I was certain there would be at least one piece of 'Granny Bait' from the RAM to Commemorate this event, but it looks like it is going straight through to the keeper. :angel:
Or has it happened already and I've missed it? :dontknow:
Not sure about the Granny bait. but happy birthday QE11.
The first English monarch to reach this milestone. :)
There's a mass of Royal Mint stuff. Link (http://www.royalmint.com/our-coins/events/queens-90th-birthday)
I had a look at the UK and Canada's offerings and they appear to be on the ball. Not letting an opportunity go begging.
It'll come. Patience.
The RAM are doing a pre order and mintage is only to the amount pre ordered by 13th June
https://eshop.ramint.gov.au/2016-%20Frosted-%20Uncirculated%20-Three-%20Coin-%20Set/311273.aspx
Talk about waiting until the last minute. :biggrin:
I just ordered a couple of the 3 coin sets.
The obverse on the 20 coins are unique, Though not sure what they are referring to as a frosted uncirculated finish ?
Good value at $25 a set well done RAM not granny bait as nancy called it
Some more trinkets for you Nancy. :D
http://www.downies.com/Perth-Mint/Australia-2016-90th-Birthday-High-Relief-Silver-Coin/7109/productview.aspx?utm_source=Downies+Online+Email+Newsletters&utm_campaign=aa6fe52db6-WEEKLY_Queen_s_Birthday_d-16-0416&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cb58a32640-aa6fe52db6-29570377
Pedro
Bugga I was too slow to gain this bargain
http://www.downies.com/The-Royal-Mint/Great-Britain-2016-QEII-90th-Birthday-5oz-Gold-Proof/7127/productview.aspx
Would a 90 cent coin be too much to ask?
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='87670' dateline='1461270746'Would a 90 cent coin be too much to ask?
Probably not if they think it would be a money spinner. The RAM obviously did not have your 'think outside the square' view.
You should make a suggestion to the RAM -if 'Lillibet' is still around in ten years they could issue a "100 cent" (not $1) coin and send royalties to you as the originator of the idea.
Now, I know you can get postage stamps with your face on them for a fee.....I have all sorts of ideas for personalised coins.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='87672' dateline='1461272236'Probably not if they think it would be a money spinner.
Oh well, I have to assume the RAM knows how to make money.
There is a three coin set out from the RAM.
Must order on line and issue will be as required or order.
Hmm.... i actually like these... because of the frosted finish. Bit different to how the frosting is with the proof coins.
A bit of a slip up at the mint it seems. Nothing available come QEII's birthday then a late "made to order" offering. I'm assuming the "made to order" part covers their butts as they can't get the production out until August.
Too much time spent on the ANZAC to Afghanistan sets and dropped the ball on the QEII 90th.
It will be interesting to see how these coins come out.
If you haven't ordered the 3 coin set from the RAM then today is the last day as Monday is a Public Holiday.
Thank you for the reminder
I wonder when we will finally find out the actual mintage figures for this particular set ?
Quote from: 'jens coins' pid='90313' dateline='1465516993'If you haven't ordered the 3 coin set from the RAM then today is the last day as Monday is a Public Holiday.
Should still be able to make order online. i think.. for anyone still wanting these.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='90401' dateline='1465684850'I wonder when we will finally find out the actual mintage figures for this particular set ?
I ordered some.. so curious as to the final mintage also.
I see a few re-sellers/dealers have these advertised... i wonder how many they booked.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='90427' dateline='1465703064'I see a few re-sellers/dealers have these advertised... i wonder how many they booked.
Isn't this guaranteed to be a bad idea since supply and demand will be perfectly matched?
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='90433' dateline='1465711097'Isn't this guaranteed to be a bad idea since supply and demand will be perfectly matched?
I see what you mean for sure.
But i guess the dealers know what stock they can move. The chance to buy from the mint is just about over.
And for $25 you can not do much better these days.
There will be quite a few collectors that are blissfully unaware that this set is available and that the frosted uncirculated finish is quite different to the rest of our 20 and 50 cent coins that we have in our collections at the moment.
All 3 coins are quite unique normal design coins because of the finish and the obverses on the 20 cent coins and I suggest that if you want these to add to your collections then get them now from the RAM website before they hit the secondary market :ok:
Ah i see so the frosted parts are reverse.
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='90490' dateline='1465740870'Ah i see so the frosted parts are reverse.
From my understanding both the reverse and the obverse are frosted.
These will be interesting to see what they look like "In Hand" and I can't wait to put them under my camera :)
:scratch_one-s_head: how many coins do you have under there, must be a big camera :mocking:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='90527' dateline='1465774664'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='90490' dateline='1465740870'Ah i see so the frosted parts are reverse.
From my understanding both the reverse and the obverse are frosted.
These will be interesting to see what they look like "In Hand" and I can't wait to put them under my camera :)
Ooops. I meant to say "reversed". Used to be the device, not the field that's frosted isn't it, which is opposite to these?
3 coin set for 90th bday. 2016
(http://www.downies.com/uploadimage/product/2904201631900.jpg)
Images from www.downies.com
Compared with frosted baby set 2016
(http://www.universalcoinco.com.au/image/cache/data/2016%20Baby%20Twenty%20Cents%20-%2017908-525x525.jpg)
(http://www.universalcoinco.com.au/image/cache/data/2016%20Baby%20Fifty%20Cents-%2017908-525x525.jpg)
Images from universalcoinco.com.au
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='90609' dateline='1465817392'(http://www.universalcoinco.com.au/image/cache/data/2016%20Baby%20Fifty%20Cents-%2017908-525x525.jpg)
Interesting to see double bars on that.
:agreed:
and how thick it is.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='91832' dateline='1467448424'Interesting to see double bars on that.
Seems the 2016 is the year of the year of the double bars. Not just the proofs.
As this coin set won't be dispatched until the first of next month I won't get my sets for at least 6 weeks or more.
I am really looking forward to seeing these "in hand" and I hope they are worth the long wait.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='91849' dateline='1467470192'Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='91832' dateline='1467448424'Interesting to see double bars on that.
Seems the 2016 is the year of the year of the double bars. Not just the proofs.
Which other 50c coins this year have a double bar?
I have only noticed this on the Baby Proof coin above , Maybe I have overlooked the other 2016 50 cent issues .
The Baby Proof 50c coin I sent away to be graded didn't have the double bar.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/aaa.jpg)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='91986' dateline='1467646914'Which other 50c coins this year have a double bar?
I have only noticed this on the Baby Proof coin above , Maybe I have overlooked the other 2016 50 cent issues .
The Baby Proof 50c coin I sent away to be graded didn't have the double bar.
Trout,
I don't have my coins in hand to confirm, but the images on the mints website for "2016 50c Circ Coin" show double bars i believe.
QuoteI don't have my coins in hand to confirm, but the images on the mints website for "2016 50c Circ Coin" show double bars i believe.
I just had a look at all the images of the 2016 50c COA coins on the RAM mint shop and every one of them showed a double bar, Even the new Changeover coins :angel:
I actually got pretty excited when I saw the image when it was posted and looked through all my 2016 50c coins , But alas it is not to be :dash1:
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='91994' dateline='1467676155'Trout,
I don't have my coins in hand to confirm, but the images on the mints website for "2016 50c Circ Coin" show double bars i believe.
They do indeed, though I didn't believe anyone has photos of a set they have purchased with double bars.
I should know better than to take the photos from the mints website as being too accurate.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='92686' dateline='1468676571'I should know better than to take the photos from the mints website as being too accurate.
Not your fault Mate, You were only trying to help :ok:
RAM probably needs a kick up the Bum though :)
It sucks because i would of liked the chance to easily buy a new double-bar coin. Kind of false advertising.
Getting back on topic, im looking forward to getting these 90th bday coins. Not too long now.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='92844' dateline='1468881909'It sucks because i would of liked the chance to easily buy a new double-bar coin. Kind of false advertising.
Getting back on topic, im looking forward to getting these 90th bday coins. Not too long now.
Yes only a couple of weeks now then about another 7-10 days for Aus Post to get them to me.
The Mintage for this set is 9108, Not too shabby for what is basically a subscription issue :good:
I can just see the reaction of the bottom feeders that are now lumbered with dozens if not hundreds of these sets that they had expected to be a very small mintage to take advantage of :laugh2:
9108 is a small mintage and there are more 50c collectors than this so I'm happy I secured 1 set
9108 is pretty low. Anything under 10k is attractive to me.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='92985' dateline='1469054705'9108 is pretty low. Anything under 10k is attractive to me.
