So I got this in a bulk lot ages ago and just dismissed it as pmd and chucked it into my junk bag. but today I was just reviewing someof my old lots and I had a better more learned look at it and realised that the impression on the coin is not a mirror as would happen with a vice job. instead I now think it may be a real low graded double strike! you can majke out "h of
Thoughts?
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/1911_error_penny_d.JPG)"
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/1911_error_penny_c.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/1911_error_penny_b.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/1911_error_penny_a.JPG)
Very interesting Serial!
What does the obverse look like?
Awful! I will take some pics tomorrow and post them. I really should have done it at the same time " face palm"
Look like the real deal to me but couldn't tell you what it's worth
some more pics, I am interested in hearing opinions on value s I cannot find anything like it
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/PA070327.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/PA070326.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/PA070325.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/PA070324.JPG)
You could post it over to mark and Pp for them to go over it but to me it looks as if it has been hammered. If it were a true error the obverse would not be so blatantly flattened which appears to my eye to be from the damage done on the reverse side. Just offering my opinion
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='80450' dateline='1444218985'You could post it over to mark and Pp for them to go over it but to me it looks as if it has been hammered. If it were a true error the obverse would not be so blatantly flattened which appears to my eye to be from the damage done on the reverse side. Just offering my opinion
You know what that is exactly what I thought 2 years ago when I 1st saw it but I now realise that if it was a home made job using a vice/hammer and another coin then the imprint would be mirrored and not like it is. It appears the coin has been struck 3 times and maybe god stuck in the die leading to it being gouged out. I believe it got stuck because it was to thin as it is paper thin compared to a normal penny. I will get my scales/ calipers out and post up dimensions
ok so it is 9.18g
1.2mmthick at its thinnest point and 32.1 mm in diameter at widest point
this compared to a normal penny 9.31g, 1.8mm, 30.5
I suspect it has been struck, not fully ejected then partially struck again with the 2nd planchet flattening the obverse so that it appears heavily worn and leaving a partially struck revers on it. it has then happened again leading to the coin being thinner and wider
I have no idea what to do with it as I cant seem to find an equivalent
Yeah,you really need one of the Dealers that handle coins everyday to comment but in the early days of Ebay there were similar Coins listed and apparently the seller was pressing another Coin(or something like that) onto the warmed surface of another Coin to get that effect.He was outed on the Ebay forums IIRC along with a list of his various Accounts.
Anyway it deserves more investigation to see if it is indeed genuine,getting it slabbed will define it one way or the other.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='80450' dateline='1444218985'... but to me it looks as if it has been hammered. If it were a true error the obverse would not be so blatantly flattened which appears to my eye to be from the damage done on the reverse side. Just offering my opinion
:i_agree: IMHO it's been damaged too much for it to be a genuine error. But..if I am proved wrong I'm happy to eat my words. :grin:
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='80456' dateline='1444255933'Yeah,you really need one of the Dealers that handle coins everyday to comment but in the early days of Ebay there were similar Coins listed and apparently the seller was pressing another Coin(or something like that) onto the warmed surface of another Coin to get that effect.He was outed on the Ebay forums IIRC along with a list of his various Accounts.
Anyway it deserves more investigation to see if it is indeed genuine,getting it slabbed will define it one way or the other.
Again that was my initial thought but then I realized the the coin image is not mirrored but rather it is correctly struck. This means it could only have been done with a die. It also means somewhere out there is a 1911 penny missing the top part of its design. As for grading it I am still not convinced it is economically viable to do that yet. No one has given any indication of value or links to sales of similarly mistruck coins. So until then I am reluctant to commit $140+ in grading fees to the coin
Hey Serial, thanks for putting up the photos of the obverse.
I would have expected there to be an impact on it too, but I can't see any, which makes me think pmd. (Similar impact perhaps to the second image in Mark's blog http://www.australian-threepence.com/blog/2009/01/double-struck-coin-error.html (http://www.australian-threepence.com/blog/2009/01/double-struck-coin-error.html) ).
