I have received some 2016 Mint sets the design is nice but the quality once again is sadly lacking, I imagine the Proof set will be stunning with this design and in far better quality (I hope) :good:
I will post images shortly :ok:
OK images taken and cropped.
These looked pretty ordinary to me with my eyes But under the camera they look downright awful.
For RAM to Charge more than 5x face for a set they should at least ensure the quality is there.:dodgy:
These have to be one of the worst quality mint sets I have ever seen.
For what it is worth , Here they are .
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/15_2dollar.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/15_dollar.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/15_50c.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/15_20c.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/15_10c.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/15_5c.jpg)
Nothing wrong with quality of coins in my mint set but you'd expect near specimen in mint sets
A significant number of the 2016 mint sets sold so far on Ebay have been sold at a discount to the $25 retail price (even allowing for postage). Quite a few with prices in the $23.50 - $24.50 range.
Haven't noticed anything like that happening in the last 6 years.
Pedro
Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='81665' dateline='1447911469'A significant number of the 2016 mint sets sold so far on Ebay have been sold at a discount to the $25 retail price (even allowing for postage). Quite a few with prices in the $23.50 - $24.50 range.
Haven't noticed anything like that happening in the last 6 years.
Pedro
Maybe collectors are getting "Jaded" with the shoddy quality of the Mint sets over the last few years ??
Pedro I can explain why ....
eBay members who sell the 2016 mint sets below rrp with free postage are mostly dealers who receive sets at wholesale price
Pre-Orders were accepted by RAM also for certain people who committed to buy bulk of these and proof sets
It's all about turnover not necessarily huge profit
The Proof set of these coins are superbly made and are rather easy on the eye.
You would think that these were made at a totally different Mint to where the standard coins were made :angel:
The 50 cent and Dollar coins look superb :good:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/16_5c_pr.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/16_10c_pr.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/16_20c_pr.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/16_50c_pr.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/16_dollar_pr.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/16_2dollar_pr.jpg)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='81785' dateline='1448288511'The Proof set of these coins are superbly made and are rather easy on the eye.
Shame that they're not 'real' coins though. Just another bit of granny bait.
QuoteShame that they're not 'real' coins though. Just another bit of granny bait.
Maybe so , But they are a different calibre to the bashed and brutalised coins the RAM "Traveling Circus" churns out with their counterstamps :angel:
I quite like the Decimal Proofs it's just a shame that they are not produced without the "Frosting", Now that would be nice :good:
This is why I like the Proof coins, Which coin would you prefer???
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/000.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/001.jpg)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='81794' dateline='1448327223'This is why I like the Proof coins, Which coin would you prefer???
That's a loaded question.
Which object would I prefer? The proofs, no doubt.
Which coins would I prefer? Well, since the proofs aren't coins, there is no choice to be made unfortunately.
What is a coin anyway? If I go out to the shed and make a round flat object with all the appearances of a coin, that doesn't make it a coin, does it?
The RAM have effectively done exactly that. They just have a much bigger shed, and better technology, and they are able to claim authority so they're not counterfeiting.
But they're still not coins unless they circulate, which proofs never do, and are not intended to anyway. That makes them souvenirs, trinkets, granny-bait, whatever you want to call something that comes out of the Franklin Mint or similar.
QuoteBut they're still not coins unless they circulate, which proofs never do, and are not intended to anyway. That makes them souvenirs, trinkets, granny-bait, whatever you want to call something that comes out of the Franklin Mint or similar.
I imagine that the pre decimal Proof coins were treated with the same distain by some collectors, including the Canberra and Melbourne florins.
None of these are now sneered at , in fact they are now treated as highly prized and desirable coins :angel:
Each to their own way of collecting But the Decimal coins in both Business strike and Proof strike are one part of the numismatic market that is growing and preforming well at the moment. :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='81812' dateline='1448389096'I imagine that the pre decimal Proof coins were treated with the same distain by some collectors
No... Pre-decimal proofs WERE proper coins, produced from the same dies, and the only differences were in the quality of the planchets and care taken in striking them.
Not even close to the situation nowadays. They've been blinded by greed and totally lost the plot. :(
Specimens are more like proper proofs. Pity they stopped making them. :dodgy:
I will bite Fulvio. If a "coin" complies with the currency determination and is legal tender for face value it is a real coin in my opinion.
I have some frosted coins I have found in circulation so they do fulfill the function of a coin.
That said, I do prefer specimens to "proofs".
I won't be buying any 2016 sets but look forward to seeing what turns up in circulation. Let's hope we don't have another farcical feeding frenzy next year. (Kelly O'Dwyer has a lot to answer for with this year's debacle.)
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='81825' dateline='1448422240'...found in circulation so they do fulfill the function of a coin.
Yep, once circulated, they definitely become 'real' coins in my book. I'm quite pleased with my circulated NCLT, especially the VC.
Otherwise, they're just trinkets, even though they are legal tender. Heck, the mint even says as much in their design guide.
I was under the impression that these coins are not going to be circulating coins? Is that still the case?
Quote from: 'Cougar' pid='81833' dateline='1448438231'Is that still the case?
If it is the case, it will prove definitively that the RAM has become nothing but a souvenir factory.
The whole point of mint sets is supposed to be to have pristine examples of circulating coins, not to manufacture yet another Retail Spending Opportunity for all the hapless victims.
Quote from: 'Cougar' pid='81833' dateline='1448438231'I was under the impression that these coins are not going to be circulating coins? Is that still the case?
What gave you that impression? I haven't anything to confirm it one way or the other.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='81838' dateline='1448444740'Quote from: 'Cougar' pid='81833' dateline='1448438231'I was under the impression that these coins are not going to be circulating coins? Is that still the case?
What gave you that impression? I haven't anything to confirm it one way or the other.
The mintage for the sets says 100,000, I thought that would have been the numbers produced?
Also when I ordered the set, the helpful assistant at the other end of the line indicated that they were a mint set coin only.