Either there wasn't that much interest in this set or some collectors were unaware it was available.
Also at $25 a set they weren't in the bargain range and this may have influenced some as well.
All 3 of the coins in this set are quite unique and I am looking forward to receiving mine.
The yearly silver proof set has a mintage of just 1966 and it has a round silver 50c in it along with the 1 and 2c coins.
These are still available as far as I know :ok:
My "in come the dollars in come the cents" set will have to fill that void... if i wasnt trying to buy a house i would be all over it.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='92995' dateline='1469065033'My "in come the dollars in come the cents" set will have to fill that void... if i wasnt trying to buy a house i would be all over it.
The Silver proof set is presented in pretty much the same size and shape box except that it is made of wood.
I think it will complement the popular in come the dollars/cents set very nicely :good:
QuoteIt sucks because i would of liked the chance to easily buy a new double-bar coin. Kind of false advertising.
The 50 Cent coin in the 2015 2 coin 50.50 set is a double bar proof :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='92996' dateline='1469065539'The 50 Cent coin in the 2015 2 coin 50.50 set is a double bar proof :)
Oh really.. is that for both coins, or just one? And is this universal, if this is so, i will order one tonight. Thanks for the info.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='93020' dateline='1469086031'Quote from: 'trout' pid='92996' dateline='1469065539'The 50 Cent coin in the 2015 2 coin 50.50 set is a double bar proof :)
Oh really.. is that for both coins, or just one? And is this universal, if this is so, i will order one tonight. Thanks for the info.
As far as I am aware the round 50c is just a standard coin, the proof has the double bars.
I only found out about this myself yesterday and have ordered one from eBay.
I should get it in about a week, Maybe it would be wise to wait until I can say for certain that the proof has the double bars or maybe one of our members that have one of these sets could confirm this for us.
Ill wait on you or someone else confirming it for certain. Anyone want to chime in?
Edit:
I pulled the trigger, so ill confirm when it arrives. Thanks again for the heads up trout.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='93035' dateline='1469094985'Ill wait on you or someone else confirming it for certain. Anyone want to chime in?
Edit:
I pulled the trigger, so ill confirm when it arrives. Thanks again for the heads up trout.
As I live in the West you will most probably get your coin before I do :(
Hey Trout,
Well you were right, i got mine and the dodecagonal coin is double-bar.
Thanks for the lead. I had over looked this release, as the mints photos hadn't shown it.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='93199' dateline='1469411510'Hey Trout,
Well you were right, i got mine and the dodecagonal coin is double-bar.
Thanks for the lead. I had over looked this release, as the mints photos hadn't shown it.
That's great news Mate.
I still haven't got mine yet and am now looking forward to getting them even more :good:
Can you post an image of the double bar Mate ?
Hi Trout,
I made a separate thread: " Double Bar 50c "
https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=4567
These 3 coin sets should start getting shipped out from RAM on Monday.
Being in the West I probably won't see mine for 7-10 later, So if anyone gets theirs sooner a few images posted here would be nice :)
With a bit of luck maybe the 50c in this set will sport a double bar on it as well
Waiting ... waiting.. .... see them listed on Ebay for next week but at twice the price.
(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Myphotosherenow/s-l1600_zpsj3k0zm5h.jpg) (http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/Myphotosherenow/media/s-l1600_zpsj3k0zm5h.jpg.html)
I ordered mine on 21/4/16, Still no word about shipment from RAM :dash1:
Same ere. I am still waiting.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='93867' dateline='1470617237'Same ere. I am still waiting.
Considering that they were supposed to start shipping these last Monday RAM are making a pretty poor fist of this lot :dash1:
QuoteWaiting ... waiting.. .... see them listed on Ebay for next week but at twice the price.
I had a look at these on eBay last night and there are quite a few different sellers wanting $50 or more for these, Nobody has even seen these yet and they were only $25 from RAM and with a mintage of over 9,000 they are NOT rare or even a scarce set?
It also appears that the same sellers have the 5 coin Olympic sets for sale at heavily marked up prices as well, What gives here as these are still available from RAM at $15 a pop?
You know that, I know that, we all (here) know that but a lot of eBay buyers don't know that and have probably never thought to do some research.
Of course the wording of listings by these sellers usually strongly suggests these are rare and hard to obtain.
caveat emptor (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caveat%20emptor)
Status on my order is still "open"... i wonder if they have even made the coins yet? :/
Has anyone here had notification that their set has been posted yet ???
No, nothing yet. Hope these are worth the painful wait :)
Yes considering that I paid for these in April :angel:
Yes, I received my p0ostal advice yesterday, Thursday, by email.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='94353' dateline='1470990914'Yes, I received my p0ostal advice yesterday, Thursday, by email.
Nice, Looks like they are finally starting to get these moving.
I just hope that the coins live up to my expectations :)
I received my postal advice Thursday,
I haven't heard any thing about my order yet.
Tania
Heard nothing as well as yet.
I received my two sets today and the coins look good.
Oh thats good to hear they are arriving. No postal advice here for me yet.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='94662' dateline='1471261103'Oh thats good to hear they are arriving. No postal advice here for me yet.
Me neither :cray:
I has been 2 weeks now since the date that these were supposed to have been dispatched, I have fired off an email asking what the "GO" is with these and why the extended delay in the shipping.
I have been (for Me) remarkably patient so far But that is starting to wear somewhat thin the longer this delay becomes :angel:
As long as when they finally get here the coins are good ill be happy.
Received today they look fantastic
Quote from: 'rbware' pid='94724' dateline='1471333576'Received today they look fantastic
You are not helping with my anger management and Patience issues here Mate :laugh2:
Oh Dear! I saw that post and thought it would not help trout's peace of mind.
Mrs Robster is still waiting also, however marrying me has created a very patient woman!:angel:
I have received an email letting me know my order has been shipped.
Tania
WOOOOOOHOOOOOO :yahoo:
My sets are finally in the mail :dance2:
I fly out tomorrow for a few days work and maybe they will be at the post office next week when I get home :)
Just received my 4 sets that I ordered and 1 is damaged.
Have sent photos to RAM and have to wait and see what happens. They can't replace it as they were made to order.
Are the coins OK Jen ??
If so I have no problem sending you one of my sets ( when they eventually get here) that isn't damaged to replace yours if you like.
As I will definitely be pulling at least one of these apart to add to my albums the packaging isn't that important :)
Just got my shipping notice.
Notification received! :wavemulticolor:
I received a notification from the RAM today advising of a delay in shipping my order. Curious as I don't actually have an order in at the moment?
Thanks for the offer Jim.
The coins look alright its the packaging.
Will wait and see what the RAM have to say.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='94920' dateline='1471505671'I received a notification from the RAM today advising of a delay in shipping my order. Curious as I don't actually an order in at the moment?
I got one of those too and have no order outstanding at present either. Think the RAM are just sending the advice out generally since they seem to be a little snowed under with orders.
Pedro
Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='94933' dateline='1471509856'Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='94920' dateline='1471505671'I received a notification from the RAM today advising of a delay in shipping my order. Curious as I don't actually an order in at the moment?
I got one of those too and have no order outstanding at present either. Think the RAM are just sending the advice out generally since they seem to be a little snowed under with orders. Pedro
It's easier to just send them out to all their customers, whether or not they have waiting orders. Some of their grammar left a bit to be desired.
be rest assured that your
Please be advised that contacting us via email or phone is unable to escalate the delivery process of your order
Picked mine up from post office.. pleasantly surprised how nice these coins are considering the reasonable price-tag.
According to the tracking my HM Birthday coins should arrive tomorrow 4 months after I had paid for them.
it has been quite a long wait and I hope that they can live up to my expectations :angel:
Im sure they will trout, keeping in mind these cost $25 for a set of 3 somewhat unique coins.. i don't think you can get a better buy this year.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='95435' dateline='1471966594'Im sure they will trout, keeping in mind these cost $25 for a set of 3 somewhat unique coins.. i don't think you can get a better buy this year.
The in come the dollars/cents sets will take a lot of beating for being the RAM best product of the year in my book.
I will know if these can top that tomorrow :ok:
Received today, lovely set!
