Ok after having $100 stolen from AU post I was wondering how it works when buying and selling and who should wear the cost if lost because someone has too and it's not the post as they say they "we take no responsibility" and I have noticed more and more ebayers have put the same down that they take no responsibility for lost post, so my questions is for all including auction houses and the like that add a forth to the equation, who should pay, should it come back on the post, the middleman or seller or buyer, and remember the buyer has already missed out on the goods they've paid for. This I have been pondering for a while and I'm still no further ahead and think AU post should wear it if they lost it and not use the piss poor excuse of "no responsibility" :dodgy:
Ok a few more points to think about before people go off,
it makes me uncomfortable so why should I have to lie about what I am sending, I have enough trouble remembering with out lying and then I have to try and remember the lie :dash1:
Also should coins and banknotes be classed as currency, I think once someone is prepared to pay a premium the item should then be classed as collectable so should be able to claim.
There's more but I need a little rest as frying my brain to much thinking about different thing :blink:
Hi,
The rules say you cant post money. Now if it is worth more than face value, it is a collectable. Same as a Royal Doulten plate, but for peace of mind use registered and have insurance. AP are slowly pricing them selves out of business, there are already Courier companies that are cheaper. Once they lose their economy of scale, they will be like the Dodo. The other half got a parcel from a Courier company, picked it up on a Sunday at a local supermarket.
I think they would still have some legal responsibility, despite the disclaimers. They are being paid to deliver something, so they have to. I would look at general terms, as there may be something they cant get out of. Good luck with it.
Simple logic would suggest that if Australia Post fail to deliver that AP should cough because you have paid them to take the item to the desired destination and they have not kept their part of the bargain. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that!
As AP have no way of knowing what was in a parcel they would be at the mercy of unscrupulous people claiming for inflated or non-existent losses.
Senders have not control over AP so they shouldn't be responsible. Catch 22.
Registered post seems to be best option for added security but it is not perfect either. Could use an independent courier but they get pricier and I'm not sure what terms and conditions they have in relation to non-delivery.
Doesn't take into account what can happen in the mail service either with packages being bent out of shape from time to time.
All in all a bit of a lucky (or unlucky dip) with AP!
Pedro
Well the truth is that they will give you back the cost of the registration but that's it, been to fair trading who said they couldn't do anything so told me to try postal ombudsman and no good there so went to local member and still no luck :(
So food for thought and I suppose I'm luck it was only face of $100 and lucky it wasn't one of the $500 bundles I sent to Fulvio, if I lost that I think that would be enough to push me over the edge :cray:
I was totally honest all the way through and didn't want any extra for the cost of the error but just face value back and still got screwed so there's no point in being honest because good guys finish last and that's why I'm a loser, so I think I might have to get mean :winkextra:
Unfortunately there will always be people who will try to make easy money at the expense of others so
you should do what it takes to protect your posted items and if that means telling a lie about what you are posting
then that's what you have to do.No point in making your item a target as you can bet that it will pass through the
hands of a potential thief at some stage of its trip
Yeah true Stevo but I try and be honest and shouldn't have to lie and there wasn't anything written on it except for the name and address and it was in between cardboard to protect and so people like that couldn't easily see it was money :(
you can post money in australia so long as it is under $200 face and sent registered post
registered post doesn't cover banknotes
No it doesn't cover it but you are allowed to send currency with certain restrictions
"registered post doesn't cover banknotes "
Well, actually it does. Extract from Australia Post rule;
"In Registered Post or parcel services when used in conjunction with
Extra Cover and Signature on Delivery within Australia, Australia Post
accepts banknotes or coins to a maximum face value of A$200 in any one
consignment." For more information check post number 16 at i want to know if (http://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=3212&pid=63899#pid63899).
However, the clincher is the next line "Australia Post accepts no liability for the loss of or damage to any such articles containing banknotes." Presumably they will accept loss and/or damage to coins -has anyone tested that? AJ, was your loss coins or notes?
So you pay extra for registered (or Signature on delivery plus Extra cover) and what do you get for your money? Zip, nada, nil, zilch, SFA, nothing...... that reflects Australia Post's customer service attitude methinks.
