Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='89110' dateline='1464069674'I suspect that you have the biggest collection (or did) than all of the collectors here!
but I still disagree that they are rightfully called granny bait - I think it devalues and insults the older women in our society (me being one of them)
and it devalues the coin for what ever it is
it is typical in this society that if people want to offend or insult - they use a female terms
just throwing out a woman's point of view here
I don't think the term is "Sexist" Gandadbait Just doesn't seem to roll off the tonge as easy as "Grannybait" :)
Would you prefer "Poppybait" :angel:
Lets face it these types of coins are designed to lure the new collectors in and part them from their money.
Most collectors do buy these at times but in reality they are pretty much just overpriced bullion items and most of us know them for what they are.
The term "Grannybait" has been a part of the numismatic vocabulary for quite a while now and I personally find Nothing derisive or insulting in the term it simply describes a certain coin type.
Describing it as being insulting to the older female gender and taking offence is taking this bloody political correctness too far, Get "Over it" people the term is here to stay :ok:
Well, I use the term Granny Bait quite a bit, and seeing as I'm female, 72 yrs old, and a Granny, I couldn't give a hoot who else uses it.
I know that no-one is aiming the term at me personally, and I certainly don't take offense at it being used and I don't think it's any way derogatory toward females.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='89110' dateline='1464069674'I think it devalues and insults the older women in our society
Where did this suddenly come from? Has the thread been edited???
Anyway, I also don't find it in any way offensive, insulting or anything of the sort.
I've known a few 'grannies' that this junk is squarely aimed at. Women (always women, I've not met a granddad yet who did this) who would buy one each for the grandkids simply because they could, and wanted to leave them something as both a memento/keepsake and hopefully value in years to come.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, or said 'grannies'. The issue, and I think the way most if not all of us look at this, is the manipulative, cynical opportunism which the mints use to prey on them. Hence the term.
There are plenty of older persons of the female persuasion (how's that for political correctness?) in this hobby. Including one I know who is 100 (and still sharp as a tack)! I'm sure we all have the utmost respect for them, and suggesting otherwise is way off base I think.
Shouldn't be surprised given the mechanics of how society is constantly manipulated by minorities, but still unbelievable how far the long arm of social engineering can reach :diablo: As a compromise I'm thinking, Wankers Bankers, Old Codgers Dodgers, Old Farts Parts, Oldies Goldies.
QuoteWhere did this suddenly come from? Has the thread been edited???
No, this is a new thread. The original comment was made in Kel's "have to sell' thread.
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='89150' dateline='1464126183'The original comment was made in Kel's "have to sell' thread.
Aha! I see... given that I'm not reading the majority of threads lately, no wonder I missed it. ;)
"The term "Grannybait" has been a part of the numismatic vocabulary for quite a while now and I personally find Nothing derisive or insulting in the term it simply describes a certain coin type.
Describing it as being insulting to the older female gender and taking offence is taking this bloody political correctness too far, Get "Over it" people the term is here to stay Ok"
Sure - the term is here to stay as long as people use it
nothing to do with political correctness - just my personal opinion and I explained why I felt that way - it is an insulting term to me
there's nothing to get over except to accept that some people are very rude when it comes to others expressing their opinions and if they don't tow the line then they have something 'to get over'
it is also called that bullying or bull dozing when a person doesn't fall into the what one might consider to be the 'general consensus'
I never heard of these coins being called granny bait until I came to this forum & I have been hanging around the real world of coin collecting well for a long time before I joined internet forums
I would prefer that those mint proof issues simply aren't called granny bait or poppy bait - they are just another style of coin produced
just as how Kel reacted - some collectors who like these coins are insulted by being told their coins are nothing but granny bait crap and they are being ripped off - each has their own likes and why take away collectors enjoyment because of some collecting snobbery?
that is my point and you can talk me down but please show some respect for people having some personal investment in their collecting regardless of what it is. a simple hobby is all some ask for without having to apologise or made to feel inferior about that
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='89215' dateline='1464171909'take away collectors enjoyment because of some collecting snobbery?
I think you're missing the point. Almost every collector I've ever met or spoken with has been helpful to the extreme. And part of that is concern for other collectors. That's why we keep an eye out for obvious scams involving chinese fakes, doctored coins or whatever. And part of that is also rubbish being passed off as valuable collectibles.
I said "Almost", and there are sadly some notable exceptions. I've recently bailed out of two Facebook groups because the people running them turned out to be the other sort of collector, out to profit off others by keeping them ignorant and actively stifling dissenting views. In my particular case, it was related to the garbage produced by private mints such as Franklin and Macquarie.
