I have just received some Verdi-Care [thanks Nancy] and am keen to try it.
So, I have sorted out some coins from my scrap tin to try it with.
I think it will be interesting to share my results so I am posting "before" pictures here.
I have also had a think how Verdi-Care works and had an idea for a product I have (for a completely different purpose) that possibly could have a similar effect. So, I have two groups of coins to treat. I have no idea really if the other treatment will do anything (or completely strip the patina) but I will soon know! I tried to make both groups as similar as possible.
All coins have been cleaned with water, acetone and then xylene.
The brown stains on the top 2¢ in each group are rust -from a shed find; obviously a water leak and some steel object(s) sitting on the coins. I gave several hundred of these a hit with the ultrasonic cleaner with water and a drop of detergent. Changed the water several times until it was clear. Some, the rust completely lifted; others were like these two.
So, here goes...
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630152340_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630152371_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630152405_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630152440_o.jpg)
Wish me luck,
Jeff
PS. Not another secret potion! Won't these idiots ever learn?
Well, treatment done.
A drop on each coin and wipe over the surface with a cotton bud.
Leave 5 minutes, a poke with a toothpick to worst areas and leave another 5 minutes. Pat dry with a paper towel.
I will leave them 24 hours to fully dry before taking more photos.
The cotton tip discoloured (more with the Verdi-Care than the other) indicating something was being removed.
Subjectively the coins do look better (again the Verdi-Care seems better) but, probably some residual moisture and, wetting crummy coins is a sure way of (temporarily) improving appearance.
Come back in 24 hours and see the result.
Jeff
Will follow your project with interest JeffH.!
Interesting.
I have always just used olive oil. Did a 1923 1/2d that took me over 2 years. Very interested in the outcome
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='4482' dateline='1354967155'I have always just used olive oil. Did a 1923 1/2d that took me over 2 years. Very interested in the outcome
As far as I am aware olive oil contains acid.
I assume that olive oil is used on "ancients" to get rid of the build up of detritus from being buried for centuries.
I don't consider using olive oil on modern (19th centaury and upwards) coins to be a good practice.
I have put a few old coppers in olive oil for a while and YES they do look better but they also don't look quite "Kosher", Veiwed under a USB gizmo where the verdigis has been removed there is evidence of pitting.
My best advice is simply don't buy nasty green coins because at the end of the day you can't turn a pig's ear into a silk purse :good:
Well, both treatments had an effect;
•Green/blue verdigris no longer visible.
•Dark areas where verdigris was. Almost invisible for very light verdigris but much more noticeable on heavily infected areas.
•Noticeable scale where verdigris was heaviest -only to be expected, you can't expect to restore an already badly damaged surface.
•Coins now have a "sheen" (wet looking appearance). Looks slightly unnatural but not unattractive.
•Overall patina of coins seems to be very slightly lighter.
•No affect on rust stains. I was hoping but not really expecting with them.
•Verdi-Care, I think, has improved the "eye appeal" slightly more.
I am giving them a soak in water now, to remove any residue, will let them dry completely, and report back tomorrow.
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630395318_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630395361_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630395396_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630395425_o.jpg)
Jeff
PS. Shane, I will be over your way next Saturday. Would like to meet you. What are your opening hours?
An interim report from rinsing the coins;
•When wet they have rather a slippery feel (more so the second treatment than the Verdi-Care).
•As soon as I patted them dry some areas of blue/green verdigris re-appeared! Does seem, though, to be rather soft and yields to a toothpick. Looks rather dry and scaly underneath these patches.
Jeff
Bad Thad on CCF is the developer of VerdiCare.
Instructions for the use of Verdi-Care can be found here:
http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/files/images/Verdi-Care-Instructions.pdf
I would like to draw attention to one line in those instructions:
"However, rinsing with water or other solvents after treatment is NOT needed or recommended".
The original product was VerdiGone and rinsing with Distilled water was recommended, but I think rinsing off the VerdiCare may remove the protective coating from the surface.