Who really knows what they might decide?
Personally though, I would have liked to see an 8 coin set including the 1 and 2 cent coins also.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='81834' dateline='1448438590'Quote from: 'Cougar' pid='81833' dateline='1448438231'Is that still the case?
If it is the case, it will prove definitively that the RAM has become nothing but a souvenir factory.
The whole point of mint sets is supposed to be to have pristine examples of circulating coins, not to manufacture yet another Retail Spending Opportunity for all the hapless victims.
Unfortunately we already have several examples of coins from mint sets not making it to circulation. As described in another thread. The 2015 50c coin and the 2007, 2008 and 2009 20c coins also.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='81812' dateline='1448389096'I imagine that the pre decimal Proof coins were treated with the same distain by some collectors, including the Canberra and Melbourne florins.
I doubt it - weren't the 1934/1935 commemorative florin proofs produced by request by coin dealers?
Quote from: 'Cougar' pid='81840' dateline='1448446501'The mintage for the sets says 100,000, I thought that would have been the numbers produced?
Also when I ordered the set, the helpful assistant at the other end of the line indicated that they were a mint set coin only.
Who really knows what they might decide?
Oh okay - that seems pretty conclusive then.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='81841' dateline='1448448055'Oh okay - that seems pretty conclusive then.
I am not sure that anything is conclusive, especially with the RAM
Quote from: 'Cougar' pid='81840' dateline='1448446501'Unfortunately we already have several examples of coins from mint sets not making it to circulation.
Individual coins, yes.
But to not have high-grade strikes of the circulating coins at all would be a low point, even for the mint. :(
QuoteBut to not have high-grade strikes of the circulating coins at all would be a low point, even for the mint
Prior to 2010 it was possible to get very high grade coins from mint sets in grades up to MS69.
If you look at the population reports on PCGS you will see that most circulating coins in all denominations as far back as 1988 have at least 1 MS69 coin in there.
From 2010 until now the coins in the Mint sets have been sub standard to the sets prior.
I know these coins are not produced at "Specimen" standards But they should at least be given special treatment as far as the way they are handled so as to reduce the amount of damage on the coin post stamping .
A reinstatement of the Wedding sets in their original format would be the only way to obtain a NON frosted high quality circulating design specimen the way the Mint sets are being produced lately.
Just my take on things and "Grannybait" or not if you are going to charge 5-6x face for a coin it should be a superior example to what you would find in your pocket change :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='81847' dateline='1448475751'Just my take on things and "Grannybait" or not if you are going to charge 5-6x face for a coin it should be a superior example to what you would find in your pocket change :ok:
:agreed:
Absolutely! I think they've lost the plot, and I told Ross as much. But I don't expect things to improve, as they are now focussed exclusively on profit, not on pleasing us. We are just a herd of cattle to them, to be milked for every penny they can get. Hence the distinction between the circulating and collector markets.
They don't understand or care about collectors who want circulating coins in decent condition, and they won't lift a finger to make it easier for us. In their minds, numismatics is all about buying everything they produce in pretty packaging and whatever gimmick they can dream up. And as long as people buy that crap, that attitude won't go away.
Ok so does anyone else have the set, and can show pictures to see the quality?
My apologies to those who posted legitimate comment in this thread and got caught up in the "clearway".
I thought my set was pretty reasonable, but please understand I don't slab or photograph them normally. I just get an example of each and stash them. Ill take some photos during the week and post.
I have both the Proof and Mint sets.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/2015-11-30_21-59-55_0012.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10120/2015-11-30_21-58-41_0011.jpg)
Hope the above helps.
I purchased 3 mint sets over the counter at RAM on the day they were released
Looks like you and I have the only crappy quality 2016 Mint sets in Australia Goldie :laugh2::)
I don''t know about crappy coins but I am more than happy with the two sets I purchased.
Until I see a better UNC or MINT set, I shall keep what I have.
The baby sets are available now, maybe these will be better as they have the normal design coins in them.
Picked up my UNC set today and I am happy with it.
I usually obtain 1 or 2 UNC sets every year for my collection.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='82062' dateline='1448913708'Looks like you and I have the only crappy quality 2016 Mint sets in Australia Goldie :laugh2::)
Get over yourself trout there's nothing wrong with the coin quality of the 2016 mint sets :dodgy:
I have just ordered a couple of the Baby sets and a proof baby set from Old Mate in Lismore.
As it was mainly the obverse of the normal 2016 mint sets that let them down "My opinion" I am hopeful that the circulation designs on the 2016 Baby sets are of a higher quality .
For some reason the Baby set coins are normally quite nice
As a footnote the Quality of the Proof Sets since RAM made the move to put them in individual capsules instead of the old giant slab has improved the quality of the coins in the sets received .:good:
I also heard on the grapevine that there may be a 26 coin set of the ABC $1 coins in Proof being produced this year.:angel:
Yes trout, the sets are quite ordinary
Went to Downies; looked through 150 or so sets
Selected best 26
Broke them open; sent 10 best of each denomination to PCGS
50c are ordinary; don't think any will better MS66
5c often weakly struck; on many coins could see marks on the planchet that hadn't filled in during the strike. Still some were good
obverse of 20c were generally beautiful; reverses very bagmarked as if they had the obverse and reverse dies around the other way from normal
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='82127' dateline='1449047780'Yes trout, the sets are quite ordinary
Went to Downies; looked through 150 or so sets
Selected best 26
Broke them open; sent 10 best of each denomination to PCGS
50c are ordinary; don't think any will better MS66
5c often weakly struck; on many coins could see marks on the planchet that hadn't filled in during the strike. Still some were good
obverse of 20c were generally beautiful; reverses very bagmarked as if they had the obverse and reverse dies around the other way from normal
Thank you for posting the best qualified post on this subject.
