Australian-Coins Forum

Australian Coins, Banknotes and Exonumia => Australian Errors and Varieties => Topic started by: Greg McDonald on July 13, 2015, 12:12:07 PM

Title: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Greg McDonald on July 13, 2015, 12:12:07 PM
I wonder if there is anyone out there who fully understands the Wide/Narrow date 1994 Year of the family varieties. Some years ago I listed information from a collector who had a very impressive collection of PNC. Within weeks of publication I got comments from people who said the information was incorrect.  Each year, no mater what I do/change, there is someone who wants to contradict me.  Now I know this turmoil isn't up there with the black death or the dropping of the A bomb - but is there anyone out there that can give me the definitive answer.
In particular I'd like to know if we are in agreement that the width is "6mm" and "7mm".  
I understand that the rare version in the PNC is common in circulation, the normal mint set and the baby mint sets.

I am unsure what is the rare/common in the proof and baby proof set (if any).

I know my books have helped create this mess and I'd like to sort it out once and for all,

Thanks in advance

Kind Regards


Greg
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Triggersmob on July 13, 2015, 03:21:42 PM
There is a Wiki for this coin on this site. It might not have the info you are looking for, but when you find it, maybe we could update the Wiki.
http://wiki.australian-coins.net/wiki/australian-coins/decimal-coins/fifty-cent-coins/fifty-cent-errors-varieties/1994-year-family-wide-narrow-date-varieties/
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Greg McDonald on July 13, 2015, 05:32:35 PM
Hi Trig
Thanks for your quick reply. Yes I have already seen this excellent listing that clearly shows how to determine the difference between the wide and narrow date. This part I understand.  What I am really trying to find out is the rarity connection.

Can anyone let me know if it is the 6mm "Narrow" date that is rare in the PNC issues.

If this is the case I think that the wide date "7" is scarce in circulation and in the mint and baby sets with the narrow date being quite common in these sets.

Some posts say there are both varieties in the proof sets but others say only one.  

As I mentioned earlier, I have contributed to this confusion and I would like to set the record straight.  
Thanks in advance for any further help in sorting this out.
Cheers


Greg
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: JeffH on July 13, 2015, 07:14:25 PM
Anyone that regularly noodles can confirm that the wide date is the less common in circulation (although I would not really say "scarce").

Do we have enough members here that may have PNCs , or these coins sourced from PNCs, that they could list how many of which date version they have and produce a big enough sample to determine the issue? The total mintage of the PNC version is not large so it is unlikely there would have been many dies involved.

We really don't want to have to call in the vet.
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: robbiegal on July 13, 2015, 08:14:11 PM
think the Mark n' PP need a yooo hooo (or coooeee??)
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Greg McDonald on July 13, 2015, 08:15:05 PM
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for your help and suggestion.  If the wide date is the scarcest version in the circulation world, does that mean, by default, that it's the "narrow" date version is the PNC series.

Hope someone can verify that.

Thanks for the help so far.
Kind Regards
Greg
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: runway on July 13, 2015, 10:44:43 PM
Greg I can confirm the narrow date in PNC are rare, and the baby mint sets had both varieties
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Greg McDonald on July 14, 2015, 01:32:01 AM
Hi Runaway,

Just the news I wanted thank you!  If you can answer another question please.  Would you think that the wide date is harder to get in circulation and mint sets. Seems like what's rare in one series is common in the other camp.  Thanks also for your comments Robbiegal.  I've read Markin's many posts and while he mentions there are two varieties nothing I have read actually states the rare and common varieties.  If you are out there Mark and you have something more substantial that I've overlooked I apologise and also ask if you could set me straight.  It would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Greg

PS By the way.  I hope to get some good news tomorrow regarding the book.  I've had a nightmare four weeks trying to re-link 1,000's of pics as I've mentioned earlier.  I ended up with about 40 I just couldn't fix so I emailed them to the Printers InDesign guru who has solved the problem --- eventually. If I get the word tomorrow I'll be heading up to Canberra on Wednesday to sign off on the proofs.  It will take three days just to print so I just have to wait for a slot on the machine. I've offered to pay extra so they can bring in a team over the weekend (You're not supposed to make money out of books anyway).  This is the 15th book I have produced with my printer and they always give me preference when they can.  I've decided to give the overseas printers a miss.  They did a very good job but I just feel better about keeping the money in the country.  I'll keep everyone up-to-date as I know more.
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: markn on July 14, 2015, 06:45:36 PM
I am out here.  Sorry I have no idea as the to relative scarcity of the two varieties.
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: runway on July 14, 2015, 09:47:22 PM
Macca I love your decision of supporting Australian jobs that's to be congratulated
Apart from confirming the narrow date in PNC is rare I have old info about this stored away somewhere and I'll search for it and send it on to you
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Mister T on July 16, 2015, 07:18:12 PM
Bit of a late contribution: http://web.archive.org/web/20091015085256/http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ihartshorn/feature/f4.htm
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: trout on July 16, 2015, 07:38:34 PM
To be quite honest who really gives a rats arse if you have a narrow or large date of this much "unloved" coin in your 50 cent collection.
This is more of a "must have" instead of a "wanna have" in that series:angel:
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: robbiegal on July 16, 2015, 08:10:04 PM
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='75682' dateline='1437040092'Bit of a late contribution: http://web.archive.org/web/20091015085256/http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ihartshorn/feature/f4.htm

