Has anyone here had a problem with a neighbour who refuses to pay for 50% of a fence that separates two properties.
My son and I replaced a falling down paling fence, literally held together by wire and chewing gum, and replaced it with a colourbond fence.
The neighbour agreed to the fence and also agreed to assist in pulling down the old fence and installing the fence.
He was given both my home and mobile phone numbers in case of anything.
He failed to front on agreed times to assist in the removal and erection of the new fence, never contacted me in person or by phone, and now refuses to pay, what I deem to be a fair labour cost of $50.00 per hour, his share is $25.00 per hour.
Questions:
1. Can I take legal action against this neighbour for all costs?
2. Can I sue or expect my neighbour to repay the costs of the legal expenses.
3. What else can I do?
The above problem is causing me so much duress that I am shaking like a leaf just typing here.
I live in Victoria so rules and regulations applicable in other states may not be applicable here.
Assistance required.
Thanks.
Have you tried taking it up with your local council.They may be able to advise on where
you stand legally
Where I come from this is normally done via a "Gentleman's Agreement" I'm talking about Boundary fences here.
Normally the biggest cost in fencing is the Materials, in your case the colourbond, Capping, posts and cement.
In my case it is strainers, steel posts, ringlock and barbed wire.
In most States you neighbour is liable for half the materials costs, Not so sure on the erecting costs.
The important thing is Did you both agree that the fence needed to be done or did you just say I am going to put a new fence up and I demand that you pay for half of it and do your share of the work?
I am pretty sure that if you are the only party that was unhappy with the fence and you solely decided that it HAD to be changed then the neighbour really has NO obligation to pay for your choice of fence.
Under the Fences Act 1968 (VIC) fences between two properties must be equally maintained by both parties regarding costs of set-up and maintenance.
In terms of your second question you can sue for the repayment of legal expenses however it may be harder due to the presumably verbal nature of the agreement (if you have it in writing with signatures of both parties you are golden.)
The ideal method of settlement is the Dispute Settlement Centre of Victoria for mediation. If that doesn't work you can take it to the magistrates court.
Make sure to keep the invoices, receipts and relevant documents for all materials purchased, work done and agreements reached.
My recommendation would be to type out a letter of demand and serve it to him. This should very quickly change his position on the matter when the threat to sue is provided.
This link should provide additional information for your situation:
http://www.lawhandbook.org.au/fact_sheets/ch14.php
In answer to all the above questions:
1. A verbal agreement between myself and the neighbour was done over the phone.
2. Tenants in neighbours house have asked repeated for a new fence to owners of property for two years with no result.
3. neighbours father agreed to assist in the removal and construction of the fence. he failed to show up on numerous occasions after dates and times have been agreed to.
4. He has never contacted me since the verbal agreement we made in May 2014. I have made all the moves to communicate with him. He has never responded to any of my messages left.
5. I arranged for three quotes and only received one written quote. I was prepared to show him the quote when his father suggested that we, that is, he and I do the fence to save costs. This was agreed to verbally.
6. I hired a concrete cutter to cut concrete, made all the trips to hardware store for all stores. He has done nothing.
7. I have been to council and they have washed their hands of it. Only comment by them is that is now a legal problem, not ours.
For OMF: been there and do not quite fully understand what is says but have a fair idea. Arbitration is the way to go me thinks but neither party is forced to attend if they don't want too.
I am seeing legal beegles tomorrow.
I see thank you for the clarification. Before you see the lawyers try a letter of demand. This would change his tone significantly and would also bolster your chances of winning any future legal proceedings substantially as well as saving you money on the lawyers.
Goldie
have a chat with your DVA support services
I think legals can be included
hum on second thoughts ...maybe not, just had a look and couldn't find legal
a call could be worth it just it case?
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='61955' dateline='1415188491'Goldie
have a chat with your DVA support services
I think legals can be included
Been there, done that. DVA have no legal services that I can use. I wish that did have though.
If I have to go to court and incur court costs to recover these funds, can I claim the court costs as a tax deduction as the house I own is rented out and I receive income from it.
It is all above board and DVA know about the income.
Quote from: 'oh my florin' pid='61954' dateline='1415188041'I see thank you for the clarification. Before you see the lawyers try a letter of demand. This would change his tone significantly and would also bolster your chances of winning any future legal proceedings substantially as well as saving you money on the lawyers.
Thanks for that and maybe a letter of demand may suffice.
I would appreciate a response in regards to your first PM to me, thanks.
Maybe you can slap a caveat on the property, effectively stopping him from ever selling the property until he satisfies your demand.
A response has been sent via PM. In terms of a caveat it generally would be used when the property is used as security of a loan or to prevent the misappropriation of the property to avoid a court order.
Hello,
This is my opinion and what I would do. Be certain he agreed, as if you decide to replace it he doesn't have to pay unless he agreed to it prior. I dont think you can reasonably expect him to pay for your labour. ( I know he should ) Send a letter of demand, then take out a small claims action. Does he have a dog ? If you take it to small claims court a dog getting out will help your case. Even if it is yours. If you take it too far, the cost will exceed the fence. If you were to sell up and move, take it down as you paid for it and it is therefore your property.
Being the sort of person I am, I would take panels off and paint slogans on his side. If he covers them, ( paints over ) then you can have him charged for vandalism of your property. If he has Kids, buy them a drum set.
Did your neighbour put his hand is his pocket at all to chip in for the materials Goldie?
I've got no practical suggestion to offer but I do sympathise with you about problems with neighbours. It can be very upsetting if issues arise. Stick at it....
Answers to more questions asked:
1. Neighbour has not in any way put his hand into his pocket to pay for the fence.
2. Neighbours father threatened to pull/dismantle the fence. (How dare he say that about MY fence).
3. I don't have a dog or drum kit.
4. I am not asking my neighbour to pay/contribute to MY LABOUR COSTS but for him to pay for his share of the total labour costs.