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='82127' dateline='1449047780'Yes trout, the sets are quite ordinary
Went to Downies; looked through 150 or so sets
Selected best 26
Broke them open; sent 10 best of each denomination to PCGS
50c are ordinary; don't think any will better MS66
5c often weakly struck; on many coins could see marks on the planchet that hadn't filled in during the strike. Still some were good
obverse of 20c were generally beautiful; reverses very bagmarked as if they had the obverse and reverse dies around the other way from normal
Woow that's dedication! :good:
Thanks Emu, I knew it wasn't just me being "Picky"
Hopefully the Baby sets will be better, Have you had time to look at any of these yet ??
Quote from: 'serial' pid='82129' dateline='1449049821'Quote from: 'emu666' pid='82127' dateline='1449047780'Yes trout, the sets are quite ordinary
Went to Downies; looked through 150 or so sets
Selected best 26
Broke them open; sent 10 best of each denomination to PCGS
50c are ordinary; don't think any will better MS66
5c often weakly struck; on many coins could see marks on the planchet that hadn't filled in during the strike. Still some were good
obverse of 20c were generally beautiful; reverses very bagmarked as if they had the obverse and reverse dies around the other way from normal
Thank you for posting the best qualified post on this subject.
Why is that serial ?
QuoteWhy is that serial ?
It's because feathers does this sort of thing in a professional capacity as is bloody good at what he does :ok:
If he is of the opinion that the sets are pretty ordinary then you can take that as "Gospel"
It was great for Feathers to provide his input as I doubt any of us will ever get to peruse that number of sets, nor have his level of expertise in grading (well me at least).
btw: Nice to see you posting again Feathers!!
The cleaning crew have been through this thread. Thanks for the laugh. Moving right along....
Here are the 2016 Baby set coins.
They are a lot better than the standard Mint set, Not perfect but about the same as a normal set should look like :ok:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016__2.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016__1.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_50c.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_20c.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_10c.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_5c.jpg)
What! No special $1 In the baby set, Pah!
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='82743' dateline='1450088875'What! No special $1 In the baby set, Pah!
2016 baby sets are only way to obtain normal obverse circulating type coins.
Quality of these is exactly the same as the 2016 Changeover mint and proof sets ... cream of the crop exceptional quality
:wavemulticolor:
Quality of all 2016 sets are 100%
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='82743' dateline='1450088875'What! No special $1 In the baby set, Pah!
Don't worry too much Goldie, I imagine that there will be a plethora of "Special" 25mm $1 coins minted again this year mate :angel:
I did get a little ABC medallion with the set :)
I did order a Proof Baby set with these coins and was sent a standard proof set by mistake .
The normal proofs with the NCLT design are rather nice so I decided to keep the extra set and just re order the Proof Baby set again.
By the time that set gets here I should be doing the "Grey haired Nomad" thing with the missus so perhaps someone else could post images of their Proof Baby set when they receive it :ok:
Ah well, another set I have to get to maintain the collection.
It is really starting to get out of hand.
I have just spent a week valuating my collection from Greg Macdonalds book and have found a heap more errors to post.
Never mind, another set to get with different coins in them.
At this stage, the 2016 ABC coins will be given a big miss due to funding problems and space.
QuoteAh well, another set I have to get to maintain the collection.
It is really starting to get out of hand.
I have just been getting the Year sets and the Proof sets, sometimes I get something that I simply like but I have thrown away the "Gotta have em all" Yoke as far as RAM is concerned :dance2::)
I always used to get a Year set, but not any more. If I'm paying a premium to get six coins in a piece of cardboard, then the coins will have to be 'schmick', but they're far from it, so 2015 is the last year set for me.
At least it will allow me to buy something I will really love to have, say another pretty birdie coin. Just have to find the right one.
I picked up my 2016 Baby Proof set yesterday and the coins are stunning :yahoo:
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='82797' dateline='1450214596'I always used to get a Year set, but not any more. If I'm paying a premium to get six coins in a piece of cardboard, then the coins will have to be 'schmick', but they're far from it, so 2015 is the last year set for me.
At least it will allow me to buy something I will really love to have, say another pretty birdie coin. Just have to find the right one.
Every collector buys annual mint set
Quote from: 'runway' pid='83641' dateline='1452861082'Every collector buys annual mint set
Must be every collector except me.
And me. [And, I expect, quite a few others.]
My main interest is circulated (not "circulation") coins.
Traditionally the mint sets have been the best way of getting those gem coins for your collections all in one purchase.
However the mint has got cunning of late and you now have to get the baby set as well to have all the 6 circulating designs.
The same thing applies with the proof sets.
This year however that has changed the baby and the standard sets have full sets of 2 different designs.
RAM have been pretty "Coy" about which set of designs will be released for circulation But I have my doubts that it will be the "Changeover" designs.
We will just have to wait and see.
The quality of the Mint sets has dropped dramatically recently and I think this is a large contributing factor why many collectors now refuse to buy them.
The Proof set coins however are still produced with skill and great care is taken so as not to "Mar" the coins during the packaging process.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='83644' dateline='1452893838'Quote from: 'runway' pid='83641' dateline='1452861082'Every collector buys annual mint set
Must be every collector except me.
Not me either. :)
Quote from: 'Triggersmob' pid='83651' dateline='1452903828'Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='83644' dateline='1452893838'Quote from: 'runway' pid='83641' dateline='1452861082'Every collector buys annual mint set
Must be every collector except me.
Not me either. :)
:laugh2: ....... me too ........
I'm still buying them, in my opinion the quickest and easiest way to acquire a truly uncirculated year set, irrespective of any perceived poor quality. Most coins offered today are not uncirculated, particularly the pre decimal stuff, and I don't care if they are in a slab or offered raw.
It's really all a big con in my opinion, raw uncirculated or MS62 and 63 for example can often display more rubs and dings than found on the old TV ringside, and they got those from circulating through peoples pockets and nowhere else despite any BS to the contrary.
I decided that 2014 would be my last year for them, but was given a set for 2015 and could not resist the 2016, so it looks like RAM got me hook, line & sinker.
