I notice quite a few of the IAG benchmark coins have been submitted to PCGS for crossover and now up for auction with Universal Coin Company.
1919 Australian KGV Half Penny - PCGS MS65+RD
1920 Australian KGV Half Penny - PCGS MS65RD
1924 Australian KGV Half Penny - PCGS MS64+RB
1927 Australian KGV Half Penny - PCGS MS65RB
1928 Australian KGV Half Penny - PCGS MS64RB
1929 Australian KGV Half Penny - PCGS MS65+RB
1945(P) Australian KGVI Half Penny - PCGS MS64BN
1946(P) Australian KGVI Half Penny - PCGS MS63RB
1931 Australian KGV Penny - PCGS MS64RB
1944(P) Australian KGVI Penny - PCGS MS64RB
1952(P) Australian KGVI Penny - PCGS MS64+RB
1953(P) Australian QEII Penny - PCGS MS64RB
1956(M) Australian QEII Penny - PCGS MS64+RD
1940 Australian KGVI Threepence - PCGS MS64
1941 Australian KGVI Threepence - PCGS MS65
1949 Australian KGVI Threepence - PCGS MS65
1952 Australian KGVI Threepence - PCGS MS66
1910 Australian KGV Sixpence - PCGS MS64
1940 Australian KGVI Sixpence - PCGS MS65
1942-S Australian KGVI Sixpence - PCGS MS65
1942 Australian KGVI Sixpence - PCGS MS64
1913 Australian KGV Shilling - PCGS MS65
1927 Australian KGV Shilling - PCGS MS66
1935 Australian KGV Shilling - PCGS MS65
1919-M Australian KGV Florin - PCGS MS65
1922 Australian KGV Florin - PCGS MS65
1938 Australian KGVI Florin - PCGS MS64
Comparing the two and it looks like most NGC coins have crossed lower, with a couple half grade higher
Half Penny: half grade lower - 1, 1 grade lower - 3, half grade higher - 2,
Penny: 1 grade lower - 2, half grade lower - 2
Three Pence: 1 grade lower - 1, same grade - 3
Six Pence: 1 grade lower - 3, same grade - 1
Shilling: 1 grade lower - 1, same grade - 3
Florin: same grade - 3
Here's the link to my spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jh_9RNEzHBn26o3W1IHyFfOU_G4RVB3eDnYgdeZjrM0/edit?usp=sharing
It would be interesting to see how the final auction results compared. Universal Coin's estimates seems higher than IAG's.
Yes some really nice coins getting around ATM but also nice prices :swoon: but for some that only get put up for sale once in a blue moon I can understand why :good:
Wow, good pick up, right on the ball there. Amazing what you can see when you look outside the box. Awesome work on the spreadsheet. Thanks for sharing.
Hey OCC noble have some nice old coins up for grabs ATM, here's a link to just the proof and patterns, suss out some of the other thing as well :good:
http://www.noble.com.au/auctions/search/?sale=108&p=1&c=5815
and if your into errors there some nice one's here but wish they put pic's up for all the coins :(
http://www.noble.com.au/auctions/search/?sale=108&p=1&c=5782
Well done there Kchan... good work mate !
In the last few years I have done over 20 NGC coins crossovers... Only 1 coin has graded higher.. normally silver cross over 1 lower and copper coins up to 2 grades lower ..
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='69085' dateline='1426411642'Well done there Kchan... good work mate !
In the last few years I have done over 20 NGC coins crossovers... Only 1 coin has graded higher.. normally silver cross over 1 lower and copper coins up to 2 grades lower ..
I'm guessing they sussed out which coins might have a chance at even cross over or they bid based on a lower grade value. Those high grade florins are really good buying by Universal and if they get near their value then they will be making 100% on their investment. Thanks Kchan for the effort.
No worries. :ok: It will be interesting to see what prices are realised when the same coins are now in PCGS slabs.
The thing to be aware of also is that Universal's buyer premium is 15% while IAG's is close to 20%. The IAG auction also had technical issues so probably had impact on the prices perhaps????
Only time will tell.... not long to wait ....
I have just received the grade for the 1942-d threepence from the benchmark collection from Pcgs. The coin graded ms65 which is one point lower than what Ngc had graded it (ms66). I am still very happy with this result!
Well done mate...
Did anyone's Benchmark coins upgrade?
Eric
Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='69411' dateline='1426897547'Did anyone's Benchmark coins upgrade?
