OK, after licking my wounds from my last failure to get PCGS to attribute and recognise the Wedding Set coins as either Proof Like or Specimen strikes I am ready to step into the breach again.
Regardless of the many emails and documentation I have sent them regarding the minting process that included polished blanks and extra pressure used when striking these coins I still failed in my last "sortie" to get these coins correctly attributed.
I know many of you think I am doing a Don Keota and am simply fighting Windmills with this , But I do feel strongly about this and will persist with my efforts regardless.
PCGS prides itself on grading a coin for what it is and just because the RAM didn't call the Wedding Sets a Specimen set is irrelevant.
Even Murphy's Dog can tell that there is a profound difference between a Mint set/Circulating coin and a coin from a Wedding Set so why can't PCGS grow some Balls and call them for what they really are ?
Any assistance with my Quest would be greatly appreciated.:yahoo:
If you can think of a valid reason why these coins should not be attributed for what they are , Say your piece in this thread :ok:
'Tis Don, 'tis good .......
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11067/don1.jpg)
I bet AJ will be Sancho! I can't decide whether to be the horse or the ass ........ probably the latter.
Jesus Mate, I nearly wet myself laughing at that post.
I am still laughing as I type this:wavemulticolor:
I wish I could help but slabbing and grading is way over my head.
Goodluck on your crusade.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84341' dateline='1454911257'Any assistance with my Quest would be greatly appreciated.:yahoo:
I don't collect these, but they sure are pure.
PCGS are obviously not listening, so from whom would they seek advice? If that was known some progress may be had. From recent communication with them, I know they reference one of our more prominent publications when it comes to varieties at least.
PCGS treat the specimen old wedding set coins as just another submission but they will grade high
Who should we direct questions to from PCGS for an enquiry about anything?
In the latest edition of Macdonald's on page 246 describes the Wedding Sets up to 2009 as being a "Specimen Finish" and lists the years from 2002-2009 under the heading of "Following coins are all Specimen Quality".
Also when you look at the PCGS population reports for these years you will notice that the grades are higher for these coins than most other years.
I have a spare copy of the 22nd edition of Macca's and am thinking of sending it along with a mint set and wedding set from the same year in their original packaging to David Hall at PCGS.
This way he can view the coins in hand and the difference in the finish for these coins will be blindingly obvious to him.
With the multitude of different coins from around the World that PCGS grades they are probably blissfully unaware that the wedding set coins are a different coin type than the circulating coins for the years 2002-2009, I am hopeful that I will be able to enlighten them.
I will include any documentation I can find that shows that these coins have a completely different finish to the circulation coins and that they are indeed Specimen coins .
Most Australian collectors consider that these coins are Specimens and it is about time that PCGS did as well and that they grade them accordingly .
If anyone has any documentation that can assist me in this endeavour it would be greatly appreciated :good:
The Yarralumla 50c coin has been attributed as a Specimen coin now.
Well done to whoever championed that change :yahoo:
http://www.pcgs.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=569220
trout,
You are like a terrier with a bone. Don't give up.
(http://dogs.y2u.co.uk/photo/Staffordshire_Bull_Terrier_Willow.jpg)
Quotetrout,
You are like a terrier with a bone. Don't give up.
Not a chance Mate, BTW that dog has weird eyes :angel:
I have just sent yet another email to PCGS regarding the wedding sets.
Here is the content of it, I will post their reply when I get it :ok:
QuoteHello There,
I have a few Wedding set coins that I intend to submit for grading and I would like them to be attributed as "Specimen" strikes rather than be given an MS grading.
I have attached the content of an email that I received from Dion Buck at the Royal Australian Mint and a scan of the relevant page from the latest edition of A pocked guide to Australian Coins and banknotes by Greg McDonald to support this.
If needed I can send you a 2002 Mint set and a 2002 wedding set in their original packaging so that you can see for yourself that the coins contained in the Wedding set are indeed a "Specimen Strike" and are totally different to the Circulating coin finish.