If I can keep my steely reserve intact, I'm now done with yearly sets.
Annual Mint sets and Proof sets are the basics of what collectors buy
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='83694' dateline='1452983600'I decided that 2014 would be my last year for them, but was given a set for 2015 and could not resist the 2016, so it looks like RAM got me hook, line & sinker.
If I can keep my steely reserve intact, I'm now done with yearly sets.
this is my last year, unless lizzy quits or dies next year I'll buy the last sets
I have just bought a couple of the new 2016 uncirculated sets with the Silver round 50 cents and the 1 and 2 cent coins.
It will be interesting to see if these sets are up to standard, at $75 a pop they had better be in superior condition to the 2016 Mint sets :angel:
It would be nice to have a round 50 cents in MS67 or better as MS66 is the best a 1966 coin has been found so far :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84157' dateline='1454410916'I have just bought a couple of the new 2016 uncirculated sets with the Silver round 50 cents and the 1 and 2 cent coins.
It will be interesting to see if these sets are up to standard, at $75 a pop they had better be in superior condition to the 2016 Mint sets :angel:
It would be nice to have a round 50 cents in MS67 or better as MS66 is the best a 1966 coin has been found so far :)
Nothing wrong with any 2016 mint sets quality they are flawless :wavemulticolor:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84157' dateline='1454410916'I have just bought a couple of the new 2016 uncirculated sets with the Silver round 50 cents and the 1 and 2 cent coins.
It will be interesting to see if these sets are up to standard, at $75 a pop they had better be in superior condition to the 2016 Mint sets :angel:
It would be nice to have a round 50 cents in MS67 or better as MS66 is the best a 1966 coin has been found so far :)
I have it on good authority that these sets are rather nice and the quality of the coins is excellent .
I have most of the sets issued so far for 2016, Mint Set, Baby set,
Baby Proof set and the Changeover Proof set.
Great care has been taken with the production and packaging of these sets with the exception of the 2016 Mint set, which is an absolute "Shocker" , They definitely "Dropped the Ball" with that set:dodgy:
I have my "in come the dollars, in come the cents" sets in hand and they are indeed exceptional, These are going to be buggers to image but I will try shortly and post the images :ok:
https://eshop.ramint.gov.au/2016-50c-Circ-Coin-Pack-50th-Anniversary-of-Decimal-Currency/710055.aspx
What's the free folder? Is it just a folder? Or is it the mint set? If it is mint set it seems too good to be true.
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='84430' dateline='1455195346'https://eshop.ramint.gov.au/2016-50c-Circ-Coin-Pack-50th-Anniversary-of-Decimal-Currency/710055.aspx
What's the free folder? Is it just a folder? Or is it the mint set? If it is mint set it seems too good to be true.
Well Well Well.
Looks like we have a new CIRCULATING Commemorative 50c :yahoo:
The folder is for putting a set of circulating coins together in I think.
I wonder if they are going to issue for circulation any of the other denominations with the same designs as were in the Mint set.
A circulating 5c and 10c would be a "First" :angel:
Looks like they are:
http://www.ramint.gov.au/media/press-releases/2016/20160211.cfm
Pedro
Quote from: 'Pedro' pid='84437' dateline='1455223216'Looks like they are:
http://www.ramint.gov.au/media/press-releases/2016/20160211.cfm
Pedro
That's good news and it just might spark some interest with new collectors joining us in this hobby :good:
Hahaha I knew I was too optimistic. Just a folder with no coins. :P
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='84441' dateline='1455228850'Hahaha I knew I was too optimistic. Just a folder with no coins. :P
When I first saw it on the RAM site I thought that the 10 coins on offer were blister packed to protect them.
Ah well :angel:
One can purchase $10.00 worth of the new 50c directly from the RAM plus $10.00 postage.
Mine are already on the way.
These new 50c pieces were released today via CBC ANZ etc.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='84453' dateline='1455242829'One can purchase $10.00 worth of the new 50c directly from the RAM plus $10.00 postage.
Mine are already on the way.
These new 50c pieces were released today via CBC ANZ etc.
I ordered mine and will get all the others as they become available as finding these in any sort of reasonable condition in my neck of the woods is pretty much an impossible task.
I am thinking that the circulating coins maybe better than the horrors in the Mint sets , Here's hoping :angel:
RAM is rolling these and all denominations as well
aGREED RUNWAY BUT NOT IN THE NEAR FUTURE THOUGH.
aNYWAY, THESE NEW ISSUES ARE THE SAME AS THE SPECIAL $66 SET THAT WE ALL BOUGHT. (In pattern only)
fURTHER, THE ram WILL BE SELLING 20 COINS IN BAGS FOR $10.00 ON THE DAYS THAT THEY ARE VISITING THE REGIONAL CENTRES AS PART OF THE CHANGEOVER TOUR.
I FOUND THAT BIT OF INFO OUT A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER I HAD ORDERED FOUR BAGS OF THE THINGS FROM THE ram WITH $10 PER BAG POSTAGE.
I THINK SOMEIONE AT THE ram HAS SOME EXPLAINING TO DO.
I SHALL BE LODGING A COMPLAINT WITH THE ram LATER.
Amended by the author shown in red!
Quoteanyway these new issues are the same as the special $66 set we all bought
The coin in the $66 "Here come the dollars/cents" is a round 80% silver coin , The coin being issued for circulation is the 50c coin found in the Mint Set that cost us $25 a pop.
ALL the other coins in that set are going to be issued as the year progresses in $10 bags from RAM with a $10 postage cost :good:
RAM certainly "Fudged" it by saying NO pick ups and then doing just that.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84514' dateline='1455375447'Quoteanyway these new issues are the same as the special $66 set we all bought
The coin in the $66 "Here come the dollars/cents" is a round 80% silver coin , The coin being issued for circulation is the 50c coin found in the Mint Set that cost us $25 a pop.