There is nothing wrong with buying trinkets which have no long-term value. As long as you do it with open eyes, and accept that you're throwing money away. However there are people who have 'invested' tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, only to find out decades later when they needed the money that they'd been conned.
Those are the people who need to be protected from 'Granny-bait' scams. Most of us have already been there, done that, and have cupboards full of rubbish to show for it. :(
I thought that most of us have cupboards full of rubbish - that is what collecting is all about
I doubt that I am missing the point - if you come along and criticise my collection because you know so much, does that make you a caring collector friend? No you just rub it in that in your opinion, I have been taken for a fool. And that opinion is a matter of opinion. I have paid top dollar for some of my pennies - only of the value to my collecting - others would say that I have been a fool.
very few of us have a sizeable investment portfolio from coin collecting
and that is a part of what collecting is about and learning, sometimes in the hard way & getting fingers burned
but what you think is valuable or worth collecting may be different to another collector.
it's a bit like love and to the eye of the beholder
I appreciate giving people advice but there are ways to do it
I got abused by a new member here for clearly saying that the filthy old penny picture that he posted was just that - and I was accused of being mean. I just reacted to what I saw was true rubbish.
I still can't get my head around calling proof coins granny bait. if ever any member here went through the proof rooms at the mint and saw the work and specialised treatment that these coins go through to be produced then they wouldn't demean the coin with such language.
if people can't respect the coin then don't collect it. but respect that other people admire and enjoy these coins - that is all that my point is
and yes as a feminist I don't like to use female terms to demean something and no, I will not apologise for that.
anyways, sometimes one knows when one doesn't belong
Quoteit is also called that bullying or bull dozing when a person doesn't fall into the what one might consider to be the 'general consensus'
I just read your post RG and the only one guilty of this is you by trying to "Gag" people from using the term "Grannybait" and making a song and dance about it, It IS a valid term.
I cannot believe that you are that "Thin Skinned" Mate.
Many of us have boxes and boxes of this overpriced stuff that is only worth melt value and always was and when we finally realised that we have been taken for a "mug" we tend NOT to refer to it in glowing terms :ok:
I have been there done that and on occasion I will still buy the odd coin or two in in this "Genre" But as Fulvio said I do this with my eyes open and I know that I am paying far too much for something just because I think it is appealing .
Many of these types of offerings are advertised as an "Investment" in numismatics But nothing could be further from the truth and when people decide to sell a bit further down the track for whatever reason they tend to feel hurt and angry because their prized "Investments" are only worth a fraction of what they paid for them.
I have been "Stung" with these baubles myself and I don't consider it to be "Bullying" letting other collectors know the truth about these Mint offerings, I am only trying to help that's all.
sorry about being thin skinned
I thought this forum was more open to people being able to express their opinions
but is seems that if people don't tow the mainstream line then they have a problem and will get hounded
what's wrong with stepping in to defend some top bloke like Kel?
the man was offended and upset
as long as he goes - oh it's ok guys put shit on my coins and tell me I am a fool - sorry guys
then it's all OK
*** bullshit Jim and you know it
Yeah I shouldn't swear sorry bout that
QuoteI still can't get my head around calling proof coins granny bait.
I certainly don't consider Proof coins to be "Grannybait" at all for me they are the best of the best the Mint can produce, Nearly as good as the Wedding set coins :angel:
What I refer to as Grannybait is the plethora of NCLT coins with largely irrelevant themes that is churned out by the various Mints Worldwide, The ABC coins is a prime example as is the latest Play School offerings.
The Proof coins of our circulating coinage are not for everyone but I personally don't think of them as Grannybait at all .
Well i am pretty sure that kel had some of the proof subscription coins up on his for sale. Other stuff too but a couple of what I thought were proofs. Hence my bitch
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='89245' dateline='1464180564'Well i am pretty sure that kel had some of the proof subscription coins up on his for sale. Other stuff too but a couple of what I thought were proofs. Hence my bitch
All is Good RG and there is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking up for your Mates.