Eric
Now I understand the sound of silence.. lol,
sorry, just had to put in there
I think that there is some chatter this thread - PCGS submissions, Grading Opinions
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='69452' dateline='1426934266'I think that there is some chatter this thread - PCGS submissions, Grading Opinions
Its a fair question and would be great to hear if someone did have an upgrade. I just meant to be funny not a smartass. With just what I have read and seen lately it seems that they go down 1. Just makes you think is that a pre-determined result when regrading a slabbed coin by a different company. Why wouldn't you try to make the it clear your grading is more accurate and you are the best? Do people remove the coin before sending or does it still have 'NGC' please lower me a grade written all over it? Surely not as some come back equal but im sure they have to be spot on to come back equal? ?
Quote from: 'Oldcoinchest' pid='69453' dateline='1426935156'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='69452' dateline='1426934266'I think that there is some chatter this thread - PCGS submissions, Grading Opinions
Its a fair question and would be great to hear if someone did have an upgrade. I just meant to be funny not a smartass. With just what I have read and seen lately it seems that they go down 1. Just makes you think is that a pre-determined result when regrading a slabbed coin by a different company. Why wouldn't you try to make the it clear your grading is more accurate and you are the best? Do people remove the coin before sending or does it still have 'NGC' please lower me a grade written all over it? Surely not as some come back equal but im sure they have to be spot on to come back equal? ?
All my NGC coins were out of the holder when I got them graded with PCGS. Most coins go down by 1 or 2 point ... very rarely, it can go up by 1 or so point as well ( Happened to me once).
sorry I am way out of my depth to be even commenting here
it is all a bit smoke and mirrors for a nuptie like moi
there are others here to are in the know - as reflected in Ausproofs post just now
I cracked out a couple of NGC coins to send to PCGS but wont know the results
for a couple of months.It will be interesting
My understanding is that less than 1 in 200 NGC coins upgrade at swap over. I think that is for coins sent in the NGC slab and not cracked out.
I would HOPE that if a coin was sent to PCGS in a slab that was done by an alternative grader that the coin would be removed from the slab and no information regarding its previous grade given to the PCGS graders.
Would this be too much to expect?
(Please excuse me if I have missed some important step in the grading process).
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='69608' dateline='1427185576'I would HOPE that if a coin was sent to PCGS in a slab that was done by an alternative grader that the coin would be removed from the slab and no information regarding its previous grade given to the PCGS graders.
Would this be too much to expect?
(Please excuse me if I have missed some important step in the grading process).
I believe the holders are placed in special holders which cover up the original grade and grading company (you may be able to tell based on the plastic style?) so the previous grade doesn't impact on the final determination. This is the case at PCGS and NGC as far as I know however I assume ANACS would also use the same process.
Ahhhh ...... OMF ....... such wisdom from youth.
Thank you ...... that all makes perfect sense.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='69610' dateline='1427186754'Ahhhh ...... OMF ....... such wisdom from youth.
Thank you ...... that all makes perfect sense.
Anytime :thank_you:
:laugh2: (You do realise that this now means that ........ next time 3 or more of us identify you at a coin show you are obliged to buy us coffee ...... or beer if available). :laugh2: (failure to do so will result in complete deslabination of your collection and a DOS attack on your web site). (ppss: Joke Joyce).
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='69613' dateline='1427187761':laugh2: (You do realise that this now means that ........ next time 3 or more of us identify you at a coin show you are obliged to buy us coffee ...... or beer if available). :laugh2: (failure to do so will result in complete deslabination of your collection and a DOS attack on your web site). (ppss: Joke Joyce).
Haha anytime mate we can all have our fair share of coin yarns and coin jokes :D
:laugh2:
You're a good sport OMF.
I am sure you will go far.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='69615' dateline='1427188272':laugh2:
You're a good sport OMF.
I am sure you will go far.
Thanks it means a lot to me :)
Finally getting Eric to send my 1934 Florin off to PCGS to crossover. NGC MS65.
Thanks Fr45h3R for taking these sexy photos at Petersham Coin Show today. :good:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11226/1934_Australian_Florin.jpg)
Nice coin, looks like it'll cross from the photo.
I agree it should cross and it looks like it should eventually develop a lovely pheripheral tone.
I hope so too! But those who looked at it in the flesh thinks MS64. And grudgingly said probably MS65 after I asked them 3 times! :P This is getting sent with a minimum grade of MS64.
OK I have updated the spreadsheet after UCC auction.
The 1952(P) Penny graded NGC MS65 was sold in IAG auction for $215 incl BP. It was knocked down by 1 grade by PCGS to MS64 and went for $2128 incl BP. :shock: I thought I had made a mistake and went back to check - I think they are the same coin since both had the same distinct lovely rainbow toning.
Others like the half pennies that do crossed over same grade, the prices realised was more than doubled. And the 3d as well.
Of the ex-Benchmark coins that was sold in UCC auction, total realised + 15% BP was $74.5k. Those same coins realised almost 37k including 19.25% BP in IAG. Not bad isn't it?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jh_9RNEzHBn26o3W1IHyFfOU_G4RVB3eDnYgdeZjrM0/edit?usp=sharing
Gosh how I wish my florin will cross now!!! :beg:
Let me know if I've done something dodgy.
