.
:laugh2: that's exactly what they're like Mark, and same once they start to pick on someone they all attack like mongrel dogs, it's pretty sad so I sort of feel sorry that they share half a brain cell between them.
And it's exactly the same deal as the 2004 New Zealand 10 cent mule.They just keep rolling them out and
getting $200-$300 for them
Yes it's all a bit strange Stevo :scratch_one-s_head:
Here's a few more:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BULK-LOT-PCGS-AUSTRALIAN-COINS-MS62-ABOVE-ONLY-/272273566721
(http://i.imgur.com/ArZJXRz.jpg)
Most of them wouldn't be worth the price of grading even after they've been graded
odd listing
only 10 slabs for $250 but the buyer doesn't know what they will get ??
like a lucky dip
those sorts of sales work well on those FB pages
people seem to love the fun of a chase after something that is a 'mystery'
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='91047' dateline='1466288245'Most of them wouldn't be worth the price of grading even after they've been graded
Exactly,the balloon is going to burst with slabbed coins eventually,key dates,rare low mintage,gold/silver etc. i can understand but trying to get $25 for a coin that is worth a few cents over face value all because its in a plastic box must be the scam of the decade.
Gee I said that on this very forum years ago. I don't need to pay money for the privilege of someone else telling me what I can already do/know. Lol
I would say that all those slabs in that bulk offer are the coins that didn't make a required grade from a badly prepared Bulk submission, Extremely doubtful that they would be worth more than $5-$6 each.
Why on earth would anyone pay $25 per coin "Sight unseen" regardless of if they are slabbed or not ??
Just because a coin is in a PCGS slab doesn't make it remarkable, It is the grade given to the coin that determines the value NOT the plastic.
Many people say that why pay for someone else to grade my coins when I can do that myself, But CAN they :angel:
Before the advent of graded and encapsulated coins Many Dealers and sellers had a "Field Day" selling overgraded. cleaned/damaged and counterfeit coins (Some still do unfortunately) and these "Slabbed" coins tend to "Keep the bastards honest" even when it comes to buying Raw coins these days, Simply because of the standards applied by NGC/PCGS when grading coins and the dealers/sellers now have to compete with that sort of standard.
This is a great thing for collectors :yahoo:
devils advocate here
there are a lot of fake slabs around
that = a very high profit margin as well
Eric's bargain bin at Petersham Show is better value and you can take your pick.
May be he got them graded by PCGS for as low as $2 each.
true true
the one at the shop in Canberra is good fun too
found some excellent error coins over the years as well
but now I take gloves with me as I hate getting grotty penny hands!!
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='91115' dateline='1466422142'but now I take gloves with me as I hate getting grotty penny hands!!
I just wasted 15 Minutes on Google and it didn't show but one of the early(late 1990's early 2000's) O/S Coin Forums had a Dr. that posted and he said always wear Gloves with Copper Coins as it can cause Prostate Cancer and god knows what else,he was dead against the Copper Bracelets that people wore that was supposed help Arthritis amongst other ailments. Someone on here may know more.
Apparently they feed the Cancer Copper these days.
http://give1fordad.com/about-the-study/
I just had a look at the PCGS pop reports and it looks like 30 or more 2015, 2016 and 2016 changeover Proof sets have been graded recently.
They could be part of this batch.
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='91117' dateline='1466422813'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='91115' dateline='1466422142'but now I take gloves with me as I hate getting grotty penny hands!!
I just wasted 15 Minutes on Google and it didn't show but one of the early(late 1990's early 2000's) O/S Coin Forums had a Dr. that posted and he said always wear Gloves with Copper Coins as it can cause Prostate Cancer and god knows what else,he was dead against the Copper Bracelets that people wore that was supposed help Arthritis amongst other ailments. Someone on here may know more.
Apparently they feed the Cancer Copper these days.
http://give1fordad.com/about-the-study/
gawd
I grew up in mt isa
everything was copper
and touch wood, I haven't developed prostate cancer!! yikes
Quote from: 'trout' pid='91060' dateline='1466296496'I would say that all those slabs in that bulk offer are the coins that didn't make a required grade from a badly prepared Bulk submission, Extremely doubtful that they would be worth more than $5-$6 each.
Why on earth would anyone pay $25 per coin "Sight unseen" regardless of if they are slabbed or not ??
Just because a coin is in a PCGS slab doesn't make it remarkable, It is the grade given to the coin that determines the value NOT the plastic.
Many people say that why pay for someone else to grade my coins when I can do that myself, But CAN they :angel:
Before the advent of graded and encapsulated coins Many Dealers and sellers had a "Field Day" selling overgraded. cleaned/damaged and counterfeit coins (Some still do unfortunately) and these "Slabbed" coins tend to "Keep the bastards honest" even when it comes to buying Raw coins these days, Simply because of the standards applied by NGC/PCGS when grading coins and the dealers/sellers now have to compete with that sort of standard.
This is a great thing for collectors :yahoo:
If there were a "Like" button next to this post, I would click it.
Basil, PCGS is not a scam. Third-party grading is not a scam. And putting coins into packaging is not a scam either (ie, mint product). It's marketing. Sometimes marketing is emotional (fancy packaging from the mint, Mercedes Benz cars, etc), while other times marketing is based on providing transparency so that it is easier to deal (ie, PCGS, food health ratings, etc).
PCGS brings a professionalism to the market that cardboard 2x2s with handwriting scrawled on it never can. If anything is a scam, just think of the "buy a raw coin, dip it, and sell it at a higher grade" racket that was largely the Australian market prior to PCGS.
Eric
Eric, the scams still continue. Paid $20 on fleabay for a raw 1960 florin that the seller claimed was gem, arrived yesterday and it was a dinged and polished piece of bullion. Gave the seller a negative feedback for his (her?) blatant lying.
At least with a (first tier) slab it is hard for sellers to photoshop or trick lighting rubbish coins.
Quotebuy a raw coin, dip it, and sell it at a higher grade" racket that was largely the Australian market prior to PCGS.
This is still happening But at a greatly reduced amount and I credit this largely due to the advent of the acceptance of TPG's by Australian collectors, Also the greater use of the internet by collectors and the "Networking" that forums like this one that provides the information that helps collectors to be more aware of how to look for this cleaning and general doctoring and over grading that is still "out There".
many sellers/dealers are acutely aware of this "Networking" and have pulled their heads in because they know that if they screw over too many collectors that eventually the word will get out and their enterprises will suffer at the end of the day.
With all this happening the days of the "Shine em up and Flog em off Mob" are pretty much Numbered :good:
Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='91305' dateline='1466669340'Basil, PCGS is not a scam. Third-party grading is not a scam. And putting coins into packaging is not a scam either (ie, mint product). It's marketing. Sometimes marketing is emotional (fancy packaging from the mint, Mercedes Benz cars, etc), while other times marketing is based on providing transparency so that it is easier to deal (ie, PCGS, food health ratings, etc).
PCGS brings a professionalism to the market that cardboard 2x2s with handwriting scrawled on it never can. If anything is a scam, just think of the "buy a raw coin, dip it, and sell it at a higher grade" racket that was largely the Australian market prior to PCGS.
Eric
Eric,i didn't say that,they're your words.
Slabbing is here to stay and will only grow stronger for the reasons you have listed,also with the market being flooded with fakes it increases the value and gives the owner peace of mind that the coin has been verified by a Pro.grader.
I was referring to the growing cottage industry of Slabbing coins that are basically worth face value and magically,because its in a plastic box and given a grade that blind Freddy could do,its suddenly worth hundreds of times its actual value,that's not marketing,its a Con.Sellers(as opposed to collectors) in the majority of cases aren't getting them Slabbed because of storeage/aesthetics reasons or they want to know the grade,they are doing it to jump on the bandwagon and make some money.