My coins arrived today as well.
What a beautiful set of coins, The finish on these is quite Stunning.
These look like a coin a collector would design :good:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/hm_birthday.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/hm_birthday1.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/hm_birthday2.jpg)
You would have to assume that Ian Rank-Broadley and Stuart Devlin collect at least some coins.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='95466' dateline='1472014868'You would have to assume that Ian Rank-Broadley and Stuart Devlin collect at least some coins.
The designs are the same, It's the different finish that is rather nice :)
Gee they look like a bit of a funny mix, proof but then not a proof :scratch_one-s_head:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='95482' dateline='1472019792'Gee they look like a bit of a funny mix, proof but then not a proof :scratch_one-s_head:
Yes they are different But they do look rather good.
Anywhere else in the World and these coins would be described as a Reverse Proof.
However these have a strange description on the packaging, Ram calls these a "Frosted Uncirculated" finish and much like the Wedding Set coins which were described as "Gem Uncirculated" they are a stupid and ill informed description of a coins finish.
WTF these sound like Grades NOT a description of a coins "Finish" :dash1:
RAM employs some extremely talented people and they produce World Class coins But their people in the marketing department stuff that up when they come up with these basically stupid coin descriptions from time to time :dash1:
I just got an email from RAM letting me know that another order of these coins is on it's way.
I went into my RAM account and sure enough I had put another order in at a later date than the first one by mistake as I must have forgotten that I had previously ordered some of these.
Bugger :dash1:
I am thinking of sending a set of these each to NGC and PCGS to be graded and to see how they attribute these.
I imagine that they would be scratching their heads for a while making a decision as to what to call these :)
I see then as a mixture of a Specimen, Proof and a Reverse Proof finish.
The information from RAM is that normal Business strike planchet's were used But the nice clear/smooth fields found on these coins indicate that the dies used were highly polished, Maybe they were struck more than once as well.
They are an interesting and attractive coin and are a very different finish to what we are used to :good:
It would be interesting to see what they get attributed as.
I have just noticed that the 50c coin that is included in the HM Birthday set is also available from Aus Post in a PNC.
I can't see Aus post pulling apart the HM Birthday sets to use the 50c coin to produce these So it looks like the mintage of 9108 will be wrong for the 50c coin in the set :angel:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-2016-Queen-Elizabeth-II-90th-Birthday-50c-PNC-1998-Rank-Broadley-/122132469875?hash=item1c6fa99873:g:WvQAAOSwzaJX2KXK
I just had a closer look at that PNC and the mintage stated is 9000.
as the 50c coin in this set is exactly the same as the one in the HM Birthday Pre Order set then the mintage for this 50c is over 18,000.
More than a little bit underhanded of RAM to let us think that the coins in the HM Birthday set were ONLY available in the Pre Order Set and NO others were to be available in this limited issue and yet they produced another 9000 for Aus post and doubled the mintage.:dodgy:
I guess the mintage number is just a packaging number now... pretty shitty.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='99353' dateline='1475369532'I guess the mintage number is just a packaging number now... pretty shitty.
I think it is wrong and dishonest myself.:dodgy:
To be told that you have to pre order the coins because that is the ONLY way they will be available and the number of the sets ordered will be the mintage figure then supply Aus Post with the exact same coins to put on the market is a blatant LIE.
Do RAM think we are completely stupid and wouldn't notice :dash1:
Maybe, just maybe, that the pre orders were for the full three coin carded set only.
Did the RAM supply AustPost with the two different 20c pieces? I don't think so.
So as far as I can see, the RAM is quite within their right to call for Pre Orders.
Maybe, just maybe people are reading to much into these things.
Not reading into anything Bruce.
We were told that these coins were ONLY available with the pre order and it was the only way to acquire them.
We now know that they are ALSO available from the post office.
We were LIED to pure and simple :dodgy:
The 20c coins are in PNC's as well.
They also have a mintage of 9000.
These are pictured on page 25 of the September / October Stamp Bulletin.
When I first seen the PNC's I wasn't sure if they had the same finish as the 3 coin set.
So unless only 108 sets went to collectors and dealers Australia Wide RAM is full of BS :dodgy:
Ah well not the first time we have been fed a line of BS from RAM and I doubt that it will be the last :(
I have sent the following email to the RAM:
"Dear Sir/Madam,
I am a keen coin collector and I purchased two carded sets of the three coin set celebrating the 90th birthday of QE11. I was led to believe that these carded sets would be limited to 9,000 sets and the only way to secure them was to pre order. This I did.
I am now wondering, that if these coins were technically a "limited edition" to the carded sets only, why is it that these same coins can be secured through Australia Post mounted in a PNC.
If this is the case, doesn't that make it a mockery of this carded set being a limited edition?
I would be interested to know how the RAM can advertise something one way and then go behind collectors back and do something else.
I am a member of an online coin forum and your response will be posted to that forum.
Regards,
Bxxxx M"
If and when I get a reply, I shall post here.
Goldseeker
The 3 coin set wasn't advertised as 9000 sets. It was a minted to order type deal.. if 400 people pre-order there would be 400... if 20,000 pre-order there would be 20,000 sets minted etc.
This really made me think pre-order was absolutely the only way these coins would be available...
Don't do it Mate.
The mob that run that site much prefer that their dirty laundry stays hidden :ok:
I think the motto is "Don't let the truth spoil a good promotion" or something similar :laugh2:
Anyway say "Hi" to Dion for me and tell him it is OK to post in other forums , We won't bite his head off :ok:
HI,
The problem with the mintage figures is that you need to read the fine print when the "mint to order" was announced:
"The 2016 20c & 50c 90th Birthday Cu-Ni FrUnc Trio is a 'made-to-order' product of the Royal Australian Mint. The mintage of the 2016 20c & 50c 90th Birthday Cu-Ni FrUnc Trio will be closed by the Mint on June 13 2016, and the Mint will only begin dispatch of this product from August 1 2016."
So presumably an independent client of the RAM (namely Australia Post) would have placed a "made to order " of 9000 coin sets prior to the closing date of June 13th.
Australia Post places the 27,000 coins in their 27,000 PNC envelopes and markets them as a limited issue of 9000 of each PNC.
We then add to that order the orders made by collectors to get the final mintage.
In my case the 4 cards are numbered 005466 to 005469.
Makes sense to me. One can presume that they needed to have some idea of the total mintage given the special tooling that would have been required to produce the frosting and the extra time required to produce the coins.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
Quote from: 'notcb' pid='99395' dateline='1475402691'HI,
The problem with the mintage figures is that you need to read the fine print when the "mint to order" was announced:
"The 2016 20c & 50c 90th Birthday Cu-Ni FrUnc Trio is a 'made-to-order' product of the Royal Australian Mint. The mintage of the 2016 20c & 50c 90th Birthday Cu-Ni FrUnc Trio will be closed by the Mint on June 13 2016, and the Mint will only begin dispatch of this product from August 1 2016."
So presumably an independent client of the RAM (namely Australia Post) would have placed a "made to order " of 9000 coin sets prior to the closing date of June 13th.
Australia Post places the 27,000 coins in their 27,000 PNC envelopes and markets them as a limited issue of 9000 of each PNC.
We then add to that order the orders made by collectors to get the final mintage.
In my case the 4 cards are numbered 005466 to 005469.
Makes sense to me. One can presume that they needed to have some idea of the total mintage given the special tooling that would have been required to produce the frosting and the extra time required to produce the coins.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
IF that is the case then why did RAM put the 9,108 mintage figure out there ??
IF Aus Post did indeed order 9,000 units of these sets then that mintage figure would have been 18,108.
the scenario that I am thinking is that RAM was unable to attract enough collectors/dealers orders to make this project Viable/profitable and they offered Aus Post a "Deal" and produced the extra coins.
This actually makes sense because if it was a "Kosher" arrangement where Aus post went through the same ordering system that was originally set up for these then these PNC's would have been released as soon as the other carded sets were and not a couple of Months down the track and under the radar as they are now :dodgy:
Trout ,
Quite possibly you are correct. I have not seen this 9108 figure that you quote - where did that come from and was it "official"?
We await a responses to Bruce's email.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
Quote from: 'notcb' pid='99397' dateline='1475406752'Trout ,
Quite possibly you are correct. I have not seen this 9108 figure that you quote - where did that come from and was it "official"?