I'll have to re-read all Bad Thad's relevant comments and recommendations on CCF. There is a plethora of information, so it might take me a while. Watch this space. :angel:
You're correct Nancy. I missed that. Being the cynic I am I think that, maybe, it is not recommended as it might reverse some of the effect of masking the verdigris.
FAQ's say;
"Q: Can VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ be removed?
A: The product is water-soluble and 99.99+% of it can be removed using water. The ReAcT2â,,¢ layer is semi-permanent, just a molecule thick and invisible; it will remain on the surface after a water rinse. However, it can be removed with weakly acidic solutions (not recommended)."
and
"Q: What is ReAcT2â,,¢?
A: ReAcT2â,,¢ is a modern-day, state of the art, chemical compound that reacts with all metals to form a transparent, semi-permanent, anti-corrosion, protective layer on the coins surface. It is so safe and effective on a coin’s surface that the US Mint uses the exact same chemical technology."
I was taking my cure from that. Never mind, I have another step planned tomorrow.
Jeff
I have found a bit more info:
FAQ: http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/files/images/Verdi-Care-FAQ.pdf
The ReAcT2â,,¢ will form a protective surface barrier to provide life-long protection from toning and corrosion.
Q: Does VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ leave a residue?
A: YES! The 2-stage corrosion protection system and surface conditioners will remain on the coin
surface after application. The surface may feel “slick†(but less slick than oil), rinsing with water and/or
acetone reduces this effect. Rinsing after a full drying period of 24 hours per side will remove 99.99% of
the product from the surface (not recommended).
Tip! Experiment on test coins. Try very lightly rinsing with distilled water and/or acetone after
application. This will remove most of the surface conditioners but still leave behind ReAcT2â,,¢ for
corrosion protection. Experiment to get the look you’re after!
Q: Do I need to rinse off or neutralise my coin after treating with VERDI-CAREâ,,¢?
A: NO! VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ is not a dip/cleaner and is designed to remain on the coin after conservation.
Rinsing is not recommended or required. VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ is designed to be safe and gentle for longterm storage.
For best results the product should remain on the coin for its life to protect and enhance the surfaces.
Other test results can be seen here:
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=62434&whichpage=1
BadThad often mentions in this Topic that he rinses with (distilled) water, acetone and occasionally Xylene, then dries with Canned Air,
so that is clearly inconsistent with the instruction sheet. He does not always say distilled water, but I stopped on page 17 (of 27).
More test results by other people:
http://coretj.yolasite.com/verdi-care_tests.php
http://www.cointalk.com/t47318/
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='4496' dateline='1355011915'I have found a bit more info:
FAQ: http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/files/images/Verdi-Care-FAQ.pdf
The ReAcT2â,,¢ will form a protective surface barrier to provide life-long protection from toning and corrosion.
Q: Does VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ leave a residue?
A: YES! The 2-stage corrosion protection system and surface conditioners will remain on the coin
surface after application. The surface may feel “slick†(but less slick than oil), rinsing with water and/or
acetone reduces this effect. Rinsing after a full drying period of 24 hours per side will remove 99.99% of
the product from the surface (not recommended).
Tip! Experiment on test coins. Try very lightly rinsing with distilled water and/or acetone after
application. This will remove most of the surface conditioners but still leave behind ReAcT2â,,¢ for
corrosion protection. Experiment to get the look you’re after!
Q: Do I need to rinse off or neutralise my coin after treating with VERDI-CAREâ,,¢?
A: NO! VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ is not a dip/cleaner and is designed to remain on the coin after conservation.
Rinsing is not recommended or required. VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ is designed to be safe and gentle for longterm storage.
For best results the product should remain on the coin for its life to protect and enhance the surfaces.
Other test results can be seen here:
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=62434&whichpage=1
BadThad often mentions in this Topic that he rinses with (distilled) water, acetone and occasionally Xylene, then dries with Canned Air,
so that is clearly inconsistent with the instruction sheet. He does not always say distilled water, but I stopped on page 17 (of 27).