ALL the other coins in that set are going to be issued as the year progresses in $10 bags from RAM with a $10 postage cost :good:
RAM certainly "Fudged" it by saying NO pick ups and then doing just that.
I have amended my previous post re the 50c pieces.
yeah with you goldie
think it stinks a bit especially for folks like me who live down the road
so I grabbed a couple of bags yesterday thinking that I had ordered a bag that had all the denominations from the e-shop- my mistake I thought that the coins could then be popped into the little folder to make up a set but no, it's just the 50c and you collect the rest I suppose (from circulating)
the mint tour yesterday had the coin presses making thousands of the new designs and the staff were showing us handfuls of them as well (taking them from the newly pressed bins)
anyways, the whole open day was very well staffed so my extra few dollars went towards them having such an amazing contingent on duty to make the day go smoothly
if they just had of popped the mint pop up tent under those magnificent trees near by it would have been great - the trees are recently trimmed so I doubt any branches would have fallen even if the wind did pick up which it didn't - there was hardly any breeze to be found - just a strategics comment form a customer & I gave my exact feedback to the boss yesterday so I am good with it
Yes, just 50¢ now and they will have bags of other denominations later (each one a different date I presume).
Postage cost tends to make it an unattractive proposition compared to haunting the local bank for when they get deliveries.
i like the mint bags
i guess if they have $10 post per bag and only one order at a time they are doing OK in the profits business
plus i think a lot of bank employees have membership in the facebook coin selling pages
there are an incredible amount of 'new releases' sold on those pages
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='84531' dateline='1455422684'Yes, just 50¢ now and they will have bags of other denominations later (each one a different date I presume).
Postage cost tends to make it an unattractive proposition compared to haunting the local bank for when they get deliveries.
Apologies to the Off-Topic Police.
What is the best way to store RAM bags to prevent the coins from sloshing around and getting (further) bag marks?
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='84535' dateline='1455425931'i like the mint bags
i guess if they have $10 post per bag and only one order at a time they are doing OK in the profits business
plus i think a lot of bank employees have membership in the facebook coin selling pages
there are an incredible amount of 'new releases' sold on those pages
I was able to order two bags on the same phone call.
However, that also cost two lots of $10 for postage.
Even with the $10 postage for each bag it is still more cost efficient for me to get the coins this way as I live a fair way out of town and we rarely get any New coins here anyway.
Also I am Not paying the eBay "Vigorish" for the different coins as they are made available either.
I think this is a Good thing and is a fairer way of distributing these coins :good:
It would be nice to be able to get all the different issues at once and the extra $10 per bag wouldn't phase me too much, as long as I don't have to wait for the release .
I just ordered 2 x limited release 50 cents from a dealer ($35 each) & 1 x 2016 mint set and $10 50cent bag from RAM. When I bought both items cost me only $10 postage .
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='84531' dateline='1455422684'Yes, just 50¢ now and they will have bags of other denominations later (each one a different date I presume).
Thursday 11 February - 50c pack of 20 coins.
The remaining denominations:
•$2 - pack of 5 - Monday 4 April 2016
•$1 - pack of 10 - Monday 6 June 2016
•20c - pack of 20 coins - Tuesday 4 October 2016
•10c - pack of 40 coins - Tuesday 4 October 2016
•5c - pack of 40 coins - Tuesday 4 October 2016
runway Wrote:
QuoteThe $66 set is a pure rip off simply because of it's boxed packaging nature which should be in the normal folder
Have you actually examined the coins in this set, or are you simply making an assumption ?
After your rave review of the crappy Mint set I am surprised at your comment on this set as these coins are of a far higher quality.
As one of the coins in this set is silver it takes very little imagination to see that in a few years it would tarnish rather badly in a blister pack and I imagine that is why this set is packaged the way it is.
It would have been $66,for obvious reasons,no matter how it was packaged but its certainly a money spinner for the RAM.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84566' dateline='1455485119'runway Wrote:
QuoteThe $66 set is a pure rip off simply because of it's boxed packaging nature which should be in the normal folder
Have you actually examined the coins in this set, or are you simply making an assumption ?
After your rave review of the crappy Mint set I am surprised at your comment on this set as these coins are of a far higher quality.
As one of the coins in this set is silver it takes very little imagination to see that in a few years it would tarnish rather badly in a blister pack and I imagine that is why this set is packaged the way it is.
Yeah I have 2 sets and opened up another 3 at RAM Mintshop
Rip off price for just another 2016 coin set ,the quality is good like every other set
QuoteYeah I have 2 sets and opened up another 3 at RAM Mintshop
Rip off price for just another 2016 coin set ,the quality is good like every other set
Each to their own But I personally think the extra work involved in making the 80% Silver planchets and making special dies to create the 1, 2 and 50 cent coins justifies the additional cost of this particular set.
Not to mention the extra work and care taken to ensure that these particular coins don't get all "Bagged " up like the circ coins in the Mint set.
I have also been told that these coins were struck twice on an automated press in the proof room and are not the usual Uncirculated finish.
Add all this extra effort and expense together and an issue price of $66 is more than reasonable IMHO.
If say 0.00421666% of the population was inclined to want one of these (that's one adult in every sixth, four person family), the RAM would require 10,000 sets to fill demand. These may be a good earner a few short years down the track :yahoo:, so for preservation sake, do we leave them encased, or do we brake them out?
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='84592' dateline='1455600484'If say 0.00421666% of the population was inclined to want one of these (that's one adult in every sixth, four person family), the RAM would require 10,000 sets to fill demand. These may be a good earner a few short years down the track :yahoo:, so for preservation sake, do we leave them encased, or do we brake them out?
Keep the set as is nothing wrong with preservation in original packaging.
Australia population has now reached 24 million
Why would anyone PURCHASE this set just to get some coins slabbed?
