I just found this one on ebay. Question is: Fake or Genuine?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1930-Penny-VERY-RARE-Genuine-1930-Australian-Penny/272258506473?_trksid=p2047675.c100013.m1986&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107112811%26meid%3D70f1e5bccc7849fcb1006dc591901f98%26pid%3D100013%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D201593820563
I saw that coin last night,first instinct was the top of the '0' was too high and i've never seen a natural pitted/damage Obverse blank on a 1930 before.The other worry is he would have genuine documentation if genuine and purchased from a dealer,surely he would provide that in the sale.
I'll do a side by side comparison when i get back home later in the week but at the moment i'll leave it to the experts.
It reminds me of the Coin Dealer that we had for a Period a week way back at High School,he impressed upon us the number of fakes out there even in those days,late 1960's.He assumed all 1923's presented to him to buy were fakes and if he did buy one paid by cheque which gave him 5(i think in that era to clear) days to cancel sale.
I am sure thats a fake... 1930 looks odd .
There is a marker on all genuine 1930 pennies.
In this case the pics are not good enough to see it.
Plus it doesnt look right.
Plus "No Returns Accepted"
Doesnt sound too good.
But you could take a chance with a low bid.
A good rule of thumb is "if a 1930 penny is listed on eBay it is a fake". 1923 halfpennies may also be subject to that rule too.
I am suspicious of the '0' in the date -altered from another year?
For echidna:- What marker are you talking about?
Of course it's a fake and report this grub to eBay
The coin appears to exhibit an Indian obverse and a London reverse, which certainly narrows the odds in the positive, and the date numerals all look to be in the proper alignment and font. Has there been alterations to the date? Doesn't look like it to me, but what would I know :dodgy: Check out what EMU666 thinks http://www.thesandpit.net/index.php?option=1930_penny
The 1930 is an overdate of a 192x. There's a 2 that sticks out of the top tip of the 3 on all genuine 1930 pennies (even the proofs). The photos in this case aren't clear enough to make it out.
It says:
Originally purchased from ANDA Dealer Edlins.
Purchases as Reverse side VF, Obverse poor.
*Inspections welcomed*
(Located in Melbourne)
I never knew the 1930 was an 192x over-date. The image of the date provided seems pretty clear:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/1930_Penny-EB9.JPG)
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='89763' dateline='1464798777'*Inspections welcomed*
(Located in Melbourne)
Well, we happen to know someone in Melbourne who has a couple of real ones for comparison, don't we? All we need to add is a USB scope, and Bob's your Auntie! Oh, look what I have here by my elbow... ;)
I did this comparison of the Ebay coin and the one on the Perth Mint site, and I have to say the date looks OK to me, but hey, I'm certainly no expert, so please don't quote me.
I lined up the scrolls, then the top of the Dots, then the top of the 0 with the top of the 9. I don't see any evidence of a two under the three on the Pert Mint coin.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10007/Ebay_v_Perth_Mint_Sample.jpg)
There are a couple of markers,green circles,on the Perth coin i haven't noticed before on a 1930 but its a coin i've never worried about over the years.
Not good enough image on the Perth coin to enlarge date but there seems to be some sort of a marker under the top loop of the 3.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/1930_penny_resize_date.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/1930_2_circles.png)
Surely the easiest way to confirm if this penny is genuine is to drop a line to Edlins. I'm sure most dealers would remember if they sold a 1930 with a pitted obverse.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='89763' dateline='1464798777'I never knew the 1930 was an 192x over-date. The image of the date provided seems pretty clear:
Not many people seem to know this, the only published reference I can find was by Sharples in the NAA Journal back in the early 90s which had some pretty clear zoomed up photos of the Melbourne proof.
He did note that it wasn't always visible on business strikes though I'm yet to encounter an example which doesn't at least have the top-end of the two coming out of the top arch of the 3 (except of course if too worn/damaged).
Downie's $100,000 Coin on left(first) and Ebay on right.The left bit of the lower scroll is missing on the Ebay Coin,i haven't seen that on a 1930 before.
Below is a close up of the date on the Downie coin,looks like a prong coming out of the first loop of the 3.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/1930_Panny__Downies_1st.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/Downies_date.jpg)
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='89784' dateline='1464830496'Surely the easiest way to confirm if this penny is genuine is to drop a line to Edlins. I'm sure most dealers would remember if they sold a 1930 with a pitted obverse.
Yeah,perhaps Fulvio can ask to see paper work if he has the time to follow it up further.