Anyway, letter of demand and then Magistrates Court now in the process.
Thanks for all for your comments.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='61969' dateline='1415252058'Answers to more questions asked:
1. Neighbour has not in any way put his hand into his pocket to pay for the fence.
2. Neighbours father threatened to pull/dismantle the fence. (How dare he say that about MY fence).
3. I don't have a dog or drum kit.
4. I am not asking my neighbour to pay/contribute to MY LABOUR COSTS but for him to pay for his share of the total labour costs.
Anyway, letter of demand and then Magistrates Court now in the process.
Thanks for all for your comments.
This bloke sounds like a real piece of work Goldie.
YOU do all the work and pay for the fence and this jerk reneges and gets the sooks and wants to pull the fence down.
If the letter of demand has no effect I recon a good old fashioned pasting is in order :ok:
You do have a problem. The verbal promise to help was made by the father of the properties owner. So both the father and son can walk on that.
I presume that there are regulations setting out how boundary fences are to be paid for; and a dispute resolution procedure. Has to be as fences are a common matter of dispute.
Don't terrorise the property or act like the neighbour from hell (drums, good old pasting etc), you risk them filming you and reporting you to the cops, and more importantly that sort of action invites retaliation (brick through window, poisoned pets, slashed tyres, someone banging on your door late at night when your wife is home and you are out, etc etc). All over a fence?
Have you proof that the fence was dilapidated? Maybe a happy slap where the fence can be seen in the background? Don't want the Ahole saying you pulled down a perfectly functional fence when your claim is heard.
Nealeffendi: A fence that was falling down, nails on the ground, rails non existing, some parts of the fence held together with wire and CHEWING GUM.
Pictures not needed, owner agreed as soon as I mentioned it to him that the was a need to replace the fence.
It was several weeks after he agreed to replace the fence with a colour bond that was closely matching the other two fences on his property and three that are on my property that I was notified that his father was his contractor and all questions re the fence was to be directed to him, his dad.
The owner has never denied that the fence did need replacing, it is father that is not paying up on his behalf.
I am sure that I am only required to speak to the owner of the property and not a agent but I can't find it where that is written.
All I need now after reading what I have to do to get to court, is a really cheap, inexpensive solicitor/lawyer who knows haw to complete the forms required for me to go further. Hopefully will be going to local legal services for assistance after my trip to Narooma next week.
Hi Goldie.
I think that however this is dealt with, the issue of cost of materials is pretty straight forward, and it should end up as each party pays half.
The part which I think may cause issues would be the "what I deem to be a fair labour cost of $50.00 per hour, his share is $25.00 per hour." I would expect this would need to be justified, and (depending on how painful the other side is being) may be disputed, so you would need to be prepared to justify this rate.
I hope it get sorted out to your satisfaction.
Regards,
Ozcoins.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='62005' dateline='1415328811'Nealeffendi: A fence that was falling down, nails on the ground, rails non existing, some parts of the fence held together with wire and CHEWING GUM.
Pictures not needed, owner agreed as soon as I mentioned it to him that the was a need to replace the fence.
It was several weeks after he agreed to replace the fence with a colour bond that was closely matching the other two fences on his property and three that are on my property that I was notified that his father was his contractor and all questions re the fence was to be directed to him, his dad.
The owner has never denied that the fence did need replacing,
You may think pictures are not needed, but now the old fence is gone where is the PROOF that the fence had to be replaced? Do you have any witnesses to the son agreeing that the fence needed to be replaced? The son and/or father may claim that the timber was still sound and just a few palings and a rail or two needed remounting. They might claim you were pushy and had a mind set on replacing the wooden fence to match your colourbond and they only agreed to let you change it without any agreement to them chipping in.
Did you take any photos of the dismantling of the old fence? (to post in the ACF home maintenance thread) Maybe the old fence is stacked somewhere (great BBQ fuel).
How were you notified that his father was his contractor,by email? (presumably you were given something specifying this with the fathers contact details enclosed- that create nexus to the father and evidence that the fence replacement was being discussed).
Turn it from a he said/she said case to a solid case and let the son know you will take legal action to recover for the fence and for legal costs. He might agree to settle for most of what you should have gotten.
100% with Neal on the photos. (See if you can find some somewhere).
Us being in NSW might be a bit different to VIC, but fought a similar one years ago (maybe 20 years????) when we lived in an urban area.
The old fence was 2 bits of wire on a few bent over star steels.
The pics we presented in court were the killer of the guy next door's argument.
Wishing you all the best Goldie.
You needed to both sign a contract, and he doesn't have to pay for colour bond, the minimum he might have to pay is paling fence.
Quote from: 'proof27' pid='62252' dateline='1415792048'You needed to both sign a contract, and he doesn't have to pay for colour bond, the minimum he might have to pay is paling fence.
If the standard fence in the area is paling fence then the neighbour isn't obliged to pay the extra. But if the standard is colourbond then the neighbour has to pay.
Also there are means to extract the higher cost fence. If the old fence was hardwood paling and so were all the other fences in the area then a cheap CCA treated softwood fence isn't like for like. So if the neighbour tries to weasel out of paying for colourbond by using cheap quotes for a softwood fence you counter that softwood wasn't the old standard and the new standard is colourbond.
As I have said prior, my neighbour is not trying to weasel out of paying for a new fence but of the labour costs that I hit him with due to him not turning up and pitching in.
Legal thingies start next week.
Legal thingies have started.
I issued him with a Fencing Notice on the 18/11/14 and he has 30 days to respond.
If no response, its off to the magistrates Court. Paperwork already to go.