I can tell you all it's fact that if you send notes using reg post and your honest and it get lost and they addmit they lost it it's tough shit and you will only get the $3 reg post back and that's it, lose it and find out the hard way like I did and as I said who do you go to because no one wants to know any thing about it not even the local member :(
and I notice no one wants to answer the question I posed, who should pay for lost post, buyer, seller, middleman or AU post????
edited by me
The answer has already been given -Australia Post is responsible; Australia post should pay.
Registration and Extra cover have provision for the nature and value of the contents to be declared so there should be no argument.
They know full well that, for the values involved, no one will take them to court. Even if you have a win there is no guarantee that they will be ordered to pay expenses (which could be many times the amount in dispute).
Just another reason why more and more people are seeking alternatives to Australia Post.
Regardless of what the counter staff tell you, submit a "Customer Service Complaint" form and ensure you keep the acknowledgement slip with the claim number on it.
Staff are obliged to send it to Australia Post's Customer Contact Centre for review and determination of response.
You can then later follow up the complaint by 'phoning 131318 and quoting the claim number if there appears to be no action.
Get a copy of the form anyway, at any post office, and peruse the list of things you can complain about -includes "other" too. (On the reverse of the form is a list of 44 code numbers for types of complaints.)
Over the years my wife and I have had cause to lodge several complaints; missing parcel, received damaged etc. and have always been offered some compensation. In one case we received 50% of claim for a parcel that was neither registered or insured!
why not take them to small claims court?
they will have to pay a senior manager to attend and the cost of that will exceed the value of just paying you. in addition they cannot claim costs general regardless of out come (WA laws)
out of interest when you lodged the claim did you refer to it as a Numismatic collectable item or cash? because it could be argued in court that they are 2 different things and I hope you didn't call it cash.
but to answer you 1st question, the buyer shouldn't get lumped with this, it is up to you to seek compensation off aus post and in my opinion they should pay. honestly good luck, don't let them get you down and don't give up!
Quote from: 'serial' pid='64601' dateline='1419923084'why not take them to small claims court?
they will have to pay a senior manager to attend and the cost of that will exceed the value of just paying you. in addition they cannot claim costs general regardless of out come (WA laws)
out of interest when you lodged the claim did you refer to it as a Numismatic collectable item or cash? because it could be argued in court that they are 2 different things and I hope you didn't call it cash.
but to answer you 1st question, the buyer shouldn't get lumped with this, it is up to you to seek compensation off aus post and in my opinion they should pay. honestly good luck, don't let them get you down and don't give up!
The classification would matter if Aus Post said they insure Numismatic Collectables but not Money or Cash however from the section provided on the previous page there is no classification specifying such so it wouldn't make or break the case but merely provide a supporting factor.
On the section that Aus Post is regulated by it doesn't limit the claim to face value as such numismatic value would be the total value of the package which was insured (Numismatic Collectable would support this point however is not neccesary.)
I took a bit of time and looked up the exact terms of 'Extra Cover' as provided by Australia Post there are two key sections:
5 Service provided
5.1 Australia Post shall provide the Service when:
5.1.1 a customer makes a written application for the Service in or on a form
prescribed by Australia Post for that purpose;
5.1.2 that application does not relate to any article referred to in clause 8 (to the
extent that can reasonably be ascertained at the time of application);
5.1.3 Australia Post accepts that application; and
5.1.4 the customer pays the fee charged by Australia Post for the Service in
accordance with clause 7.
And
8 Articles for which the Service is unavailable
8.1 No monies are payable under the Service for loss or damage relating to the carriage
of articles:
8.1.1 containing bank notes, or bullion;
Now these clearly state that only bank notes and/or bullion are excluded from Extra Cover. However coins are not included and since you have paid them for a service (Extra Cover) there must be sufficient consideration provided (Insuring the parcel.) Now you and Australia Post accepted this consideration with you paying the required fee and Australia Post accepting the money. Thereby you have completed your side of the contract but Australia Post has not honoured their end. The Terms and Conditions provided in the respective email are not correct. I suggest sending them a link quoting Schedule 1 of their Terms and Conditions (Particularly Sections 5 and 8) to show them the correct terms and conditions which were agreed to by both parties.
