I was recently doing some research and came across a very interesting FAKE 1928 shilling scam back in the day. The authorities realised in 1930 when some banks had a lot of 1928 shillings laying around because they cashed them in for notes. They also found that the coins were 925 silver and some had even higher purities. As always they got to confident and greedy and got caught.
My question is does anyone have one or know of anyone who does. Im just wondering if many reached circulation if at all?
Here was some addition online info I found http://www.triton.vg/Manders.html
I have one. I looked for one for a long time and finally got one off of Peter Andrews. Peter is also the source of the images that you've seen in CAB articles about the coin.
The guts of the story (if I remember correctly) is a Chinese sailor was getting 1928 shillings minted in China, bringing them into Australia and then cashing them in at banks around Sydney for real shillings. The counterfeits were good silver, and often more than the sterling standard of the real coins.
Here's mine:
(http://www.australian-threepence.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/australia-1928-1s-forgery.jpg)
Very cool, Thanks for sharing. That's pretty much the story. I can see the emu on your coin also has the cud behind the leg. Im just a bit amazed in how good of a job they did in counterfeiting the coin
Quote from: 'Oldcoinchest' pid='65479' dateline='1421534294'Very cool, Thanks for sharing. That's pretty much the story. I can see the emu on your coin also has the cud behind the leg. Im just a bit amazed in how good of a job they did in counterfeiting the coin
Yes, it's a good counterfeit. Do you have any references as to which CAB/ACR's these coins were mentioned in? The indexes we have are wrong and I can't find the articles.
I used to have an old Coin Review magazine somewhere that features the story
darned if I know where it is now though
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='65481' dateline='1421539690'I used to have an old Coin Review magazine somewhere that features the story
darned if I know where it is now though
Yeah I have seen a few articles in ACR's and one or two in CAB about the coin. But never noted down where they were. The single reference to the forgery that I can find in Mick Vort Ronald's ACR index is wrong. I'd like to put an article up on the blog about it.
Be sure to put up a link if you do get time to do a blog item Mark.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='65492' dateline='1421544317'Be sure to put up a link if you do get time to do a blog item Mark.
PPH is on the case. She's found the article mentioned in MVR's index, he had the wrong volume listed. We're just trolling through CAB's and ACR's and books now and will get something up on the blog.
Crikey that was quick!
Yes, it's a good counterfeit. Do you have any references as to which CAB/ACR's these coins were mentioned in? The indexes we have are wrong and I can't find the articles.
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Yeah it was out of ACR August 1984 and written by Owen Fleming. I can scan and sent it to you if you want?
Quote from: 'Oldcoinchest' pid='65496' dateline='1421548687'Yes, it's a good counterfeit. Do you have any references as to which CAB/ACR's these coins were mentioned in? The indexes we have are wrong and I can't find the articles.
Yeah it was out of ACR August 1984 and written by Owen Fleming. I can scan and sent it to you if you want?
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Thanks, PPH found it herself :)
Here's a quick article I knocked up. It's probably riddled with typos because PPH hasn't had a chance to look at it yet. Thanks to emu66 for supply of a couple of images.
1928 Shilling Forgery Article (http://www.australian-threepence.com/collecting-coins/counterfeit-australian-1928-silver-shillings/)
Top article Mark!
Very good, Pictures are great!!
Both the 1928 shillings and the 1926-31 florins get a mention in Tom Hanley's classic book "Collecting Australian Coins", too.
If collectors are actively hunting for the fakes (and presumably turning down real coins) then it would seem that the fake coins are more collectable than the real coins. I was once outbid on a Maunders fake by another bidder who was prepared to pay 5X the price for a genuine Maunders than similar real florins were going for.
What is to stop someone adding a dot to the emus leg and tooling the grass of a real shilling to rip off an unsuspecting collector who thinks they are buying a genuine Shatow fake? Is there even a numismatic or legal term for faked counterfeits?
