Is the statement "DUE TO THE CHEMICAL SEAPAGE OF THE HOLOGRAM $1 IN 2004 COME ALIVE 6 COIN PROOF SETS MANY OF THE 67,795 20 CENT PROOF COINS HAVE BEEN RUINED WITH TONING" a fact?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USTRALIA-2004-20-CENT-PR-69-DCAM-PCGS-SMALL-HEAD-FLAT-A-POP-1-HIGHEST-GRADE/111820461484?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140117125611%26meid%3De3ecc848ba874ccf84ca0ae6bef4198d%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151896858034
AUSTRALIA
2004 20 CENTS PROOF DUCKBILL PLATYPUS
PR 69 PCGS DEEP CAMEO
SMALL HEAD FLAT *A*
SLABBED
HIGHEST GRADE
The only way to get a good proof is from one of the 16,000 Koala Baby Proof sets or a Come Alive Hologram proof set that has not toned.
COIN INFORMATION
Cert Verification #: 29961462
PCGS Coin #: 517300
Date, mintmark: 2004
Denomination: 20C
Variety: Small Head
Country: Australia
Grade: PR69DC
Holder Type: PCGS Secure™
Population: 1
I have just this moment checked my 2004 Proof Set and all is as good as gold. No tarnishing, nothing.
Maybe that is a statement made to scare people to pay for the high price of his/her coin that one has up on EBay.
I checked mine too Goldseeker and it's perfect too
No doubt the seller is trying the scare tactic
I have had a few "Run In's" with this particular eBay identity and I am certain many other members have as well. :angel:
There are in fact 3 of these coins graded by PCGS at PR69 and 1 other graded at PR70, So it is NOT the single finest at all.
The $1 coin in the 2004 proof set was prone to the hologram looking a bit weird But the other coins in the sets are generally unaffected :ok:
The Small head variety in MS69 would indeed be a "condition rarity" and would command a "premium" But this is the proof coin and $80-$100 would be a more accurate estimate of its value Not $999 :ok:
Seller has some APCGS slabs you may be interested in ?
I recently rechecked all my four proof 2004 sets and all of them show some form of toning in four concentric circles on the obverse.
Maybe this discolouration is caused by the reverse being a painted/coloured coin.
I wonder if one could claim compensation from the RAM because of it as I paid a fortune for the four sets.
I got the four sets because of the mix of flat and pointed "A's" combinations.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='82990' dateline='1450671326'I recently rechecked all my four proof 2004 sets and all of them show some form of toning in four concentric circles on the obverse.
Maybe this discolouration is caused by the reverse being a painted/coloured coin.
I wonder if one could claim compensation from the RAM because of it as I paid a fortune for the four sets.
I got the four sets because of the mix of flat and pointed "A's" combinations.
This is pretty normal with the 2004 proof sets for the Dollar coin to have that problem on the obverse .
It is probably due to the hologram treatment on the reverse.
I doubt very much that RAM will come good with a return :dash1:
Thanks for your comment trout but there's only one way to find out if the RAM will come good.
I would be interested in how many members of this forum have the same problem.
I sent thee RAM an email re the 2004 $1 discolouration of the Obverse and this is the reply I have just received:
Good afternoon Mr Mansfield,
Apologies for the delay in reply to your email from 21st December 2015.
I have read your email and appreciate your position. If possible can I ask that you supply a photo of the discoloured coins? This will help us determine the best course of action and possible solution for your disappointment.
Kind regards,
I have responded with four full face scans of the sets as well as a closeup of each of the four dollar coins Obverses.
I will post any further responses I get from the RAM.
I have informed the RAM that I know of other collectors with the same problem. So maybe an email to the RAM may just get us all a good result.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='83090' dateline='1450855911'I sent thee RAM an email re the 2004 $1 discolouration of the Obverse and this is the reply I have just received:
Good afternoon Mr Mansfield,
Apologies for the delay in reply to your email from 21st December 2015.
I have read your email and appreciate your position. If possible can I ask that you supply a photo of the discoloured coins? This will help us determine the best course of action and possible solution for your disappointment.
Kind regards,
I have responded with four full face scans of the sets as well as a closeup of each of the four dollar coins Obverses.
I will post any further responses I get from the RAM.
I have informed the RAM that I know of other collectors with the same problem. So maybe an email to the RAM may just get us all a good result.
I have 13 sets because I included large and small "SD" on the 20 cent coins in the permutations. They all have this problem, to varying degrees, on the $1 obverse. I look forward to the RAM's further reply.
I have a couple of discolored sets. Can provide pics if needed
I will give it a couple more days or so till I chase the RAM for a response to my email and coin scans.
\Will post here when I do.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='83632' dateline='1452839376'I will give it a couple more days or so till I chase the RAM for a response to my email and coin scans.
\Will post here when I do.
Good luck with a response that makes sense :yahoo:
I received the following reply from the RAM this day.
QUOTE
Yes, thank you for the pictures, they clearly illustrate the issue you speak of.
As an avid collector you would be aware that after coins leave the Mint we have no control over their handling or storage, and it is therefore very difficult to determine exactly why this discolouration has occurred. The coins are now 12 years old, and consequently due to these factors the Royal Australian Mint cannot accept liability for this issue.