Its a scam that people are taking advantage of whilst Slabs are in a Honeymoon period and the flavour of the Month.MPO is market forces and just plain reality will eventually come into force and these particular Slabs will have a market value less the original Slabbing fees.
The $25 prices in the OP is relatively mild compared to some smarties that are clogging Ebay.A few Months back there was a PCGS Oz.2015 5c with a $80 price and a snake oil spiel to match"5c coins are being discontinued" ,get it while you can etc.
Anyway that my 2c view on the situation based on over 50 years in the Industry,anyway "a fool and his money'' and all that,no skin off my back on what people buy but i won't be getting on the Bandwagon..
There are TPG's and then there are TPG's like our friend in port (no not interest :mocking: ) FB is a prime example how you can pull the wool over peoples eyes with slabs and slabbing everything and anything.
Maybe this is the sort of slab required for some of those dubious coins. (Give the neighbourhood kids a stick and they will indelibly engrave the grade, as well as their names and, probably, some rude messages.)
(https://manishasahu.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/concrete-slab.jpg?w=620)
:mafia:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91329' dateline='1466729278'There are TPG's and then there are TPG's like our friend in port (no not interest :mocking: )
DON'T BLAME ME!!! haven't been here long enough to get my own coins organized,
does this guy run a shop front?
Hard to say but it seems so, it's all too confusing for me to keep up :blink:
From my limited experience with slabbed coins I have noticed that most of the responsible dealers/sellers either sell their TPG failures in their bargain bins or put them up on eBay with a 99c start and let the buyers decide what they are worth.
Nothing wrong with that and no BS involved.
Quote from: 'interest' pid='91344' dateline='1466741819'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91329' dateline='1466729278'There are TPG's and then there are TPG's like our friend in port (no not interest :mocking: )
DON'T BLAME ME!!! haven't been here long enough to get my own coins organized,
does this guy run a shop front?
Sort of shop, its an "Estate Jewlery" type shop on the ground floor
of Port Central Shopping Centre, Colonial Arcade I think.
There ya go interest, thank FP :good: I'd heard he had a shop but wasn't solely coins but couldn't remember being the sieve I am.
Shop 5 Colonial Arcade - Gold and Coin Shop.
Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/Gold-And-Coin-Shop-1520836551560877/
who are we talking about here?
apcgs
well their shop that's in port but it's more jewellery by the look of things and not coins.
I like jewellery
a few coin shops do that sort of stuff I think
they buy gold & silver etc and sell on for a tidy profit
Well I'd be very surprised if you didn't like jewellery RG :blush2:
I used to deal with the gold and coin shop in port many years ago. It was run by a lady ( can't remember her name). She sold out to the current owner. Anyway I had a 1923 hour slabbed by apcgs that was on the gold and coin shop website even though I owned it. I rang them and asked them to remove it. I was given the run around about it. I then sold the coin and a few weeks later my buyer rang me and asked why his coin was on the gold and coin website. Told him my story and he tried to get it removed and was given the run around. I know there is some connection between the gold and coin shop and apcgs . I don't know what it is but my 1923 hp experience just makes me wary. I often see apcgs slabs on eBay under the title Pcgs which is dodge as.
Quote from: 'Fordprefect' pid='91366' dateline='1466766531'Quote from: 'interest' pid='91344' dateline='1466741819'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91329' dateline='1466729278'There are TPG's and then there are TPG's like our friend in port (no not interest :mocking: )
DON'T BLAME ME!!! haven't been here long enough to get my own coins organized,
does this guy run a shop front?
Sort of shop, its an "Estate Jewlery" type shop on the ground floor
of Port Central Shopping Centre, Colonial Arcade I think.
Yep I've seen the place, just had a very quick look inside but really didn't take any time there.
Shall have a good look next time I'm in town.
For the last week or so I haven't seen any World coins graded showing up on the "Shared Submissions" page at PCGS.
Looks like we will still have a fair wait to see our submissions finalised.
I have a few coins here that I want to have graded for my set registry But at the moment I can't be bothered having to wait the extra month or so in the queue.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='91395' dateline='1466775069'I used to deal with the gold and coin shop in port many years ago. It was run by a lady ( can't remember her name). She sold out to the current owner. Anyway I had a 1923 hour slabbed by apcgs that was on the gold and coin shop website even though I owned it. I rang them and asked them to remove it. I was given the run around about it. I then sold the coin and a few weeks later my buyer rang me and asked why his coin was on the gold and coin website. Told him my story and he tried to get it removed and was given the run around. I know there is some connection between the gold and coin shop and apcgs . I don't know what it is but my 1923 hp experience just makes me wary. I often see apcgs slabs on eBay under the title Pcgs which is dodge as.
yep dodgey as mate I hear you :dodgy:
clean up crew :)
ha ha
APCGS is Shane William and the jewellery shop is either his or his parents or something so that should say enough.
Gee what a pain trout, you might have to send them to AJPCGS..I might even give you a discount being the father company :mocking:
Be firm but fair A.J. :angel:
Always Robster :good:
QuoteGee what a pain trout, you might have to send them to AJPCGS..I might even give you a discount being the father company Mocking
All jokes aside, IF there was a reliable and respected Australian TPG I would transfer ALL my business to them in a Heart Beat :ok:
A lot of us would mate, it's just getting one.
PCGS slabs is the industry standard
Eric from Drake Sterling will look after you with submissions
As a matter of interest there were about 49000 Australian coins graded in the last
12 months by PCGS so Micheal has almost half the Australian market which is quite amazing
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91402' dateline='1466781093'APCGS ....................................
Said fellow is apparently threatening to start legal action on posters on CCF for Slander,or something like that,he posted the threat on FB and a guy posted a copy on CCF late last night but its been taken down.
Not much can be said Basil about some people and dreaming :winkextra:
Spewin I missed all the action :blink:
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='91713' dateline='1467262727'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91402' dateline='1466781093'APCGS ....................................
Said fellow is apparently threatening to start legal action on posters on CCF for Slander,or something like that,he posted the threat on FB and a guy posted a copy on CCF late last night but its been taken down.
it is a very different world to day with the internet
a forum becomes a permanent conversation
something people might just say casually but in the written form
but it makes it easy for someone to have ' evidence' for a slander/liable case (ex the delete button)
although, we need legal advice here as i believe that when the person claims the said liable etc they have to prove that they have been or will be somehow disadvantaged by the statements / comments
some business people only really have a social media customer base and these are the ones who greatly at risk of the ebbs and flows of the personalities within the social media group/s as well
it would make it hard to express opinions say here and then be fearful of consequences i.e. a liable case and the likes
the coin collecting game is like a lot of things where we collectors have our opinions - and nothing more than that
i might day something is e/f and the next posters says no it's v/f
just opinions and we both believe with our reasonable insight and knowledge that each of us is right - not a matter worthy of suing anyone
thankfully, the mods here keep a close eye on chatter and rope it in when necessary
http://www.lawstuff.org.au/sa_law/topics/defamation
Defences to defamation:
Publishing something which might seem defamatory won't be against the law if:
the information is substantially true,
the information is published with the consent of the person being defamed, or
the information wasn't very important and it is unlikely that the person's reputation will actually be damaged.
i think we would be fine!!
Like I've said before there is NO freedom of speak and that's all BS that they're going on about on FB :dash1:
I see ccf doesn't have any balls and took down the thread so there's another really good reason not to go to ccf any more as there wasn't anything there and all the units on FB are all suckin up his @$$ trying to hope to get coins slabbed cheaper because "it's an australian company", well if he's so good why does he have to ride on the coat tails of a well known company. I like how the lot of FB say they're all reputable people but they're scum that will rip you off real quick and I know that as fact as one member on there bought a half penny at the last sydney anda I was at knowing it was fake and then bragged that he was going to sell it on FB and he did, he did give a refund but only after another person told the buyer what was going on so to me they aren't doing the coin game any favours and saying they'll sue is a joke in it's self when they're so underhanded and that's why people get disheartened with coin collecting so quickly :( I could go on for ages but really what's the point as no one cares, just look at FB as a prime eg.