Crikey you can be a Gnarly bugger when you get wound up :)
, We still Mates ?? :friends:
I know that you have a heart of gold mate and then other times you are a right pain in the arse . But I can't help but like ya a lot. And I reckon we are even on the gnarly stakes! Ha ha
p's I did edit my swear word sorry if I offended and fortuneatley the mods were in bed having a nanna nap or I'd be in the sin bin for a while. But was feeling a bit hot under the collar and yeah I reckon Kel is top bloke and a true battler and people like him need our support 100%
HeHe
I have the skin of a Rhino Mate and sometimes YES I can get a wee bit rambunctious at times :angel: :heart::)
Only thing I will say is that I don't like it when my friends fight :cray: 'cause to me your ALL like family :friends: :give_heart:
Each to their own and let bygones be bygones :angel:
Now lets dance :yahoo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9EbR0ckb40
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='89253' dateline='1464184145'Only thing I will say is that I don't like it when my friends fight :cray: 'cause to me your ALL like family :friends: :give_heart:
Each to their own and let bygones be bygones :angel:
Now lets dance :yahoo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9EbR0ckb40
We weren't "Fighting" AJ , we were just having a discussion over an item of numismatic terminology :):ok:
Nothing wrong with a bit of Passion developing during a discussion regarding numismatics , it just shows that people do take their hobby seriously :yahoo::angel:
NO harm NO foul and just between you and me Mate I recon RG loves a good stoush every now and then :diablo::laugh2:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='89241' dateline='1464178604'Many of us have boxes and boxes of this overpriced stuff that is only worth melt value and always was and when we finally realised that we have been taken for a "mug" we tend NOT to refer to it in glowing terms
I feel there may be a misunderstanding at the core of this.
I don't think anyone is looking down on people for what they have in their collections. I know I'm not, because I too, like most of us, have things I really shouldn't have bought. Some of which I KNEW were bad ideas, but liked them anyway.
Nor is anyone calling people out for having coins which are dirty, overpriced or otherwise less than perfect. Heck, we even have a Roadkill thread, remember?
And proof coins are indeed shining examples of the talents of the mint's craftsmen. No argument there either.
However...
There are things which are made
specifically to con people out of their hard-earned money. Overpriced rubbish which will never be worth more than scrap. Everything produced by certain mints, Franklin and Macquarie being two perfect examples. Fake coins produced by Chinese mints. A good part of otherwise legitimate mints' production, such as the Perth mint's offerings for insignificant states such as Tuvalu and the like. And some NCLT issues, such as the ABC and Play School coins, produced by the RAM, RM and other national mints.
These things are granny-bait, and they get called out pretty quickly as such. If people want to buy them anyway, well, they've been warned, and that's their problem. But if a warning dissuades even one innocent victim and saves them grief down the track, that's gotta be a good thing, surely?
As for gender-specific terms, give me a break. Political correctness gone mad. Getting upset because of perceived sleights which are not there does nobody any good.
I just love this blog not only for gathering info learning and just able to show off your collection but to have a discussion on the finer points of anything and still be happy at the end of the day :D:D:rolleyes::P
Someone mention Tuvalu ! As probably the only one of us who has actually been there, I can say it is less than insignificant :angel: but Charles and Di, Kate and
hubby visited. " so stick that in your funk and wagnells " :shock::shock::laugh2::laugh2::P:P
:scratch_one-s_head: Oh so are your like our royalty duggee, all hail King duggee :thank_you: :mocking:
I must admit I bought a Tuvalu coin from the Perth Mint because of the design -no thought of future resale value and country name was irrelevant.
So that might have been a grandad bait issue. I have no regrets and no thought I was suckered in.
(http://www.images-apmex.com/images/Catalog%20Images/Products/71060_Obv.jpg?v=20130602094622&width=450&height=450)
i also was in other forums before I joined this one ,and have been a member of this one for a long time now , and I sign on every day just to keep up with the new messages and I read every one of them .
number 1 , I have never known of the word granny bait until I came on here and found out what it meant , and really I was not offended until I was told my coins were only granny bait .
number 2 , I have been buying coins from the 2 mints only , Perth mint and ram only , for a long time now , and not knowing they were granny bait , I bought all the coins that I have because I liked what i saw so I bought them , not caring about the price later on . and I would still be buying what I like , except for joining this forum and finding out the real truth about these coins , so I have stopped buying any more of them since I got my last lot of the bird series and the ocean series . even up to the time I swapped one of my mules to serial for another set of the bird series , I now have 2 sets of them which I like , regardless of what they are worth now or later on .
ok , I admit that I made a mistake when I bought a lot of my coins and I will lose quite a bit of money in the end , but that was my mistake , at my cost , I can were that , but I got hurt when I was told that my coins were just granny bait , I bought them for their beauty and not for profit . end of story .
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='89119' dateline='1464086908'72 yrs old
I don't believe it - you are obviously way younger than that!
Quote from: 'keldaw' pid='89274' dateline='1464217392'number 1 , I have never known of the word granny bait until I came on here and found out what it meant , and really I was not offended until I was told my coins were only granny bait .
I had never heard of the term until about 4 minutes ago when I first started reading this thread. I admit, I don't read every post here...
Kel, I think we are all on the same boat at one time or another. The market for collectors did change to attract newer customers, I always buy what I want to and like you because of the shear amount the RAM has produced on a yearly basis, had to redefine the way I collected. I have had to cut my purchasing way down. There are still some great designs coming out. However if I like it I still buy it. My choice, my collection. :)
I am sorry that you got Stung with the Grannybait Kel but would you rather we lied to you about these sort of coins?