More test results by other people:
http://coretj.yolasite.com/verdi-care_tests.php
http://www.cointalk.com/t47318/
Xylene is dangerous - why risk your health by using this chemical on coins that honestly, are not work the associated risks to 'conserve'? Museums etc would more likely use fume hoods and have safety equipment if using these dangerous chemicals. Honestly, i reckon don't go there - a bunch of rubbish coins are really not worth it.
How interesting. A water rinse has returned most of the verdigris! More so with the verdi-Care than the other treatment. That does suggest my thinking, when selecting an alternate to trial, was along the right lines.
They are now all having a 12 hour soak in sealed containers (followed by a 12 hour dry-out period) to see if that makes any difference.
Jeff
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630683285_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630683351_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630683400_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630683458_o.jpg)
I had read badthad saying that the product really isnt meant for hard, encrusted verdigris such as that but more so for small spots that are crusty yet.
Quotethe product really isnt meant for hard, encrusted verdigris
As I said these coins are from my scrap tin and I don't expect miracles.
My aim is to establish what may be possible. So, a range of poor coins to see what degree of change can be affected.
I think the test has to extend beyond what is promised of the product to establish what it's limits are.
Jeff
Jeff, thankyou for going to the trouble to do something a lot of us have contemplated but put in the 'too hard basket.' I know I have at least 200 copper coins with the dreaded 'green' acne, still sitting in isolation awaiting a miracle. Perhaps we could melt them all down and make our own commemorative coins.!! Still following with interest.!
I can remember when I threw, yes threw six or seven ice cream containers out onto the Sunshine Garbage dump that were full of half pennies and pennies that I had detected over the years. If onlu I still had them. Many of the coins had verdigree on them.
Well, the end of the road?
Following are final pictures. The verdigris patches don't look (to the eye) quite as green as they appear in the photos -more grey to black.
Verdi-Care does seem to make a slight, subjective improvement in the appearance of verdigris affected coins. Where the verdigris is only very light it looks to be removed; where it is heavier, a dark stain remains. Where verdigris is very heavy the appearance is rather dark and scaling is still very obvious.
Verdi-care has no apparent affect on other marks/stains/discolouration.
Is it worth using? Possibly on an otherwise good coin with only light verdigris. If only because it may halt the future progress of the verdigris.
My opinion is that is removes little, if any, verdigris. I think it masks it, similarly to wetting it. An optical illusion, if you will.
I will put these coins away and have a look at them every now and then. If there looks to be any change I will report back.
The other product I used seems to produce a similar result -maybe slightly less. Picture follows.
Now I am off to try on some nickel-copper coins.
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630963081_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630963141_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630963185_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630963238_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/630963268_o.jpg)
Jeff
Well a few nickel/copper coins now that had green patches.
First photo of each pair is after cleaning with acetone and xylene. Next is after 12 hour soak with Verdi-care followed by 12 hour dry off.
Results look to be marginal to me. I think the acetone and xylene had more effect than the V-C. Pity I didn't think to get pictures before I hit them with acetone.
Now, where did I put those old, brass English threepences? I won't risk it with my brass Fiji coins.
Jeff
Do you see the cud on the Bradman?
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/631556402_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/631556437_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/631556472_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/5/2/0/6/webimg/631556503_o.jpg)
QuoteDo you see the cud on the Bradman?
On the Rev under the 2? Yep. Maybe even under the N as well. Somewhere else, Nuh. :angel:
That's it Nancy.
It is already heading your way.:ok:
Jeff
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='4627' dateline='1355380965'That's it Nancy. It is already heading your way.:ok: Jeff
Thanks! :yahoo: I :give_heart: errors!
Sorry to necro this thread, however I'm now revisiting my old verdigris infused coins and am wondering what to do with them.
Ultimately, the aim will be to either polish these coins using conventional copper polish and admire them for the error value or let the verdigris take over the coin completely, in which case it's not much good for anything at all.
I'm not going to bother with xylene as I don't have capacity to deal with it properly.
None of the verdigris coated coins are anything special, so their only value at the moment would be for error identification....hmmm.
I could be persuaded either way. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any compelling suggestions one way or the other?
I've been thinking along the same lines as well, I'm just going through looking for my doubles and cleaning those up error or no error. I would like to tidy up some of the die crack pennies but like you I'm unsure on what to do in that department lol.
