I was expecting to hear that our 5 cent was to be discontinued in our budget this week after all of the hype but it seems that it's future is still unlcear.Not even the
Treasurer knows what's going on
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/federal-election/budget2016/treasurer-scott-morrison-refuses-to-explain-the-future-of-the-five-cent-piece/news-story/d5688bc2e418439ad387969dcdf50649
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='88250' dateline='1462405248'Not even the Treasurer knows what's going on
And that surprises you Stevo :laugh2:
Pedro
Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='88251' dateline='1462406550'Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='88250' dateline='1462405248'Not even the Treasurer knows what's going on
And that surprises you Stevo :laugh2:
Pedro
No surprises really but you would think he would have some sort of comeback
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='88253' dateline='1462407215'No surprises really but you would think he would have some sort of comeback
:laugh2: ..... Yes, like ...... "Here's my two, I mean five, cents worth in relation to this ........."
It was a pretty fundamental question - well, for numismatists any way. It appears to have got the Treasurer in a bit of a lather. Imagine throwing out a question that was not directed at his masterpiece of a budget! :shock:
Pedro
Oh, the minting of the 5c has already ceased. :shok:
http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/scomo-declares-death-of-5-coin--prematurely/news-story/b66a8834abf0c8eb71ae944eeeae51a1
Pedro
not quite
and the new design will inspire a new popularity I reckon
"Assistant Minister to the Treasurer, Alex Hawke, confirmed to news.com.au today that while production of the coin was in sharp decline, it had not yet been halted.
The Mint made 58.2 million of the echidna coins in 2014 and it is understood they are still rolling out, with 20 million made in the latest batch."
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='88250' dateline='1462405248'Not even the Treasurer knows what's going on
Maybe they should be asking this bloke... :diablo:
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/4279872/images/n-PETER-DUTTON-large570.jpg)
They will end up as beads and bracelets ;) Worth 20 times their face value.
Mint waiting for near-useless 5c coin to 'die' (http://todayspaper.smedia.com.au/smh/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=SMH%2F2018%2F12%2F01&entity=Ar01704&sk=73A7F930&mode=text)
There is no need for any more circulating coin to be issued. The bald fact is the use of coin and bank notes is plummeting.
You only need coin/notes in our cities when the internet drops out or its the local bread shop where they only accept cash.
Fact: coins dont wear out. There are now more in circulation than ever.
Fact: you will still find first year issue coins in your change, I just reached into the change tin and pulled out first coin, a 1984 dollar piece.
Fact: who uses 5 cent pieces, answer nobody. Why are they making them?
So, what is the mint making now? Answer shiny coins for collectors.
My comment: the main users of local over the counter transactions at banks = noodlers. Main user of 50 and 100 dollar bills = drug dealers because they are untraceable. Most "counter" and other commercial transactions are now = tap card.
Its nice for old institutions to continue, support our mint by buying shiny coins and so they can keep making coin and notes for other countrys and operate as a profit centre.
Am I getting old and crabby or is it that I just see things via the pub test now?
Fred.
I had to top the 5c coins up in the till at work yesterday,
so someone is using them. Certainly cash sales are down though.
Last Saturday we made about 140 sales and 115 of those were
EFTPOS. We still need cash at our local fish and chip shop, but if
there was no cash, they would have to change. I always wonder
how much they actually declare as income.
In the past few months one of the ATMs I used to regularly use was removed and another ATM that I only used once had a notification up that it was soon to be removed.
In one of the pubs that I work I regularly see regulars making multiple booze purchases multiple times on their cards, their monthly statements probably have 100+ such purchases.
There are very good reasons to avoid cards and pay cash. I almost always pay cash (excluding online purchases where that isn't possible) and I would NEVER pay with anything but cash for any item that would bring a negative social credit or insurance score. China has introduced a social credit score , which currently applies only to Chinese, but China has back door access to virtually everyones information as they are both the world biggest hackers and the worlds main provider of smart phones and components to computers, including any cloud storage. The credit score is Big Brother on steroids, it is still in its early stages and will be fully operational by 2020. As for your insurance, already in the US they are using data about your purchases to assess your risk and premiums, so if you use a card to pay for booze, cigarettes, junk food, extreme sports equipment, Uber fare to a pub or club etc they will know. What most Chinese nationals visiting Australia probably don't realise is that whatever they buy here will be known to their government and anything that lowers their social score will also affect the score of their family and friends (if they get a bad score they lose the right to travel, internet connectivity, work opportunities, education etc). They even now put peoples social scores on many Chinese dating websites, so those with lower scores will find it hard to get married.
And working in pubs I pick up many a discarded 5 cent coin, and a few hundred each year adds up.