We await a responses to Bruce's email.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
Yes it was an official mintage announcement by RAM.
I doubt that Bruce will get a definitive answer on this as this and other forums are monitored by the SYC forum staff and this will be in the too embarrassing/Hard bin by now :ok:
Quote from: 'notcb' pid='99397' dateline='1475406752'Trout ,
Quite possibly you are correct. I have not seen this 9108 figure that you quote - where did that come from and was it "official"?
We await a responses to Bruce's email.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
The 9108 number was announced by the RAM on social media (Twitter and Facebook) on July 19th after the cut off for pre-order on June 13th.
QuoteThe 9108 number was announced by the RAM on social media (Twitter and Facebook) on July 19th after the cut off for pre-order on June 13th.
I wonder how RAM will explain the extra 9,000 sets of these to the collectors that pre ordered them.
Maybe they will say that because these PNC coins are in different packaging that they are different coins to the HM Set :dodgy:
I think this supply of the coins for the PNC's is pretty "Underhanded" and releasing them after the dust had settled with the HM sets is just plain "Sneaky" :dodgy:
Does RAM really think that us collectors are completely stupid and that we wouldn't notice these :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='99480' dateline='1475659901'QuoteThe 9108 number was announced by the RAM on social media (Twitter and Facebook) on July 19th after the cut off for pre-order on June 13th.
Does RAM really think that us collectors are completely stupid and that we wouldn't notice these :angel:
With all due respect,
I don't think the RAM give two hoots what you, me, or anyone else thinks of their work.
QuoteWith all due respect,
I don't think the RAM give two hoots what you, me, or anyone else thinks of their work.
:agreed:
If they continue to pull stunts like this they will probably feel the effects when they start loosing collectors due to their actions.
The Sydney ANDA has the PNC's with matching numbers.
This is a different lot again.
http://moneyexpo.net.au/limited-edition-expo-releases-on-sale/
On Sale - Limited Edition Coins & Stamps
For the collector, there will be lots to buy at the ANDA Money Expo booth, right inside the main entrance.
•The Royal Australian Mint has created a special S (for Sydney) Privy Mark Dollar Coin. It's the fourth coin in the series of Privy Mark Dollar Coins and is struck to a limited mintage of 3000. A sell out is assured.
•The ANDA stand will also be selling four PNCs (postal numismatic covers) jointly produced by the Royal Australian Mint and Australia Post.
•The first three PNCs will be sold as a trio with MATCHED NUMBERS. The theme of the PNCs is the Queens 90th Birthday
•The fourth PNC commemorates the Battle of Long Tan.
Thanks Jen :good:
Pedro
QuoteThe ANDA stand will also be selling four PNCs (postal numismatic covers) jointly produced by the Royal Australian Mint and Australia Post. Three of the PNCs, celebrating the Queens' 90th birthday, will be sold as a trio with MATCHING NUMBERS. The limited mintage and the theme all but guarantees a sell-out.
What "Limited" mintage are they talking about, They have already told us that 9108 is the mintage BEFORE these other 9,000 came about ??
Unbloodybelievable
Nothing on my order yet but they did send me the regular "Mint Issue".
Priorities are rather skewed, to put it politely.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='99513' dateline='1475719166'Nothing on my order yet but they did send me the regular "Mint Issue".
Priorities are rather skewed, to put it politely.
Are you still waiting for the HM Birthday coins Jeff ??
The Melbourne ANDA had the PNC's for Holden and the mintage was 750 each day. I am thinking the Queens Birthday will be the same
Are these Show PNC's on top of the 9,000 regular PNC's that are on top of the limited to subscription 9108 sets ??
Quote from: 'trout' pid='99514' dateline='1475719551'Are you still waiting for the HM Birthday coins Jeff ??
Sorry, wrong thread. Should have been mint shop thread and I am awaiting changeover baggies.
With due respect to those members on this particular thread, the announcement on July 19th does not say that the mintage of each of the coins was 9108.
The actual wording is: "With orders closing on the Queen's Birthday holiday 13 June 2016, we can now announce that this coin set had a total mintage of 9108. Orders will be dispatched from 1 August 2016."
In other words there was 9108 orders for the 3 coin set.
That doesn't preclude the minting of additional coins for the APO PNCs.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
Quote from: 'notcb' pid='99524' dateline='1475737587'With due respect to those members on this particular thread, the announcement on July 19th does not say that the mintage of each of the coins was 9108.
The actual wording is: "With orders closing on the Queen's Birthday holiday 13 June 2016, we can now announce that this coin set had a total mintage of 9108. Orders will be dispatched from 1 August 2016."
In other words there was 9108 orders for the 3 coin set.
That doesn't preclude the minting of additional coins for the APO PNCs.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
Also with all due respect Ram also stated that these coins would ONLY be available with the pre order and the announcement of the 9108 was taken as the mintage for these coins.
RAM didn't say that if you don't want to pre order the coins they would be available as a PNC at a later date did they ??
Regardless of how you try to play with the wording, its just semantics.
The simple fact is that RAM has deceived us yet again :ok:
Trout,
I guess it all comes down to the interpretation of the word mintage.
Does mintage refer to the production of the individual coins as most have interpreted it, or does mintage refer to the production of the trio of coins mounted in the specific card?
The original announcement said:""The 2016 20c & 50c 90th Birthday Cu-Ni FrUnc Trio is a 'made-to-order' product of the Royal Australian Mint. The mintage of the 2016 20c & 50c 90th Birthday Cu-Ni FrUnc Trio will be closed by the Mint on June 13 2016, and the Mint will only begin dispatch of this product from August 1 2016."
Clearly the Mint's interpretation of the word mintage refers to the Trio production.
I have searched through all the original announcements, both in the RAM publications and associated dealer promotions and cannot find anywhere that it specifically stated that that was the only way of obtaining the individual coins.
It will be interesting if Bruce ever gets a response to his query of the RAM.
I see now that ANDA has purloined some of the APO PNCs and is selling them in numbered sets at the Sydney Expo.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
I don't think I will be getting a reply as I have made mistakes in the guts of the email and emailed the RAM to ignore my original email.
No worries Bruce - I guess it was buyer beware with this one.
I was just looking at the original press release on 21/04/16 see: http://www.ramint.gov.au/news-media/news/90th-birthday-her-majesty-queen
It certainly says:" The mintage for the set will be determined simply by the number of orders placed during this time." It always refers to the SET, not the individual coins.
I guess there will be a mad rush for the set of 3 numbered PNCs at the Sydney Expo - no doubt the usual profiteers will be there like with the Holden PNC's at Melbourne.
I am only really interested in the numbered 50cent PNC to add to my complete 50cent PNC collection from 1966 onwards.
Cheers for now
Peter (notcb)
QuoteIt always refers to the SET
The "Set" consists of 3 coins , Not friggin lollypops Coins are "Minted" NOT the packaging.
Cardboard is "Printed" NOT "Minted" The mintage figures from RAM include all the coins for that year including the mint sets etc. Why is the mintage figure for the HM Set coins all of a sudden treated differently.
RAM flat out lied and they will try and wriggle and worm their way out of it in much the same way you are proposing But at the end of the day they have been caught with their pants down and we Know it :ok:
Interestingly this is perth mint policy: http://www.perthmint.com.au/mintage_policy.aspx
" ii. UNLIMITED MINTAGE coins may also be sold on a MINT-TO-ORDER basis. This means that there is a specific time period during which the coin can be minted in unlimited quantities. Once that time period has expired, a mintage is declared, and no further coins may be minted."
Does the RAM have some kind of policy or definition?
RAM 21/04/2016
"This set will be offered as a made to order product, meaning the customers decide the mintage!"
More like the customers decided on the packaging not the mintage of these coins.
Quote"This set will be offered as a made to order product, meaning the customers decide the mintage!"
To Me that clearly states that the mintage for the 3 coins in the set will be capped to the amount of pre orders that are received.
I cannot read anywhere in that statement that there will be other coins minted for another promotion after the pre orders.
I am pretty certain that the 9108 figure was correct until RAM decided that these were a pretty popular coin set and the feedback was favourable so they decided to make some more of them.
Maybe if they had made a slightly different coin by adding a mintmark/counterstamp or some other design change it would be mildly acceptable.
what they have done by producing these "Extra" coins is deceitful and underhanded without any regard for ethics.