I have noticed that PCGS Now recognise that the Yarralumla 50 cent coin has is "Specimen" strike and would be most grateful if PCGS could look into attributing the wedding set coins appropriately as well .
I am looking forward to your reply in this matter.
Best regards
James Hudson
"Trout"
These are the attachments I sent.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/wedding_set.png)
QuoteHi Trout,
Our term for the wedding set finish up until 2009 (i think that was when it finished as gem and went to proof in 2010) was Gem Uncirculated. Other parties may refer to this finish as specimen, this term is subject to a little variance in meaning across the industry but is mostly approriate i guess, but I'll explain the nature of our term Gem Uncirculated.
The dies for these coins were polished to the same quality as proof dies, however no frosting was applied - to maintain the uncirculated appearance. The proof polishing process is extremely labour intensive, done by hand with tiny tools under binocular microscopes. The blanks used for Gem Uncirculated coins were proof blanks, of a higher quality than circ/unc blanks. The blank preparation process for proof coins was also followed, which uses a variety of techniques to purify, or clear the blank surface of defects (pickling, burnishing, heat treatment etc.). Finally the coins were struck as per proof coin process, on a proof press, hand loaded and inspected, struck four times precisely, and then encapsulated. These coins were absolutely unique, and while I never got around to asking all purchasers, I had a pretty strong inkling that more collectors bought this set, than wedding go-ers. Why are you getting this message? you partook in a thread that had some sort of technical fuzz out last year, and I have never been able to read it, or reply until now. I'll either delete or lock the thread but i wanted to share, as the Gem finish was one of my favourites!
Thanks, dion.
Try your luck with NGC? Then perhaps they might follow?
Trout,
Could it be that PCGS are reluctant to reclassify 2002 to 2009 as SP?
This would mean (potentially) 8 by 6 = 48 x total mintage, different coins to be reclassified.
It was different with the Yarralumla 50 cents as there was only a maximum of 2000 coins ever likely to require re-classification.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84363' dateline='1454970542'Quotetrout,
You are like a terrier with a bone. Don't give up.
Not a chance Mate, BTW that dog has weird eyes :angel:
I have just sent yet another email to PCGS regarding the wedding sets.
Here is the content of it, I will post their reply when I get it :ok:
QuoteHello There,
I have a few Wedding set coins that I intend to submit for grading and I would like them to be attributed as "Specimen" strikes rather than be given an MS grading.
I have attached the content of an email that I received from Dion Buck at the Royal Australian Mint and a scan of the relevant page from the latest edition of A pocked guide to Australian Coins and banknotes by Greg McDonald to support this.
If needed I can send you a 2002 Mint set and a 2002 wedding set in their original packaging so that you can see for yourself that the coins contained in the Wedding set are indeed a "Specimen Strike" and are totally different to the Circulating coin finish.
I have noticed that PCGS Now recognise that the Yarralumla 50 cent coin has is "Specimen" strike and would be most grateful if PCGS could look into attributing the wedding set coins appropriately as well .
I am looking forward to your reply in this matter.
Best regards
James Hudson
"Trout"
These are the attachments I sent.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/wedding_set.png)
QuoteHi Trout,
Our term for the wedding set finish up until 2009 (i think that was when it finished as gem and went to proof in 2010) was Gem Uncirculated. Other parties may refer to this finish as specimen, this term is subject to a little variance in meaning across the industry but is mostly approriate i guess, but I'll explain the nature of our term Gem Uncirculated.