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='70013' dateline='1427888023'OK I have updated the spreadsheet after UCC auction.
The 1952(P) Penny graded NGC MS65 was sold in IAG auction for $215 incl BP. It was knocked down by 1 grade by PCGS to MS64 and went for $2128 incl BP. :shock: I thought I had made a mistake and went back to check - I think they are the same coin since both had the same distinct lovely rainbow toning.
Others like the half pennies that do crossed over same grade, the prices realised was more than doubled. And the 3d as well.
Of the ex-Benchmark coins that was sold in UCC auction, total realised + 15% BP was $74.5k. Those same coins realised almost 37k including 19.25% BP in IAG. Not bad isn't it?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jh_9RNEzHBn26o3W1IHyFfOU_G4RVB3eDnYgdeZjrM0/edit?usp=sharing
Gosh how I wish my florin will cross now!!! :beg:
Let me know if I've done something dodgy.
The '52P was a 64+
So it's only 1/2 point difference.
Oooops sorry about that. I have updated it to reflect the few that were +.
A couple of the half pennies actually went up half a grade then! :)
Nice work. There were quite a few that didn't sell at the UCC auction going by the blank fields in the prices realised columns. All things considered not a bad earn.
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='70028' dateline='1427932968'Oooops sorry about that. I have updated it to reflect the few that were +.
A couple of the half pennies actually went up half a grade then! :)
I would like to say great job on your analysis of the benchmark collection. I think it falls more or less in line with generally thinking that PCGS and NGC are close graders. However, some coins "generally" go down a grade / half grade when crossing over from NGC to PCGS.
My question to everyone ... does the population report play any factor in how they position the coins for grading or is it "a pure" grade? And surely earlier graded coins might not be up to the standard of newer graded coins based purely on knowledge. So many factors! Learning never ends. But I guess that is why we purchase the coin not the "label" (envy). However, I am assuming some people love label envy because of the set registry and the price they seem to pull!
It's a pure, technical grade. They claim to implement market grading but they don't seem to do this for world coins.
Grading can be done independently of the coin type so the learning factor is minimal as they're already expert graders. The key to learning to grade regardless of coin type is to analyse the surface quality, by considering this factor your grades become independent of strike detail and thus far more accurate.
PCGS should do something like this in Australia
http://www.pcgs.com/store/p-40-pcgs-collector-education-course-coin-grading-101.aspx
http://www.pcgs.com/store/p-41-pcgs-collector-education-course-coin-grading-102.aspx
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='71467' dateline='1430177366'PCGS should do something like this in Australia
http://www.pcgs.com/store/p-40-pcgs-collector-education-course-coin-grading-101.aspx
http://www.pcgs.com/store/p-41-pcgs-collector-education-course-coin-grading-102.aspx
Kchan there are condensed seminars on youtube which I have compiled here for easy reference
http://www.royalnumismatics.com/guide-to-third-party-grading.html
Quote from: 'oh my florin' pid='71468' dateline='1430177671'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='71467' dateline='1430177366'PCGS should do something like this in Australia
http://www.pcgs.com/store/p-40-pcgs-collector-education-course-coin-grading-101.aspx
http://www.pcgs.com/store/p-41-pcgs-collector-education-course-coin-grading-102.aspx
Kchan there are condensed seminars on youtube which I have compiled here for easy reference
http://www.royalnumismatics.com/guide-to-third-party-grading.html
Thanks for that. I have notice them before from your website. :good:
I also have this book from eBay...
http://www.amazon.com/Official-Grading-Counterfeit-Detection-Edition/dp/0375720502
I think what's lacking for me is seeing practical examples. A class where you get to handle coins and have differences pointed out to you between examples would be useful.
QuoteI think what's lacking for me is seeing practical examples. A class where you get to handle coins and have differences pointed out to you between examples would be useful.
Get some of your coins in different grades slabbed by PCGS and you will have "On Hand" examples :good:
I have a set of florins from MS60 to MS66. But still good to go through a show-and-tell of each one.
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='71509' dateline='1430221458'I have a set of florins from MS60 to MS66. But still good to go through a show-and-tell of each one.
then why did you ask this?
QuoteI think what's lacking for me is seeing practical examples. A class where you get to handle coins and have differences pointed out to you between examples would be useful.
Ok so even though I have a set - and you can tell the difference between each grade. There are lots of times when I compare a coin side by side against them and get it wrong. There's something I am not paying attention to. If someone can go through examples, and explain why - that would be helpful for me.
In other words, the grading set provides me with examples of an expert grader's grade. I am interested in understanding the thought process that led to that grade.