With this issue, the delays in shipping and the other shenagans that have been going on this year RAM is loosing its credibility for myself personally :(
Maybe they should start saying instead of mintage
"PRINTED & PACKAGED"
That way it could be then said, " A limited number of, 9,108 will be "PRINTED & PACKAGED" in this manner."
"With another 9,108, "PRINTED & PACKAGED" in a different manner."
LOL
Has anyone mentioned the PNC's and that they have been recalled due to a packaging error? As I mentioned in this article (http://www.australian-coins.com/collecting-coins/queen-elizabeth-ii-90th-birthday-pncs-machin-maklouf-and-rank-broadley-portrait/) the images on the envelopes didn't match the coins. Not that that has anything to do with mintages, just packyboxitis.
Makes you wonder how any of them manage to keep their jobs. It appears as though a trained monkey has a better chance of doing it right first time.
But I suppose, as the old saying goes, there's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over.
Looks like AP staff have caught the 'bug' from the RAM staff.
If RAM is allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour with the HM Birthday coins without any negative feedback or condemnation from the collecting community, What is there to stop them from screwing around with mintages of any further limited mintage issues ?? :dash1:
If the collecting community is quite happy to bend over and grab their ankles, Then RAM will most certainly take advantage of that in the future :angel:
I for one do NOT condone or accept for one second RAM's lying and cheating actions by producing these extra coins in conjunction with Aust post.
At $25 for a three coin carded set collectors paid a "Premium" for these coins because they were told that the pre order was the ONLY way to get these before the cut off date.
I find that RAM's actions in producing more of the same limited mintage coins for a different sales pitch to be deceitful dishonest and in very poor form.
There is a Poll on CCF about this :ok:
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=271111
For me buying these coins was a bit of fun not knowing what the "final" mintage would be. They have made a short term profit by minting more of these coins and repackaging them. This is a big mistake on the mints part... now there is no reason to believe any of their low mintage offerings wont be offered in more numbers in a different packet and when anything the Mint advertises in the future as limited mintage we can just remind the potential buyers the mint has a history of minting more coins and changing the packaging.
I think ill stick to noodling from here on.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='99651' dateline='1475975767'For me buying these coins was a bit of fun not knowing what the "final" mintage would be. They have made a short term profit by minting more of these coins and repackaging them. This is a big mistake on the mints part... now there is no reason to believe any of their low mintage offerings wont be offered in more numbers in a different packet and when anything the Mint advertises in the future as limited mintage we can just remind the potential buyers the mint has a history of minting more coins and changing the packaging.
I think ill stick to noodling from here on.
Yes this has left a nasty taste in my mouth as well.
I know RAM is inefficient and full of it but I didn't think that they would stoop this low just to make a few extra quid :dodgy::dash1::(
What i dont understand is why not make the Auspost version a bit different.. different finish even... hell i probably would of bought those as well.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='99654' dateline='1475980861'What i dont understand is why not make the Auspost version a bit different.. different finish even... hell i probably would of bought those as well.
Arrogance, Lazy ???
Im not sure.. i mean their prime objective is making money, that is fine of course, but they are going about this all wrong.
They have undermined arguably the most valuable selling point of a collectable coin, mintage.
To answer your question.. i think maybe its just a disconnect between the sales/marketing and the thoughts of collectors.
Looking past the Perth Mints excessive amount of grannybait... at least they have a transparent policy regarding mintage that explicitly states this wont happen.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='99643' dateline='1475966886'There is a Poll on CCF about this :ok:
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=271111
If I cut that from the CCF & paste it on the SYC forum, do you think it will be deleted, or I will be suspended?
Quote from: 'interest' pid='99661' dateline='1475984193'Quote from: 'trout' pid='99643' dateline='1475966886'There is a Poll on CCF about this :ok:
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=271111
If I cut that from the CCF & paste it on the SYC forum, do you think it will be deleted, or I will be suspended?
I would say Both Mate :laugh2:
I would say by now that someone from SYC would have seen it anyway :angel:
Has anyone asked about this on SYC or is everyone too frightened to ask ??:angel:
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='99606' dateline='1475903724'Has anyone mentioned the PNC's and that they have been recalled due to a packaging error? As I mentioned in this article (http://www.australian-coins.com/collecting-coins/queen-elizabeth-ii-90th-birthday-pncs-machin-maklouf-and-rank-broadley-portrait/) the images on the envelopes didn't match the coins. Not that that has anything to do with mintages, just packyboxitis.
thanks for a great article PP
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='99673' dateline='1476008093'Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='99606' dateline='1475903724'Has anyone mentioned the PNC's and that they have been recalled due to a packaging error? As I mentioned in this article (http://www.australian-coins.com/collecting-coins/queen-elizabeth-ii-90th-birthday-pncs-machin-maklouf-and-rank-broadley-portrait/) the images on the envelopes didn't match the coins. Not that that has anything to do with mintages, just packyboxitis.
thanks for a great article PP
RAM has probably outsourced the printing of the PNC's to China.
They recon that to the Chinese those White devils all look the same :laugh2::angel:
i'm a bit more confused
these limited mintage sets were only available though the SYC club? Or the legends program?
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='99676' dateline='1476009483'i'm a bit more confused
these limited mintage sets were only available though the SYC club? Or the legends program?
We are going back 5-6 Months here RG, I can't remember if it was a legends offer or if it was Open to all.
I got the "Heads Up" on this forum from Jen originally :good:
I have a feeling that the pre order offer was up on the RAM Shop site But I can't be certain about that.
To get 9108 orders I would imagine that a bigger audience than only the SYC members would have been needed :ok:
Available publicly on the ramshop.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='99678' dateline='1476010214'Available publicly on the ramshop.
Thanks Mate :good:
That poll I put up yesterday on CCF has had 259 hits and 23 people have voted.
1 voted that what RAM has done is ethical :swoon:
18 voted that it is unethical
And 4 have said that they don't care because they are just one of the Sheep :laugh2:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='99672' dateline='1476006487'Has anyone asked about this on SYC or is everyone too frightened to ask ??:angel:
I have,
I must admit that I used some of the comments here on this thread.
With some changes & without names of course.
but the question is there see what happens.
Quote from: 'interest' pid='99686' dateline='1476016399'Quote from: 'trout' pid='99672' dateline='1476006487'Has anyone asked about this on SYC or is everyone too frightened to ask ??:angel:
I have,
I must admit that I used some of the comments here on this thread.
With some changes & without names of course.
but the question is there see what happens.
Well done Mate :good:
i thought it was illegal to talk about the SYc here or else you get kicked out of the SYC and they know what you're doing as they come here and lurk
all too damn weird for my liking
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='99701' dateline='1476056319'i thought it was illegal to talk about the SYc here or else you get kicked out of the SYC and they know what you're doing as they come here and lurk
all too damn weird for my liking
That's the reason why I Quit SYC, I got a nasty email from Dion about posting SYC stuff on other sites.
Too "Secret Squirrelly" for my tastes and the "Lurking" is a pretty weak as piss thing to do just to spy on members activities on other forums :nea:
The Queens 90th Birthday thread on SYC has been closed so no more comments can be made.
Whenever the topic gets a bit too hot then Dion closes the thread.
Quote from: 'jens coins' pid='99711' dateline='1476066699'The Queens 90th Birthday thread on SYC has been closed so no more comments can be made.
Whenever the topic gets a bit too hot then Dion closes the thread.
I hear that He closed the thread with quite an amazing statement as well :angel::dodgy:
OOOOP's
Wrong thread :blush:
After a couple of personal emails to Dion, he categorically states that,
only 9,108 of each coin in the three coin set, and also included in the PNC's were minted.
He also finds it confusing as to why the AP put a figure of 9,000 on their PNC's.
So there you go, cannot get more definitive than that!
Case closed!
There are only 9,108 of each of those coins minted!
ok
so there is NOT 9,108 of the 3 coin sets
QuoteDated 2016, the three coins carry the Arnold Machin (1966-84), Raphael Maklouf (1985-98) and current Ian Rank-Broadley (1999-) portraits respectively, thus illustrating the Queen's development from youthful monarch to the matriarch of Great Britain. Strictly limited to an edition of 9,000, we have a tiny number of these official 90th birthday tributes in stock.
This is from Downies site.
So Who is telling "Porkies" here ????
