Australian-Coins Forum

Numismatic Discussion => Coin and Banknote Grading => Topic started by: trout on September 18, 2014, 04:41:11 PM

Title: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 18, 2014, 04:41:11 PM
I have noticed that I am not the only member that has just started to get their coins graded by either of these TPG's.
Neither of these companies are perfect and from time to time they stuff it up.

I have just had a good look at my 65 coin subscription and 99% of these are silver proof 25mm Dollar coins.

I found 3 glaring stuff ups and will confirm these when I get the coins in hand.

I sent in 2x 1992 Barcelona coins reeded edge and interrupted reeding, They Both came back described as a reeded edge coin.
The same with the 2010 100th anniversary coins.
I can understand how a grader could miss a small detail like no interrupted reeding on a coin But I also sent in 2x 2004 MOR coins , 1 is the oversize MOR from the Masterpieces in silver set the other is from a 2004 silver proof set.
How they could mistake a 25mm 11.49g coin for a one ounce coin baffles me.
Both are described as 2004 Mob of Roos Silver 1oz :dash1:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausjack on September 18, 2014, 05:04:52 PM
Great so you get to wait again while you send them back to get redone so hope customs don't decide to have a little nibble again, the good money you pay they should be able to tell an ounce coin. Gee your not having much luck with it old mate but look at it this way, it can't get any worse :friends:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: nealeffendi on September 18, 2014, 05:11:35 PM
Ausjack is wrong, it could get worse. Imagine sending them back and they got lost.
Don't some people pay a premium for error (mislabled) slabs? They certainly do for American coins so maybe they do for any coin.
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausjack on September 18, 2014, 05:23:02 PM
Yes I was just trying to be positive because things can always get worse and you don't have to tell me because I know first hand.
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: purplepennyhunter on September 18, 2014, 05:26:31 PM
Got a good one here.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/dodgy-pcgs-pic.jpg)
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: serial on September 18, 2014, 05:33:20 PM
I sent some coins via a 3rd party once and one of the coins graded ms64 and was a rare coin in such a high grade. Pic came through and nothing was wrong with the coin in the pics but when the coin arrived it had a massive rim knock and looked awful. Somehow the had destroyed the coin after grading it and before slabbing it. I miss that coin and it took awhile for me to get over its loss
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausjack on September 18, 2014, 05:33:38 PM
what the?
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 18, 2014, 05:34:32 PM
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='59454' dateline='1411026991'Got a good one here.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/dodgy-pcgs-pic.jpg)

Mark sorted it  out when I had a similar problem with the secure images, I don't have that problem anymore because I don't do the "secure" thing anymore :)
 Is that a Pagoda? :Drooling:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausjack on September 18, 2014, 05:34:43 PM
and the "what the?" was for PP sorry serial :friends:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: purplepennyhunter on September 18, 2014, 05:36:44 PM
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='59454' dateline='1411026991'Got a good one here.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/dodgy-pcgs-pic.jpg)

It's an MS62 pagoda, thought Trout might be interested in buying it but that image is all I have for now!!!
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 18, 2014, 05:42:35 PM
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='59461' dateline='1411027604'
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='59454' dateline='1411026991'Got a good one here.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/dodgy-pcgs-pic.jpg)

It's an MS62 pagoda, thought Trout might be interested in buying it but that image is all I have for now!!!

I can "Sniff" them little buggers out, even if I only see a wee bit of it :dance2:
Can you send me an image and some info when you can PP, I have quite a soft spot for these tiny little coins , especially if they fall into the proclamation era :angel:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: purplepennyhunter on September 18, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
Sure! As soon as it gets back mate.
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 18, 2014, 05:48:57 PM
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='59464' dateline='1411028093'Sure! As soon as it gets back mate.

WOOOHOOOO :yahoo:
:wavemulticolor:
Eat my sox Serial :dance::dance2: :laugh2::)
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 18, 2014, 07:25:17 PM
@PP

I sent the Pagoda I got from the US to Eric to get graded for me and I am quietly confident that it will come back with an MS grade going from what I have learnt over the past year getting coins graded by TPG's.
I may get a disappointing result But that won't be the first time that has happened :angel:
Looking forward to seeing your Pagoda with a full image :)
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: serial on September 18, 2014, 07:59:43 PM
yeh I am on a bit of a short lease atm. I have spent over $10k this month and the missus has got a bit upset at me

so its yours mate
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 18, 2014, 08:02:02 PM
Quote from: 'serial' pid='59490' dateline='1411036183'yeh I am on a bit of a short lease atm. I have spent over $10k this month and the missus has got a bit upset at me


so its yours mate

Crikey if I spent 10k in a month my missus would Crucify me :angel:
Bloody good effort Mate :)
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: serial on September 18, 2014, 08:12:06 PM
yeh it kind of just happened
wasn't on purpose

also means I have to sell something :(
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 18, 2014, 08:18:27 PM
Quotealso means I have to sell something Sad
HeHeHe, That's the HARD part, Good luck mate :)
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: robbiegal on September 18, 2014, 08:46:43 PM
Quote from: 'serial' pid='59493' dateline='1411036926'yeh it kind of just happened
wasn't on purpose