Other things like pointing signs between wear and weak strike like lustre would be helpful.
Am I approaching this too scientifically?
For instance... http://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=1976&page=77&highlight=Noble - comparing it with examples from my grading set I couldn't tell it was a MS63.
Come to my table at the Petersham show kchan. I can show you a few coins of the same design in different grades and can point out why they're in different grades.
Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='71521' dateline='1430231607'Come to my table at the Petersham show kchan. I can show you a few coins of the same design in different grades and can point out why they're in different grades.
Thanks Eric. I will be there. Look forward to having a chat with you. :)
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='71520' dateline='1430227573'Ok so even though I have a set - and you can tell the difference between each grade. There are lots of times when I compare a coin side by side against them and get it wrong. There's something I am not paying attention to. If someone can go through examples, and explain why - that would be helpful for me.
In other words, the grading set provides me with examples of an expert grader's grade. I am interested in understanding the thought process that led to that grade.
Other things like pointing signs between wear and weak strike like lustre would be helpful.
Am I approaching this too scientifically?
For instance... http://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=1976&page=77&highlight=Noble - comparing it with examples from my grading set I couldn't tell it was a MS63.
Don't worry Kchan your not alone in having this issue. I am in the same position when looking at proof coins sometimes.
Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='71524' dateline='1430254506'Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='71521' dateline='1430231607'Come to my table at the Petersham show kchan. I can show you a few coins of the same design in different grades and can point out why they're in different grades.
Thanks Eric. I will be there. Look forward to having a chat with you. :)
The Drake Sterling stand will be at the next Petersham, but I don't believe Eric will be.
-rob
Quote from: 'Fr45h3R' pid='71558' dateline='1430297501'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='71524' dateline='1430254506'Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='71521' dateline='1430231607'Come to my table at the Petersham show kchan. I can show you a few coins of the same design in different grades and can point out why they're in different grades.
Thanks Eric. I will be there. Look forward to having a chat with you. :)
The Drake Sterling stand will be at the next Petersham, but I don't believe Eric will be.
-rob
No worries. I quite enjoy going to the show anyway.
My 1934 Benchmark florin result came back from PCGS crossover. Down one grade to MS64. Damn was really dreaming of MS65. :)
Still a very good result. . Welldone!
Thanks Ausproof. Yeah it's a good price when you look at bluesheet values. MS63 or lower would be bad and so I requested a floor at MS63 in the crossover submission.
Quote from: 'Fr45h3R' pid='71558' dateline='1430297501'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='71524' dateline='1430254506'Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='71521' dateline='1430231607'Come to my table at the Petersham show kchan. I can show you a few coins of the same design in different grades and can point out why they're in different grades.
Thanks Eric. I will be there. Look forward to having a chat with you. :)
The Drake Sterling stand will be at the next Petersham, but I don't believe Eric will be.
-rob
Yes, that's right. My coins will be at Petersham, but I won't be unfortunately. However, Rob has kindly volunteered to fill my shoes and he's just as keen to chat as I am.
Well done kchan :good:
Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='72173' dateline='1431356623'Quote from: 'Fr45h3R' pid='71558' dateline='1430297501'Quote from: 'kchan1111' pid='71524' dateline='1430254506'Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='71521' dateline='1430231607'Come to my table at the Petersham show kchan. I can show you a few coins of the same design in different grades and can point out why they're in different grades.
Thanks Eric. I will be there. Look forward to having a chat with you. :)
The Drake Sterling stand will be at the next Petersham, but I don't believe Eric will be.
-rob
Yes, that's right. My coins will be at Petersham, but I won't be unfortunately. However, Rob has kindly volunteered to fill my shoes and he's just as keen to chat as I am.
:scared: Big shoes to fill mate, and does he get the rest of your cloths so he looks the part :angel: Ya lucky the old have a chat Rob is on the job holding the fort down :beach: So come on people go buy a heap of coins and make Rob look really good, I would if I was there :friends:
who's Rob ?
not me anyways
No not you Rob, Rob Barat is Eric's helper at the coin shows..hope I spelt it right :) He's pretty cool but don't tell him I said that :winkextra:
ta
is he a member here?
Fr45 is Rob :)
We have too many Rob's, Robbiegal, Robster, Rob Barat and probably a few more here as well but not as many as our Steve, Stevo, Stephen or Steven as there must be about 100 of them :winkextra:
But lucky only one AJ :blink:
QuoteBut lucky only one AJ
Thank God for that! Sorry, AJ, could not resist that.
:taunt:
:laugh2: bite me :P
don't you start on me RG, aren't we mates mate :cray:
:acute: and you could have resisted if you really wanted too Jeff..if you really loved me you would have :cray:
:laugh2:
a bit off topic but the universal coin auction just finished .
I picked up a few nice items :)