They are what they are and you are NOT alone being taken in with them Mate :ok:
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='89215' dateline='1464171909'I never heard of these coins being called granny bait until I came to this forum & I have been hanging around the real world of coin collecting well for a long time before I joined internet forums
QuoteI have to agree there,one of the regulars here or on CCF must have coined the phrase or heard it mentioned in Coin Club chatterings and others have ran with it.
The same with 'Noodling',the first time i saw it mentioned or heard about it was on the Metal Detectors/Fossicking/Prospecting type Forums/Magazines in the late 1990's but somehow its transposed itself over to Coin Collecting Forums.
Quote from: 'WavyTwenty' pid='89275' dateline='1464219779'Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='89119' dateline='1464086908'72 yrs old
I don't believe it - you are obviously way younger than that!
Believe it, I have personally met Kel and he's stayed here and I have gone to his place and he and Dawn are two of the loveliest people you'd ever want to meet and I'm very proud to call them my friends :friends:
Quote from: 'keldaw' pid='89274' dateline='1464217392'I got hurt when I was told that my coins were just granny bait
I'd be hurt too. So would anyone I think. Putting someone down for what they have is
not cool, and you have to wonder about their motivations I reckon.
Look, the whole granny-bait issue is about the mints, not their clients.
Many years ago, Australia Post went down the same path. Back in the early days, a stamp was a stamp was a stamp. They came in different values of course, and they were issued in different quantities, which obviously affected rarity and prices.
And then the whole commemorative thing really took off. Stamps started being issued in se-tenant strips, and OzPost woke up that collectors were buying blocks and gutter pairs and so on, and they really got on board in a big way. Mini sheets. Maxi cards, all manner of packs, year sets...
All of a sudden it was no longer enough to spend 4¢, or 25¢ or even 50, 60, 70... you had to spend twenty bucks to get every combination for each release. And that was without buying full sheets! And thus, they killed the golden goose. A lot of collectors just walked away. Sure, there were plenty of kids and grannies and noobs flowing in, but did they really make up for the disgruntled old-timers?
The RAM went the same way a few years ago. We all know that. And we know why. The government is hell-bent on flogging off everything that isn't nailed down. Don't be surprised if we eventually have for-profit police and fire brigades. We already have partially private ambulance services, and the fully private american model probably isn't far away. And its no secret the mint is being prepared for sale. Which means sexing up the balance sheet, and collectors are viewed as cash cows to be milked mercilessly.
However, where we differ from philately is that our coins are fairly easily categorised, and the rubbish is fairly easy to leave on the shelf. You can choose to only collect circulating coins, or mint sets or even proofs of circulating coins, even if the premiums are obscene. You can pick and choose NCLT that grabs your fancy, but you don't have to feel obligated to buy every piece of crap just because they released it.
And most importantly, we can all help newcomers avoid the expensive pitfalls by making them aware that they're being hunted, and ways to avoid ending up fleeced, skinned and stuffed. :angel:
Because, at the end of the day, ex-collectors don't do anybody any good, do they?
We already have police cars advertising and I think it's wrong, if they're getting taxpayer's money they shouldn't be allowed as I don't think it's good and will eventually lead to more corruption or let businesses like Santos pay and don't take money from the taxpayers.
Kel if you are talking about having swapped a pied Ford silver bird series set for a mule $1 then that maybe isn't do bad. Again knowing market values can help with choices. And those sets are proof coins. And each being 2 ounce coins of silver. Far cry from granny bait in my opinion.
Yeah I checked with my hubby last night and he has never heard of the term either.i think it might be a local expression here.
Quote from: 'WavyTwenty' pid='89275' dateline='1464219779'Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='89119' dateline='1464086908'72 yrs old
I don't believe it - you are obviously way younger than that!
Quote from: 'keldaw' pid='89274' dateline='1464217392'number 1 , I have never known of the word granny bait until I came on here and found out what it meant , and really I was not offended until I was told my coins were only granny bait .
I had never heard of the term until about 4 minutes ago when I first started reading this thread. I admit, I don't read every post here...
With you on both!
I reckon the term is at least as ageist as it is sexist but I suspect the problem is with the juxtaposition of the words granny and bait. I wonder if grannyflat, grannyknot and grannybag are equally problematic? They are all kind of derogatory to flats, knots and bags.
I did a bit of a search and the earliest thread I can find on this forum is dated 28/04/13:
https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=948
Another thread I found in my search:
https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=1393
Grannybait has been used often in the U S (central U S) for at least 10 to 12 years.