Relevant: https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=5331
Can only pay my water bill online and the @#!%^# online banking (St George) is down with no indication of when it will be available. Oh for the days when it was possible to get to pay bills at post offices and banks.
Blasted bank also kept on asking me to go to paperless statements, I kept on declining (I like a hard copy for many reasons including in case I get audited) but a month back they sent a letter stating that they were no longer sending out statements, buggers even thanked me for choosing online only statements. They even touted the benefits such as being able to see my statements for 7 years (gee, I can see my paper statements in my files that are 30 years old).
About to go do my shopping and hoping that I can access MY money (at least I keep some cash handy for such situations, I know plenty who don't and they will be screwed if the system goes down).
Quote from: 'Triggersmob' pid='117732' dateline='1543624863'Last Saturday we made about 140 sales and 115 of those were
EFTPOS.
So 1/6 customers pays cash, 5/6 pay with card. That's indeed rather low.
I would say from my unscientific observations at supermarkets (when I shop) that 2/5 pay cash and 3/5 pay with card here in Germany. That's also down from the 50:50 one or two years ago.
Recent activities looking for the 2019 early dollars have made it obvious that minted coinage for general circulation is on the way out. The new poker machines for instance will only provide for a printed ticket when cashing in, and many new machines don't provide a slot for coins. IMO it will be a sad day when we can no longer pay cash, but something Governments yearn for and just another instance of our lives being controlled by big brother.
The 2019 dated coins are the thin edge of a wedge.
Issuing coins with dates out of sequence simply means that the date has no meaning any more.
Actually as we have seen coins can now be made easily with anything on them, any image, any date.
They could make new coins with 1966 or 2030 on them now and who apart from coin collectors would care?
Our hobby relied on a sequential dating system with new issues by date each year to give you something to collect.
Now they make them with anything on them and tell you to collect that because of that, not the date.
With the way dies are made they can manipulate the sizing of image so there are no longer individual die types for year sets, just a new batch of dies with anything on them.
Thus we now have coins where the date doesn't matter because it could be anything and the image doesn't matter because it can be anything within a window of size.
How are you going to collect coins in any rational way by date and image type as we have been doing, in that new scenario?
Coin collecting died when the technology of die making changed back around 2000-2010.
Thats why most research on coins in Australia is on the pre-decimal or early decimal eras where the coins were manufactured for domestic and commercial use as MONEY. Not like now where coins are made as COLLECTABLES and subject to that market whim of boom and bust .
I am getting old and crabby!!!
Fred.
I too am sad at the reduction of cash payments. It is a method whereby the government can track your spending, where the banks and the card issuers can charge you for buying essentials. It is control and making money for the already rich banks. It was a sad day when the government (in bed with the banks) would no longer let people have a paycheque with real money.
Plus, it puts brake on coin collecting. I am sad and angry that we are letting the government have more and more control and allow the banks to make even more money and we never saw it coming.
Bring back cash...viva la piece de monnaie...
Actually I'm just waiting for some marketing genius at the Mint to discover that old dated Decimal Unc and Proof coins sell for big money and from their I-pad knock up some "New old stock" dies and re-issue those pesky rare proof and Unc sets. How easy would that be and what a money spinner!
What could possibly go wrong?
Fred.
Shades of The Bombay Mint Restrikes of Australia's Proof Copper Coins - 1942 and 1943 (https://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/research/bombay-mint-restrikes-australias-proof-copper-coins-1942-and-1943).
I hope you haven't planted the seed of an idea. I think some mint staff might visit here occasionally.
(https://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/research/bombay-mint-restrikes-australias-proof-copper-coins-1942-and-1943)
Don't worry Jeff, nobody listens to me anyway................................
Fred.
I do Fred but that doesn't mean much because nobody listens to me either.
We are likely members of the SOFT* mob.
*Silly Old Farts Team.
I listen too ........ and I speak very good Eeeenglish. :laugh2:
¿Qué?
[font='Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif](https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11067/manuel.jpg)[/font]
If Ross is talking about it then it is becoming an issue.
Royal Australian Mint expects lowly silver coins to be phased out amid rise of contactless payments (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-30/5-and-10c-soon-to-die-graceful-death/11910736)
The five cent is easily gotten rid of, but the 10 cent is not. Keeping just the 20 and 50 would mean it would be much more difficult to make change:
"Here's your $1.30 change" with the 10¢ piece: 3 coins ($1, 20¢, 10¢).
"Here's your $1.30 change" without a 10¢ piece: 5 coins (50¢ and 4 x 20¢).
If cost-saving is an issue, then we can do what literally every other former-sterling-currency-using country (except the Solomon Islands) has done, and make the coins smaller. And if people are still complaining about the inconvenient shape of the 50¢, then make it an equilaterally-curved-heptagon like Britain and many other countries use; they're specifically designed to be a "distinctive shape" that still works well in vending machines.