Oh and they all think that because he wrote CEO that he has people grading for him and to my knowledge he doesn't, it just him self or can someone name ANYONE that helps him grade, very suss having one person grading and it's not how it should be done. Ok end rant..for now :)
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='91713' dateline='1467262727'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91402' dateline='1466781093'APCGS ....................................
Said fellow is apparently threatening to start legal action on posters on CCF for Slander,or something like that,he posted the threat on FB and a guy posted a copy on CCF late last night but its been taken down.
You can't sue for slander if it's true.
Eric
Yes very true Eric :good:
And if your like me and have sweet FA it will cost a lot for nothing unless they're happy to get paid back at $5 a fortnight.
Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='91721' dateline='1467296072'Quote from: 'Basil' pid='91713' dateline='1467262727'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91402' dateline='1466781093'APCGS ....................................
Said fellow is apparently threatening to start legal action on posters on CCF for Slander,or something like that,he posted the threat on FB and a guy posted a copy on CCF late last night but its been taken down.
You can't sue for slander if it's true.
Eric
No, you are mistaken. You can be sued for slander (or libel) even if the facts are true. The aim being not to win compensation but to financially drain and/or intimidate you. So even if you successfully defend yourself you might be down tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars paying for your lawyer (and perhaps a barrister and a QC) and the costs of appeals etc. Even if you win and beat the defamation case you are still out of pocket. Are your pockets as deep as your opponent?
What a joke, and shows how screwed up the system really is. I'm flat out paying for rego on the DSP so glad it costs them heaps to get nothing or how do they get their money if the person has none :scratch_one-s_head:
Please watch what you say in this thread. I have no desire to be sued by the person in question, regardless of the accuracy of your words or not.
Interesting that CCF only removed the legal threat rather than the material that the threat referred to. It would also be interesting to see such a legal threat pursued against web site owners in a different country, with the supposed defamatory content hosted on a site that's in another country too. I suspect the threat is much more easily made than carried through with.
Too true Mark. It takes very little effort or cost to make a threat and nothing lost if it has no affect.
If you consult a solicitor about taking action against someone for a perceived grievance what is the first thing they do? Write a letter threatening legal action if satisfaction not forthcoming -even if they have advised you that legal action may not be recommended.
I'm trying to be good Mark :blush2: So please feel free to delete any comment where you feel I might have crossed that invisible line as I wouldn't want to get you, PP or any of the mods in trouble :friends:
OK clean up crew is going to tidy up my posts!!
:)
(http://pearlfmradio.sx/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CLEAN_UP_CREW_LOGO_no_text.jpg)
:taunt:
when our little dogs were alive and food was dropped - the hubby would call out - 'clean up crew' and the dogs would come running in!
Thanks peoples. Much appreciated.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91718' dateline='1467292990'Not much can be said Basil about some people and dreaming :winkextra:
Spewin I missed all the action :blink:
I just got back from a 4 day fishing trip last night and also "Missed out" on what happened here :dash1:
Any chance of someone sending me a PM with a link to the particular CCF thread ?? :)
Can you get a small satellite or something trout so you can combine both your hobbies and never be out of touch with ACF and CCF. I had a look for the thread in question but couldn't find it, probably just scuttlebutt.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='91852' dateline='1467494528'I just got back from a 4 day fishing trip last night and also "Missed out" on what happened here :dash1:
Any chance of someone sending me a PM with a link to the particular CCF thread ?? :)
A guy has threatened legal action because of all the bad 'press' on CCF about himself and his Coin grading service.He posted the threat on FB and a guy posted a copy on CCF,this post was removed by CCF.I can't find the posted threat on FB either so perhaps that's been removed as well.
The threat is still on Facebook
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='91858' dateline='1467501860'Quote from: 'trout' pid='91852' dateline='1467494528'I just got back from a 4 day fishing trip last night and also "Missed out" on what happened here :dash1:
Any chance of someone sending me a PM with a link to the particular CCF thread ?? :)
A guy has threatened legal action because of all the bad 'press' on CCF about himself and his Coin grading service.He posted the threat on FB and a guy posted a copy on CCF,this post was removed by CCF.I can't find the posted threat on FB either so perhaps that's been removed as well.
Same old same old.:dash1:
If a product was good and the quality was consistent then there would be GOOD press and that applies to ANY product.
If a product was bad and the quality was inconsistent the press will be BAD and that also applies to any product Be it fish fingers or a coin grading service. :ok:
There is a particular grading service that has been "Built Up" on facebook because the attempts to promote it on various coin forums failed miserably because of the assembled numismatic knowledge in these forums .
Many of the people that use this service are fully aware that the grades are normally pretty "Generous" and many "Problem" coins are overlooked and they sell these at the same values as a PCGS graded coin would achieve.
As with most Dodgy operations the perpetrators always scream and snarl when they are "Sprung" about it , This is what is happening here and has been for quite some time.
Maybe a few complaints to Consumer affairs would make them pull their heads in. :ok:
I just looked at the PCGS pop report and saw that 5 of each of the Playschool coins have been graded already.
These coins were released a long time after my submissions were received by PCGS and one of these submissions is an "Express" submission.
So it looks like someone is getting preferential treatment by PCGS, I wonder if it has something to do with this 20,000 bulk lot :dodgy:
Also the population numbers of what I suspect are coins from the in come the dollars/cents sets have also grown in the last few days.
I've noticed an increase in PCGS slabs coming up for sale on Facebook in the last week.
Quite a few in come the cents sets seem to have been broken up and sold on Ebay.
Pedro
Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='91925' dateline='1467583714'Quite a few in come the cents sets seem to have been broken up and sold on Ebay.
Pedro
If buying these single coins it pays to check if the seller has and graded coins from the same sets for sale. :ok:
Jim , that is a common thing that the big guys do ..
one of them is the guy from Brisbane that sends coins over to the states in bulk for slabbing and grading .
Quote from: 'keldaw' pid='91953' dateline='1467607783'Jim , that is a common thing that the big guys do ..
one of them is the guy from Brisbane that sends coins over to the states in bulk for slabbing and grading .
It is best not to mention any names in the Forum Kel, As some of these people get a bit Knarky when people know about their little "Secrets" and share that information :ok:
The turnaround times at PCGS have slipped even further back now, These guys are really getting Snowed Under.
I am hoping that the pressure of trying to catch up isn't going to affect the quality of the product But that is what usually happens in this sort of situation.
I have about 50 coins that I want to have graded and I am seriously considering using NGC instead of PCGS at this point in time.
Not only because of the lack of customer service or the ridiculously slow turnaround times either.
My last submission had the usual "Mechanical" error and that didn't concern me as much as an environmentally damaged coin that slipped through the cracks and was graded MS68 did.
Also if this 20,000 coin submission becomes a successful venture then we can only expect more of the same .
This is why NGC is starting to look pretty good to me at the moment :ok:
Could always send them to AJPCGS :blush2: :mocking:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='92057' dateline='1467761948'Could always send them to AJPCGS :blush2: :mocking:
Their turnaround times are getting shorter
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='92060' dateline='1467762484'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='92057' dateline='1467761948'Could always send them to AJPCGS :blush2: :mocking:
Their turnaround times are getting shorter
Even the US turnaround times have increased.
What they put on the page as their turnaround times and what is actually happening are 2 different things.
I have had an "Express" submission sitting at PCGS since 13/5 thats nearly 2 months for a 10 day turnaround.