Because someone most certainly IS :ok:
Quote from: 'interest' pid='99733' dateline='1476084906'After a couple of personal emails to Dion, he categorically states that,
only 9,108 of each coin in the three coin set, and also included in the PNC's were minted.
He also finds it confusing as to why the AP put a figure of 9,000 on their PNC's.
So there you go, cannot get more definitive than that!
Case closed!
There are only 9,108 of each of those coins minted!
Surely Dion would be in a position to be able to find out "Exactly" how many of these coins were supplied to Australia Post and as there is a perception that there are an extra 9,000 sets "Out There" it would be in RAM's best interest to clear this up definitively :ok:
It would also be useful to collectors to know the survival figures for the carded set if indeed the PNC's have a lesser mintage than 9,000 and that they did indeed come from the original mintage of 9108 sets .
I asked if he could advise me as to how many three coin sets had been sent out, he just reiterated, (quote) "The RAM has been very straight in stating the mintage as 9108, and that is what it is." (unquote)
Maybe the take up for this was very poor
Quote from: 'trout' pid='99755' dateline='1476099457'Quote from: 'interest' pid='99733' dateline='1476084906'After a couple of personal emails to Dion, he categorically states that,
only 9,108 of each coin in the three coin set, and also included in the PNC's were minted.
He also finds it confusing as to why the AP put a figure of 9,000 on their PNC's.
So there you go, cannot get more definitive than that!
Case closed!
There are only 9,108 of each of those coins minted!
Surely Dion would be in a position to be able to find out "Exactly" how many of these coins were supplied to Australia Post and as there is a perception that there are an extra 9,000 sets "Out There" it would be in RAM's best interest to clear this up definitively :ok:
It would also be useful to collectors to know the survival figures for the carded set if indeed the PNC's have a lesser mintage than 9,000 and that they did indeed come from the original mintage of 9108 sets .
QuoteMaybe the take up for this was very poor
There are hundreds of these available on eBay at the moment add that to what the collectors have ordered and you will come up with a figure that is far in excess of 108 and IF the 9,000 mintage for the PNC is correct then there is definitely some disparity in the 9108 mintage provided by RAM.
If RAM provided us breakdown of the collector/dealer pre orders and what was supplied to Aus Post then we could see who is telling "Porkies"
Because either RAM or Aus Post have got their numbers very wrong here :ok:
I doubt very much that either Aus Post or RAM will be forthcoming with this information So we will never know with any accuracy just how many of the carded sets are out there or the true numbers for the PNC issues of these coins :(
I have been speaking with a friend in Canberra today and his wife ordered 10 of the 90th Birthday 3 coin sets and yet to receive them. The RAM can't tell him when they are likely to receive them either.
Reading the sales pitches for the PNCs with these coins in them it definately looks like extra coins were minted to produce the PNCs.
I have just spent the best part of 1.5 hours on the phone with Austpost Phillatelic and they have confirmed that the number of PNC's issued for the QE11 90th Birthday is in total of 27,000. That is 9,000 PNC's for each coin. And according to the person I was talking to further states that the PNC's were NOT NUMBERED.
If anyone was able to secure a single, double or triple issue, can you confirm that the PNC's were not numbered. Further, can you confirm that the coins in the PNC(s) are the same as the three coins card set.
If that is the case, then with the figures given to us by Dion of the RAM, that leaves only 108 three coin carded sets for the rest of Australia of which I have two sets.
Someone is telling porkpies as far as I am concerned and for Dion to close further discussion is a little bit harsh.
I am going to draft two emails, one to the RAM and one to Austpost and see what I can get.
A check on ebay suggests that there are numbered and unnumbered. The ones from the Sydney Expo were numbered xxx/750.
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='100144' dateline='1476765491'The ones from the Sydney Expo were numbered xxx/750.
Was that for one coin PNC or for a three coin PNC or 250 PNC's for each separate coin.
Goldie,
As I wrote earlier the most likely scenario for the production / issue of these coins etc. is as follows:
(1) 9108 3 coin carded sets - a mintage of 9108 cards
(2) 9000 each of the three coins minted for Aust Post as a business transaction to produce 9000 of each of the PNCs unnumbered
(3) ANDA arranged with Aust Post to acquire 750 of each unnumbered PNC as a business transaction which they then had embossed with the ANDA Sydney Expo and numbered 1 to 750 and sold in a set of 3 identical numbered PNCs.
I suspect the information provided by one of the "experts" was wrong!
There seems to be a misunderstanding around the forums that the RAM, Aust Post and ANDA are all one entity in the production of these coins/PNCs when clearly they are 3 separate businesses which transact between each other.
As for the ethics, I seem to be the odd one out in seeing this as a completely ethical arrangement.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
The arrangement is ethical. The announcement of mintage is another thing I suspect.
Not exactly untrue (depending on the context) but certainly misleading because of what was not stated.
Jeff,
You are quite correct in that. If you go back through the all the publicity from the RAM both on their website (via Wayback Machine) and their Facebook page, at no stage did the RAM say that the only way to obtain the coins was via the 3 coin card issue.
What did happen, was that a number of commercial enterprises put their own slant on the mintage, by changing the wording slightly to give that impression. So in fact the ethical issue lies with the commercial sellers (as well as some less scrupulous Ebay sellers).
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
What was said was if you didn't pre order before the cut off date you wouldn't be able to get the set and the mintage would be determined by the number of pre orders.
And where exactly does this 009321 card fit into all of this?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/QUEEN-ELIZABETH-II-90TH-BIRTHDAY-2016-set-of-ultra-rare-pnc-COIN-SET-/222277904233?hash=item33c0cba769:g:d7gAAOSwPCVX7NIv
Whatever has happened regarding these 3 coins we have at the very least been deceived and at the worst lied to.
Whichever way RAM wants to "Spin" this they won't come out smelling like Roses.
I have just received my Aust Post Stamp Bulletin Nov/Dec and in it the 2016 Impressions collectable range has a PNC with all 3 coins in it. On sale from November 7 2016. So is this another lot of these coins in different packaging again.
The limited edition of this 3 coin set is starting to look pretty stupid now :dash1:
Jens Coins,
You mentioned a 3 coin PNC release for November 7th - I can't find mention of it anywhere on the Auspost website. Do you have any details?
Regards
Peter (notcb)
a copy of the flier
[attachment=3568]
Thanks - strangely it is still not on their website in the impressions area.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
Looks like we have 3 different incarnations of this 3 coin set so far.
Kind of makes the 9108 mintage figure from RAM seem more than a little bit far fetched.
QuoteAfter a couple of personal emails to Dion, he categorically states that,
only 9,108 of each coin in the three coin set, and also included in the PNC's were minted.
He also finds it confusing as to why the AP put a figure of 9,000 on their PNC's.
So there you go, cannot get more definitive than that!
Case closed!
There are only 9,108 of each of those coins minted!
There is NO way I can treat that with too much credibility now.
9108 x 3 coin set
9000 PNC's
Unknown number of the new 3 coin PNC.
:dodgy::dodgy::dodgy::dodgy::dodgy:
I Love the official PNCs
Quote from: 'trout' pid='100379' dateline='1477282492'Looks like we have 3 different incarnations of this 3 coin set so far.
Kind of makes the 9108 mintage figure from RAM seem more than a little bit far fetched.
QuoteAfter a couple of personal emails to Dion, he categorically states that,
only 9,108 of each coin in the three coin set, and also included in the PNC's were minted.
He also finds it confusing as to why the AP put a figure of 9,000 on their PNC's.
So there you go, cannot get more definitive than that!
Case closed!
There are only 9,108 of each of those coins minted!
There is NO way I can treat that with too much credibility now.
9108 x 3 coin set
9000 PNC's
Unknown number of the new 3 coin PNC.
:dodgy::dodgy::dodgy::dodgy::dodgy:
I too, can not place much credibility in that statement.
I received a set of the three PNC's today. They are exactly the same coins all out of 9,108.
There will be no questions answered!
Sydney ANDA PNC trio has different cover
The Australia Post Queens Birthday PNC has a mintage of 1926 and is $59.95
So that's
9108 for the 3 coin set
9000 for the single coin PNC's
1926 for the 3 coin PNC's
for a combined mintage of 20,034 :angel:
9108 My arse :dash1:
Quote from: 'jens coins' pid='100507' dateline='1477622594'The Australia Post Queens Birthday PNC has a mintage of 1926 and is $59.95
Going to be some disappointed collectors when they discover there are a lot more than 1926 of these coins.