The dies for these coins were polished to the same quality as proof dies, however no frosting was applied - to maintain the uncirculated appearance. The proof polishing process is extremely labour intensive, done by hand with tiny tools under binocular microscopes. The blanks used for Gem Uncirculated coins were proof blanks, of a higher quality than circ/unc blanks. The blank preparation process for proof coins was also followed, which uses a variety of techniques to purify, or clear the blank surface of defects (pickling, burnishing, heat treatment etc.). Finally the coins were struck as per proof coin process, on a proof press, hand loaded and inspected, struck four times precisely, and then encapsulated. These coins were absolutely unique, and while I never got around to asking all purchasers, I had a pretty strong inkling that more collectors bought this set, than wedding go-ers. Why are you getting this message? you partook in a thread that had some sort of technical fuzz out last year, and I have never been able to read it, or reply until now. I'll either delete or lock the thread but i wanted to share, as the Gem finish was one of my favourites!
Thanks, dion.
What's the email address you sent this to?
Quote from: 'notcb' pid='84368' dateline='1455007587'Trout,
Could it be that PCGS are reluctant to reclassify 2002 to 2009 as SP?
This would mean (potentially) 8 by 6 = 48 x total mintage, different coins to be reclassified.
It was different with the Yarralumla 50 cents as there was only a maximum of 2000 coins ever likely to require re-classification.
Cheers
Peter (notcb)
All PCGS have to do is create new coin identifying numbers to accommodate the SP graded coins and keep the existing numbers for the MS coins.
They do this on pretty much a daily basis as new or different coins come in for grading, So it really isn't that much of a big deal.
I doubt that PCGS would be concerned about being "overwhelmed" with a demand from collectors to re classify their coins because they know as well as we do that most collectors are simply too lazy to bother or the shipping expenses would deter most of them even if a free reconsideration was offered.
The Upside for PCGS is that may encourage new memberships by doing this, at the very least they will create an increased demand for their grading services from collectors that want their Wedding set coins graded accordingly.
As far as the set registry goes it should remain unaffected as I imagine both MS and SP coins would be acceptable for the various sets and Nothing would change.
I am Not trying to rewrite history here , I am simply trying to get a particular coin type to be recognised by PCGS and to be graded accordingly.
QuoteTry your luck with NGC? Then perhaps they might follow?
I have a membership with NGC but have only had about 40-50 coins graded by them.
As PCGS is my preferred TPG and I have had over 500 coins graded by them that is where my efforts will be targeted.
I have emailed a couple of prominent and well respected Australian Numismatist's and have asked them to send PCGS an email to support this request and I am hoping that this will help to sway PCGS's decision :angel:
Some of Australia's finest Numismatist's are members here and it would be of immense help if they could send PCGS an email supporting
this request as well :angel:
If this is done as a group effort it will have a far better chance of success than just one voice in the wilderness :ok:
well trout all you may need is a signature .... :angel:
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/5126/Ed-Harbuz/?utm_source=Marketo&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=NGC%20eNews%20February%202016&mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRonuK%2FNZKXonjHpfsX%2B6e0qWrHr08Yy0EZ5VunJEUWy2YcDTtQ%2FcOedCQkZHblFnVoOTK2%2BWroNoqcP
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84386' dateline='1455064457'QuoteTry your luck with NGC? Then perhaps they might follow?
I have a membership with NGC but have only had about 40-50 coins graded by them.
As PCGS is my preferred TPG and I have had over 500 coins graded by them that is where my efforts will be targeted.
I have emailed a couple of prominent and well respected Australian Numismatist's and have asked them to send PCGS an email to support this request and I am hoping that this will help to sway PCGS's decision :angel:
Some of Australia's finest Numismatist's are members here and it would be of immense help if they could send PCGS an email supporting
this request as well :angel:
If this is done as a group effort it will have a far better chance of success than just one voice in the wilderness :ok:
doubt it
I think the game plan is that you do the leg work and then others submit and reap the benefits of your dogged determination
I believe that the successful outcome with pcgs for the incused fifty cents might be an example of that determination on your part?
Quotedoubt it
I think the game plan is that you do the leg work and then others submit and reap the benefits of your dogged determination
I believe that the successful outcome with pcgs for the incused fifty cents might be an example of that determination on your part?