:wavemulticolor:
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='84592' dateline='1455600484'If say 0.00421666% of the population was inclined to want one of these (that's one adult in every sixth, four person family), the RAM would require 10,000 sets to fill demand. These may be a good earner a few short years down the track :yahoo:, so for preservation sake, do we leave them encased, or do we brake them out?
I think they will be just fine the way they are packaged :good:
got my set today
beautiful
just beautiful
love the set 100%
I had a look at the PCGS Pop report and noticed that 12 2016 Mint sets have already been graded and to my surprise they graded pretty well.
Minimum grades are MS66 with a few making it to MS68, NO dollar coins have been submitted as of yet which seems strange .
I am thinking that these 12 sets were sent in by the same person and the dollar coins didn't make the "Cut".
So there are some good sets out there and I have to "Eat my Hat" But the 5 sets I got were all pretty much crappy .
I wonder how many sets were looked through to find these 12 sets that have been graded.
I could be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised at all if these submissions are the work of "Feathers" as it would have taken a degree of grading skill to select these coins to send in a submission to PCGS :)
and don't forget the availability of many sets to select the best
11theresa11 (on ebay and the facebook page) is also a biggie with the pcgs stuff and submits by the container load, so I hear
he has certainly blitzed the 1964 penny pcgs market
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='84802' dateline='1456220897'and don't forget the availability of many sets to select the best
11theresa11 (on ebay and the facebook page) is also a biggie with the pcgs stuff and submits by the container load, so I hear
he has certainly blitzed the 1964 penny pcgs market
HeHe
It's pretty tough being a trout swimming with the sharks :)
oh yeah baby
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='84802' dateline='1456220897'and don't forget the availability of many sets to select the best
11theresa11 (on ebay and the facebook page) is also a biggie with the pcgs stuff and submits by the container load, so I hear
he has certainly blitzed the 1964 penny pcgs market
Not real smart to assume and post names here with hearsay
BTW this person you mention helps people and doesn't submit PCGS by the container load and you know that !!!!
Quote from: 'runway' pid='84850' dateline='1456318821'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='84802' dateline='1456220897'and don't forget the availability of many sets to select the best
11theresa11 (on ebay and the facebook page) is also a biggie with the pcgs stuff and submits by the container load, so I hear
he has certainly blitzed the 1964 penny pcgs market
Not real smart to assume and post names here with hearsay
BTW this person you mention helps people and doesn't submit PCGS by the container load and you know that !!!!
Perhaps you could just ask him (http://www.cottonandco.com.au/about/) then it's not a secret.
Quote from: 'runway' pid='84850' dateline='1456318821'Not real smart to assume and post names here with hearsay
BTW this person you mention helps people and doesn't submit PCGS by the container load and you know that !!!!
They certainly do submit a very large number of coins to PCGS. Just because they are helpful doesn't preclude that.
QuotePerhaps you could just ask him then it's not a secret.
This Bloke seems to be pretty successful at what he is doing, Good on him :good:
I am surprised that the in come the dollars/cents sets haven't sold out at RAM yet.
With a mintage of only 10,000 and this is the only way to get one of the 2016 Silver round 50 cent coins and the other denomination coins with the standard designs plus the 1 and 2 cent coins I thought that this particular set would be a sell out.
Quote from: 'runway' pid='84850' dateline='1456318821'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='84802' dateline='1456220897'and don't forget the availability of many sets to select the best
11theresa11 (on ebay and the facebook page) is also a biggie with the pcgs stuff and submits by the container load, so I hear
he has certainly blitzed the 1964 penny pcgs market
Not real smart to assume and post names here with hearsay
BTW this person you mention helps people and doesn't submit PCGS by the container load and you know that !!!!
watch your French possum , I like you, am entitled to my opinion
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84858' dateline='1456355721'I am surprised that the in come the dollars/cents sets haven't sold out at RAM yet.
With a mintage of only 10,000 and this is the only way to get one of the 2016 Silver round 50 cent coins and the other denomination coins with the standard designs plus the 1 and 2 cent coins I thought that this particular set would be a sell out.
Yeah,but there is so much crap being issued where does it stop.
I've been following the Lismore Online coins listing on Ebay and it looks like he's putting up around 50(surprising at this early stage) and has sold about half at $74 including Post.I thought they would sell out in a day or so.
Even the gold coins were being sold in bulk by dealers, the RAM seems to have gotten them out early this time. Perhaps that is in an effort to keep the prices more realistic?
fixed the typos and the link ... mobile phone post last night ha ha
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/100x-2016-Gold-Plated-Round-50c-Fifty-Cent-Low-21-966-Mintage-PRESALE-/272140496300?hash=item3f5cd66dac:g:~S0AAOSw5dNWsWg1
I did manage to get 2 of the open day and 4 standard issue Gold plated 50 cent coins before the prices went stupid.
They are a nice enough coin but I think when the "Hoo Ha" subsides with these the Silver coin in the here come the dollars/cents sets will be the "Prize" coin :)
The RAM Changeover Tent in Melbourne yesterday and one could buy as many as you liked over the counter at issue price. No limit.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='84913' dateline='1456451464'The RAM Changeover Tent in Melbourne yesterday and one could buy as many as you liked over the counter at issue price. No limit.
Are we talking about the gold plated 50c here Goldie?
Yes you could buy the gold 50c standard release ( NOT OPEN DAY )
for $20 each. ( No limit)
It looked like they had plenty
Jens Coins has responded on my behalf. Thanks Jens Coins
Quote from: 'trout' pid='84858' dateline='1456355721'I am surprised that the in come the dollars/cents sets haven't sold out at RAM yet.
With a mintage of only 10,000 and this is the only way to get one of the 2016 Silver round 50 cent coins and the other denomination coins with the standard designs plus the 1 and 2 cent coins I thought that this particular set would be a sell out.
I agree - I thought it was a well-priced set, besides the fact it's quite nice.
Maybe we collectors are the only ones aware of the significance of the coins.