Quote from: 'Goose' pid='89399' dateline='1464322391'Grannybait has been used often in the U S (central U S) for at least 10 to 12 years.
Yeah,i was suspecting it was a American slang term that has been transposed to Coin collecting as i've been around the traps(hehe) for a long time in Oz. and never heard it before.
Earliest mention i can find on CCF is a Canadian poster in 2011 and also on this Forum by Sy. on the 6/16/2011.
https://forums.collectors.com/textthread.aspx?catid=6&threadid=820747
"Date Posted: 6/16/2011 4:20 AM Posted By: syl(Senior Member)
I don't think that they ever circulated here. The coins lost their legal tender status 15-20 years ago and the banks would not redeem them for face value. The coins/sets that were left over from Montreal, unsold, were bought up in huge lots at a large discount by a couple US investors who then redeemed (or tried to redeem) them for face value, thereby making a tidy profit. Canadian banking put a halt to it and collectors and others were left holding onto coins at a big loss at the time .. they never became popular collector fodder. Recently, it's a mute point because the silver content alone is worth much much more than face value or cost from back then. I have a complete 28 coin set in the birch boxes that I bought back in the mid-80's for $225 and could sell them now, but I've kinda grown attached to them .. some are very nice designs;
others are granny bait. Now the coins were made in both Uncirc and proof by the mint, so maybe that's what Charlton means."
The term "Grannybait" isn't a brand new terminology being used on this forum in just the last few days and I am quite amazed that people are getting their knickers in a knot about it all of a sudden .
https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=1393
Quote from: 'trout' pid='89411' dateline='1464334223'getting their knickers in a knot
Granny-knickers? Or rather granny-undies which I can recall being in use at least 40 years ago.
No relation to "grundies"?
Are "Bombay Bloomers" similar?
Here are another couple of Grannybait coins that I found too hard to resist :angel:
With a mintage of only 2500 and an issue price of $320 for the Rams head coin and $360 for the Wheat sheaf coin I bided my time even though I really wanted these when they were first issued and waited until now to get them.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/Gold_wheat_sheaf.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/Gold_rams_head.jpg)
Now that is more your pappy bait kind of thing. There is nothing granny about those designs, they are timeless classics.
Give'em to me and I won't hurt ya :laugh2: promise :blush2:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='92166' dateline='1467890391'Give'em to me and I won't hurt ya :laugh2: promise :blush2:
If I had extra's of them Mate I would send you one :)
All good I'm just bein tough..well trying..did it work :friends:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='92170' dateline='1467892150'All good I'm just bein tough..well trying..did it work :friends:
Nah :laugh2:
:laugh2: I thought as much, oh well maybe next time :)
I recon it's about time I hit the sack, I just ordered MORE gannybait :angel:
https://eshop.ramint.gov.au/2016-10-Gold-C-Mintmark/210464.aspx
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92384' dateline='1468249574'I recon it's about time I hit the sack, I just ordered MORE gannybait :angel:
https://eshop.ramint.gov.au/2016-10-Gold-C-Mintmark/210464.aspx
Shame on you. Off to bed without any supper. :) :) :)
ha ha
he is the worst offender of what he so often complains about
he's an enigma our 'gone fishing' boy !!!~
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='92399' dateline='1468291228'ha ha
he is the worst offender of what he so often complains about
he's an enigma our 'gone fishing' boy !!!~
It may seem that way But I buy these coins with my "Eyes Wide Open".
I know with a real sense of certainty that as soon as I buy one of these types of coins that most of my money is irrecoverable, Much the same as when I buy a Movie ticket or a bag of Fish and Chips.
Making or preserving Wealth is NOT my primary goal when I buy coins, I buy them because I LIKE them and like all the pleasures and pursuits in life there is normally a monetary cost involved and I accept that :ok:
I do however strongly advise New collectors (and Old) NOT to buy these types of coins IF they are building a collection with the aim increasing its value like an Investment only, It is a recipe for Disaster :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92403' dateline='1468292582'I do however strongly advise New collectors (and Old) NOT to buy these types of coins IF they are building a collection with the aim increasing its value like an Investment only, It is a recipe for Disaster :ok:
I couldn't agree more. And yes, I've been eyeing this one as well. Dunno why, I just kind of like the look of it I guess. :dodgy:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='92409' dateline='1468296299'Quote from: 'trout' pid='92403' dateline='1468292582'I do however strongly advise New collectors (and Old) NOT to buy these types of coins IF they are building a collection with the aim increasing its value like an Investment only, It is a recipe for Disaster :ok:
I couldn't agree more. And yes, I've been eyeing this one as well. Dunno why, I just kind of like the look of it I guess. :dodgy:
It's Gold, it has a classic Sovereign design and "Well" it just looks nice.