also means I have to sell something :(

oh really??
I can hear wifee now

you JUST ACCIDENTLY and not on purpose spent 10 grand on coins .... sweetie .......????
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 18, 2014, 08:51:48 PM
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='59507' dateline='1411039003'
Quote from: 'serial' pid='59493' dateline='1411036926'yeh it kind of just happened
wasn't on purpose


also means I have to sell something :(

oh really??
I can hear wifee now

you JUST ACCIDENTLY and not on purpose spent 10 grand on coins .... sweetie .......????
I don't think the word "Sweetie" would have been used in the conversation :laugh2:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: Fr45h3R on September 18, 2014, 09:00:12 PM
I put this in another thread too
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30435095
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 18, 2014, 09:03:19 PM
Quote from: 'Fr45h3R' pid='59511' dateline='1411039812'I put this in another thread too
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30435095

That is "Gold" Mate :laugh2:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: robbiegal on September 18, 2014, 09:03:31 PM
I dare not click the 'value 'button!

ooops
I did!!

http://www.pcgs.com/Pop/ValueView.aspx?s=144669
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausproofs on September 18, 2014, 10:17:42 PM
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/27278245/

another !
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausjack on September 19, 2014, 04:30:12 AM
well after the security thing with pcgs the other week and now these I think it's making me have second thought about having coins graded, yes it protects them and so on but to pay good money to get jerked around sending the same coins back and forth around the world like they do is an absolute joke and I so wish someone could start a decent grading company here because they'd kill the yanks it if they did.
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausproofs on September 19, 2014, 04:56:46 AM
Spot on AJ, If I had a choice, I would use an Australian company any day!
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausjack on September 19, 2014, 05:09:21 AM
Hopefully one day AP but we need to get rid of this waste of space called apcgs as they are doing so much damage as well as they have a bad name and don't give a toss, second rate jerks if you ask me and pcgs should have them shut down or at least sue the arse off them for riding on pcgs coat tails..so who here, if any has an apcgs in their collection??
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: JeffH on September 19, 2014, 05:13:37 AM
Well there is an Australian third party grader but you would not use them. As AJ said "an absolute joke".
To paraphrase Basil Fawlty "I mentioned APCGS once but I think I got away with it".
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausjack on September 19, 2014, 05:16:31 AM
:laugh2: shhhh I wouldn't be saying that to loud Jeff, you crack me..up thanks mate :friends:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausproofs on September 19, 2014, 06:14:47 AM
I bought a few APCGS coins when I started my collection not knowing who they were...worst of all, I paid PCGS prices for them... Ihave sold the  now, However when I did, I mentioned the coins are APCG coins and Not PCGS...
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: Fr45h3R on September 19, 2014, 07:12:59 AM
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='59521' dateline='1411044462'http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/27278245/

another !

nice rims
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: ausproofs on September 19, 2014, 07:53:35 PM
Quote from: 'Fr45h3R' pid='59537' dateline='1411076579'
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='59521' dateline='1411044462'http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/27278245/

another !

nice rims

Thanks mate :yahoo:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: keldaw on September 20, 2014, 07:06:43 AM
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='59514' dateline='1411040011'I dare not click the 'value 'button!

ooops
I did!!

http://www.pcgs.com/Pop/ValueView.aspx?s=144669

hi Robbie , please tell , how do you get the price of a coin from that link please??? I have tried and tried but cant find anything showing prices ..   ,, kel ,,
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: robbiegal on September 20, 2014, 09:49:27 PM
hi Kel
no that link just took me to photos of coins (florins) of the same or better grades - whereas the listed coin i.e. florin has a photo of a peony instead.  when I clicked the values link I only got photos of florins

but  PCGS do have values for American coins on the home page but I can't find any for the Australian coins
http://www.pcgs.com/prices/
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: keldaw on September 21, 2014, 07:03:37 AM
yep thanks  Robbie , same here , no aust values . ,, kel ,,
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: serial on September 21, 2014, 11:25:15 AM
this will help with coin values
http://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/
but remember it is just a guide. compliment these values with your own research!!!
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: keldaw on September 21, 2014, 01:25:31 PM
thanks serial , very handy indeed ..    ,, kel ,,
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: oh my florin on September 21, 2014, 03:06:09 PM
I think those would be based more on American sales of the coins rather than the Australian sales (correct me if I am wrong) so it would be subject to at least a bit of American speculation. But interesting none the less.
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: serial on September 21, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
You would be right omflorin and all values should be used as indicators with your own reaserch to give you the final value. However it does give you accurate details on mintages, size, weight, metal content sect so it is a handy tool
Just don't forget that values are based on NGC gradings, the difference between ms60 and ms64 can be huge. Some coin values are theoretical as they do not have a graded population

And don't forget variants!
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: oh my florin on September 21, 2014, 06:49:32 PM
Yeah I agree as is the price difference between PCGS graded coins and NGC graded coins too
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: nealeffendi on September 21, 2014, 07:12:07 PM
Quote from: 'serial' pid='59730' dateline='1411264515'this will help with coin values
http://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/
but remember it is just a guide. compliment these values with your own research!!!