My turnaround time is about 1/2 a second if my back isn't playing up :laugh2: Oh sorry you were talking about how long t get your coin back, my mistake :blush2:
I'm happy to be part of TPG team (trouts's professional graders) :laugh2:
I have just renewed my NGC membership and this entitles me to $150 worth of submissions again.
I haven't had a coin graded by NGC for a few years but I have been a member since 2011 and haven't taken advantage of the free submissions in quite a while.
I have put together a small submission of an "in come the dollars/cents" set and a Specimen Captain Cook coin and will post this off tomorrow.
It will be interesting to see how long this submission takes and if they attribute the Cook coin correctly.
After $150 is taken into account these 7 coins will cost me $5 to be graded and this includes return shipping as well :ok:
Good on you trout, hope it goes well. Meanwhile the slabs keep coming on FB. The bidding on these is currently $130:
(http://i.imgur.com/4EXQwG1.jpg)
Are the people over there on facelick completely Stupid ???
Hasn't anyone made the observation that all these coins are common grade coins from rolls and that none of them are particularly scarce??
I have seen similar offerings from our friend fortymillion on eBay with expensive price tags on common grade sets in the past.
It really annoys me to think that my submissions are being bogged down because of this sort of Crap .
Well what did you expect Jim ? That all coins graded by PCGS are worth the price of the plastic .Not likely but on the
other side of the coin there are people selling their scarce PCGS graded coins for a lot less than they should be but each
to their own.It would be a pretty boring world if we were all the same and unfortunately some people just don't get it
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='92125' dateline='1467850055'Well what did you expect Jim ? That all coins graded by PCGS are worth the price of the plastic .Not likely but on the
other side of the coin there are people selling their scarce PCGS graded coins for a lot less than they should be but each
to their own.It would be a pretty boring world if we were all the same and unfortunately some people just don't get it
I do realise that people make stuff ups when they send in submissions and most of us here have done exactly that on occasion.
From what I can make out on the cert numbers this 10 coin offering looks like the result of a bulk submission and these are some of the "Dregs" from a badly pre graded submission.
I can make out the 8005 at the start of the cert numbers and if you look up the cert #'s 80050002 upwards to 80054567 and numbers in between you will notice that many are common Australian decimals and most of them are pretty average grades.
This looks to me like a part of this 20,000 coin submission because the odds of a large block of cert #'s like this all being Australian decimals from different submissions is pretty slim.
I just had a look at cert #'s 80050044 through to 80050063.
All are 1994 Year of the family Wide date coins and it looks like they are all from a single roll.
Here is the breakdown of the grades achieved;
1x MS66 Bluesheet value $12
10x MS65 Bluesheet value $5 each
5x MS64 Bluesheet value $2 each
4x details coins
If this is indicative of the rest of this huge submission then it was very badly put together and we can expect to see a flood of low grade slabs on the market in the near future.
but these 'low grade' slabs might be very appealing to the average collector who wants to put a nice set together for the kids
what's wrong with that?
most collectors aren't the higher end collectors
Doesn't a flood of low grades make the high grades stand out as special? Not much bragging rights when you have say the third best coin when only 5 have been graded but if a few hundred low grades get slabbed then you now have a coin in the top 1%
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92126' dateline='1467851881'If this is indicative of the rest of this huge submission then it was very badly put together and we can expect to see a flood of low grade slabs on the market in the near future.
As i posted in the other Thread low grade Slabs are everywhere at the moment and there is a market unfortunately,reminds me of the late 1960's when people were paying ridiculous $ for pre.Dec Coins.
I'm confident there will be Market correction in the next year or 2 when people realise,in the case of many Decimal coins,the Coin in the Slab is basically worth face value.
QuoteI'm confident there will be Market correction in the next year or 2 when people realise,in the case of many Decimal coins,the Coin in the Slab is basically worth face value
Maybe this perception will carry over to the high graded coins as well:angel:
Still think you are better off putting up with longer turnaround time that going with NGC if PCGS can get you better prices when you come to sell up. So what if you have to wait several weeks more. What's the hurry?
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='92132' dateline='1467859269'Still think you are better off putting up with longer turnaround time that going with NGC if PCGS can get you better prices when you come to sell up. So what if you have to wait several weeks more. What's the hurry?
It isn't only the turnaround times that is giving me cause for concern with PCGS as of late.
My last submission to be graded did take 49 working days to be finalised and it contained 4 wrongly attributed coins and one of those was environmentally damaged and yet still got a MS68 grade .
This gives me cause for concern as to wither or not the rest of the submission has been graded correctly.
Rightly or wrongly there IS a perception amongst Australian collectors that NGC graded coins are graded 1 point higher than an equivalent PCGs graded coin.
If this is the case then if I send a MS66 coin into NGC to be graded then it will come back in a MS67 slab which will then be valued as a MS66 coin on the Australian market :ok:
I can't see a problem with this scenario at all and I won't have to put up with crappy customer service and my turnaround times will not only be faster but cheaper as well.
With the influx of large numbers of low grade cheap PCGS slabs about to hit the market and if this is a success for these large scale submitters then there will only be more of the same then the perception of PCGS being the top tier grading company may change as a result.
The PCGS brand may become associated and perceived as source of low grade cheap coins and this can only be harmful to the values of the high grade PCGS graded coins by this association.
Just airing some thoughts here as at the moment it is really a case of wait and see what happens :ok:
The PCGS brand may become associated and perceived as source of low grade cheap coins and this can only be harmful to the values of the high grade PCGS graded coins by this association.
I hadn't thought of it that way
good point though
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92133' dateline='1467861587'The PCGS brand may become associated and perceived as source of low grade cheap coins and this can only be harmful to the values of the high grade PCGS graded coins by this association.
Theoretically possible but I reckon we are a long way from that. Besides there is already a TPG that fulfills that function.
I talk to a few people now and then and some say pcgs have dropped their standard and not grading as hard as they have in previous years so maybe I should get some coins regraded and I would if it wasn't so bloody dear as it's an expensive exercise.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='92129' dateline='1467855065'Doesn't a flood of low grades make the high grades stand out as special? Not much bragging rights when you have say the third best coin when only 5 have been graded but if a few hundred low grades get slabbed then you now have a coin in the top 1%
I agree with this Neal. I think this increase in supply at the lower end is generally a good thing, not just for the reasons you indicated, but also because it allows more collectors to start collecting lower-end certified coins - especially if these low-grade decimals are eventually resold at affordable levels (less than $10 each, I suppose).
Eric
QuoteI talk to a few people now and then and some say pcgs have dropped their standard and not grading as hard as they have in previous years
I don't think the grading standards have dropped at all, PCGS has always been pretty consistent and accurate :ok:
I do believe however that their "Mechanical Errors" are on the increase.
QuoteI agree with this Neal. I think this increase in supply at the lower end is generally a good thing, not just for the reasons you indicated, but also because it allows more collectors to start collecting lower-end certified coins - especially if these low-grade decimals are eventually resold at affordable levels (less than $10 each, I suppose).
:agreed:
But what If a new collector assumes that just because a coin is in a slab they are "Special" or "Rare" and pays far too much for it.
There are a few sellers that are putting outlandish prices on these lower graded slabs and the unaware/uneducated punters are actually buying them.
This can only be detrimental to the hobby in the long run.
'Buyer beware'. Surely a new collector would do some basic research before spending money on a slab. Forums like this offer plenty of good information. A simple search on Ebay would also allow price comparisons with so many on offer! (Off to buy a Ferrari). :angel:
Make sure it's a MS or PR ...... RD ..... Robster, they go faster. Especially if you're slabbed. :laugh2:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92237' dateline='1468019479'QuoteI talk to a few people now and then and some say pcgs have dropped their standard and not grading as hard as they have in previous years
I don't think the grading standards have dropped at all, PCGS has always been pretty consistent and accurate :ok:
I do believe however that their "Mechanical Errors" are on the increase.