Quote from: 'triplewitch' pid='84951' dateline='1456522921'Maybe we collectors are the only ones aware of the significance of the coins.
This is a good thing as it allows the collectors that haven't got one of these sets yet to be able to buy them without the added "vigorish" that comes from having to buy them on the secondary market :good:
The changeover sets were selling quite nicely at the changeover tour here in Melbourne on Thursday.
The in come the dollars/cents sets are now sold out at RAM and selling for $90-$100 a set on eBay
Quote from: 'trout' pid='85313' dateline='1457303734'The in come the dollars/cents sets are now sold out at RAM and selling for $90-$100 a set on eBay
I'm glad I bought a couple before they sold out and the price spiked. I guess it will only go up from there now.
I guess my six sets are pretty safe for a reasonable profit then?
QuoteI guess my six sets are pretty safe for a reasonable profit then?
At $66 a set these were an absolute bargain to begin with as they are beautifully produced high quality coins and they are packaged rather well also :good:
I would think that this particular set will be as sought after as the 1966 proof set in a few years time and they have almost half the mintage as the 1966 set :ok:
I think you made a wise investment with your 6 sets purchase Goldie, Well done Mate :yahoo:
I'm just glad I was able to secure a few for myself and the kids. I wasn't originally going to purchase any but after listening to Trout, It was a smart move. They are very nice indeed.
The 2016 Proof and Baby Proof sets that I got were pretty good.
I have just got some results from PCGS and here are the best of them.
2016 Proof set
$2 PR69DC
$1 PR69DC
50c PR70DC
20c PR70DC
10c PR70DC
5c PR70DC
2016 Baby Proof Set, These are the standard design coins.
$2 PR69DC
$1 PR70DC
50c PR70DC
20c PR69DC
10c PR69DC
5c PR70DC
Wow! Great grades Troutski!
That is top of the tree!
You must be happy with those grades.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='85773' dateline='1458291863'That is top of the tree!
You must be happy with those grades.
Here is the whole submission.
No real surprises here as these are beautifully produced coins.
A bit disappointed with the grade of the silver proof dollar But you can't win em all :angel:
https://www.pcgs.com/Membership/sharedorder.aspx?OrderNo=21016633&Year=2016&Month=3
I have 12 sets of the "In come the dollars/cents" that I am going to pick out the best couple of sets to send in for grading over the weekend.
So why slab?
Intact sets are much more attractive to collectors
Quote from: 'runway' pid='85864' dateline='1458472219'So why slab?
Intact sets are much more attractive to collectors
I do this because although it is nice to have a set of coins you "think "are the best, It is far more satisfying to have a set you "Know" is the best and graded as such :):ok:
It's a bit like having a 1970 Captain Cook 50c in the red plastic holder.
It may look nice but is it as good as a SP68 coin ?
Quote from: 'trout' pid='85872' dateline='1458517279'Quote from: 'runway' pid='85864' dateline='1458472219'So why slab?
Intact sets are much more attractive to collectors
I do this because although it is nice to have a set of coins you "think "are the best, It is far more satisfying to have a set you "Know" is the best and graded as such :):ok:
It's a bit like having a 1970 Captain Cook 50c in the red plastic holder.
It may look nice but is it as good as a SP68 coin ?
The 1970 50's that I've seen in the red plastic holders are mostly in very misereable condition so I would not be buying any myself without a personal inhand inspection so if you want a high grade example then buying a slabbed coin is a good option unless you want an ungraded coin or set just for the sake of having it
QuoteThe 1970 50's that I've seen in the red plastic holders are mostly in very misereable condition so I would not be buying any myself without a personal inhand inspection so if you want a high grade example then buying a slabbed coin is a good option unless you want an ungraded coin or set just for the sake of having it
Many collectors are on a limited budget and are unable to afford the slabbing fees let alone the premium that a high grade example commands.
When buying a Specimen Captain Cook firstly ensure that the coin inside the red case is indeed a specimen strike and hasn't been swapped out for a circulation coin.
I have noticed lately that this case that is responsible for some amazing toning is starting to actually eat into the coin so keep your eyes open for this as well, Look at the rims of the coins as this is the area first affected.
Good examples of these are still available for $5-$10
great results there Trout on the baby and proof 2016 coins do you think the mint got it together on these sets and it would be a fairly consistent result , i have one proof set and it looks pretty good but you have a few to compare
I think for the last 3 years the Mint has "Got it Together" with the quality of the Proof sets :good:
cheers Trout that's good to know i am in the middle of cracking my coins out of their packaging and was thinking of sending a few for grading , i will only send the latest plus maybe a few choice early ones
Quote from: 'AussieSilver' pid='85950' dateline='1458637775'cheers Trout that's good to know i am in the middle of cracking my coins out of their packaging and was thinking of sending a few for grading , i will only send the latest plus maybe a few choice early ones
If you are going to open the large rectangle slabs the earlier proofs are housed in be really careful how you do it because it generally involves the use of force and sharp objects, even the plastic itself can get wicked sharp.
The earlier issues coins in the large plastic slabs are prone to spot toning and "Misting" , this will seriously affect the grade it receives, So have a really good look at your coins before you decide to crack open.
Also be Super careful when handling the proof coins ,even the moisture from a sneeze can pretty much ruin the finish on these.
If you feel that a coin needs a "Rub" to get rid of a minor blemish on the coin then don't be tempted to rub it, This coin won't make the "Cut" anyway so why ruin it.
I have found the best way to get the coins into the saflips for grading is to scoop them up with the flip and slide them into the pocket in the slip you have opened prior to scooping up, this way you never need to actually touch them.
It is most important to have a soft dust free cotton cloth to sort your coins after cracking open that big slab, I use a piece of freshly washed muslim for this purpose.