However, as a highly valued customer who is known to the Royal Australian Mint as an ambassador for numismatics, we want to provide a possible solution for you. Unfortunately we cannot replace the affected coins as the coins are no longer available but the Royal Australian Mint would like to offer you something to hopefully offset the disappointment you have. We would like to offer you a $50 Royal Australian Mint Voucher for each of the 4 sets you own.
One question: is it possible to provide your RAM proof of purchase? The reason I ask is because I cannot find a record of sale in our system.
I am currently away from the office but our Head of Retail, Helen Burgess is attached to this email so she can answer any questions you may have in my absence.
Warm regards,
Andrew Eames
Andrew Eames
Sales Manager
Royal Australian Mint
Email: andrew.eames@ramint.gov.au
Denison Street, Deakin ACT 2600
UNQUOTE
May I suggest that anyone at all who has the discolouration of the $1 coin please scan your coins and a closeup of the $1 and forward the scans to the RAM as I have done.
I can't supply records of purchase from the RAM because I bought the Sets from Downies and Peter Strict and didn't keep the receipts.
It would be great to se how many more collectors are having the same problem.
I have 4 sets discolored
All from different sources
Quote from: 'serial' pid='84123' dateline='1454307754'I have 4 sets discolored
All from different sources
Will you send scans etc to the RAM?
Oh dear I think the mint will be inundated with $50 swaps from members here! Goodness who keeps receipts from so long ago.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='84126' dateline='1454321412'Quote from: 'serial' pid='84123' dateline='1454307754'I have 4 sets discolored
All from different sources
Will you send scans etc to the RAM?
Yes, just short on time ATM. Will try to get pics before the baby is born
I am in comms with a couple in New Zealand and they have the same problem in their sets.
I had a closer look at my sets today and two of the sets, the 5c piece is taking some discoloration as well.
Seems like the 2004 proof sets are a whipeout.
This has been a Known problem with these sets for years now, Why all the complaints Now?
I would imagine that under the statutes of limitations RAM are probably under NO obligation to refund anyone for these.:angel:
There were 50,000 of these sets minted and if only 10% are returned then the Mint will be up for $250,000, I doubt they will want to wear that bill.
Another reason why the coins in the 2004 sets tone up is that with most of them the plastic case is poorly sealed.
They may have had a problem with the sealing unit or the operator didn't do his job properly.
I have 4 sets of these and this is the best of the $1 coins, also the other coins have started to get them milky areas in the fields on them.
I just wish that I had cracked these out when I got them, they would probably have survived to be far better coins than they are now.
It is obviously a fault of RAM that the majority of these coins are now flawed But it is far too late to have anything done about it and getting a replacement set is quite out of the question.
We will just have to put up with what we have unfortunately.
The only other alternative is to not have them at all.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2004__1.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2004_20c.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2004_50c~0.jpg)
I sent the $1 proof to PCGS and happy with the grade PR65DCAM Holographic Kangaroos
Bringing up an old topic here guys, but I was just looking at my uncles two 2004 proof sets and they have discolouration of several coins. Does this affect the value and also should I do anything about it?
Quote from: 'Noelos237' pid='102240' dateline='1480749557'Bringing up an old topic here guys, but I was just looking at my uncles two 2004 proof sets and they have discolouration of several coins. Does this affect the value and also should I do anything about it?
Yes obviously :idea:
Quote from: 'Noelos237' pid='102240' dateline='1480749557'Bringing up an old topic here guys, but I was just looking at my uncles two 2004 proof sets and they have discolouration of several coins. Does this affect the value and also should I do anything about it?
Yes it does affect the values of the coins.
Leaving the sets intact will only increase the damage already done But even if you break the coins out of the sets there is nothing that can be done to repair the coins.
I think that whatever process was used to manufacture the holographic $1 coin it looks like it has outgassed and affected not only the $1 coin but the other coins in the sets.
It is odd though that the amount of damage varies between individual sets and strangely/luckily some sets are not affected at all.
So would you recommend removing the coins from the set to prevent further damage?
Quote from: 'Noelos237' pid='102276' dateline='1480804308'So would you recommend removing the coins from the set to prevent further damage?
Personally I would remove them But I remove just about everything from the Mint wrapping so that I can put them in 2x2's and add them to my various albums, It all depends on how you prefer to collect.
Many collectors leave everything in the original packaging regardless of if it is detrimental to the coins, The $1 carded coins that are just sitting in an open ended pouch nearly always get toned up or environmentally damaged.
Removing coins from the Mint packaging will usually result in loosing some resell value, However I buy coins to collect not to resell so that really doesn't bother Me that much.
As the coins your sets are already damaged the resale value has been affected anyway and by removing the coins and putting them in 2x2's or saflips it will stop any further damage I can't see a problem.
Like I Said it's entirely up to you and the way that you like to have your collection organized :ok:
Alright thanks mate
Quote from: 'Noelos237' pid='102276' dateline='1480804308'So would you recommend removing the coins from the set to prevent further damage?
Absolutely! Put some cotton gloves on & remove them ASAP. Store the coins in either Flips or 2x2's.
By all means keep the packaging if you think the coins are ever going to be sold, but don't put the coins back in it.