Australian-Coins Forum

Numismatic Discussion => Coin Chit Chat => Topic started by: ausjack on July 23, 2015, 07:26:06 AM

Title: No date on coins
Post by: ausjack on July 23, 2015, 07:26:06 AM
Ok I've been sorting world coins, yeah still :( and come across one from monaco that doesn't have a date so wondering how many others there are that don't??
I thought I had one to send to Nancy but yet again missed by one year, seems to be the story of my life at the moment :dodgy:
Here's a numista link and I wish it was the top coin but I have the second one down
http://en.numista.com/catalogue/monaco-3.html
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: trout on July 23, 2015, 07:34:30 AM
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='75990' dateline='1437602166'Ok I've been sorting world coins, yeah still :( and come across one from monaco that doesn't have a date so wondering how many others there are that don't??
I thought I had one to send to Nancy but yet again missed by one year, seems to be the story of my life at the moment :dodgy:
Here's a numista link and I wish it was the top coin but I have the second one down
http://en.numista.com/catalogue/monaco-3.html

The second one down has was minted in 1945 :ok:
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: ausjack on July 23, 2015, 07:49:11 AM
I have the second one but I wanted it to be the first, 1943 :dash1:
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: Sapyx on July 23, 2015, 03:45:50 PM
Dates on coins are, in many respects, an anachronism in this day and age, as their original purpose - as part of the quality control - is no longer really necessary. We, the money-using general public, no longer really "need" dates on coins. We, the coin collectors, like them because it gives us something else to collect, but coin collectors are a tiny minority of the coin-using population.

Logically, dateless coins would be slightly cheaper for a mint to make, as they wouldn't have to keep altering the dies every year. Yet, the tradition of putting dates on coins remains; the extra money earned by coin collectors "buying" coins of different dates outweighs the costs of putting the dates there in the first place.

As for the more direct answer to your question, there aren't too many 20th and 21st century coins that I can think of which do not have a date at all, although once you get back into the 1500s and earlier, dateless coins become the norm, at least in Europe.

Much more commonly encountered is the concept of the "frozen date". A coin that bears a date - say, "1945" - that was actually struck not only in 1945 but for several years after 1945. Perhaps the most blatant example of this is in the coinage of Jersey, where the copper coins were dated "1945" until long after Queen Elizabeth's portrait appeared on the other side. Thailand and Ethiopia are two other countries where frozen dates are common. There was even an example of sorts in the American series, where bicentennial commemorative coins were dated "1976" but struck and released into circulation from 1975.
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: ausjack on July 23, 2015, 04:34:25 PM
As usual your a wealth of knowledge mate, much appreciated and thanks heaps for sharing :thank_you:
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: robbiegal on July 23, 2015, 07:29:57 PM
is the Maria Theresa Thaler  also a frozen date?
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: trout on July 23, 2015, 07:41:59 PM
QuoteLogically, dateless coins would be slightly cheaper for a mint to make, as they wouldn't have to keep altering the dies every year. Yet, the tradition of putting dates on coins remains; the extra money earned by coin collectors "buying" coins of different dates outweighs the costs of putting the dates there in the first place.

I am thinking that by putting the dates on coins by whatever mint gives them the ability to keep track of how many of a particular coin has been produced :ok:
The mint of any country doesn't "decide" how many of whatever denomination is needed to be produced , The government of that country will provide that request I imagine.
Nothing whatsoever to do with us collectors gets factored into the production of circulating coins :angel:
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: ausjack on July 23, 2015, 08:01:50 PM
You mean to tell me I don't count..story of my life :cray:
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: trout on July 23, 2015, 08:34:26 PM
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='76032' dateline='1437647510'You mean to tell me I don't count..story of my life :cray:

Not just you Mate, The Mint has absolutely NO concern as to the "Well Being" of ANY collector, As long as they make  Quid:ok:
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: ausjack on July 23, 2015, 08:38:26 PM
Yes and doesn't it show :dash1:
Title: RE: No date on coins
Post by: Sapyx on July 24, 2015, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='76025' dateline='1437645597'is the Maria Theresa Thaler  also a frozen date?

The Maria Theresa thaler is more a "restrike" than a "frozen date". The entire type was "frozen"; the empress herself died in 1780, which is why that particular date was originally chosen for the restrikes.

Quote from: 'trout' pid='76027' dateline='1437646319'I am thinking that by putting the dates on coins by whatever mint gives them the ability to keep track of how many of a particular coin has been produced :ok:
The mint of any country doesn't "decide" how many of whatever denomination is needed to be produced , The government of that country will provide that request I imagine.
Nothing whatsoever to do with us collectors gets factored into the production of circulating coins :angel:

The mint doesn't need to actually put the date on the coins themselves in order to track their production numbers.

While I agree mints "don't care" about collectors, they do care about profit. The mint, or rather the government that employs them, makes money on every single coin they make that has a face value higher than the production costs. They know coin collectors want to keep one coin of each date, so they only need to do the math: are there enough collectors to pay for the continual modification of the dies in incorporate the date? The answer, from pretty much every country around the world, is "yes".