QuoteI agree with this Neal. I think this increase in supply at the lower end is generally a good thing, not just for the reasons you indicated, but also because it allows more collectors to start collecting lower-end certified coins - especially if these low-grade decimals are eventually resold at affordable levels (less than $10 each, I suppose).
:agreed:
But what If a new collector assumes that just because a coin is in a slab they are "Special" or "Rare" and pays far too much for it.
There are a few sellers that are putting outlandish prices on these lower graded slabs and the unaware/uneducated punters are actually buying them.
This can only be detrimental to the hobby in the long run.
We can't go around trying to protect everyone from themselves. Fortunately, for these coins, we aren't talking about large sums of money (unlike the Rare Coin Company debacle).
Sometimes losing money is the most effective education - especially if it's a large enough sum to hurt but not large enough to discourage further collecting in the future.
Eric
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92237' dateline='1468019479':agreed:
But what If a new collector assumes that just because a coin is in a slab they are "Special" or "Rare" and pays far too much for it.
There are a few sellers that are putting outlandish prices on these lower graded slabs and the unaware/uneducated punters are actually buying them.
This can only be detrimental to the hobby in the long run.
I don't think you should be so precious about new buyers as they have to work it out for themselves and research is the key otherwise where do you draw the line.Do you not buy a cheap coin from a seller because they are a new seller and selling too cheap?
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='92240' dateline='1468030803'Make sure it's a MS or PR ...... RD ..... Robster, they go faster. Especially if you're slabbed. :laugh2:
I found one that had been burnt out and crushed! Now I can tell my mates I have a Ferrari in the shed. :angel:
We were all new buyers once and made some stupid purchases. You learn from the experience and also tend to work out that concentrating on some specific area(s) will get you knowledge quicker -then you can expand your horizons if you so desire. I suspect it is a similar learning process with other types of collecting too.
If the Ferrari has been crushed to a cube get a glass top and you will have an interesting table that is also a talking point.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='92246' dateline='1468041076'We were all new buyers once and made some stupid purchases. You learn from the experience and also tend to work out that concentrating on some specific area(s) will get you knowledge quicker -then you can expand your horizons if you so desire. I suspect it is a similar learning process with other types of collecting too.
I agree with this, PPH and I still snicker about some of the terrible NCLT we bought back in the day. We still buy a bit today but because we like the theme, not because it is an 'investment'.
The trouble with coin collecting is that it's pretty much intertwined with "making a profit" and new collectors are easily enticed into making (what they perceive to be) a great deal. So, keywords like "RARE" or "LOW MINTAGE" tend to suck them in fairly easily, and hucksters on certain Facebook groups make a pretty $$ out of selling to such. You can only hope that the new collectors are not burned so badly that they drop out of collecting all together, but rather they accept their losses, take a step back and draw breath and re-evaluate and start collecting for the fun. Rather than the profit.
Yes indeed; only buy because you like it and/or it complements your collection -profit is then a welcome bonus if you ever decide to sell.
Plenty of keen collectors eventually amass a valuable collection by collecting with their heart and not their head. Especially so when they concentrate on a specific theme which may not necessarily be popular when they start but comes into vogue later.
Investment collectors often have their fingers burnt (but usually make good money for dealers and some dealers encourage that with unrealistic promises).
If the Ferrari has been crushed to a cube get a glass top and you will have an interesting table that is also a talking point.
[/quote]
Might encase it in clear resin along with the 1930 Penny featured last week! :angel:
Yes :agreed: "low" mintage's and how on FB especially they think 10 million is a low mintage, yes it is low when you compare them to 100 million+ but anything in the millions isn't really low mintage, well not in my book anyway so if they want to collect low mintage they should be buying either pre decimal coin or coins with a mintage of 5,000 or less. Yes you see a lot of that on FB Mark and if you say anything they get quite annoyed as I've has them have a little dummy spit at me but I don't care :)
Yes buy the coin because you like it or it helps your set, or if your a cheap bastard like me and set a price you can afford at the time, eg wedding sets when I first started on them as I wouldn't pay any more that $50 including post so that was about half of issue price and some I got even cheaper. It's definitely a hobby that you do for the love and not to make money even though you can make money if you play your cards right but most will not.
You need to learn how to drive Robster :blink: :mocking:
Araldite the penny to the floor just outside your front door and be amused by watching people try to pick it up.
Actually don't use a 1930 penny; a nice shiny 50ยข coins works well.
:laugh2: your an evil man Jeff but I like it :) You see them from time to time here and there.
have these started to appear on the facebook pages Yet?
A few of the usual suspects have them listed on eBay but not that many of them.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93358' dateline='1469718331'have these started to appear on the facebook pages Yet?
I thought there was an initial flurry on FB but the numbers don't seem to be there in a sustained manner.
Maybe the shipping container hasn't arrived yet :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93364' dateline='1469738968'Maybe the shipping container hasn't arrived yet :angel:
I just saw on FB, a seller has 1k slabs for sale @ $20 each:
(http://i.imgur.com/Jv0khA9.jpg)
Probably 50 c value coins in a $20 slab :dodgy:
There goes the neighbourhood :laugh2:
Am I missing something or are they all very old slabs :scratch_one-s_head:
Maybe they're fake :shock:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='95222' dateline='1471726572'Am I missing something or are they all very old slabs :scratch_one-s_head:
Maybe they're fake :shock:
I doubt that they are old/fake .
They look like the standard slab, not the "secure" slabs.
Our 20000 slab man is putting 1500 of them on numisbid shortly so it will
be interesting to see what this does to the prices
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='95224' dateline='1471731223'Our 20000 slab man is putting 1500 of them on numisbid shortly so it will
be interesting to see what this does to the prices
Pre decimal or decimal coins Stevo?
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='95226' dateline='1471732638'Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='95224' dateline='1471731223'Our 20000 slab man is putting 1500 of them on numisbid shortly so it will
be interesting to see what this does to the prices
Pre decimal or decimal coins Stevo?
Not sure AP but I suspect they'll be mostly decimal
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='95227' dateline='1471733268'Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='95226' dateline='1471732638'Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='95224' dateline='1471731223'Our 20000 slab man is putting 1500 of them on numisbid shortly so it will
be interesting to see what this does to the prices
Pre decimal or decimal coins Stevo?
Not sure AP but I suspect they'll be mostly decimal
Cool, thanks mate... I got excited thinking will be able to buy some cheap high grade pre decimal coins :angel:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='95222' dateline='1471726572'Am I missing something or are they all very old slabs :scratch_one-s_head:
Maybe they're fake :shock:
I dont think they have any connection to Michael Cotton but I'm pretty sure this guy David Van Breda is a dealer though
There is only one way the prices can go on numisbid with this much supply around :angel:
which page are they on? happy for a PM to advise can't see the ad
Quote from: 'trout' pid='95220' dateline='1471718256'Probably 50 c value coins in a $20 slab :dodgy:
There goes the neighbourhood :laugh2:
Worth more than that. There are silver coins (shillings and sixpence?) in that image so worth a couple of dollars. But MS63 for common date QE2 are not worth slabbing and not worth $20. And I thought our predecimals have to go Secure and not Standard?
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95231' dateline='1471735727'which page are they on? happy for a PM to advise can't see the ad
The name of the group is:
Australian Coins, Banknotes, Collectables - Buy Swap Sell
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1558870937724345/
oh ta
I am a member there too
i think I am a member of few coin selling pages but I get a bit confuddled just where I am and where they are ha ha
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='95234' dateline='1471738572'Quote from: 'trout' pid='95220' dateline='1471718256'Probably 50 c value coins in a $20 slab :dodgy:
There goes the neighbourhood :laugh2:
Worth more than that. There are silver coins (shillings and sixpence?) in that image so worth a couple of dollars. But MS63 for common date QE2 are not worth slabbing and not worth $20. And I thought our predecimals have to go Secure and not Standard?