Not that I've ever seen a vending machine here in Australia refuse or reject 50 cent pieces.
Solomon Islands have had smaller coins since 2012 haven't they?
Don't know about making coins smaller, wasn't that the complaint about the threepence?
In England it was at least - was it in Australia too? I guess that was a problem that never even looked at unlike the size of the bronze coins.
Would have been in Australia as our threepence is smaller than UK 3d.
Similarly complaints about the 1¢ which is barely larger (and definitely smaller than the brass UK 3d).
I have an idea the brass threepence was made larger than the silver one -21mm vs 16mm- partly because many considered the existing threepence too small.
I would revamp the coinage for circulation.
The 5 and 10 cent are not required.
The 20 cent is the equivalent of the penny on old school speak.
The currency should be sized by denomination.
We should have 20c, 1 dollar, 2 dollar and 5 dollar coins. Finis.
The 20 can use the 5 c size , 1 dollar the 10c, 2 dollar the 20c and 5 dollar the 50c.
Adjust the weights of the coins by thickness for the vending machines although these are a minority now as most machines will be card activated soon.
Simple and give a boost to the coin collecting industry with a whole new set of coinage to collect.
Easy?
Fred.
Sounds logical Fred so it probably won't happen like that.
$5 coin would be good but can't be the size of the NCLT $5 coins -just too big.
The $5 Coin could be the same size as the bi-metallic ones they issued in the 1990's. They put out about 6 or 7 of them. They are roughly the size of a 20 cent and are actually 24 sided.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces10257.html
Mike
Scrapping the 5 cent coin will be a nightmare. Currently the 5 cent coin can be rounded down or up for items ending in 2 or 3 cents but how do you round 5 cents as mathematically it is midway between 0 and 10. As for scrapping the 10 cent coin it would be even worse as not only does it lie midway between 0 and 20 it would also create headaches at 50 cents. Plus it would require all kinds of adjustments to laws and regulations such as the 10 cent deposit on returnable bottles that most states have.
As for adjusting the weights (or composition) of coins it wouldn't just be vending machines affected but coin deposit machines and coin rolling machines. Plus shop tills would get confusing with the mixing of different coins in the same slots (or needing extra slots).
Fred you'd be cringing with todays announcement of the tooth fairy $2 release as would most collectors not dealers
They have changed our currency before and everyone winged and bitched......but I did not see people throwing money in the bin. We sucked it up like big girls and boys and within a few weeks we went on like nothing had happened. Same think happened in New Zealand. In fact it has happened all over the world.
I don't see it as a huge deal
QuoteI don't see it as a huge deal
:i_agree:
Yeah I recall the hoo hah that went on when the logical system of a monetary system based on 10's was introduced.
The old system where 2 half pennies made a penny, 12 pennys made a shilling and 20 shillings made a pound (or if you were a snob 21 shillings made a Guinea) was simply colonial rubbish and endless defenders of the faith leapt to the bastions to repel the new Decimal thinking. There were endless conversions charts to work out how many pennies or groats or something equalled a dollar or a pound and how evil businessmen were cheating the workers out of 1 cent when making the change from cents to pennies or something.
Guess what? it took about 3 weeks like Big F says for people to stop trying to work out 12 of this equalled some bloody thing and 20 of that something else and if one groat was missing somewhere.
A system that worked on the same principle as the number of toes and fingers on your appendages was so simple even people like me adopted it post haste. We forgot all about 12 of this and 20 of that (or 21) and worked on 10 of this or 100 of that.
As for needing 5c pieces......who the hell uses them? What shop sells things that end with 5 or 10 cent?
Anyway in my government, ........ prices will be based on minimum multiples of 20 cents, problem solved!
All citizens will comply..........we have our ways.........................
I'll get Scotty from Marketing onto it..............................
The very few retail places that actually use a cash register now will have no trouble with till pocket counts because in my system there are LESS types of coins, there will be spare pockets in the till! Remember the tills that had to have SIX coin pockets? 1-2-5-10-20-50 cents, then they introduced 1 and 2 dollar coins but chopped the 1 and 2 cent just in time.
In about 5 years there will be NO cash transactions at all for normal shopping, even the local chip and paper shops will convert from being hold outs or go out of business. Come on even a 76 year old fuddly duddly like me uses a smart card to do everything except buy the newspaper, the chip shop we go to now uses a card processor and is so glad she does, no more till, no more bloody money dropped onto the fat just bip bip and do you want a receipt? People need to look forward not back, otherwise we would still be struggling with Farthings and Groats and Guineas!
There..i feel so much better now.
Fred.