I would have also thought there would be more impact on the rim such as some bulging out more where the double strike takes place.
While the striking on the reverse is not mirrored that doesn't rule out someone playing monkey business with it.
For example if I were to create a cast of a penny, I could then use that cast to hammer a correct non-mirrored strike onto a normal penny.
I think with all the flattening on this one, that may be what has happened.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='80464' dateline='1444267474'Hey Serial, thanks for putting up the photos of the obverse.
I would have expected there to be an impact on it too, but I can't see any, which makes me think pmd. (Similar impact perhaps to the second image in Mark's blog http://www.australian-threepence.com/blog/2009/01/double-struck-coin-error.html (http://www.australian-threepence.com/blog/2009/01/double-struck-coin-error.html) ).
I would have also thought there would be more impact on the rim such as some bulging out more where the double strike takes place.
While the striking on the reverse is not mirrored that doesn't rule out someone playing monkey business with it.
For example if I were to create a cast of a penny, I could then use that cast to hammer a correct non-mirrored strike onto a normal penny.
I think with all the flattening on this one, that may be what has happened.
Your thinking the way I think. when I look at an eror coin I have to be satisfied of 2 thinks
1- The process in which the error can occur
2- can this error be created.
1-Now I have notices that it has been struck multiple times (at least 4) but their is no image on the obverse. this I believe is because the coin press kept on accepting blanks after the initial striking thus leading to the flattening of the design element on the obvers that we see. below is an example of a multiple strike brockage . note the way the obverse has been flattened across the middle (like my coin), note that I only think the example was double struck once with the blank area being a part blocked by another coin in the initial strike.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11197/example_1.jpg)
2-can someone mould a design, create a cast die and hammer the coin with it. the answer is yes but you have 2 problems with this. What material are you going to cast the dies with that couldn't deform or shatter when struck onto copper? The patina clearly indicates this was done a fair time ago and the coin came from a lot that has been dormant for 60+ years. plus the strike is frankly to good, look at the "O" and denticles, see how sharp and well shaped they are, a cast die will not produce a strike this good as any metal that was abled to be cast would simply fall apart if used to strike copper. I just don't see how this could be reproduced
The KG VI Roo above is a great example coin Serial.
Additionally, I hope you are correct and that yours is an error.
As soon as my eye is better I'll give replicating the error a go. (At the moment watching the TV and PC are about my limits so swinging a heavy hammer is a bit out of the question).
Will have to dig out a couple of grubby KGVs.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='80466' dateline='1444271067'The KG VI Roo above is a great example coin Serial.
Additionally, I hope you are correct and that yours is an error.
As soon as my eye is better I'll give replicating the error a go. (At the moment watching the TV and PC are about my limits so swinging a heavy hammer is a bit out of the question).
Will have to dig out a couple of grubby KGVs.
its a lovely coin that is for sure! would swap mine for it in a heart beat :)
its ex-iag and sold for $1100+com.
I may end up just putting it in my "to be sent to pcgs" error pile and take a gamble when I have enough of them
Quote from: 'serial' pid='80462' dateline='1444266459'Again that was my initial thought but then I realized the the coin image is not mirrored but rather it is correctly struck. This means it could only have been done with a die. It also means somewhere out there is a 1911 penny missing the top part of its design. As for grading it I am still not convinced it is economically viable to do that yet. No one has given any indication of value or links to sales of similarly mistruck coins. So until then I am reluctant to commit $140+ in grading fees to the coin
Fair enough,doesn't Eric send Coins off to be graded?,send him a PM if he doesn't see thread and ask him if its worth it.
I've seen coins like that all my life and usually stay away as for every genuine one there are 50 PMD's,people are very innovative & clever when money is involved.
Good luck with it but it really needs grading by an expert.
Expensive exercise sending these to PCGS and I doubt they would grade it
Interesting 3d coin on Ebay,seller ID as a fake.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1918-Australia-silver-3-Pence-Brockage-/111815175444?hash=item1a08b42d14:g:fRsAAOSwT5tWOYPN