What's not to like, except for the about $120 premium over melt price :angel:
i have the 2011 RAMS head on as the rams head is my favourite design in the pre-decs
it's nice to own and enjoy them without negative judgement or put downs
far beyond granny bait IMO
Quoteit's nice to own and enjoy them without negative judgement or put downs
I don't think anyone is judging or putting anyone down that buys these types of coins at all and even if they were I personally wouldn't give a "Rats" because it is MY collection and I will buy whatever I bloody well want.
What I think is happening is that people are giving information about these NCLT coins so that the members here can make an educated decision when they consider buying a coin that in all probability is only worth it's metal content for what is normally a rather large premium.
I don't think anyone here is being elitist or snobbish regarding these Grannybait coins at all and all they are doing is trying to "Enlighten" fellow members that these coins are NOT an investment but more of an "Indulgence" :ok:
I recently paid $750 for a Canberra Florin that was only graded MS63 just because it has a "Proof Like" strike and I will in all reality never recoup that money if and when I finally decide to sell it, But for Me personally it was money well spent because of what and how I collect.
I personally find that there is absolutely Nothing wrong with collecting Grannybait , as long as it is done with an "Eyes Open" approach as a collectable for enjoyment and not as an investment :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92410' dateline='1468296625'What's not to like, except for the about $120 premium over melt price :angel:
My thoughts exactly. I'm not sure I can stomach THAT much of a ripoff, but we'll see. Its certainly easier to resist at long distance than if I was standing in the shop with one in my hand, I must say. ;)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92415' dateline='1468298408'I personally find that there is absolutely Nothing wrong with collecting Grannybait , as long as it is done with an "Eyes Open" approach as a collectable for enjoyment and not as an investment :ok:
:yeah_that:
People buy stuff all the time at ridiculous prices, just because they enjoy them. And that's fine. As long as we class granny bait along with designer jeans, sunglasses and runners, no problemo.
The problem is we all started out blindly buying crap from the mints in the belief we were investing, for ourselves or our descendants. And we've learned the hard way that's just not the case. The only profits to be made are for the issuers and maybe a few middlemen when we need to cash out for a fraction of what we paid.
In my mind, this constitutes an unconscionable, deliberate scam on the part of the mints, and people deserve to be warned lest they fall victim to it. If they then choose to buy something anyway cos its pretty, that's fine, and I hope they enjoy it.
I picked this one up tonight for a lot less than the original issue price which is a good example of how these are really not a good investment buying them when they are released initially.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-2014-10-1-10-oz-999-Gold-Proof-Terra-Australis-/172270092155?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=jwCgwKGxKaiTu3TW2EPz5OM2f%252FY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
I have the 2011 Rams head, 2012 Wheat Sheaf, 2014 Terra Australis coin and the 2016 Sydney Mint coin.
All I need now to complete this little set is the 2013 Holey Dollar gold coin.
I am not going to bother with the 2015 $10 Gold coin as it isn't the same design as the other nclt and silver Proof 25mm dollars like the other years are which is why I am putting this small collection together.
Once I have had these graded they will look rather nice amongst all the 25mm silver proofs that I have on special pages that accommodate 9 slabs per page in the couple of albums that hold this collection. :yahoo:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92452' dateline='1468330196'I picked this one up tonight for a lot less than the original issue price
yep. $100 off a $360 coin is definitely NOT my idea of a good investment. And just about everything ends up in the bargain bin, which is the whole point of this thread.
Wondering if anyone has an opinion about the Perth Mint Phantom silver proof medallion, apart from maybe being thought of as Granny bait or Poppa's Panderings, whatever suits.:angel:
With a limited mintage of 3,000 and a possible world wide interested audience, I've got a good feeling about it. The last time something like this tickled my fancy was when they released the 2006 Redback Spider silver proof, and to my eventual sorrow I failed to act, they are selling for crazy prices these days :dash1:
Interested in your thoughts :)
I would think that the younger collectors wouldn't know who we are talking about when we mention 'The Ghost who Walks",
This sort of thing is Not for me I am afraid :ok:
I'm young...ish :mocking: I remember and like the phantom but don't think i'd buy a coin but doesn't mean other wouldn't. It's hard to know what coins will do well without that crystal ball and wish I had one.
i like it
tell me that the redback spider coin was a bad buy !!
anyways, I have lost enough plenty of $$ on other coins not at all granny bait numbers either
although I do believe the granny bait label net is being cast even wider as I wouldn't have thought that the small gold proofs were also included in the condemned forever to grannybait classification
ho hum
Quotealthough I do believe the granny bait label net is being cast even wider as I wouldn't have thought that the small gold proofs were also included in the condemned forever to grannybait classification
ho hum
Why not, Just because they are Gold?
