I have (today) been made aware of an australian TPG "APCGS"
Just wondering if anyone has any info or feed back on this company.
Pretender,no credibility MS 10 MS 8 LOLOL !
Quote from: 'trout' pid='3895' dateline='1353904721'I have (today) been made aware of an australian TPG "APCGS"
Just wondering if anyone has any info or feed back on this company.
Try real hard and forget you heard of this "Entity".:dodgy:
I only know what I have read on CCF and what I have seen on the APCGS website. I don't appreciate that it appears they are using an Australian namesake of a reputable company seemingly riding on their good name. I also fail to understand that they have any knowledge of the sheldon grading system grading their coins as MS47, do they even know what ms stands for? They also have no sort of population report. All in all I would steer clear of these people.
If I also recall they joined CCF only to spam that forum and not offer any quality content or knowledge. Do I recall correctly?
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='3900' dateline='1353906888'I only know what I have read on CCF and what I have seen on the APCGS website. I don't appreciate that it appears they are using an Australian namesake of a reputable company seemingly riding on their good name. I also fail to understand that they have any knowledge of the sheldon grading system grading their coins as MS47, do they even know what ms stands for? They also have no sort of population report. All in all I would steer clear of these people.
If I also recall they joined CCF only to spam that forum and not offer any quality content or knowledge. Do I recall correctly?
Yep! Their CCF ID is locked.
If I also recall they joined CCF only to spam that forum and not offer any quality content or knowledge. Do I recall correctly?
there is nothing wrong with your memory PP. :good:
I have done some digging about this mob and the further I dig the closer to the sewer I get:dodgy:
Looks like we are stuck with PCGS untill someone bites the bullet here in Aus and does this properly and honestly.
PCGS isnt perfect but it is the best we have at the moment (Bloody expesive tho) :dash1:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='3903' dateline='1353907219'
Looks like we are stuck with PCGS untill someone bites the bullet here in Aus and does this properly and honestly.
PCGS isnt perfect but it is the best we have at the moment (Bloody expesive tho) :dash1:
Chris Buesnell of Pacific Rim Coins had Australian Coin Grading Service
(ACGS) in the late 1990's.
He now utilises PCGS and to a lesser extent NGC.
If you find any of his "Folder" slabbed coins they are worth grabbing.
Chris Buesnell of Pacific Rim Coins had Australian Coin Grading Service
(ACGS) in the late 1990's.
I have heard about this bloke, He was an inovator before the market was ready :dash1:
We need a new Chris to enter the fray :good:
I did a trial sale of 2 coins,1 slabbed and 1 raw.
The raw coin was in fact a better grade than the slabbed coin.
At the end of the day the slabbed coin performed better (as far as a dollar return goes) than the raw coin.
When I near the end of my days I will send all my high value coins in to be slabbed so that my Missus gets the best value for what I leave her.
If I sent these all over to the US the postage and insurance costs and the exorbitant costs for slabbing these by PCGS will be huge.
Also the US postal service is not that secure.
I would much rather send these to a TPG in Aus so that the costs involved and security of the coins would be more attractive.
That is why I looked at this mob, Bugger looks like I have to keep looking.
Why is it that we have people like Walter,Peter Andrews,Sap (I don't know his real name) Sel ( I do know his name but I ain;t telling you mob) and many many more eminent numismatists in this country but we seem to insist on sending our coins off shore to be graded.
This to me is insane when we have people with intimate knowledge and expertise with Australian coinage that are MORE than capable of doing as good if not better Job than the big TPG's
The Australian coin market is simply too small to maintain a standalone run-for-profit TPG. The British coin market is barely big enough to keep CGS, their one native TPG, in business and the British coin market is ten, twenty times bigger than ours.
If a native TPG is ever to get off the ground here, it might have to start the same way the Americans started. ANACS, the first American TPG, began life as the American Numismatic Association Certification Service: it was one of the member benefits of organized numismatics, filling a perceived need expressed by their members. But organized numismatics in Australia has barely heard of the TPG concept at this stage; I can literally count on one hand the number of times I've seen a slabbed coin at a coin club meeting.
The only other option is to do what Chris Buesnell tried to do, and what David Hall in America (the founder of PCGS) succeeded in doing: start up a "basement slabber" style TPG where the only graded coins are your own, only do what most basement slabbers fail to do: grade honestly. Then let your reputation slowly percolate through the industry. But that last step took PCGS over a decade.
They sell the coins they grade. I cannot get over how dodgy that is. It completely obliterates any credibility they may have.
If a TPG doesn't understand what the "MS" in the Sheldon system stands for I hold out little hope that they can actually relate the grade of a coin to the appropriate number in the Sheldon system.
The Australian market is too small for a TPG. Chris Buesnell and Walter Eigner are the only creditable attempts at it.
They sell the coins they grade. I cannot get over how dodgy that is. It completely obliterates any credibility they may have
I agree in this instance.
But if Walter did the same thing would you have the same opinion? I seriously doubt it.
I know we have a small collector base in Aus and slabbed coins are still a bit of a novelty/annoyance but IMHO they are here and will be accepted and respected.
All we need to do is support an honest and skilled "Basement slobber" and we CAN have our own Aussie TPG in due time.
Read Sap's post.
They all had to start from somewhere
TPG = third party grader. Third party means they have no interest in the value of the coin. In this case they do. They do not even come close to a tpg company, infact by definition they cant be unless they stop selling the coins they grade. Otherwise they are simply a grading service, a service already provided by aussie dealers. The fact they put the coins in a slab is irrelevant in the discussion as to whether or no they are a third party, it is simply a method of displaying a coin. They are no different to walter in the fact that they grade and sell coins. The difference is in the display method and the reputations.