Making a "fake counterfeit" is, of course, perfectly legal, since the "genuine counterfeits" have no legal protection as coins. Deliberately selling a "fake counterfeit" as a "genuine counterfeit" would constitute fraud, but the onus of proof would be on the accuser, to prove the seller knew the item was not as described. This lack of legal protection will (or should, if humans were logical) cause prices for contemporary counterfeits to be lower than supply and demand alone would indicate. Still, paying more for fakes than for genuine coins has a long history. Pliny recorded people doing it in ancient Roman times.
If you want terminology to describe them by, I would suggest the accurate but rather unwieldy "modern replica of a contemporary counterfeit".
Quote from: 'Sapyx' pid='65553' dateline='1421651334'Both the 1928 shillings and the 1926-31 florins get a mention in Tom Hanley's classic book "Collecting Australian Coins", too.
Thank you, an interesting read.
In researching these coins it seems there's the real story and then what's written in "The Shadow" and the two are easily morphed together for a non-exact recount of events.
:scratch_one-s_head: Where does the term '1928 Shatow Shilling' come from?
Pretty sure Twibble and Maunders never knew each other.
http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/collection/database/?irn=300073&utm_source=api&utm_medium=api&utm_campaign=828f4d948d537cf
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16905648?
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/article16905648-3-001.jpg)
Interesting that this should be brought up again. We updated the original article on this shilling a couple of times last year. Including once when we managed to buy another of these "Swatow" 1928 shilling forgeries. Funnily enough we bought it as an "upset" error from a dealer's books but recognised it for what it really was. Even more funny was when we got it home we realised it was the VERY SAME coin that was used in the 2009 CAB article about these forgeries that Ian McConnelly wrote. Somewhere along the line the true origins of the coin were lost and it ended up being sold as something else completely!
Article can be found here (http://www.australian-coins.com/collecting-coins/counterfeit-australian-1928-silver-shillings/)
Quote from: 'markn' pid='84086' dateline='1454146783'Funnily enough we bought it as an "upset" error from a dealer's books
How upset is it? And is the other one upset or not?
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='84094' dateline='1454155348'Quote from: 'markn' pid='84086' dateline='1454146783'Funnily enough we bought it as an "upset" error from a dealer's books
How upset is it? And is the other one upset or not?
This example has a slight upset - about 5%.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/joseywales10/1928shilling_c%201_zps0olysvdj.jpg)
Ah Ha! So they're Swatow shillings, not Shatow. Now I get it.
Thanks Mark.
I found another one of these this weekend! While not actually worth anything it's always a rush to look for something and then find it!
(http://www.mycoinalog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/australia-1928-1s-forgery-2.jpg)
Very nice.
They are definately worth something to the right collector !
I'm still chasing one if and when you may want to unload it.
Not Shatow but post depression fake.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Early-Australian-One-Shilling-Forgery-/282285355239?hash=item41b984b0e7:g:jScAAOSw44BYSo7u
Picked this up in Brissy and have nearly convinced myself it could be one.
Has a blob below/near emu's leg, has a small cud down lower left of emu, grass is pretty mashed up, but under a magnification, lines can be seen.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10012/DSCF5702_edited_edited~0.jpg)
Is there, also anything/ difference in the left side bottom arrow near the 1.
And it's underweight. :)
The forgeries are weak eg the top of the 8 is feint.
And the spur should be visible.
Got a close up of the emu's leg ?
They are also usually upset about 1 o'clock. The grass doesn't look dotty enough. Sorry gnome I'm not convinced.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10012/DSCF5431_edited_edited_edited_edited_edited.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10012/DSCF5431_edited_edited_edited.jpg)
Have to agree with PPH.
Fair enough, :) like I said earlier, wasn't a 100% sold on it myself. Unfortunately can't get any clearer pics of it. Maybe the next one, :)
I wouldn't know a shatow from a real one, my only comment is that the star looks very clunky.
Ok one last picture then I'm done :) See the grass a bit better
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10012/DSCF5876_edited_edited_edited.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/d2oJ2ai.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zDjO2pl.jpg)
Appears to be two versions with one having extra grass and thicker - more like blobs.
Easier to see on Mark's example earlier in the thread.