Many of the valuations in the NGC guide for world coins were only recently updated for the first time in 20 years, until recently many high grade rare coins were still at valuations that made them worth the same as common date bullion. Also many are still hopelessly wrong (who would sell a MS63 1930 penny for only $125,000 or the proof for $450,000?)
So if they lost or damaged a rare coin they would pay out based on their valuation.
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: echidna on September 21, 2014, 07:33:45 PM
PCGS and NGC are not true professional operations in my opinion.
Because they are not answerable or accountable to anyone.

Grading standards have varied over the years.
And blunders are not uncommon.
Take a look at this beauty.
PCGS have had it as a warranty submission for over 7 months.
No response.
What are they waiting for ?
Professionals ?
Yeah right.



(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/joseywales10/1914halfpenny_a2_zps22a5b852.jpg)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/joseywales10/1914halfpenny_a4_zps22055f90.jpg)
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 23, 2014, 11:49:41 AM
Now this is just plain stupid :dash1:
Both slabs even have the same coin number despite the obvious difference in size

(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/stupid.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/stupid_also.jpg)
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: stevo1962 on September 23, 2014, 01:16:23 PM
And they obviously cant be the same weight either so 1 of
them is an error and maybe more collectible because of it
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 23, 2014, 03:48:59 PM
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='59905' dateline='1411443983'And they obviously cant be the same weight either so 1 of
them is an error and maybe more collectible because of it

Maybe it is a shrunken head variety from Papua :laugh2:
It is however bloody annoying as it is one of my tiny number of PR70 graded coins :dash1:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: Fr45h3R on September 23, 2014, 05:22:47 PM
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='59808' dateline='1411293825'PCGS and NGC are not true professional operations in my opinion.
Because they are not answerable or accountable to anyone.

Grading standards have varied over the years.
And blunders are not uncommon.
Take a look at this beauty.
PCGS have had it as a warranty submission for over 7 months.
No response.
What are they waiting for ?
Professionals ?
Yeah right.

Sounds like they're waiting for it to magically go away, fix itself, or a new doctoring service is coming soon. :angel:
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: robbiegal on September 23, 2014, 07:32:02 PM
how did you label them Trout on the flip that you sent over?
one is masterpieces and the other one is ...
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: Australian coin on September 23, 2014, 07:44:48 PM
haha 2 x 1oz coins
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: trout on September 23, 2014, 08:15:10 PM
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='59928' dateline='1411466522'how did you label them Trout on the flip that you sent over?
one is masterpieces and the other one is ...

 and the other one is ...A bloody site smaller :p
Yes I did write on the submission slip that they were different coins but the D head that did the paperwork simply stuffed up.
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: wwwww on October 02, 2014, 12:50:36 PM
PCGS slabbed a part roll (25 coins) of proof-like 1939 Indian Quarter Annas as proof strikes. That's more than double the entire mintage of the issue.

They corrected them quicker than ever though. Mechanical error submission received 15/9, sent 1/10. I think that's my fastest submission ever!
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: PNC king on October 19, 2014, 08:40:21 PM
maybe its time to start a raw coin dealers blunders topic , although i do not think the web domain  available memory is big enough to be able cope with the replies to the topic
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: nealeffendi on October 19, 2014, 09:51:25 PM
Quote from: 'PNC king' pid='61112' dateline='1413713421'maybe its time to start a raw coin dealers blunders topic , although i do not think the web domain  available memory is big enough to be able cope with the replies to the topic

That is one of the strong points about PCGS and the other top TPGs. When they screw up we can point to the specifics of the screw up as the precise label description (including grading), the encapsulation of the coin and the unique identifying number let us point to their errors. With raw coins there is almost nothing to prove how the dealer blundered and it is your word against theirs.
With raw coins the dealers might have "Unc" on the 2X2, but that could mean it looks sort of Unc or that it is Unc (dipped) or that it is aVG but really shiny after polishing with brasso so we call it Unc (at least 10 times a week I see coins on eBay that fit that description:shock:.)
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: purplepennyhunter on October 20, 2014, 11:28:02 AM
You could start a new thread "Whose unc is that?"
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: PNC king on October 21, 2014, 03:06:56 AM
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='61133' dateline='1413766682'You could start a new thread "Whose unc is that?"
a certain melbourne dealers version of UNC is nice shiney and dipped , his coins at coin fairs all look the same
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: serial on October 24, 2014, 02:26:49 PM
http://www.pcgs.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=149127
check out the copper threepence
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: Australian coin on October 24, 2014, 07:59:46 PM
????? what what, where does it say copper, or do you mean looks like
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: Nightparrot on October 24, 2014, 09:57:17 PM
I think serial is making the point that an image of a halfpenny has somehow found its way onto the page for the 1925 3d
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: robbiegal on October 24, 2014, 11:15:15 PM
that is one super hot halfpenny masquerading as a three'p
give me bronze any day!
Title: RE: PCGS/NGC Blunders
Post by: purplepennyhunter on October 25, 2014, 07:26:16 AM
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='61384' dateline='1414154715'one super hot halfpenny masquerading

Great choice of words, it's like it's in there trying to hide........not very well!!