This is a close up of the date on a Proof Coin,can't see prong on 3 on this thou.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/Sterling_Currency_1930_proof_date_resize.jpg)
I used to own that Downies coin and it shows a very prominent prong (it's a very early business strike), a nice 8 pearler and in my opinion the finest known (the two Ex-Nugent coins were problem AUs).
The angle of that photo of that proof has the date closer to the coin than the top so it won't be clear (as the prong sticks out of the bottom). It's clearer in the MV proof:
(http://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/content/media/41/215241-large.jpg)
Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='89787' dateline='1464836727'Not many people seem to know this, the only published reference I can find was by Sharples in the NAA Journal back in the early 90s which had some pretty clear zoomed up photos of the Melbourne proof.
Journal of the Numismatic Association of Australia Vol. 21 Article 1 (http://www.numismatics.org.au/pdfjournal/Vol21/Vol%2021%20Article%201.pdf)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/1930_Penny_AGSA1.jpg)
Figure 9. Overdate (AGSA1).
AGSA = Art Gallery of S.A.
That tiny marker is useful, but how can they determine that it is a remnant of a 2 and not some random tiny defect? Too many guesses/suppositions seem to be made about possible overdates.
That marker(from article link) on the denticles over the 'ÓF' is interesting,something else to look for.
edlins do issue certificates of authentication as well
even if it's a oddly fully corroded obverse on one side but with an almost perfect set of 1930 numerals in the date on the reverse
it's not quite right in my books
I agree,something not quiet correct with the coin,if it is a fake then its a good one.
Edlins is the key but why didn't the seller provide documentation and Provenance.
A couple of things worry me,to me the zero is slightly out of place but looks the correct shape.
Also i can't remember a 1930 with the left tip of the lower scroll missing,thats a 1920's trait.
I intend to buy a 1930 before i die so extremely interested in what the experts have to say.
Edit...no way Ebay RG,i'll get one from a Dealer or Auction House where its authenticity is guaranteed.
Its a bit easier with this one....sigh
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1930-Penny-Grade-F-Fine-lot-09069-Ex-Shop-Liquidation-1930-Australian-Penny-/222139742202?hash=item33b88f77fa:g:pxYAAOSwmtJXURBZ
we have abought a couple of the rarer coins from edlins and got certificates from them (did make the request though)
the cert includes a photo of the coin as well
Basil good luck with your search
although I wouldn't recommend ebay as a reliable source for such a rarity
here's another one!!
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1930-Penny-Grade-F-Fine-lot-09069-Ex-Shop-Liquidation-1930-Australian-Penny-/222139742202?hash=item33b88f77fa:g:pxYAAOSwmtJXURBZ
I own two each of the 1930 penny, 1923 halfpenny and the 1921/22 overprint threepence and only the pennies came with a letter of certification as both these coins were bought from Belinda Downie of Coinworks.
I have again had one of each certified by the RAM before they stopped certifying coins several years ago.
The remaining two coins were purchased from reputable dealers and upon receipt were taken to two separate coin dealers and they certified them verbally as being genuine.
I think anyone that is about to purchase any high value coin must ask for a guarantee in writing that the coin is genuine otherwise leave it alone.
As regards to this particular one that this discussion is all about, I am not sure that I would purchase it.
Seller is willing to let people view this from Frankston apparently from my contact
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='89925' dateline='1465032646'I own two each of the 1930 penny, 1923 halfpenny and the 1921/22 overprint threepence and only the pennies came with a letter of certification as both these coins were bought from Belinda Downie of Coinworks.
I have again had one of each certified by the RAM before they stopped certifying coins several years ago.
The remaining two coins were purchased from reputable dealers and upon receipt were taken to two separate coin dealers and they certified them verbally as being genuine.
I think anyone that is about to purchase any high value coin must ask for a guarantee in writing that the coin is genuine otherwise leave it alone.
As regards to this particular one that this discussion is all about, I am not sure that I would purchase it.
Steer clear of this one too suss for my liking
eBay is not the place to sell 1930 pennies :idea::dodgy:
Quote from: 'runway' pid='89941' dateline='1465043736'Steer clear of this one too suss for my liking
eBay is not the place to sell 1930 pennies :idea::dodgy:
I agree,its just an interest to me if its a fake or not,i've got a genuine 1930 on my Bucket list but there is no hurry(i hope).