All is good Mate:ok:
Still No reply to my email to PCGS on this.
They are either ignoring me or they are considering my request and doing some research and are giving it some thought, Hopefully it is the latter :angel:
I will post their reply when I get it :ok:
I have specially selected the 48 coins from the eight wedding sets that were minted from 2002 to 2009 and are ready to submit as soon as they can get attributed correctly.
If they won't grade them as Specimens I won't send them and will just have to wait until they do. :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84475' dateline='1455314036'Still No reply to my email to PCGS on this.
They are either ignoring me or they are considering my request and doing some research and are giving it some thought, Hopefully it is the latter :angel:
I will post their reply when I get it :ok:
I have specially selected the 48 coins from the eight wedding sets that were minted from 2002 to 2009 and are ready to submit as soon as they can get attributed correctly.
If they won't grade them as Specimens I won't send them and will just have to wait until they do. :)
They probably have email rule to junk anything from your email address by now. :P
QuoteThey probably have email rule to junk anything from your email address by now
You may be right :laugh2:
But they did get over $15,000 worth of business from me just last year alone.
I am in no way one of their biggest customers but I am not one of their once in a blue moon type submitters either.
I am quietly confident that they won't treat my request as a "Crank call" and will give it some serious consideration. :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84477' dateline='1455316514'QuoteThey probably have email rule to junk anything from your email address by now
You may be right :laugh2:
But they did get over $15,000 worth of business from me just last year alone.
I am in no way one of their biggest customers but I am not one of their once in a blue moon type submitters either.
I am quietly confident that they won't treat my request as a "Crank call" and will give it some serious consideration. :)
$15k!
Question though... what happens to the wedding set coins already graded out there if they do change their mind?
QuoteQuestion though... what happens to the wedding set coins already graded out there if they do change their mind?
I imagine that they will be submitted for "reconsideration" if their owners want to have them correctly attributed .
This is what happened to the 2000 Incused 50c when PCGS finally started to recognise this variety :ok:
Given the tiny mintages of these coins compared to their Circulation strike brothers these coins will eventually become highly prized a few years down the track IMHO , Not unlike the pre decimal proofs are now.
As it stands now I am of the opinion that the vast majority of the coins from 2002-2009 (inclusive) graded at MS69 and the 3 coins graded MS70 are in fact Wedding set coins and are Not the standard circulation issue coins.
It will be interesting to see how many of these will be sent back to be correctly attributed IF They become recognised at PCGS as "SP"
RG sent me a PM with some pertinent information regarding these sets yesterday.
As I have made a commitment to Mark not to scatter my posts on this subject all over the site in different threads and RG is aware of that and is the reason she didn't give any details as to the strikes required for different coin types in the Ram open day 2016 thread.
When Robbie asked the operator in the Proof room about the number of strikes required for the different coin types she was informed that the Proof coins were struck 4 times the Gem Unc coins are struck twice and the Unc/circulating coins are only struck once.
She was informed that the Wedding set coins were struck twice ( I was told they were struck 4 times by Dion Buck) and was impressed that RG knew her stuff regarding these coins, Good on ya Gal :yahoo::dance2:
Another interesting piece of information she was able to garner is that the coins in the "In come the Dollars/Cents" sets are also struck twice in the same fashion as the wedding set coins and are considered as Gem Unc :good:
The coins in the "In come the Dollars/Cents" sets DO have the same highly reflective surfaces and the super strong strike that the Wedding set coins have, The only difference between this set and the wedding set coins is that the wedding set coins have perfectly smooth
fields and the 2016 coins have a slightly granular look to the fields.
This gives credence to the information I was given that specially treated proof blanks were used to produce the wedding set coins.