Walter and Buesnell did slab and sell their own coins.
So not really tpg either. But at least they both have good reputations.
if the slabs are good quality and the grading honest, i see someone trying to have a go. if the grading is bad and slabs cheap, i see someone trying to make money at others expense.
So not really tpg either. But at least they both have good reputations.
That is the essence of an honest grader, when they are willing and confident to put their own personal reputation on the line.
In my opinion far better scenario than an unknown identity deciding the grade of your coin.
It makes it up close and personal and far more accurate because of the inherent accountability involved.
PERFECT
Come on Walter we all know you have forgotten more about grading Aussie coins than we will ever know.
Have another crack me old mate :good:
I for one would be one of your first customers.
What are you wanting trout? A slab or an accurate grade or both? If you want a grade then most dealers will already give you that for a fee. You yourself seem more than capable of grading accurately from what i have seen. If you want a coin in a piece of plastic then do it yourself, it would be much cheaper. If you want impartial and relatively consistent grading then stick with pcgs.
I think the major part of a slab is the security that "what you are told is true and accurate"
If Bob the ebay seller says "I reckon its MS64" it means very little.
If a trusted grader says "It is MS64" that is worth something, but unless its in a slab, Bob the ebay seller can CLAIM a trusted seller has graded it, and it is not true.
I think in theory, you should be able to buy a slabbed coin "sight unseen" and not get a surprise (good or bad).
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='3930' dateline='1353928494'What are you wanting trout? A slab or an accurate grade or both? If you want a grade then most dealers will already give you that for a fee. You yourself seem more than capable of grading accurately from what i have seen. If you want a coin in a piece of plastic then do it yourself, it would be much cheaper. If you want impartial and relatively consistent grading then stick with pcgs.
Mate I want both; I have NO dealers within 500 k's of where I am.
Thank you for the complement but I am in no way an expert grader.
As the years creep up on me I am getting concerned as to how my collection will be sold (None of my family is interested in numismatics)
That is why I am concerned with getting the better part of my collection slabbed (at a reasonable price AND accurately) so that my Missus can get real value for them instead of the free for all on eBay or worse a dodgy dealer.
It would break my heart to see my collection (that has taken years to build) sold at melt or on a fire sale
Quote from: 'trout' pid='3932' dateline='1353930334'Quote from: 'enworb' pid='3930' dateline='1353928494'What are you wanting trout? A slab or an accurate grade or both? If you want a grade then most dealers will already give you that for a fee. You yourself seem more than capable of grading accurately from what i have seen. If you want a coin in a piece of plastic then do it yourself, it would be much cheaper. If you want impartial and relatively consistent grading then stick with pcgs.
Mate I want both; I have NO dealers within 500 k's of where I am.
Thank you for the complement but I am in no way an expert grader.
As the years creep up on me I am getting concerned as to how my collection will be sold (None of my family is interested in numismatics)
That is why I am concerned with getting the better part of my collection slabbed (at a reasonable price AND accurately) so that my Missus can get real value for them instead of the free for all on eBay or worse a dodgy dealer.
It would break my heart to see my collection (that has taken years to build) sold at melt or on a fire sale
Just go with PCGS (or NGC). There's no need to reinvent the wheel by starting a new Australian grading service. More importantly, even if an Australian grading service kicked off successfully here in Australia, how will you sell your Australian graded coins overseas? The world standard is PCGS and NGC, and if you want international liquidity, get your coins graded by them.
the way the world loves anything aussie i can see them selling world wide once the reputation was built.
Quote from: 'Russ e' pid='4012' dateline='1354013161'the way the world loves anything aussie i can see them selling world wide once the reputation was built.
I agree, as long as it is done professionally the reputation and acceptance WILL grow.
Even PCGS and NGC had to start from scratch in the beginning.
Here's one in the wild. Note there's no mention of the MS-12 grade in the listing and it's been "profectionly slabed so no mistakes".
eBay link (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1966-wavy-line-20-cent-coin-/321038016685?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item4abf5b60ad&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1414)
That seller has a few of the APCGS 'slabed' coins. :winkextra:
PROFECTIONLY SLABED,besides learning the grading system they are supposedly using they also need some ENGLISH or SPELLING lessons.LOL
I would be willing to travel to the U.S. on a monthly basis to hand deliver everyone's coins personally to P.C.G.S. and then return them to their rightful owners. I just need tonight's 6 numbers please.! Also thinking of starting a 'Cult' where all my devoted followers donate 'Silver Offerings' to their leader "Bagwan Robster". Neither is very likely but we all have to dream.! Right.!!
Looks like APCGS have now adopted the Sheldon System
http://apcgs.com.au/
Will follow with great interest.!!
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='6396' dateline='1358251044'Looks like APCGS have now adopted the Sheldon System
http://apcgs.com.au/
I have visions of acne covered adolescents sitting in a 2 bed flat scratching their heads on a way to tag onto PCGS’s success (APCGS is a bit plagiaristic in my book) Popping their zits and finally realised that they were grading in their own space/time dimension and had nothing whatsoever to do with the real world.
Then one of them turns to the others and says “hay Bro ya recon we should learn about this Sheldon stuff N whack that on our crappy slabsâ€
The other guys reply “ Coool. great idea , now pass back the bongâ€
As far as I am concerned this mob has lost all its credibility
QuoteAs far as I am concerned this mob has lost all its credibility
I agree and think they have a mountain to climb .I'll also be watching with interest
I wonder if they got permission to use that 1930 proof penny photo's in their business ?
Did you end up sending coins to them a few weeks ago trout?
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='6411' dateline='1358258232'Did you end up sending coins to them a few weeks ago trout?
Definatly not:dodgy:
Glad to hear you didnt in the end