They are what they are RG :ok:
little seems to NOT be granny bait lately
the list is sooo long that I have no bloody idea on what is or isn't the so called granny bait anymore,
doesn't matter - you know i get irked
so be it
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='92682' dateline='1468672500'little seems to NOT be granny bait lately
the list is sooo long that I have no bloody idea on what is or isn't the so called granny bait anymore,
doesn't matter - you know i get irked
so be it
Who knows RG, Maybe in 40-50 years what is now considered as grannybait may become the talk of the town and become prized possessions, Not unlike how the 1966 proof sets are regarded now :ok:
Anyway to me that is irrelevant as I just buy what I like the look of, Grannybait or not :)
Defining what is Grannybait and what isn't is a pretty grey area.
Some collectors define ANYTHING that wasn't issued for circulation as "Grannybait" and other collectors don't accept that any coin should be called Granybait ( lets just call it GB :ok: ).
At the moment there seems to be 3 categories of coins that come from the Mint.
Circulation coins, NCLT and GB.
Circulation coins are dead easy to work out what they are because these are the coins we use in our everyday commerce.
All coins that have a legal tender status but are specially made as collector coins are NCLT or Non Circulating Legal Tender coins and deciding which of these are GB is pretty much a personal choice but some of them like the Map shaped coins undoubtedly live in the GB camp.
It wasn't that long ago that the Proof strikes of our circulating coins were treated as GB.:angel:
Numismatics is an ever evolving hobby and ideas and what/how we collect WILL change as the years go by and that is a GOOD thing in my opinion.
My best advice is to collect what YOU like, because at the end of the day it is YOUR collection and as an investment idea Coins are pretty much a lousy choice anyway.
A large part of my collections consist of NCLT coins and some of them are what I personally consider as GB But the important thing for me is that I like them regardless of the fact that I will never be able to recoup the money I have spent on them :)
I have a few Shares, Some PM's and a superannuation account and THAT is my investments, The money I spend on my coins is simply a selfish "Indulgence" that I enjoy and if I win loose or draw it is irrelevant as this is one of my hobbies.
If I was to break down the costs per kilo of the fish I bring home with my other great love Fishing , Then that would make this pastime a waste of money as well.
No doubt about it, in fifty years time there will be increases in values of some items that we at this moment could never have allowed ourselves to contemplate, that's a given. But as always we look at offerings in the present day and generally buy what pleases us, and that's how it probably should be with this stuff. I'm not trying to influence others here, but for me this is one time to buy something I like and hopefully see it gain in value. If it doesn't well nothing lost really, it's all fun.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92688' dateline='1468679591'Defining what is Grannybait and what isn't is a pretty grey area.
Quite the pun Trout!!! :laugh2:
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='92690' dateline='1468681786'Quote from: 'trout' pid='92688' dateline='1468679591'Defining what is Grannybait and what isn't is a pretty grey area.
Quite the pun Trout!!! :laugh2:
I was wondering when someone would pick up on that :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92688' dateline='1468679591'Defining what is Grannybait and what isn't is a pretty grey area.
Is it though?
Anything that isn't at least potentially circulating is GB. So the maps, dishes, embedded capsules and outsize coins are all GB. Standard coins in crazy packaging is GB. Anything from 'Flag of Convenience' nations, which pretty much covers everything produced by the Perth Mint and private mints like Macquarie is GB.
'Real' coins, such as MYOs, Proofs, Privys, Specimens or sets are NCLT, but escape the GB tag because they can, and do, turn up in circulation.
Mind you, a lot of NCLT is just as bad an investment, or worse, than GB. *cough* Masterpieces! *cough*. But its not all just about valuations. Rather the intent to deceive and trick people into buying overpriced rubbish produced for no other reason than to rip them off.
Yes it's a grey area. If for no other reason than the term itself is so ill-defined. The yearly uncirculated and proof sets are a record of the circulation coinage but I'm not sure where the silver and gold sets fit in. And in 2006 didn't the sets include 1c and 2c coins which were not circulating at the time which is a bit confusing. However, any coin that is not a circulating denomination i.e. $5, $10 etc. is not a grey area.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='92702' dateline='1468696510'any coin that is not a circulating denomination i.e. $5, $10 etc. is not a grey area.
:agreed:
Quoteany coin that is not a circulating denomination i.e. $5, $10 etc. is not a grey area.
The 2000 Sydney Olympic games 28 $5 coin set is a good example of GB.
Then we have all the $10 State series, endangered species, Birds of Australia and the list goes on and on.
Even our Beloved 25mm $1 coin series has its own GB component although most of these are recent issues like the ABC 26 coin sets for 2015 and 2016.