Matt
Quote from: 'coxsp' pid='14808' dateline='1368576094'Sorry to necro this thread, however I'm now revisiting my old verdigris infused coins and am wondering what to do with them.
Ultimately, the aim will be to either polish these coins using conventional copper polish and admire them for the error value or let the verdigris take over the coin completely, in which case it's not much good for anything at all.
I'm not going to bother with xylene as I don't have capacity to deal with it properly.
None of the verdigris coated coins are anything special, so their only value at the moment would be for error identification....hmmm.
I could be persuaded either way. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any compelling suggestions one way or the other?
Try soaking in WD40.
This will help get rid of green stuff and gunky grime.
I would recommend this for cheap bronze coins only.
Better quality stuff is better left in general.
I have soaked a few coins in Olive Oil, followed by soapy water then a bath of Acetone. All have been early pennies for my own collection and all have been die cracks. Time consuming but worthwhile in my opinion. :idea:
Quote from: 'Robster' pid='14818' dateline='1368579381'I have soaked a few coins in Olive Oil
Have long for out of curiosity?
Some were pulled out after two weeks, some are still in after 4 weeks. Seeing as they are mainly real bad I figure I can't hurt them further.!!:dodgy:
Revisiting this thread with a question.
Has anyone tried Armorall?
I put some bad NZ halfpennies in a sealed container and sprayed them with Armorall. Then forgot about them for several months.
Quite surprised at the subjective improvement in appearance -no obvious green patches and the darkest patches seemed lighter (more evenly toned looking). so, they actually don't look too bad now.
Only time will tell if they retain the improved look or, if they start reverting to previous appearance.
Jeff
That's interesting. And the Armorall didn't give them orange-peel surfaces?
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='14822' dateline='1368581597'Quote from: 'Robster' pid='14818' dateline='1368579381'I have soaked a few coins in Olive Oil
Have long for out of curiosity?
I also soak Verdi. Coins in Olive Oil,i was told to do that by a dealer when i was at school in the 1960's so its been around as a remedy for a while.It can change the Patina depending on how acidic the oil is but it stops Verdi growing.
Normally a Month is long enough then a clean in water/mild soap and left to dry for a week or so.I currently have a badly pitted 1919 Double Dot soaking in oil,into the 3rd Month,i change the oil when its gets that green tinge.
The Armorall leaves the coin with an almost wet looking sheen (so does VerdiCare) but no strange surface appearance.
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='17711' dateline='1370912574'I also soak Verdi. Coins in Olive Oil,i was told to do that by a dealer when i was at school in the 1960's so its been around as a remedy for a while.It can change the Patina depending on how acidic the oil is but it stops Verdi growing.
Normally a Month is long enough then a clean in water/mild soap and left to dry for a week or so.I currently have a badly pitted 1919 Double Dot soaking in oil,into the 3rd Month,i change the oil when its gets that green tinge.
Yeah, I recently got to the stage of having green olive oil and I changed it. I can't remember where the verdigris even was on some of the coins I put in so I guess that's a success.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='17718' dateline='1370915882'The Armorall leaves the coin with an almost wet looking sheen (so does VerdiCare) but no strange surface appearance.
That's good to know. Might give it a go sometime.
In case you hadn't seen it, here's an interesting article by Verdi-Care's inventor:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-Remove-Verdigris-From-Coins-/10000000017991989/g.html
I've had two batches of coins soaking for months, one in WD-40 (well, RP-7... close enuf), the other in Acetone. After a wash in warm soapy water, neither batch was "fixed", though the verdigris may have been very slightly reduced.
One thing I'm wondering, since Verdigris is a chemical reaction, what if we were to store problem coins in Acetone? It won't damage the coins, and should prevent the reaction continuing, by excluding both air and water, no? Biggest hassle I can think of is a suitable container that won't let the Acetone evaporate away, or react with it.
Good thoughts, I have had a couple of pennies in some acetone for about 6 weeks, (in a screw capped glass jar and the acetone level has remained constant).