There is wriggle room with bulk submissions.
can't find the ad
ho hum .. story of my life
but found some other interesting for sale ads!!
I think you are all failing to see the wood for the trees. This is good for the graded coin market. It lowers the entry point to below grading cost for people who wish to put a set together for the set registry on a budget. This hopefully means more fresh blood getting into numismatics and gradually improving their stuff as their means improve. After all today's generation is all about being online and nothing plays to that more than online set registries.
Remember low grade coins are a gateway drug to top pops.
I 100% agree with you Serial
it will help to establish a firmer collector market
i started by buying old penny sets and now i hunt for the single uncs - no different
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95239' dateline='1471742925'can't find the ad
It was more of a promo for an upcoming sale. The nature of facebook is that it could be gone already or buried at the bottom of a page full of ads and all kinds of nonsense.
oh ta
found it !!
scroll scroll scroll
not by name search - that didn't work
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95241' dateline='1471743957'I 100% agree with you Serial
it will help to establish a firmer collector market
i started by buying old penny sets and now i hunt for the single uncs - no different
Exactly, I started by getting some round 50's , now I spend thousands on coins, these coins will get people into slabbed coins
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95241' dateline='1471743957'I 100% agree with you Serial
it will help to establish a firmer collector market
i started by buying old penny sets and now i hunt for the single uncs - no different
And that also applies to me. Purchased my first slabs just 3 years ago (PCGS AU55 1924 penny, NGC AU58 Canberra and PCGS AU55 1937 Crown). Those slabs were fairly cheap and I was happy with them. Since then I've added over 100 slabs to my collection and only 3 of them are below MS62 (harder dates and an error coin).
Not a chance back then would I consider spending 10 to 1000 times bullion value on a single coin, now I don't blink.
My first slab was.. wait for it.....................
Was an APCGS 1960 Florin in MS67... I bought few more of the APCGS thinking they were PCGS.. To make things worse, I was looking at Blue Sheet and bidding on the coins accordingly.... After 3 months I realized how dumb I was... anyways thats old news... I think I have about 250 slabs now.. I agree with the guys.. I have gone from spending$50-$100 to lot more $$$$$..
3 years ago I didn't have a single slabbed coin, now I have about 1350 slabbed coins and 114 set registries of which 23 are complete
I also think in 2 years I will have tripled that
I have recently started collecting sovereigns and half sovs and all this started 4 years ago with a single round 50.
cheap slabs are good for numismatics more than anything ram pumps out
If you really think that tricking new collectors into buying rather ordinary coins at inflated prices just because they are slabbed is a Good thing, Then I have to disagree.
Quote from: 'serial' pid='95256' dateline='1471785365'3 years ago I didn't have a single slabbed coin, now I have about 1350 slabbed coins and 114 set registries of which 23 are complete
I also think in 2 years I will have tripled that
Nooooo![/b] I'll never beat you at that rate. I'll have to get busy:ebay:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='95258' dateline='1471788509'If you really think that tricking new collectors into buying rather ordinary coins at inflated prices just because they are slabbed is a Good thing, Then I have to disagree.
I'm not gonna go so far as to say its a good thing but then again I can't see the harm in it. What are the "rather ordinary" coins and if $20 is an inflated price, what would be a fair?
Here is another current facebook sale, these coins in a bulk lot for $110:
1961(m) shilling ms64
1946(m) shilling au58
1979 10c ms64
1979 20c ms65
1979 5c ms65
1962(m) 6d ms63
Is this the kind of ordinary coins at inflated prices you mean?
Yes.
If these were raw $20 would be about right not $110.
All of these are from the bulk submissions, most of the sellers mentioned buy from the bulk guy or sell on commission for him. There is basically a monopoly of these on Facebook, I just sold 500 to a seller on there for $6ea, no doubt they will make more but they cost me less.
I guess if you can make money selling slabs at $6 then $20 is somewhat inflated. I need to stop thinking about the $30 each I paid to slab my own coins.
Its pretty common for big submitters to bulk offload the mistakes for whatever you can get and focus on selling those which will make you the money, but if you can buy 500 of these mistake slabs for say $5ea and turn around the next day and sell them for $6ea who am I to say no. Its the easiest $500 you will make.
Most collectors wont approach it like this as they have limited resources and coins so spending $30 to grade a half decent coin is still a good idea, just don't get confused as to what is a reject slab and what isnt and collectors should be fine :) Bulk submitters often have to submit rolls unchecked so failures are common, collectors check each any every coin they submit and evaluate for themselves if its worth it.
The fact we have catered for the entry level collectors at such a low price point is also a positive, the more who collect the more who are likely to want to upgrade their collections and the more sales we enjoy.
Quote from: 'Cockatoo Coins' pid='95263' dateline='1471814469'All of these are from the bulk submissions, most of the sellers mentioned buy from the bulk guy or sell on commission for him. There is basically a monopoly of these on Facebook, I just sold 500 to a seller on there for $6ea, no doubt they will make more but they cost me less.
How can it be cash flow positive to sell slabs at that price? Maybe you purchased at $5 and sold at $6 but the guy who slabbed them has to be losing a few thousand dollars as the slabbing fees (even if highly discounted for bulk) must have been a few quid.
If the graders can fully evaluate coins in 14 seconds to give a precise grade surely the seller could do a rough evaluation on say 1000 coins in an arvo and reject these 500 to save a few grand.
I have no idea what the actual cost of those 500 "reject slabs" was but I'm struggling to make sense of it. I don't think its bad for coin collecting apart from gumming up the works at PCGS for my submission. I guess these failures are more obvious because they are appearing in bulk on facebook. Maybe the success stories have not hit the market as yet or they are being sold individually by auction etc. and are not so prominent.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='95275' dateline='1471830307'Quote from: 'Cockatoo Coins' pid='95263' dateline='1471814469'All of these are from the bulk submissions, most of the sellers mentioned buy from the bulk guy or sell on commission for him. There is basically a monopoly of these on Facebook, I just sold 500 to a seller on there for $6ea, no doubt they will make more but they cost me less.
How can it be cash flow positive to sell slabs at that price? Maybe you purchased at $5 and sold at $6 but the guy who slabbed them has to be losing a few thousand dollars as the slabbing fees (even if highly discounted for bulk) must have been a few quid.
If the graders can fully evaluate coins in 14 seconds to give a precise grade surely the seller could do a rough evaluation on say 1000 coins in an arvo and reject these 500 to save a few grand.
Probably getting back 50% of the grading fee selling them at that but when you look at the bigger picture you would hope to be around 10% failure, 30% break even and 60% are your profit. So the hit you take in the losses and break evens is taken out with the profits you get from the good results.
Have to then weigh up whether the time to sort through the coins to weed out the break evens and losses actually makes you more money or whether the time and potentially lack of skill in that exercise could be better spent making more money elsewhere
again, people are missing the bigger picture here!
the more we grade, the more inviting a market we are and the more likely it is that pcgs will eventually open an Australian grading branch like they did in Hong Kong
and thankyou Cockatoo Coins for explaining typical business margins and how they are achieved
Quote from: 'Cockatoo Coins' pid='95277' dateline='1471831463'Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='95275' dateline='1471830307'Quote from: 'Cockatoo Coins' pid='95263' dateline='1471814469'All of these are from the bulk submissions, most of the sellers mentioned buy from the bulk guy or sell on commission for him. There is basically a monopoly of these on Facebook, I just sold 500 to a seller on there for $6ea, no doubt they will make more but they cost me less.