I have used this image elsewhere on the site but it is relevant to this particular post as it clearly shows the different types of fields that can be produced simply by using differently prepared blanks and the number of times the coin is struck :ok:
Mint set circulation strike coin
MS
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/08_20c.jpg)
In come the Dollars/Cents coin
BU
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/16_20c.jpg)
Wedding Set coin
SP
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/08_ws_20c.jpg)
Cameo Proof strike coin
PR
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/07_pr_20c.jpg)
I must say you are getting the info to know your stuff.
If one watched the proof collector coins being minted at the RAM one can count the number of times the press stamps the coin and I can confirm four poundings for the collector proof coins with the press operator wiping/cleaning the upper die after each coin has been pressed.
I am fascinated by the info on this topic.
Keep up the good work folks.
yea Goldie
they were doing that yesterday
they were in full production swing
and our proof operator was having some trouble with a die that was getting filled a touch and there was another staff member going over the coins that she was rejecting
for some reason I thought it was 6 strikes for the proof but the machine was finitely doing 4
I did ask the operator about the new $66 set as they look lovely to me
the intricacies of the planchet preparation are the finer details of the type of finish and we did go through the area where they prepare the palnchets
but I did get a tad confused with the steel ball annealing and then the acid baths before (?) annealing - which may be some of the difference as well
funny thing is the 50c planchet is much smaller the the coin itself & he explained that the minting expands the planchet out to the large size
Thanks for the photos and info. Must admit I am now tempted to get the $66 set. :)
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='84548' dateline='1455440331'Thanks for the photos and info. Must admit I am now tempted to get the $66 set. :)
You willnot regret buying it.
What, with a 2016 1c and 2c piece, it's a goldmine.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='84549' dateline='1455442549'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='84548' dateline='1455440331'Thanks for the photos and info. Must admit I am now tempted to get the $66 set. :)
You willnot regret buying it.
What, with a 2016 1c and 2c piece, it's a goldmine.
:Agreed:
With all the uproar about the 2 different carded Gold plated coins with a combined mintage of 21,966 people are forgetting about the 80% Silver coin that the "in come the Dollars/cents" contains with a mintage of only 10,000, the 1 and 2 cent coins are pretty much the icing on the cake.
I would suggest getting a set while they are still available at issue price as I think when they hit the secondary market they will be rather expensive.
The Gold plated coins are already selling on eBay for about $40 delivered :ok:
The $66 set is a pure rip off simply because of it's boxed packaging nature which should be in the normal folder
I submitted 3 already to PCGS easily MS 69 minimum
Post relocated to an appropriate thread by the author.
Still No reply to my email regarding this matter from PCGS. :dash1:
I have tried using the phone number listed on the PCGS site to speak to them but it didn't work.
Has anyone got the correct phone number I can use from my mobile ( we don't have a "Landline" connection) so that I can speak to them instead of just emailing them?
If you called the 800 number, it is a freecall number and available to locals (Americans) only. They have a number for those calling from outside the US, and it does indeed work.
Best to always go via local Australian PCGS dealers to help out with this
Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='84716' dateline='1455938959'If you called the 800 number, it is a freecall number and available to locals (Americans) only. They have a number for those calling from outside the US, and it does indeed work.
Can you PM me that number please Eric?
All is Good , I found it :good:
I will give them a bell Tuesday morning which will be Monday arvo in CA .
I get drakesterling to send my coins to PCGS and have never had a problem
Quote from: 'runway' pid='84764' dateline='1456059975'I get drakesterling to send my coins to PCGS and have never had a problem
This is Not about having a problem with PCGS, This is about getting the Wedding set coins the recognition that they deserve.
These coins are very different to the coins found in the Mint sets/Baby sets and the circulation issues and only a few thousand of them were Minted not Millions like the circ coins :ok:
These wedding set coins are not unlike the pre decimal proofs and were produced in much the same manner .
The only difference is I don't think polished Proof dies were used in the minting process so a Proof designation probably can't be used.
