Hi all...going thru some 1920's i was given and found this,under Loupe its looks like a clear dot but having trouble showing with Microscope & Scan.Any thoughts?,most of TRHS scroll is there,also put a scan of lower scroll. TIA
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/1920_dot_top2.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/KB_scope003.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/1920_dot_top3.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/KB_scope.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/KB_scope001.jpg)
This previous thread might give you a bit of info
http://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=1690&highlight=1920
Thanks for reply,been thru that thread but not sure with this coin,dot shows clearly with a loupe but not so good with scan/scope.There is a few die markers near final A that got me intrigued but right hand side of top scroll seems at odds with other Dot over Top egs..
I put this together based on comments by N.E. and others. It applies to dot over top scroll 1920 pennies (aka DOTS).
DOTS:
Must have FBL lettering – all DOTS have FBL. Is the converse true?
Must not have a die clash (most double dots are clashed and most false DOTS are double dots).
Must not have reverse die cracks (the DOTS penny is in a minority in not having readily visible die markers, sometimes you might spot the last A mark).
The inner ring should have no deterioration.
The obverse must have good rims.
All known examples are Calcutta obverse dies.
RHS top scroll weakness – may not be an exclusive rule. Based on David Guy's research where he found 8 examples. If the weakness is a mangled die of some kind then maybe it gets worse over time and early strikes are not so bad. The OP seems to be slightly mangled.
Fred Lever puts these at 2% (of his 200 coin sample).
A Dot Over Top must have FBL. Same with Double Dots, Dot Over Bottom and any English obverse penny (Dot Below and Dot Above).
CBLs are all Dot Below, and so are over half of FBL.
If you have a DOT with a die clash it is almost certainly a DD with filled lower dot. Or a bit of PMD that looks like a dot.
My best DOT, plus others, have a decent top scroll, so I wouldn't rely on that feature either way.
Not 2%, more like 1 in 200 to 1 in 400, I'm sure it will vary around Australia depending om where they were released back in the 1920s. Has decent inner ring and decent rim.
Whilst it quiet i'm not sure about this coin,another poor eg. but seems to have a dot over the top scroll and mangled denticles in the correct place on the Obverse.The peak of the top scroll seems malformed so hard to line up 'dots' position.TIA
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/1920_DOT_Wonky_Scroll00001resize.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/1920_DOT_Wonky_Scroll00002resize.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/8~1.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/5~0.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/10~1.jpg)
Basil, Have a close look at your coin for raised diagonal lines between denticles above ALIA, the two pics below show what I mean. I've been fortunate to be able to take some pics of a reasonably high grade example which confirms what is now also clearly evident in a lower grade example. Also notice a small die chip between denticles above the second "A" in AUSTRALIA, as well as the raised angled line extending from the bottom of the second leg at the last "A".
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1920_Penny_dot_over_top2C_diagonal_die_markers_in_denticles.png)
Basil, Have a close look at your coin for raised diagonal lines between denticles above AL in AUSTRALIA, the two pics below show what I mean. I've been fortunate to be able to take some pics of a reasonably high grade example which confirms what is now also clearly evident in a lower grade example. Also notice a small die chip between denticles above the second "A" in AUSTRALIA, as well as the raised angled line extending from the bottom of the second leg at the last "A".
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1920_Penny_dot_over_top_scroll2C_diagonal_die_markers_in_denticles.JPG)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1920_Penny_Dot_over_top_diagonal_die_markers_in_denticles.JPG)
The die chip above the 2nd A is a hub marker and not a die marker. It is found on about 8 other FBLs from 1920 and it is one of the things I always look for.
Thanks for the Info. from you both,the raised line from the last A is the go by the looks of things,hardly visible on my poor quality coin but i'll see if i can get a better Pic.