How can it be cash flow positive to sell slabs at that price? Maybe you purchased at $5 and sold at $6 but the guy who slabbed them has to be losing a few thousand dollars as the slabbing fees (even if highly discounted for bulk) must have been a few quid.
If the graders can fully evaluate coins in 14 seconds to give a precise grade surely the seller could do a rough evaluation on say 1000 coins in an arvo and reject these 500 to save a few grand.
Probably getting back 50% of the grading fee selling them at that but when you look at the bigger picture you would hope to be around 10% failure, 30% break even and 60% are your profit. So the hit you take in the losses and break evens is taken out with the profits you get from the good results.
Have to then weigh up whether the time to sort through the coins to weed out the break evens and losses actually makes you more money or whether the time and potentially lack of skill in that exercise could be better spent making more money elsewhere
If $5 is 50% of the grading fee then the fee is under $10 (or USD 7.50), wish we hoi polloi could get even double that rate.
So if he only gets back 50% of the grading fee that implies a loss of $2500. If it is 10% failure then 5000 coins were submitted. That takes only 2-3 days to assess to save at least half that (assuming he only identifies half the duds) so that is a saving of about $500/day. If his time is worth more than that then he should have an assistant.
Haha by that reasoning I need an assistant or two. At the end of the day though that $2500 loss can be made with 1 good coin and is probably chump change for the numbers hes dealing with, yes it could be improved but lazy money is always better than hard work money :)
I'll leave all the big business to the big boys as I can't play that game on my pension but it would be nice to see them open a branch here in oz and that would save me a few dollars for the few coins I get graded :)
so it looks like the good thing is that if you submit with cockatoo coins - it should be a very competition rate
which is great for the collectors to be able to access such a strongly discounted rate
I'm not sure if this is getting boring but here is an update on the ordinary coins at inflated prices being flogged off on facebook. Everything is the same price, $15 (buy 10 get 1 free), irrespective of grade.
One Cent
1967 MS64 x 1
1969 MS65 x 1
1970 MS65 x 6
1971 MS64 x 4
1972 MS65 x 6
1973 MS65 x 8
1974 MS66 x 2
1975 MS65 x 9
1975 MS64 x 3
1976 MS66 x 4
1977 MS65 x 9
1977 MS66 x 4
1978 MS65 x 9
1979 MS64 x 9
1979 MS65 x 6
1980 MS64 x 8
1980 MS65 x 9
1981 MS64 x 4
1981 MS65 x 4
1982 MS64 x 5
1982 MS66 x 3
1983 MS65 x 3
1983 MS66 x 2
1984 MS65 x 4
1985 MS66 x 1
1986 MS64 x 2
1986 MS65 x 2
1987 MS64 x 6
1987 MS65 x 4
1988 MS64 x 2
1988 MS65 x 2
1988 MS66 x 2
1990 MS65 x 6
1991 MS64 x 1
2006 MS65 x 2
Two Cent Coins
1966 MS63 x 10
1966 MS65 x 8
1967 MS65 x 8
1967 MS64 x 4
1967 MS66 x 4
1969 MS64 x 9
1969 MS65 x 4
1972 MS64 x 8
1972 MS65 x 2
1973 MS64 x 5
1974 MS64 x 11
1974 MS65 x 4
1977 MS64 x 3
1977 MS65 x 4
1978 MS65 x 4
1979 MS65 x 4
1980 MS64 x 4
1980 MS65 x 2
1981 MS65 x 5
1982 MS65 x 4
1983 MS66 x 3
1984 MS65 x 7
1985 MS65 x 2
1986 MS65 x 4
1987 MS65 x 5
1988 MS64 x 4
1988 MS65 x 4
1989 MS65 x 3
1991 MS64 x 2
2006 MS65 x 2
Five Cent
1967 MS66 x 2
1968 MS66 x 2
1969 MS66 x 2
1970 MS66 x 2
1971 MS66 x 1
1973 MS65 x 3
1977 MS65 x 5
1978 MS65 x 6
1979 MS65 x 6
1980 MS65 x 3
1980 MS66 x 3
1981 MS65 x 7
1982 MS65 x 2
1982 MS66 x 2
1983 MS65 x 4
1983 MS66 x 2
1984 MS65 x 5
1985 MS66 x 1
1986 MS66 x 2
1987 MS66 x 2
1988 MS65 x 4
1990 MS66 x 2
:scratch_one-s_head: so no 68 1 or 2 cents or 72 5 cent..what a bummer :(
But I suppose MS66 isn't too bad of a grade for a beginner set.
I am thinking that initially these uninspiring coins will probably sell like hot cakes to the newbie collector and this will encourage more of these massive bulk "Blanket" submissions to be sent.
At the end of the day the market will be saturated with not only the mediocre coins but the higher graded decimal coins as well.
Say goodbye to the value of your high grade Decimal registry coins people :angel:
well from what I have seen on those facebook pages
not all that many are newbies
Do you think the certification of 100 x MS66s will reduce the value of a top of the pops MS68 or MS69? It's not as if these coins are being freshly minted, they were all minted at the same time. If you own a top of the pops coin you would surely relish the opportunity for as many coins as possible to enter the population. If your coin remains top of the pops that will add to its value, if another coin knocks it off then it was never really number one anyway.
But wait there's more!
PCGS HALF PENNIES:
1961 (p) MS63RB $20.00
1961 (p) MS63BN $20.00
1964 (p) MS64BN $20.00
1964 (p) MS63RB $20.00
1962 (p) MS63RB $20.00
1964 (p) MS63BN $20.00
1964 (p) MS64BN $20.00
1963 (p) MS63RB $20.00
1963 (p) MS63BN $20.00
PCGS PENNIES:
1963 (p) MS62RB $20.00
1964 (p) MS63RB $20.00
1963 (p) MS63RB $20.00
PCGS THREEPENCE AND SIXPENCE:
1957 (m) MS62 3D $25.00
1964 (m) MS64 3D $25.00
1962 MS64 6D $25.00
EDIT: I love the way they don't discriminate based on grade. Also, all this facebook stuff I've been posting is for sale, I have no idea if anyone is actually buying any of it.
QuoteDo you think the certification of 100 x MS66s will reduce the value of a top of the pops MS68 or MS69? It's not as if these coins are being freshly minted, they were all minted at the same time. If you own a top of the pops coin you would surely relish the opportunity for as many coins as possible to enter the population. If your coin remains top of the pops that will add to its value, if another coin knocks it off then it was never really number one anyway.
I believe that there is a rather large reserve of coins from the 60's being held in rolls by collectors/Dealers that have yet to be graded, The earlier dated coins Not so much.
The chances of finding some more MS67 and above coins in these rolls are rather high and as the population of the lesser graded coins increases so will the numbers of the higher graded coins increase at the same time as each bulk submission is graded.
So to answer your question;
Yes for every X amount of lower grade coins that are added to the populations there will always be X amount of higher graded coins found and as the numbers increase at the top end of the scale the values will fall accordingly :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='95363' dateline='1471896994'QuoteDo you think the certification of 100 x MS66s will reduce the value of a top of the pops MS68 or MS69? It's not as if these coins are being freshly minted, they were all minted at the same time. If you own a top of the pops coin you would surely relish the opportunity for as many coins as possible to enter the population. If your coin remains top of the pops that will add to its value, if another coin knocks it off then it was never really number one anyway.
I believe that there is a rather large reserve of coins from the 60's being held in rolls by collectors/Dealers that have yet to be graded, The earlier dated coins Not so much.
The chances of finding some more MS67 and above coins in these rolls are rather high and as the population of the lesser graded coins increases so will the numbers of the higher graded coins increase at the same time as each bulk submission is graded.