That leaves Proof Like "PL" or Specimen "SP' and as all the decimal proofs have a frosted finish that only leaves the SP .
The number provided on the Collectors universe page is +19495671234
I tried every number from 1-9 in place of the "+" but no luck getting through.
I have never made an international call from my mobile and I have NO idea what the "+" represents , Help me out here guys :)
949 is the area code and 567 1234 is the phone number for PCGS.
1 is the country code for USA. The + doesn't mean anything for what you dial.
To start an international call from Australia you need to dial 0011 first (0015 for faxes but that also works for voice calls too,)
"To call from Australia dial:0011 + Country Code + (Area Code + Telephone Number)" -from Telstra website.
PCGS website gives number for overseas callers as 949-833-0600.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='84792' dateline='1456190852'949 is the area code and 567 1234 is the phone number for PCGS.
1 is the country code for USA. The + doesn't mean anything for what you dial.
To start an international call from Australia you need to dial 0011 first (0015 for faxes but that also works for voice calls too,)
"To call from Australia dial:0011 + Country Code + (Area Code + Telephone Number)" -from Telstra website.
PCGS website gives number for overseas callers as 949-833-0600.
Thanks Jeff, That was a great help :good:
I made a call and got through successfully Unfortunately I was too late and the office was closed for the day But I will now be able to ring tomorrow :yahoo:
QuoteI was too late and the office was closed for the day
I just had the thought to add to my post to check the time for California (5:40 pm just now) before you call but....too late already.
QuoteI just had the thought to add to my post to check the time for California (5:40 pm just now) before you call but....too late already.
All is good Mate I have been trying to get these coins recognised for what they are for a couple of years now and another day to wait to actually talk to someone at PCGS about it isn't a drama :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84770' dateline='1456102483'Quote from: 'runway' pid='84764' dateline='1456059975'I get drakesterling to send my coins to PCGS and have never had a problem
This is Not about having a problem with PCGS, This is about getting the Wedding set coins the recognition that they deserve.
These coins are very different to the coins found in the Mint sets/Baby sets and the circulation issues and only a few thousand of them were Minted not Millions like the circ coins :ok:
These wedding set coins are not unlike the pre decimal proofs and were produced in much the same manner .
The only difference is I don't think polished Proof dies were used in the minting process so a Proof designation probably can't be used.
That leaves Proof Like "PL" or Specimen "SP' and as all the decimal proofs have a frosted finish that only leaves the SP .
I realise that trout , do you submit by yourself or use an Australian PCGS dealer to send on your behalf? Just wondering because if you use an Australian dealer maybe they can also ask ?
I just got an email with some Sage advice.
QuoteHi Jim,
You might want to try getting the wedding set coins slabbed as proof like instead of specimen. This is how PCGS handled the proofish Canadian mint sets. They appear to be struck using a similar process. Referring to the Canadian examples might be enough to convince them.
I have a 2008 Wedding set Bagged and tagged and ready to go.
I just have to come up with a convincing cover letter to send with the submission.
Any suggestions Guys ?
Well, like your correspondent said you need to connect/link the Wedding set coins with the "proofish" Canadian mint sets. Have you got the PCGS Numbers for the Canadian coins? You need to convince PCGS that the Canada coins have set a precedent for the Wedding set coins.
I will do my best But I really shouldn't have to do any convincing , Their own eyes should tell them that the wedding set coins are VERY different to the business strike coins :dash1:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='86363' dateline='1459272408'Their own eyes should tell them that the wedding set coins are VERY different to the business strike coins :dash1:
Maybe that's the problem, if it was up to the graders i.e. the ones with the eyes on the coins then they would need no convincing. Maybe its in the hands of some mouse clicking bureaucrat.
I have just sent (Yet another) email off to PCGS to see if they will at least attribute these coins as "Proof Like".
I did mention the Canadian coins and hopefully this will help.