I posted about this on CCF a couple of years ago,lowlife was selling 1923's via Herald/Age/Courier mail back in the 1960's when the market was hot after all the Decimal hoopla.They had certificate's of Authenticity from a major dealer,the original certificate was genuine but for a different coin,he just copied it for his fakes.Often he would advertise a coin,say Unc 1915 shilling or Unc 1925 Penny,at a extremely low price,when the mark rang he would say it was sold but then go into a spiel about the 'genuine' 1923 he had 'çheap'.All the above Info.was from a Dealer(period a week at School one) who was asked by Police to verify some of the coins so i assume its correct.
Anyway point being that was 50 years ago,i assume the smarties are a lot more sophisticated these days.
It appears that this same coin was if fact sold through Edlins.
However EVEN if it was genuine I would not value it at more than $3000.
It just too horrible to look at.
Sold for $7,610 (99 bids) inc. postage.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90303' dateline='1465503696'Sold for $7,610 (99 bids) inc. postage.
Yuk!
For that kind of money you could buy an uncirculated 1932 florin or a choice uncirculated 1933 florin. They would give you bragging rights but that pitted disaster would just get you pity.
Maybe the successful bidder has plenty of money just to fill a hole.
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='90022' dateline='1465115969'It appears that this same coin was if fact sold through Edlins.
However EVEN if it was genuine I would not value it at more than $3000.
It just too horrible to look at.
is there a catalogue photo?
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='90341' dateline='1465546472'Quote from: 'echidna' pid='90022' dateline='1465115969'It appears that this same coin was if fact sold through Edlins.
However EVEN if it was genuine I would not value it at more than $3000.
It just too horrible to look at.
is there a catalogue photo?
http://www.edlins.com.au/200/i/112809.jpg
How about this one:
http://coins.ha.com/itm/australia/world-coins/australia-george-v-penny-1930-/a/3016-23339.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
edlins INVOICE noted
ebay 1930
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1930_rev_ebay.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1930_ebay.jpg)
dings match
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1930__2_ebay.jpg)
edlins coin
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1930_edlins.jpg)
heritage obv (has 8 pearls this one)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1930_heritage_coin_obv.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/1930_heritage_coins_-_Copy.jpg)
Up to $7,950 and 18 hours to go and just noticed apcgs said it was fake on FB but he has been known to grade fakes :blink:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1930-Penny-Grade-F-Fine-lot-09069-Ex-Shop-Liquidation-1930-Australian-Penny-/222139742202#description
If a coin of this rarity isn't graded and authenticated then it is a "No Brainer" to stay away :ok:
At those prices I don't have a choice :blink:
speaking of questionable coins
what do other think of this coin please
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/P3291259_-_Copy.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/P3291261_-_Copy.JPG)
Severe die polishing marks on reverse?
I was wondering if there is a limit to how many fake 1930 pennies Ebay can sell but then again maybe not. As for the 1933 penny it appears to be in a holder of some kind, what does that say?
Yeah, I was wondering about the die polishing, and if it is from wire brushing it's a bit different in that they appear to have been applied in an orderly manner across the coin. The Kings regalia gives the impression of not being fully struck up, but the coin does display plenty of colour though.
Now this is the part that really irks me, why would anyone bother to slab a coin that is obviously suffering from the green death? I very much doubt that verdigris of that severity developed after the coin was entombed. Personally, I would forget any nonsense that says we shouldn't treat this type of contamination, and would much rather have any coin treated that even hints of being infected before being slabbed if were a slabber, which I'm not :angel:
There's no way I would buy any coin suffering in this way without a huge discount. Then it would go straight to the shed where the hammer and cold chisel reside and be set free :yahoo:, and then off to hospital it would go. :)
I accidently cut off a part of the label that also says DETAILS and apparently that was because of the Verdigris
I have been intending to take it to my coin dealer as there is just something about this coin that makes me suspicious that it is not genuine (my coin dealer verifies 1930 pennies professionally so he is reliable)
maybe it's a proof???? that would be great!!
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/P3291264_-_Copy.JPG)(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/P3291265_-_Copy.JPG)
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='90533' dateline='1465776578'if were a slabber, which I'm not :angel:
But you could be auto :angel:
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='90544' dateline='1465779196'I accidently cut off a part of the label that also says DETAILS and apparently that was because of the Verdigris
I have been intending to take it to my coin dealer as there is just something about this coin that makes me suspicious that it is not genuine (my coin dealer verifies 1930 pennies professionally so he is reliable)
maybe it's a proof???? that would be great!!