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='100552' dateline='1477648786'Quote from: 'jens coins' pid='100507' dateline='1477622594'The Australia Post Queens Birthday PNC has a mintage of 1926 and is $59.95
Going to be some disappointed collectors when they discover there are a lot more than 1926 of these coins.
I think that there are already 9108 disappointed collectors already where these coins are concerned :angel:
AP is actually doing the collectors who bought the original pre order sets a favour with the various PNC's because of the high costs of the PNC's they are issuing.
This can only make the original sets more saleable :ok:
At least when we handed our money over the mintage was undetermined...for lack of a better description given everything that has happened since.
The misleading use of the term "mintage" is just so slimey... and now my $25 set of coins has more than doubled in price with the addition of another make believe limited mintage.
QuoteThe misleading use of the term "mintage" is just so slimey
I don't think RAM was "Misleading" at all, I think they simply told a bare faced lie about the Mintage hoping we wouldn't notice :angel:
You got the "Slimy" right Mate :dodgy:
I just received this reply from RAM, It looks like they are weaselling out of this by trying to say that the mintage for these only relates to the 3 coin set.
Nothing was mentioned to us about further minting of these coins when the pre order was announced, We were led to believe that the only way to acquire these coins was by pre ordering the 3 coin set.
QuoteThank you for contacting the Royal Australian Mint. I understand your enquiry relates to 2016 Frosted Uncirculated Three Coin Set.
Following the closure date on the made-to-order 2016 Frosted Uncirculated Three Coin Set – Her Majesty the Queen's 90th birthday it was announced that the mintage of the set was 9108. Please note, this number relates to the completed set not the individual coins.
It is understood that the wording of this communication may have caused confusion among our collectors and we apologise for this misunderstanding. We would like to clarify that 9108 of the 2016 Frosted Uncirculated Three Coin Sets – Her Majesty the Queen's 90th birthday were produced. In addition to this, an extra quantity was included in the Australia Post Philatelic Numismatic Cover (PNC) product and as a result Australia Post has now released three single coin PNCs. The sets and PNCs were produced in unison to celebrate the 90th birthday of Her Majesty and final mintages will be available in the 2015-16 Annual Report.
We apologise if this has caused confusion and have taken the necessary steps to prevent reoccurrence.
Should you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service Team on 1300 652 020 or via reply email.
Kind regards
Customer Service Team
Royal Australian Mint
Looks like I got the "Canned" answer in my email as the same wording is up on the RAM Shop site.
Lets hope this sort of thing doesn't happen again :ok:
The Sydney ANDA Trio PNCs had different cover than generic AP PNCs which is great
Quotefinal mintages will be available in the 2015-16 Annual Report.
Hmmmmm
Nope, not there that I can find.
Surely if they were minted at the end of June, the figures would be in the 2016-2017 Annual Report?
Looks like the customer service team member may need to brush up their understanding of Financial years.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
Quote from: 'notcb' pid='100768' dateline='1478036994'Surely if they were minted at the end of June, the figures would be in the 2016-2017 Annual Report?
Looks like the customer service team member may need to brush up their understanding of Financial years.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
With the amount of BS coming out of RAM of late it is hard to give credence to anything they have to say.
These coins were originally touted as being only available in the pre order 3 coin set.
NOTHING was said about the subsequent mintages for the PNC's.
RAM was fairly and squarely caught with their pants down and now they are using semantics to try and hide the lies they told us :dodgy:
Trout,
To be fair, the RAM never said that "these coins were originally touted as being only available in the pre order 3 coin set"
Here is the link to the RAM announcement made both on their web page and also their Facebook page:
" http://www.ramint.gov.au/news-media/news/90th-birthday-her-majesty-queen"
What I believe some readers have done is looked at the slant that certain retailers put on the announcement in their own publicity, changing the wording to give that impression.
For example, Downies put its own slant on the wording of the announcement by changing the word "set" to "trio", hence changing the meaning from a single product to individual coins.
Anyway, they are still nice coins - the question now remains, what will PCGS and NGC interpret the coins as - given the different frosting approach used?
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
QuoteThis set will be offered as a made to order product, meaning the customers decide the mintage!
What part of this is ambiguous ?? Notch??
It clearly states the mintage NOT the number of sets :ok:
And this line also
"The mintage for the set will be determined simply by the number of orders placed during this time."
Cannot see any ambiguity in that line either.
QuoteAnyway, they are still nice coins - the question now remains, what will PCGS and NGC interpret the coins as - given the different frosting approach used?
I am going to send a couple of sets to NGC as they seem to be able to attribute different coin types a lot better than PCGS.:yahoo:
I also won't have to worry about some idiot putting fingermarks all over my coins either :good:
These can be called sets or coins, it is irrelevant.
The Mintage for the coins/sets was to be set by the orders taken for the initial set.
The RAM then produced a further 9000 sets AFTER the 9108 mintage was determined.
Trout,
Yes, we are going around in circles as it all depends on one's interpretation of the word mintage.
But let me give you an example from as early as 1966 where the word mintage refers to an individual set, rather than individual coins - the 1966 mintage.
If one refers to Greg McDonald's book it clearly states:
Card (London) Mintage 31,810
Card (London) Mintage 67,250
Card (RAM) Mintage 10,000
and then the various wallets etc.
As well as the word mintage used to refer to the number of sets (Cards or wallets in these cases), we can then refer to the mintage of the individual coins which of course, were in the millions.
So the word mintage has always had two meanings (a) a set or (b) individual coins.
In all the RAM press releases it refers to meaning (a) the mintage of the set - at no stage does it say that other individual coins would not be produced and on sold to APO to be used in their products.
Anyway, it is all passed now. I hope that NGC really does something special with the categorising and grading of these coins - it seems that NGC is far more flexible than PCGS at the moment.
As someone who owns a Yarralumla 50cent specimen strike from 1969 in a PCGS holder, graded as PR64, I am tossing up whether to risk sending it to them to have it changed to an SP coin - others have recently got them to recognise the SP category, but I haven't heard of anyone having the grading actually changed.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
QuoteIn all the RAM press releases it refers to meaning (a) the mintage of the set - at no stage does it say that other individual coins would not be produced and on sold to APO to be used in their products.
No they didn't mention that they were going to mint more for Aus Post.
They did say;
QuoteThe mintage for the set will be determined simply by the number of orders placed during this time.
This set will be offered as a made to order product, meaning the customers decide the mintage!
Which implies that the total mintage for the coins was to be set from the number of pre orders.
At NO stage did ram notify anyone that these would not be the only coins minted and the way the announcement of the pre order was worded Implied that this was the ONLY way to get these coins.
RAM lied to us simple as that and the only reason they are trying to come clean now is because of the backlash over the Aus Post PNC's.
As far as I am concerned their weak attempt at an apology comes a little too late to be acceptable.
RAM had the opportunity to make this good before the PNC's hit the streets but they neglected to do so.
They simply got greedy and went for the double dip and got caught out.
Pretty poor form I would say :dodgy:
Where was it ever stated an apology from RAM ?
Quote from: 'notcb' pid='100861' dateline='1478084375'As someone who owns a Yarralumla 50cent specimen strike from 1969 in a PCGS holder, graded as PR64, I am tossing up whether to risk sending it to them to have it changed to an SP coin
Yarralumla PNC 50c coins were dull in appearance no way proof so PR64 is not a Yarralumla perhaps from Proof Set
QuoteWhere was it ever stated an apology from RAM ?
there is a half hearted attempt at an apology on the RAM Shop website.
QuoteYarralumla PNC 50c coins were dull in appearance no way proof so PR64 is not a Yarralumla perhaps from Proof Set
The Yarralumla coin is a Specimen strike Not a Proof strike and is deserved a SP designation :ok:
The Yarralumla coins are pretty "nasty" looking because of the way they have been stored in the PNC's.
I would imagine that they would have been a rather nice looking coin fresh from the press.
Looking on the bright side.
With all the outrage and disappointment this fiasco has caused and the fact that the "Networking" amongst collectors is now so good and RAM has finally realised this , I doubt very much that RAM will repeat this sort of behaviour :good:
The coins themselves are very very nice and I personally don't have a problem with having paid $25 per set.