Anyway have fun doing this and let us know how they grade :ok:
thks for the advice , yes a few of my early ones have the dark spots on them hence i want to save the rest , have already found out about moisture just my breath was enough to stuff a couple of coins i got from a roll i opened , these days i wear a mask lol
This set was painstakingly put together by Emu (Feathers) and is quite an achievement considering the average quality of most of these coins :good:
Nice to see his hard work paying off and it just goes to show that you can find some nice coins in this set if you are willing to look through hundreds of different sets to find them :ok:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Complete-Set-Of-2016-50-Years-Of-Decimal-Currency-PCGS-MS67-MS68/371572887007?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3Df455fdedf5f0486eb381ce1aa994c378%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D371572887007
I have just compared the 5,10,20 and 50c coins I have in the 2016 mint "baggies" to the coins in my mint sets and the strike is quite different.
The mint set coins have granular looking fields and the circulation coins have the normal smooth fields .
Has anyone else noticed this ?
The 2016 Silver Proof set is now available for Pre order at $350,
Mintage is 1966.
https://eshop.ramint.gov.au/2016-Fine-Proof-Silver-Year-Set-50th-Anniversary-of-Decimal-Currency/210510.aspx
:shock: at that price I think i'll have to give it a miss.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91974' dateline='1467638978':shock: at that price I think i'll have to give it a miss.
Yes they are pretty pricy But the only way to obtain a 2016 Silver round Proof is to buy one of these sets.
The other coins are also quite interesting because they are struck in Silver but the 50 cent coin is the star of the show in this set.
I was hoping that they would come up with a standard proof set with the same coins and metals as the original 1966 proof set to commemorate the 50th .
WARNING
If you suffer from "Packkyboxitis" please do NOT read the rest of this post :ok:
I have recently been upgrading my sets that I have in 2x2's stored in PP coin albums and in doing so I have a few of the new ( now empty) boxes the proof sets came in.
These are perfect as jewellery boxes as you can remove the padded holder that holds the capsules in place very easily and without damaging the box and the bottom of the box also has a nice padded surface .
My Granddaughters absolutely Love them :)
Tracking shows that my 2016 Silver proof sets have arrived :yahoo:
I will pick them up when I go into town today and post some images later :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93862' dateline='1470612987'I will pick them up when I go into town today and post some images later :ok:
Yes please, particularly the 50 cent.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='93864' dateline='1470613572'Quote from: 'trout' pid='93862' dateline='1470612987'I will pick them up when I go into town today and post some images later :ok:
Yes please, particularly the 50 cent.
No Worries, That coin is the main reason that I bought these :good:
I had a late "Nanna nap" and only woke up a while ago and that is why it took me so long to get these images done :angel:
Here are a couple of images of the rather nice presentation box and of course the Star of the Show :)
Not a double bar But Beautifully crafted as are all the other coins in the set.
Quite a Stunning set of coins :good:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_silver_set1.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_silver_set.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_silver_set2.jpg)
Nice set! :D
Thanks trout, what sort of timber is the box?
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='93904' dateline='1470680525'Thanks trout, what sort of timber is the box?
I have no idea :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='93905' dateline='1470680882'Quote from: 'r9453' pid='93904' dateline='1470680525'Thanks trout, what sort of timber is the box?
I have no idea :)
My sets are Jarrah which is nice but that box looks different. Does it say anything about it in the C.O.A.? I know it's about the coins and not the packaging but these boxes are intrinsically worthwhile.
The wood does look different to the Jarrah boxes, It is also smaller and less cumbersome as well.
Maybe it is the high Gloss varnish finish on this one that makes the wood look different as well, There is nothing in the coa or the box care sheet that came with the set either.
Thanks trout, I just saw one at Downies and it looked more like plastic than wood.
I think that the box is made of wood it does smell varnishy But I can try and find out for sure for you.
I have 2 of these sets so if the grain looks different on them they probably are wood, I will also ask on the RAM shaping your collection forum as well :ok:
The woodgrain on the 2 boxes are quite different so I am going with Wood with these :good:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/2016_silver_set3.jpg)
I just got confirmation from Dion Buck that these cases are indeed timber :)
Thanks again trout, they must be heavily lacquered, a bit like Japanese style. The fact that I was prepared to believe they were fake wood is a sign of how low my opinion of the RAM has sunk.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='94012' dateline='1470754655'Thanks again trout, they must be heavily lacquered, a bit like Japanese style. The fact that I was prepared to believe they were fake wood is a sign of how low my opinion of the RAM has sunk.
The annual Silver proof sets have always been a high quality item with superbly minted coins housed in elegant wooden boxes.
The 2016 set is No exception to this and as of now they are "sold out" at the RAM Shop, This doesn't surprise me at all as the mintage was a low 1966 sets and the 1c, 2c and the round 50c are quite unique :good:
In regards to 2016 BABY Uncirculated and Proof Sets.
Did either of the sets have the changeover type on the obverse side? (or just standard?)
Many Thanks
just standard
Quote from: 'jens coins' pid='113947' dateline='1517129872'just standard
for both proof and uncirculated sets?
both standard
2016 Proof baby set:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-2016-Alphabet-Series-Baby-Proof-Set-Scarce/192433728249?hash=item2ccdf1aaf9:g:HpwAAOSwZ11aZGq0
2016 baby uncirculated set:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-2016-Baby-Uncirculated-Set-with-Coloured-Printed-Token/401480590408?hash=item5d7a1ba448:g:Zb4AAOSwGBhaZGvm
Quote from: 'jens coins' pid='113949' dateline='1517133751'both standard
2016 Proof baby set:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-2016-Alphabet-Series-Baby-Proof-Set-Scarce/192433728249?hash=item2ccdf1aaf9:g:HpwAAOSwZ11aZGq0
2016 baby uncirculated set:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-2016-Baby-Uncirculated-Set-with-Coloured-Printed-Token/401480590408?hash=item5d7a1ba448:g:Zb4AAOSwGBhaZGvm
Thanks - the listings do not show the obverse of the coins!
I had searched as well and could not find any listings with obverse of coins.
I would love to see one, if any one can find one.
I thank you for your efforts.