Australian-Coins Forum

Numismatic Discussion => Coin and Banknote Grading => Topic started by: jrg_from_oz on March 16, 2015, 12:32:41 AM

Title: PCGS Grading - is this REALLY MS64?
Post by: jrg_from_oz on March 16, 2015, 12:32:41 AM
Am I the only one who thinks this coin doesn't come within a bull's roar of MS64? I can't see how it gets past EF45+ on the PCGS scale.

[attachment=3188]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1845-Queen-Victoria-Great-Britain-Silver-Sixpence-Six-Pence-6-D-Coin-PCGS-MS64/391082023824

John
Title: RE: PCGS Grading - is this REALLY MS64?
Post by: markn on March 16, 2015, 08:03:49 AM
PCGS have held that coin in their hands and called it MS64.  You have looked at pictures.  

Perhaps what you see as wear is strike weakness?
Title: RE: PCGS Grading - is this REALLY MS64?
Post by: jrg_from_oz on March 16, 2015, 09:36:25 AM
Mark, I'm more inclined towards careless handling and storage than striking weakness.

The coin hasn't circulated - that is clear from the absence of any marks at all in the field or on the cheek.

But it does have wear on the high points, as if the coin has been rubbed for a long time on a slightly abrasive surface. I hesitate to use the term "cabinet friction", because it looks to be more than that. And that wear, to me, says it cannot be "mint state".  

In any case, if I had bought that coin sight unseen and based solely on the PCGS MS64 grade, I'd be mighty disappointed.
Title: RE: PCGS Grading - is this REALLY MS64?
Post by: markn on March 16, 2015, 05:08:21 PM
Quote from: 'jrg_from_oz' pid='69125' dateline='1426460785'Mark, I'm more inclined towards careless handling and storage than striking weakness.

The coin hasn't circulated - that is clear from the absence of any marks at all in the field or on the cheek.

But it does have wear on the high points, as if the coin has been rubbed for a long time on a slightly abrasive surface. I hesitate to use the term "cabinet friction", because it looks to be more than that. And that wear, to me, says it cannot be "mint state".  

In any case, if I had bought that coin sight unseen and based solely on the PCGS MS64 grade, I'd be mighty disappointed.

Sorry but I completely disagree with your conclusions based on that image.  The only thing you can say for certain is that the image is a scan, it's over-exposed, and the white balance is completely off.  Based on all of those factors I fail to see how you can draw any conclusions as to the grade or condition of the coin.
Title: RE: PCGS Grading - is this REALLY MS64?
Post by: emu666 on March 16, 2015, 05:13:34 PM
Looks OK. Based on my experience, under different light  the toning is probably quite pretty.

(http://images.pcgs.com/SecurePlus/31792960_large.jpg)
Title: RE: PCGS Grading - is this REALLY MS64?
Post by: markn on March 16, 2015, 05:32:44 PM
*snap* beat me to it emu666.  Looks a lot different to the crappy eBay scan.
Title: RE: PCGS Grading - is this REALLY MS64?
Post by: Fordprefect on March 16, 2015, 07:04:10 PM
And the coin plucked out of the Photo's of the slabs
taken under different lighting.

(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv160/ford_prefect/ACF%20Odd%20Stuff/UK_Vic_6D_Obv-crop-horz_zpsld5w5owq.jpg)
Title: RE: PCGS Grading - is this REALLY MS64?
Post by: drakesterling on March 16, 2015, 08:11:59 PM
As markn said earlier, two experts from PCGS who grade coins 40 hours a week have examined the coin in the flesh, while all of us have only seen images. It'd be hard to say that we can grade more accurately with only images than can two PCGS professionals with the real coin in front of them.

Humans are visual creatures, but the urge to second-guess the PCGS grade because of bad images must be resisted!