What I do have a problem with is being lied to as it is my personal #1 pet hate :ok:
I would like to thank all the people that have posted here and elsewhere about this matter as I am certain that this has been the main reason we are able to keep the B______s honest.
Good work people :)
:wavemulticolor:
Hi Runway,
As Trout says, the Yarra coin became dull due to storage in the PNCs. Original coins were quite OK. If you look at the PCGS Proof population report, you will see that there is a category number 144217 in which there is a total population of 2, both at PR64.
The coins are clearly not proof coins but were classified that way - it is only recently that they have accepted the Yarra version as SP (category 569220)
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
There are 10 Yarralumla coins graded as SP on the PCGS pop report.
The highest grade achieved so far is SP66.
The 2 coins graded as Proofs are obviously wrongly attributed, which is not that unusual for PCGS :angel:
The highest grade for a standard strike coin is also MS66 :ok:
it annoys the hell out of me that PCGS will attribute the Yarralumla coin as SP and yet won't do the same for the Wedding set coins that are a more obvious Specimen strike :das1:
Looking back retrospectively I may have been a little "Harsh" on Dion Buck.
I am starting to think that he had NO idea or information about the subsequent mintage of these coins for the Aus Post PNC's and was just as much in the dark as the rest of us.
I could be wrong but from what I have heard he was left to bear the brunt for something over which he had NO control or information about.
crawler
just cause you know they keep tabs on us here ..... pity that it's not up front
Quotecrawler
Not in my vocabulary RG, Probably why I have been Divorced twice :angel:
Looking back he was absolutely positive that there were only 9108 in this mintage as far as he was aware at the time he posted on the Mint forum.
If he know anything about the subsequent Aus Post minting's he would have just kept quiet I would have thought.
Just thinking out loud here Mate, I could be absolutely wrong about this as well.:ok:
QuoteJust thinking out loud here Mate, I could be absolutely wrong about this as well.
Not the first time; not the last time!
The saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." may not actually apply here.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='100934' dateline='1478242516'QuoteJust thinking out loud here Mate, I could be absolutely wrong about this as well.
Not the first time; not the last time!
The saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." may not actually apply here.
Hmmmmm
Maybe So, But it did take Dion a very long time to come "Good" with the extra mintage information :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='100933' dateline='1478242126'Quotecrawler
Not in my vocabulary RG, Probably why I have been Divorced twice :angel:
Looking back he was absolutely positive that there were only 9108 in this mintage as far as he was aware at the time he posted on the Mint forum.
If he know anything about the subsequent Aus Post minting's he would have just kept quiet I would have thought.
Just thinking out loud here Mate, I could be absolutely wrong about this as well.:ok:
I think you are right about that, he was adamant that there were only 9108 minted & the PNC's came out of that quantity.
UNBLOODYBELIEVABLE :dash1::dash1::dash1:
Just how many of these coins have been minted is anyone's guess but it is way more that the Bullshit 9108 mintage we were given :dodgy:
https://shop.auspost.com.au/product/queen-elizabeth-ii-90th-birthday-three-coin-prestige-pnc-0314517
Now they are reinventing these to ride the effigy popularity. If the queen dies next week these will be remembrance coins in a new bit of cardboard.
With the amount of "Extras" of these minted it is pretty unbelievable that Dion was unaware of them.
As there are only a few people working at the mint I imagine that everyone knew about these PNC mintages and that we were simply flat out lied to with regards to the original 3 coin set we had to wait 3 months for :dodgy:
"Finish: Frosted uncirculated"
are the other sets sets frosted uncs?
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='101945' dateline='1480134259'"Finish: Frosted uncirculated"
are the other sets sets frosted uncs?
All the PNC's are exactly the same coins as in the original 3 coin set.
I will never buy into a pre order set from RAM again because I simply don't trust them anymore :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='100878' dateline='1478122214'The Yarralumla coin is a Specimen strike Not a Proof strike and is deserved a SP designation :ok:
The Yarralumla coins are pretty "nasty" looking because of the way they have been stored in the PNC's.
Storage might be a factor, but weren't these struck on unpolished blanks and hence the dull appearance?
QuoteStorage might be a factor, but weren't these struck on unpolished blanks and hence the dull appearance?
I was under the impression that they got the full SP treatment including special planchets But I could be Wrong (again :dash1:)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='101958' dateline='1480143071'QuoteStorage might be a factor, but weren't these struck on unpolished blanks and hence the dull appearance?
I was under the impression that they got the full SP treatment including special planchets But I could be Wrong (again :dash1:)
They did. They were specimen strike but on unpolished blanks.
http://www.australian-coins.com/blog/2010/03/the-yarralumla-pnc.html
http://www.cruzis-coins.com/Grading/1969Yarralumla.html
I'm surprised that RAM would do it for them.
I will be sending a 2007 Wedding set to NGC to be graded and I will add a couple of the HM Birthday sets to the submission, It will be interesting to see how NGC attributes these coins :)
Good luck with the gradings. :)
I have NO idea what to put on the submission form for these.
They are not Specimen or circulation strikes and they are not Proofs either, Maybe PL Proof Like might be close but they are a reverse proof ??
Maybe Reverse proof like But I don't think that NGC has that attribution.
Any suggestions ??
Why not just what the mint described them as, is that an option?
Quote from: 'LooseChange' pid='102529' dateline='1481343579'Why not just what the mint described them as, is that an option?
HMMM
Frosted is a descriptive term But Uncirculated is a grade, So "Frosted Uncirculated" is pretty much Gibberish as far as a TPG is concerned.
I don't know the ins-and-outs of submitting to a TPG... Do they give any weight to what the manufacture (mint) considers the coin to be?
QuoteFrosted Uncirculated
Using the same processes and technology behind uncirculated coins, these coins have the defining feature of a polished, more striking image against a frosted field (background). These coins often become highlights in an uncirculated coin collection, and are an effective way of expressing the passion that collectors have for particular themes or designs.
Source:https://www.ramint.gov.au/collector-coins
I'm just asking out of genuine curiosity.
The methods used to make these particular coins are quite different to what is usually produced not only by RAM but the US and the Canadian Mint as well.
I am not sure about the Royal Mint But I haven't seen anything quite the same as these produced by ANY other Mint.
Lets look at these coins a bit closer :ok:
obverse.
The devices and design on the coin is heavily frosted but the fields are not mirrored as a normal proof coin would be.
This gives the coin a heavy cameo look But the coin hasn't got the sharpness of strike or finish of a Proof or even Proof Like coin.
So frosted uncirculated makes sense for the obverse But the TPG's haven't got a prefix to describe this, The closest would be is MS CAM or MS DCAM and I haven't seen this used yet.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/hm_birthday_obverse.jpg)
Reverse
Here we have a coin with the fields and the devices (50) are lightly frosted and have a satiny appearance as opposed to the heavy frosting used on the obverse and the design is struck normally making the coin look like a reverse proof But the strike is Not of proof quality.
A TPG would most likely just call this MS.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/hm_birthday_reverse.jpg)
The interesting thing with these coins is that the obverse and the reverse are two very different finishes and because dies for these were specially treated just for this particular run of standard circulating designs they could also be seen as a Specimen strike.
I am interested to see what NGC makes of these unusual coins :)
"The interesting thing with these coins is that the obverse and the reverse are two very different finishes"
I totally forgot about this... good point. I look forward to seeing how you go with these at the TPG.
The different finish is the very reason I bothered to pre order these from RAM, Otherwise i wouldn't have bothered with them :ok:
I keep getting ads for this on Facebook
https://shop.auspost.com.au/product/queen-elizabeth-ii-90th-birthday-three-coin-prestige-pnc-0314517?ecid=LK20161116003
This PNC looks different again to the original PNC (purple in colour)??
The Prestige PNC combines all three effigies that were previously issued in 3 separate PNCs LC.
Pedro
Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='103240' dateline='1483164965'The Prestige PNC combines all three effigies that were previously issued in 3 separate PNCs LC.
Pedro
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Pretty much the same as the original issue of these coins But on a PNC instead of on Card.
So much for the RAM's play with words with the 9018 coins being for the sets only.
This entire mintage has a "nasty" smell to it :dash1:
Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='103240' dateline='1483164965'The Prestige PNC combines all three effigies that were previously issued in 3 separate PNCs LC.
Pedro
Ah I see. Thanks.
The PNCs were more expensive to buy as a set though