I have also decided NOT to send any more of my Wedding set coins in to be graded until I get an assurance from them that they will be attributed differently to the "Run of the Mill" business strike coins from the 2002-2009 era.
I have spent quite a lot of money , time and effort trying to get this particular coin type attributed and am not prepared to submit any more of these coins until I get some sort of assurance that they will be differentiated from the standard issue coins. :ok:
I admire your persistence trout
As it stands at the moment Wedding Set coins will all get a high MS grade
However I really don't understand your obsession with this
QuoteHowever I really don't understand your obsession with this
Lets put it this way.
In 2008 there were nearly 133 million 20 cent coins minted for circulation and finding a coin better than MS67 is improbable from all these coins.
The yearly Mint set had the "Year of Planet Earth" 20c coin in it so that leaves the 46,504 2008 Baby Sets.
As the Baby set coins traditionally are of a better quality to the Mint sets a MS68 coin is possible.
In the same year there was a mere 3,278 Wedding Sets minted and finding a coin better than MS68 is NOT that difficult due to the way these coins were produced.
The Wedding Sets were sold at a premium because the coins were minted pretty much to the same standard an "Unfrosted Proof" would be minted and are a far superior coin.
In the past some Canny dealers realised this and had some graded thus achieving high grades for this issue.
The Problem is this artificially inflated the grades and values of these coins and at the same time devalued the hard sought circulation coins that had been previously graded.
I have NO doubts that in the future these Wedding set coins will be highly regarded But at the moment the only way to get one of these coins with any degree of certainty is to buy the Wedding Sets as there is no guarantee that the MS68 PCGS coin you are looking at is in fact a Wedding set coin.
Having PCGS attribute these coins differently to the Circulation issues will alleviate this problem for future collectors :ok:
All ex Wedding Sets and graded MS70:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/2008_Fifty_PCGS_MS70-80794637.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/2007_Fifty_PCGS_MS70-80794990.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/2006_Fifty_PCGS_MS70-80794960.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/2003_Twenty_PCGS_MS70-80795073.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/2003_Fifty_PCGS_MS70-80795104.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/2003_Dollar_PCGS_MS70-80795069.jpg)
Nice to see the 70 cracked with these at last , Especially nice to see them recognised as Wedding Set coins:yahoo:
I should point these are not mine, I saw them on Facebook. They all have cert numbers that begin with an 8 and are labelled as Wedding Set. The 2003 50c is singled out as Cu-Ni for some reason.
EDIT: One more thing, these are the actual PCGS images if you you up the cert. numbers for these coins.
Very nice Rob even if they're not yours :good:
Looks like all your hard work has finally paid off trout :friends: I'll have to get all my 13 sets done one day, when I win lotto :(
I think "Well done Trout!!" is appropriate!
It wasnt exactly what i was after but at least they are getting atributed for what they are.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90211' dateline='1465332632'They all have cert numbers that begin with an 8 and are labelled as Wedding Set.
What's the significance of this?
Previously PCGS graded these specimens with no recognition of Wedding Set. Nice
Thanks to using a proxy server , it looks like the "Wedding Set" is only a "pedigree" and NOT a new attribution as the coin number is the same as all the other coins graded :(
Ohhh proxy server, sorry I thought you said poxy :mocking:
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='90287' dateline='1465472778'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90211' dateline='1465332632'They all have cert numbers that begin with an 8 and are labelled as Wedding Set.
What's the significance of this?
I'm not sure, there may be none. Most coins currently being graded have cert numbers beginning with a 3. For some reason PCGS makes the distinction.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90300' dateline='1465501674'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='90287' dateline='1465472778'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90211' dateline='1465332632'They all have cert numbers that begin with an 8 and are labelled as Wedding Set.
What's the significance of this?
I'm not sure, there may be none. Most coins currently being graded have cert numbers beginning with a 3. For some reason PCGS makes the distinction.
Probably some internal number allocation thing. May be it was graded in one of their offices outside of US. Just guessing.