P.S. This is valid as long as you have the receipt for the sent package. PM me if you would like any more advice AJ.
Does this bit -From AJ's AP letter even make sense?
"Registered Post may be used for sending cash up to the value of $200.00, although compensation is not payable if the article is lost or damaged".
What you're buying is a lodgement scan, tracking and a signature delivery.
Think about the value of all the "stuff" that passes through the mail system. All those Christmas presents bought online and whizzing around the globe. Not much of that stuff is traceable but it's all valuable. It's pot-luck really if something arrives.
Hello,
Everything they move has value. I dont Post rubbish to the tip, I only Post things that are valuable, whether it is monetary or sentimental they have a duty of care. If you have some spare time, start a protest out the front of the offending PO. Contact a local paper / TV and get them to tell of the theft and lack of concern or retribution. Human interest. Stay within the law, and be the biggest pain you can. They may decide it is better to " pay you off " and not get bad PR. Shame can motivate some people. Warning people that enter that their property is not safe, and that there is no benefit of registered Post will start to make a point. You have paid for a service, safe delivery with tracking. They have not done this, causing financial hardship to you.
I told them and sent all forms, emails, phone calls and sent pic's of the Collectable Error Banknotes and tried to explain that they're not really banknotes any more but a collectable item, everyone I spoke to agreed that it is very deceiving and misleading the way it is all worded as it says you can but then you can't and won't be compensated :dash1: Yes still chasing it as I won't get my money back but can I try and get the wording changed but don't like my chances so thought i should let you all know what the go actually is and if I could I'd take it to court but where do I get money to do it and I thought I was doing something legal so didn't need to lie but turns out not and you have to lie.. why are we teaching people lie when I only want to get ahead but now what to do :(
I asked how the dealers and auction houses do it and no one could give me an answer :dash1:
I was always sceptical about all the writing on the back of the reg post form and wondered what they meant and with good reason as I found out the hard way.
Hello,
I typed a reply which got lost when I went back to check some things...... Have you thought about the Ombudsman ? If they know you wont back off, they may decide it is better to pay than waste more time. Lost Mail does turn up, sometimes decades later. There are many Courier companies that are cheap, and many will have limited insurance cover. Aus Post seem to cover items lost in PO Box and Truck fires. Now regardless of their rules, they cant change certain things. Not legal. If you run a business and have a disclaimer, it is worthless if you are negligent. Where they will try to get out of it ( I know the rules have already been described ) is they will say you sent it certified not insured. But, they also have proof they lost it, and it was not something fragile that could easily be broken, which is what I would be insuring against. If you keep at them, they may cave.They have to reply to inquiries, and if someone realizes you wont back down they may decide to make you go away. Hopefully not a Hit Man like from Seinfield !
fairtrading, ombudsman and local member and no one has to answer anything not even the politicians :( I know my money is gone but I wanted to get the wording fixed up so others don't get ripped but to be totally honest it's all giving me the shits and if no one else gives a crap why should I :dash1:
AJ don't give up keep fighting and pursue all avenues as suggested and keep hammering them.
This is total frustrating mate,not good enough AP!
Thanks runway :good:
The seller pays one way or another. If the seller coughs up the cash, he loses a bit of money, if he refuses to compensate the buyer then he'll probably lose a customer.
I have received an email from a buyer that bought a half anna token off me in November 2014 staing that she has not received the token and that the international registered article was received at the mail Sort in San Francisco two days after I posted it from oz.
She has now requested a total refund.
Now, surely if the article has been recorded as stated above then the non delivery is the responsiblility of the US Postal Service and not me or Australia Post.
Am I correct?
Comments appreciated before I do something stupid.
I think she should take the issue up with the mail Sort in San Francisco, obviously you did your part.