Many collectors also consider the 25mm $1 Silver Proofs as GB But that hasn't stopped me collecting these and I have the complete set up to 2014 and a few of the 2015 and 2016 coins as well.
Most of the Masterpieces in Silver sets although exquisitely Minted and designed also tend to fall into the GB range.
The list of GB is rather large and is expanding rapidly as RAM and the Perth Mint are continually expanding their range of "Collectable" offerings.
If you do want to collect this type of coin it is best to wait a few years for the dust to settle and pick them up on the secondary market for what is often a fraction of the issue price :ok:
I do try and adhere to this advice but more often than not my impatience gets the better of Me :angel:
I picked up the 2007 Ashes $10 Gold coin yesterday to add to this Mini collection I am slowly putting together.
That just leaves only the 2013 Holy Dollar and dump coin to acquire. :yahoo:
Where do these 2016 $2 Olympics coins fit in, are they grey area or is it black and white (and yellow and blue and green and red)?
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='92904' dateline='1468955025'Where do these 2016 $2 Olympics coins fit in, are they grey area or is it black and white (and yellow and blue and green and red)?
I believe that they are not granny bait as the coins are going to be and are now in circulation.
Yes, I think you are technically correct but imo they are perilously close to the grey area.
The Olympic $2 coins are circulation issues But I highly doubt that that many will actually circulate as most people will tend to keep them and not spend them :ok:
If RAM gets "Tricky" and adds a "C" mintmark to the coins in the 5 coin set then these could be seen as GB But not the ones being distributed by Woolies at the moment.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92925' dateline='1468993391'If RAM gets "Tricky" and adds a "C" mintmark to the coins in the 5 coin set then these could be seen as GB But not the ones being distributed by Woolies at the moment.
Waddaya mean "
IF", Batman? I'm assuming that's a given. :dodgy:
That way they really screw up collectors who believed them and waited.
There are No mintmarks on the images of the coins on the RAM website and I would think that they would charge more than $15 a set if they had to make up a new die or to have to counterstamp all of these.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92928' dateline='1468994525'There are No mintmarks on the images of the coins on the RAM website and I would think that they would charge more than $15 a set if they had to make up a new die or to have to counterstamp all of these.
I expect RAM will do a C mintmark of all in another 5 coin set
Here is the latest arrival for my GB collection :)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_10_dollars.jpg)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93031' dateline='1469090313'Here is the latest arrival for my GB collection :)
Why GB collection, it's an Aussie coin? :scratch_one-s_head:
Still very nice, but out of my league. I did buy a couple itty bitty Aussie gold coins a few years ago, but came to my senses. :swoon:
I think in this case GB refers to the subject of this thread not the mother country.
Ah yes! :mocking: Of course, please forgive my 'blonde-ness'. Duh!
Your plea for forgiveness is entirely unnecessary, have fun!
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='93053' dateline='1469140797'Ah yes! :mocking: Of course, please forgive my 'blonde-ness'. Duh!
We could chip in and buy you a bottle of 'artificial intelligence' (black hair dye) if you like. :dodgy:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='93066' dateline='1469164813'We could chip in and buy you a bottle of 'artificial intelligence' (black hair dye) if you like. :dodgy:
Nah, I haven't really been blonde for abut 15 yrs, nearly all white/grey now. Thanks anyway. :angel:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='93066' dateline='1469164813'Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='93053' dateline='1469140797'Ah yes! :mocking: Of course, please forgive my 'blonde-ness'. Duh!
We could chip in and buy you a bottle of 'artificial intelligence' (black hair dye) if you like. :dodgy:
Cheeky Bugger :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93072' dateline='1469170355'Cheeky Bugger :angel:
Says another of the three musketeers. ;)
I just picked up the 2015 Anzac $10 Gold coin for $195 Delivered on eBay for my little collection of these.
The issue price was $300 + postage only a year ago, So these are most certainly in the GB class of coins at the moment :ok:
The 2015 $10 Gold coin arrived today.
Nicely detailed for such a small coin :good:
I also just got an email from RAM that my 2016 annual Silver proof set has been posted :yahoo:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2015__gold.jpg)
I see from the Aust Post website, you can buy,
160 years of Holden stamps.
50 years Anniversary of Play school stamps,
A B C Stamps, yep the whole 26 stamps but at least Aust post is not releasing all at once.
Maybe it's just coincidence & they don't collude with each other.
not the first time it's happened though, betcha it wont be the last.
:scratch_one-s_head: What are these stamp things you speak of interest :winkextra:
I don't collect stamps But one of the ladies at my General store has a Son that does.
Many of the packages I get are covered in stamps and I always make sure that she gets them, Just because I don't want them is no reason just to chuck em away in the bin if I can find someone that wants them :)