excellent
just what Greg might be after!

I remember the coin shop telling us (years ago) that the wide date normal circulation was a bit of a furphy
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: runway on July 16, 2015, 09:26:53 PM
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='75685' dateline='1437043204'
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='75682' dateline='1437040092'Bit of a late contribution: http://web.archive.org/web/20091015085256/http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ihartshorn/feature/f4.htm

excellent
just what Greg might be after!

I remember the coin shop telling us (years ago) that the wide date normal circulation was a bit of a furphy
Also there is both in PNC form on eBay and the narrow date is what all PNC collectors are chasing.It's not the coin itself it's the rarity of the PNC with such a coin in it
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/361339495597?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Pedro on July 16, 2015, 09:48:26 PM
I am not sure about the percentages between normal (20%) and wide dates (80%) in relation to uncirculated sets in the article attached by Mister T. From what I have read previously the wide date 50c were seen to be rarer in uncirculated sets, not the normal dates.

The average price (for the year to date) on Ebay for a 1994 wide date uncirculated set is $37.75 and the normal date set $26.85. The wide date set has always attracted a premium compared to the normal date sets since I have been tracking prices from 2010.

If the article is correct then the 1994 uncirculated set market has been mistaken for some time.

It would be nice if the RAM could have been definitive on the mintages of these little blighters and where they went.

Pedro
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Triggersmob on July 16, 2015, 09:41:25 PM
Only 15% wide date in circulation. I must have been very lucky to find one then. :)
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: robbiegal on July 16, 2015, 09:55:18 PM
from the link

Thanks to Dennis Hughes for the information below.

Here is the research that I did 2 years ago. I went through 5 bags from RAM, all from different cities, and have searched thousands of mint and proof sets

Circulation.......ND 85% WD 15%
 Uncirculated sets....ND 20%.. WD 80%
 Uncirculated Baby....ND 15%.....WD 85%
 Fist Day Covers.....ND (almost impossible, but they do exist, 2 sighted, all the rest are wide date)
 Proof Ordinary... Have never seen a WD in a set.

So this means out of a total production.

Ordinary production...20,876,100...ND 17,744,685...WD 3,131,415
 Mint Sets...Unc...............91,684...ND 18,336...WD 73,348
 Mint Sets..Baby Unc........37,348...ND 5,602...WD 31,746

Total....21,005,132........ND...17,470,788...WD 3,236,509

Happy hunting
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: runway on July 16, 2015, 09:56:53 PM
PNC with narrow date are what PNC collectors chase
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: robbiegal on July 16, 2015, 09:58:16 PM
so - the wide date in the circulation or business strike is actually the scarcer one?
we bought the WD in uncs (just for albums) but we were told that it was a bit of a furphy and nothing all that special ... hum not so eh?

bottom one is the wide date (from the link)

(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10035/50c941.jpg)

Quote from: 'runway' pid='75693' dateline='1437049613'PNC with narrow date are what PNC collectors chase

is a PNC a first day cover?
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: runway on July 16, 2015, 10:13:35 PM
PNCs aren't FDCs you know that Maree
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: matttheriley on July 17, 2015, 04:21:40 AM
QuotePNCs aren't FDCs you know that Maree

LOL, What the heck is a PNC then?
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Nevol on July 17, 2015, 07:54:10 AM
Postal Numismatic Cover - ie Like a FDC but has the added attraction of a Coin.
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: robbiegal on July 17, 2015, 08:04:07 AM
oh crikey
confusing

whose Maree?
Title: RE: CAN SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!
Post by: Pedro on July 17, 2015, 08:10:23 AM
Digging into the "archives" these are the numbers of sales on Ebay for the 1994 uncirculated mint set varieties over the past few years:

(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10078/1994_Mint_sets_comparative_Ebay_sales.png)

A word of caution: I have noticed occasionally (and from personal experience) that Ebay sellers don't necessarily recognise when they are selling a wide date set.

However, overall wide date sets have been well outsold by normal date sets.  

Pedro