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='90332' dateline='1465531454'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90300' dateline='1465501674'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='90287' dateline='1465472778'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90211' dateline='1465332632'They all have cert numbers that begin with an 8 and are labelled as Wedding Set.
What's the significance of this?
I'm not sure, there may be none. Most coins currently being graded have cert numbers beginning with a 3. For some reason PCGS makes the distinction.
Probably some internal number allocation thing. May be it was graded in one of their offices outside of US. Just guessing.
The theory was that coins graded in Hong Kong started with the auspicious 8, but this no longer seems to be the case, as my submissions from the US are coming back with 8 cert numbers as well.
My latest submission to be graded came back with 80 at the start of the cert# as well.
Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='90792' dateline='1466034390'The theory was that coins graded in Hong Kong started with the auspicious 8
With 10 million auspicious number 8s available there are plenty to go around.
Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='90792' dateline='1466034390'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='90332' dateline='1465531454'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90300' dateline='1465501674'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='90287' dateline='1465472778'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='90211' dateline='1465332632'They all have cert numbers that begin with an 8 and are labelled as Wedding Set.
What's the significance of this?
I'm not sure, there may be none. Most coins currently being graded have cert numbers beginning with a 3. For some reason PCGS makes the distinction.
Probably some internal number allocation thing. May be it was graded in one of their offices outside of US. Just guessing.
The theory was that coins graded in Hong Kong started with the auspicious 8, but this no longer seems to be the case, as my submissions from the US are coming back with 8 cert numbers as well.
Thanks for clarification :wavemulticolor:
I am not sure if I want to continue to bash my head against the wall trying to have PCGS attribute these coins for what they are.
As these wedding set coins were minted on Proof presses using specially prepared Proof blanks and struck multiple times with an unfrosted die, same as a proof coin would have been then even a novice collector would assume that these coins would have a different finish to any other coin minted that particular year.
Why PCGS still continues NOT to acknowledge and attribute these particular coins differently to the Mint set/Circulation coins is a mystery to me as I am quite certain that their graders would be able to tell the difference in a heartbeat.
RAM called these a Gem Uncirculated finish, WTF Gem Uncirculated is a Grade NOT a coin type/finish for goodness sake :dash1:
Maybe this is the reason why I don't know, But just because a Mint comes up with some fanciful name for a coin type doesn't automatically preclude it from being attributed correctly by a TPG.
I now have a few extra sets of these coins and I am going to try one Last time to have PCGS attribute them as either Specimen (SP) or Proof Like (PL), giving them a "Pedigree" of Wedding Set and still grading them as Mint State (MS) really doesn't "Cut the Mustard" as far as I am concerned.
If this next submission turns out to be another failure I will turn my attention to NGC and maybe they will use some Common Sense attributing these Wedding Set coins .
How does PGCG identify frosted uncirculated trout ?
As usual, good luck with your quest, trout you are nothing if not indefatigable.
MS68 - is this coin ex Wedding Set?
http://www.pcgs.com/cert/32985283
(http://images.pcgs.com/TrueView/32985283_Large.jpg)
Another MS68, currently on FB for $1. I think its ex Wedding Set although the PCGS image is an old dodgy one.
http://www.pcgs.com/cert/26046014
(http://images.pcgs.com/SecurePlus/26046014_Large.jpg)
I can't be certain on the top coin but the bottom one is definitely a Wedding set coin .
Yes the bottom one looks like my pic's where it reflects all the light back into the lens, I either get a black or white dot as they're very had to photograph that's for sure.
I have just emailed NGC asking how they would attribute these Wedding set coins if I sent them in to be graded.
It will be interesting to see what their reply will be :ok:
I am interested to hear what they say.
:i_agree:
yep they are specimens
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='92489' dateline='1468398722'I am interested to hear what they say.
This should answer your question :)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2007_20c_SP70.jpg)