So to answer your question;
Yes for every X amount of lower grade coins that are added to the populations there will always be X amount of higher graded coins found and as the numbers increase at the top end of the scale the values will fall accordingly :ok:
Yes Trout I recently bought a couple of rolls of 1961 halfpennies from a hoard of about 50 rolls and there were quite a few in
there worth grading.Some of them should grade MS65RD or better so no doubt more from these coins will surface eventually
as they were all sold a few months ago
for a few years I held the top of the pop for the red 1964 perth penny, and then scored the second one
then suddenly there just seemed to be a flood the market with very spotty looking reds that I would not have insulted pcgs with by sending
but the coins have the grade, spots, lack of eye appeal and all
and my precious - which in my opinion remains the beautiful one ever slabbed - is now in amongst a whole of gaggle of other 'equally' graded ones - so the value is ten time less than it was
anyone can buy a roll and send them to another 3rd party to sort and grade
it takes a skilled collector/person to find that perfect one and then send it over for that final test of grade and collector ability
and that is where the emotion and personal investment lie in this hobby
collectors on the whole aren't the mass sales business people
they buy and sell a few here and there to dabble in paying/supporting their hobby/obsession
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95387' dateline='1471916987'and my precious - which in my opinion remains the beautiful one ever slabbed - is now in amongst a whole of gaggle of other 'equally' graded ones - so the value is ten time less than it was
:i_agree: A good example of this is the 1950 Sixpence that Neal referred to in the Die Flash thread, and I went to the PCGS population report page for 1950 Sixpences and Neals coin is one of the three pictured. All due respect to Neals coin which is graded MS65 and very nice, but one of the other coins pictured was IMO simply outstanding when compared side by side, but was also graded MS65. Can anyone explain this inconsistency, which if you believe the hype about TPG's, simply should not be.
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='95390' dateline='1471920085'Can anyone explain this inconsistency, which if you believe the hype about TPG's, simply should not be.
Its par for the course, within normal tolerances. For every one they get wrong there are umpteen they get right. When you grade 30 billion coins you must expect a few odd results. Don't worry about it, she'll be apples.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='95392' dateline='1471921078'Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='95390' dateline='1471920085'Can anyone explain this inconsistency, which if you believe the hype about TPG's, simply should not be.
Its par for the course, within normal tolerances. For every one they get wrong there are umpteen they get right. When you grade 30 billion coins you must expect a few odd results. Don't worry about it, she'll be apples.
Or they got it perfectly correct having the coin right there in their hands while we are reduced to grading from (an admittedly good) set of images. By the way, one of those coins does look a bit better than the others, but it doesn't scream undergraded to me.
This sixpence was graded MS64 and looks very close to Neal's coin but they are so close you couldn't
possibly judge one as better just by the photos.In hand is always better
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/50~0.jpg)
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='95390' dateline='1471920085'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95387' dateline='1471916987'and my precious - which in my opinion remains the beautiful one ever slabbed - is now in amongst a whole of gaggle of other 'equally' graded ones - so the value is ten time less than it was
:i_agree: A good example of this is the 1950 Sixpence that Neal referred to in the Die Flash thread, and I went to the PCGS population report page for 1950 Sixpences and Neals coin is one of the three pictured. All due respect to Neals coin which is graded MS65 and very nice, but one of the other coins pictured was IMO simply outstanding when compared side by side, but was also graded MS65. Can anyone explain this inconsistency, which if you believe the hype about TPG's, simply should not be.
I have to agree, it is possible that the other MS65 was graded when giving out the + grade was very uncommon so that coin might be 65+. Or it could be that die flash gave my coin a boost in the eye appeal to the graders.
As for the values of the coins I like looking back at what single Top of the Pop coins sold for 3 years ago (when Fenton was putting together his collection) and what the same coins sold for this year when there are 3 or 4 coins now graded at that level. The 1951PL sixpence in MS66 sold for $8446 in mid 2013 and now 3 years later there are 4 examples with Drake offering one for $950. I got mine (MS65 in May 2014 for $138.57) so not being the top coin it was cheap (no Fenton V Timbertop bidding duels) and has held its value. But if a bag of rolls turn up then my coin might fall to under $50. Whatever happens I still like my coin.
and sadly sale values don't always equate true value
if a skilled buyer picks up a 1923 halfpenny in a $5 bag of old pennies at a garage sale
at that point of sale the halfpenny is worth say, 50c cents
the seller - dusts off the grott, sends it to PCGS and it overnight becomes, say a $2,000 sale price
so the coin went from being sold for 50c
to being sold for $2k
at each point along the way the coin has a value - the sellers value - the buyers value
then the more artistic factors like eye appeal, beauty - patina, tone come into play
only true collectors appreciate those elements and will bid/pay accordingly
if folks are buying numbers - then hell the coin doesn't matter one itoa
i've seen enough crap in PCGS holders to prove that point
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='95398' dateline='1471928137'and sadly sale values don't always equate true value
if a skilled buyer picks up a 1923 halfpenny in a $5 bag of old pennies at a garage sale
at that point of sale the halfpenny is worth say, 50c cents
the seller - dusts off the grott, sends it to PCGS and it overnight becomes, say a $2,000 sale price
so the coin went from being sold for 50c
to being sold for $2k
at each point along the way the coin has a value - the sellers value - the buyers value
then the more artistic factors like eye appeal, beauty - patina, tone come into play
only true collectors appreciate those elements and will bid/pay accordingly
if folks are buying numbers - then hell the coin doesn't matter one itoa
i've seen enough crap in PCGS holders to prove that point
From the perspective of buying and selling it can be a numbers game.Looking at it as a collector it's always nice to have a higher grade for your set or collection.Each to their own
Quotethen the more artistic factors like eye appeal, beauty - patina, tone come into play
only true collectors appreciate those elements and will bid/pay accordingly
if folks are buying numbers - then hell the coin doesn't matter one itoa
i've seen enough crap in PCGS holders to prove that point
:agreed:
If collecting purely by using the grades stated on the slab and not bothering to learn how to grade yourself or even appreciate the coin itself is a pretty sad thing.
These people are better off collecting spoons or beer cans I would think.
Fortunately we don"t all collect the same stuff or in the same way and perhaps some spoon collectors also
collect coins.It doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong
QuoteIt doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong
I am not implying that anyone is doing anything "Wrong".
What I am saying is that most of the people that buy slabbed coins unseen and not really caring what the actual coin looks like are treating them as a commodity or an investment and we all know how that usually pans out :dash1:
The best way that a coin collector would end up with a million dollars is to start them off with two million :angel:
Reminds me of the old riddle...
Q. How can you make a small fortune?
A. Start with a large one.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/Quote-2015-07-13-Double-your-money_2.jpg)
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='95413' dateline='1471944520'Fortunately we don"t all collect the same stuff or in the same way and perhaps some spoon collectors also
collect coins.It doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong
hey I resemble that comment
i have two highly collectable spoons now you know
hubby couldn't find a spoon the other night
ferreting around the kitchen grumbling (as blokes do)
so I handed him his new parrot spoon
the look was priceless
I would have thought that your dieting spoon would have been more fun to hand him :angel:
:angel:
QuoteCan anyone explain this inconsistency, which if you believe the hype about TPG's, simply should not be.
Within any given grade there will be subtle differences in a coins "Look" that only a collector can appreciate.
As grading is a subjective thing we have to take that into account when buying a coin and make our own assessment before purchasing any coin graded by a TPG or Raw :ok:
I have 5 MS65 Canberra florins and each of them are different, Some of them are nicer than the others But they are all technically MS65's
So when buying a slabbed coin it is important to buy the one you like and not just rely on the grade written on the slab .
Quote from: 'markn' pid='95393' dateline='1471921848'we are reduced to grading from (an admittedly good) set of images.
I agree, they are excellent images and a great reference, and should be compulsory for all submissions.
Yes grading from pic's is very hard and never the same as having the coin in hand.
actually I should say "trying" to grade from pic's.