Well he has been known to slab fakes before :dodgy:
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='90533' dateline='1465776578'Now this is the part that really irks me, why would anyone bother to slab a coin that is obviously suffering from the green death? I very much doubt that verdigris of that severity developed after the coin was entombed. Personally, I would forget any nonsense that says we shouldn't treat this type of contamination, and would much rather have any coin treated that even hints of being infected before being slabbed if were a slabber, which I'm not :angel:
FWIW i agree,Verdigris has to be treated and doesn't need much Oxygen to grow,i have coins that are sealed and its still growing.
Also coins that have paint/varnish/enamel and the like also need treatment IMO,everything else is obviously best left alone.
personally i think that if this coin is genuine it has to be well around AU58 or higher
pcgs grade coins with spots & they are not 'detailed' - I have seen plenty for sale
I think there is something not quite right about this one
anyways I bought it because the coin looked good in the sellers photos
but it does remind me a lot of my chinese copy 1930 penny - the colour etc
I dont see any problem with this coin.
The grade looks ridiculous however.
Looks MS 63 or 64 to me.
It looks OK to me RG.
I can't see any reason to fake a 1933 penny.
ta
that was the sort of opinion that I was looking for
might have to post it over to mr trout as he knows how to saw the things out of slabs
Quote from: 'trout' pid='90607' dateline='1465816222'It looks OK to me RG.
I can't see any reason to fake a 1933 penny.
+
I used to think that until a few years ago,since the Chinese became involved they're are getting more sophisticated with their copies every year.
Why would anyone bother with 1933 Penny has got be stumped unless its some sort of trial runs before they hit the key dates.
Walter said the following Coin is a modern day replica...sigh.
https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=2778
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='90608' dateline='1465816264'ta
that was the sort of opinion that I was looking for
might have to post it over to mr trout as he knows how the saw the things out of slabs
A well placed smack with a hammer will free that coin without damaging it in a heartbeat :)
I think both of these are fakes,IIRC there was a batch of 1925's a few years back where the Kings mo was misformed,this may be one.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/232017183752?_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I think this is the 1932 Fake with the rabbit ears on the Roo.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/232017191479?_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I may be getting paranoid thou.
QuoteI may be getting paranoid thou.
There is Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy Paranoia with all the fakes on the market increasing lately :ok:
Wouldn't touch either
I bought this one today. Comments please:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/Fake_1930_Obv.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/Fake_1930_1200_Rev.jpg)
Further, I had a 1937 Penny in my hands as well but he wouldn't sell it to me.
:dodgy:
Geez Goldie, it looks amazing (8 beads!!!!), I'm not sure. I'll leave it to the experts but the figures of the date don't seem to be right to me, but that could be just the flattening of the legend. (I'm no expert by any sense of the word so I'd rather you get the thoughts of Walter, Mark, Eric, FP, Fr45h3R and some others before anything else).
EDIT: (8 beads, looking again perhaps not ..... after looking at the front ones. I would have thought the ones on the left of the diamond would have worn first). But don't listen to me, I'm no pro on 1930 pennies.
EDIT:EDIT ..... I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that it is genuine.
That is a beautiful 1930 penny there. Will you be getting it slabbed?:winkextra:
Shanghai mint?
If you ask me, it is not a genuine 1930. Hope you knew what you were buying GS.
They don't get much more fake than that one Goldie :angel:
100% spot on folks. I bought it as a fake as a gap filler in my used collection.
One chap at the model train show where I bought it, thought it was a real one as until the seller produced three of them in his pocket.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='93801' dateline='1470540339'I bought this one today. Comments please:
Further, I had a 1937 Penny in my hands as well but he wouldn't sell it to me.
Here's a 37 penny for ya Goldie. Of course it's a COPY :angel:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1937_Penny_rev__Copy.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1937_Penny_obv__Copy.JPG)
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='93808' dateline='1470543447'I would have thought the ones on the left of the diamond would have worn first
Like these uni :angel: Yep, another COPY :dodgy:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1930_Penny_rev__Copy.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1930_Penny_obv__Copy.JPG)
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='93816' dateline='1470549216'I bought it as a fake as a gap filler in my used collection.
Me too, but I'd love to drop them both on the floor at the next coin show, then stand back and watch the fun. :blush: :dodgy:
Yes, the 1937 with the curved "&" is a real beauty.
The owner wouldn't sell it though.
Could someone who has far more experience than me please tell me whether this one is fake or genuine
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1925-Australia-One-penny-/351881177813?hash=item51edc0aad5:g:SxQAAOSwCGVYBUwG