Presuming it's an ebay sale
A bit of a grey area Goldie but I would tell her that the item arrived into the USA and she should chase it up with the US Post as you have provided a tracking number which is proof that you sent it.It will be interesting to see what paypal and ebay do if she takes it further but I wouldn't be giving her a refund voluntarily unless the risk of a negative feedback is a worry for you
Just received the following email from her:
QUOTE
I cannot submit claim for compensation through my postal service. I am buyer and I did not insure this item. I believe you need to go the post office you used for this item and request for compensation through your post office. thanks
UNQUOTE
I have replied advising her that I will be submitting my Customer Service Complaint tomorrow and I will not refund any monies till that investigation is finalized.
I will post the next exciting episode if and when I do get a response.
Seller refunds or sends a replacement is what it's always been as far as i know,i you don't then you might lose more than just one customer,word of mouth is a big thing these days.
I thought the paypal buyer protection kicked in for matters like these?
ps we have always followed up with the postal for international post problems as the buyer doesn't have the paperwork
but there was one time we sent a scan of the paperwork to a buyer - the item eventually showed up though
we only ever send registered mail for this very reason
As the article was sent by "Registered Overseas Post" I am hoping that AustPost just might compensate me so I can refund the buyer.
But I just have to wait and see.
I have had dramas with US buyers in the past and now rarely send anything to the US as a result.
On two separate occasions coins I had sent had been noted as "Delivered" by UPS and yet the buyers insisted that the never received it.
I have NEVER had a problem with the USP getting parcels from the US so I simply put it down to the buyer running a scam.
With the new returns policy you are also liable for the postage costs as well Goldie, so beware of sending a refund because as far as I can tell you have fulfilled your part of the bargain and the item IS in the hands of the UPS.
I am sure that eBay will side with you if a dispute is filed and any Neg feedback can and will be removed in a heartbeat for this.
http://auspost.com.au/media/documents/registered-post-lodgement-receipt.pdf
well this and a few other things has just about put me off collecting coins if I can't send because it's prohibited and gonna cost me too much to travel all over trying to buy and sell because there isn't really a market and I don't have the backing so there really isn't much point because I'm not rich or have a big paying job like most here :(
what happens if say Trout sends coins to an auction house and the coins get lost on the way, and what happens if the coins get lost from auction house to buyer and also what happens if auction house loses coins???
what happens to lost coins between members..not good :(
Quick poll, YES or NO, should coins and banknotes be classed as collectables?
AJ,
Don't give up yet. What is the definition of a bank note ? Our money other than Coins is plastic. Older money other than Coins is paper. A collectable rather than currency. Not trying to defend them, but you sent it registered not insured. If you sent a letter of demand, this will stop the recipient saying they didn't get it. Which is why they offered a refund of the Fee.
I would keep hammering them, ring the same person every day and ask where it is. When you get attitude, go further up and complain. I would make it my " duty " to be the biggest pain, you may wear them down in the end. You can still protest out the front, and hope for some Media coverage. There are of course some lines you cant cross. The Cops are not a Mod !
By their definition on the Conditions, you may be able to interperate it that you cant be sent bills. Now I am going out a bit here.... I dont think that power can be turned off for non payment as it is an essential service. That is an area to look at. If you become a big pain, ( I can ) and they change their Web Site, that is an admission and you have them. Think of it as a game, you can only get more points.
Couriers, there are many that are similar in price to AP Find one and use them. Anything you want to buy, contact the seller and ask for the Courier not AP. And tell them why.
Hello,
I took a while to write that.... Look at the standard price of a round 50 Cent. It would be around 10 - 12 dollars. If money is worth more than face value, it is a collectable. How much to get a painting ? how much for the Mona Lisa ?
i am like A J , I am stuck too ,
if I put an rabbit ears dollar up for sale on ebay at @ $ 4.00
who will pay $ 4.00 for the coin + .70c postage + $ 3.70
for reg mail ?? total cost to them ..$ 8.40 . I think no one will
,, kel ,,
Even though it's a little different to mine I have heard of someone that lost a few $$K coin and got screwed like I did and not that I'll ever have thousand dollar coins but I can't afford to have things go missing and paying for a service that isn't provided like registered post :(
Postage costs are something I have to look at all the time as some charge like wounded bulls so I was buying in bulk but now I have to rethink that as well..might have to get back into trading cards because at least you can post them and not have to lie if making a claim :good:
and like Kel said about the cost of small items, it's a bit of a joke.