http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231299006626?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Is it overgraded ?
Looks horrible to me.
What do you reckon...
Most certainly, Even with immaculate surfaces and outstanding eye appeal (not evident from photos), those kind of impacts would certainly have to limit the grade.
It would easily crossover to APCGS (maybe even upgrade). :laughingneqw:
JEFF DUDE not cool as I near wet me self and was gonna buy shares..ok now ya know I'm tellin porky pies, apcgs pffff :winkextra:
Either that seller has some loyal bidders or there are shill bids going on. I have bid on his coins before and noticed I was being manipulated by shills.
I don't mind toned coins but that shilling has some hard knocks. Would it cross over as a 62 or 63 to PCGS?
NGC has this coin valued at 200USD at MS63 so how high for MS65? Could someone buy it and then send it back for re-evaluation and compensation for the drop in value? Sell it to a dummy bidder relative at full MS65 valuation and get them to be paid out hundreds in compo on their "loss".
I have to agree with Neil , MS63 at best.
Far too many hits especially the ear.
NGC are normally a lot better than this and this one slipped under the radar I recon.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='56650' dateline='1407666388'Either that seller has some loyal bidders or there are shill bids going on. I have bid on his coins before and noticed I was being manipulated by shills.
I don't mind toned coins but that shilling has some hard knocks. Would it cross over as a 62 or 63 to PCGS?
NGC has this coin valued at 200USD at MS63 so how high for MS65? Could someone buy it and then send it back for re-evaluation and compensation for the drop in value? Sell it to a dummy bidder relative at full MS65 valuation and get them to be paid out hundreds in compo on their "loss".
I would not recommend doing a warranty submission.
There is something going on.
Perhaps some legal issues...
They are very reluctant dispite the assurancies they offer.
I have done a warranty submission to NGC for a horribly overgarded coin and yep it came be the same grade.
It really was a shocker.
I also have another warranty currently at PCGS.
Over six months and no response.
QuoteThere is something going on with warranties.
Perhaps some legal issues...
They are very reluctant dispite the assurancies they offer.
I have done a warranty submission to NGC for a horribly overgarded coin and yep it came be the same grade.
It really was a shocker.
I also have another warranty currently at PCGS.
Over six months and no response.
I imagine neither TPG is happy to admit a mistake.
They DO make them occasionally , lets face it the graders are only human and mistakes will be made every now and then.
Overall though PCGS and NGC are pretty spot on 99.99% of the time and the odd mistake like this will not stop me getting my coins graded by them :ok:
When something like this comes up , Everyone is on the "Bandwagon" But I have yet to see anyone put up a post to say "Well done Spot on" and I agree for a coin grade :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='56653' dateline='1407668268'QuoteThere is something going on with warranties.
Perhaps some legal issues...
They are very reluctant dispite the assurancies they offer.
I have done a warranty submission to NGC for a horribly overgarded coin and yep it came be the same grade.
It really was a shocker.
I also have another warranty currently at PCGS.
Over six months and no response.
I imagine neither TPG is happy to admit a mistake.
They DO make them occasionally , lets face it the graders are only human and mistakes will be made every now and then.
Overall though PCGS and NGC are pretty spot on 99.99% of the time and the odd mistake like this will not stop me getting my coins graded by them :ok:
When something like this comes up , Everyone is on the "Bandwagon" But I have yet to see anyone put up a post to say "Well done Spot on" and I agree for a coin grade :angel:
If collectors think that PCGS and NGC actually back up their grades via warranty then they may be dissapointed.
My experience is that there is NO recourse for overgrading.
Even no-brainers.
I can back up this statement with images and links.
That 43 shilling is not 65.
Its aUNC.
And I'd suggest that NGC would NOT back it up via a warranty.
Yes they make mistakes as we all do.
My experience is that their grading is not consistant enough.
Nowhere near 99.99%.
It's now a cliche but you've got to buy the coin and not the slab....
I've just had these two great coins crossover from NGC.....
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106060.html
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106061.html
Well done and both very nice Nightparrot but really like the rupee mate and would love to see more pic's as the toning looks pretty cool :good:
Quote from: 'Nightparrot' pid='56659' dateline='1407672051'It's now a cliche but you've got to buy the coin and not the slab....
I've just had these two great coins crossover from NGC.....
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106060.html
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106061.html
Did they crossover at the same grade as NGC or did you have to wear a lesser grade?
With my usual anal nature I followed up on NGC terms and conditions for their guarantees. They can require paperwork for purchase history (might explain shill bids) and they determine if the grade is accurate and how any redress is made (if they wanted to they could swap it for a butt ugly coin that is technically of the right grade and make you wait years until they find one) . They even have sole right to determine market value and don't even rely on the NGC price guide. Nothing inspires confidence when so much is at their "sole discretion"
So yes Dave is right and the guarantee is worth very little.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='56661' dateline='1407672669'Quote from: 'Nightparrot' pid='56659' dateline='1407672051'It's now a cliche but you've got to buy the coin and not the slab....
I've just had these two great coins crossover from NGC.....
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106060.html
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106061.html
Did they crossover at the same grade as NGC or did you have to wear a lesser grade?
Same grade for both....
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='56660' dateline='1407672338'Well done and both very nice Nightparrot but really like the rupee mate and would love to see more pic's as the toning looks pretty cool :good:
The rupee has beautiful toning. Will take some better images later, it is still on it's way back from PCGS....
QuoteThe rupee has beautiful toning. Will take some better images later, it is still on it's way back from PCGS....
That IS a stunner Mate, I have a couple of these But nothing like the quality of that Coin :drooling:
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='56650' dateline='1407666388'Either that seller has some loyal bidders or there are shill bids going on. I have bid on his coins before and noticed I was being manipulated by shills.
I don't mind toned coins but that shilling has some hard knocks. Would it cross over as a 62 or 63 to PCGS?
NGC has this coin valued at 200USD at MS63 so how high for MS65? Could someone buy it and then send it back for re-evaluation and compensation for the drop in value? Sell it to a dummy bidder relative at full MS65 valuation and get them to be paid out hundreds in compo on their "loss".
Its sitting at US $400 ++ already, Hmmmmm someone really likes that coin !
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='56650' dateline='1407666388'Either that seller has some loyal bidders or there are shill bids going on. I have bid on his coins before and noticed I was being manipulated by shills.
I don't mind toned coins but that shilling has some hard knocks. Would it cross over as a 62 or 63 to PCGS?
NGC has this coin valued at 200USD at MS63 so how high for MS65? Could someone buy it and then send it back for re-evaluation and compensation for the drop in value? Sell it to a dummy bidder relative at full MS65 valuation and get them to be paid out hundreds in compo on their "loss".
The coin market on the US ebay is a different beast to the Australian one and the pool of buyers is huge compared with the Australian market. Sellers like jkcoins, gmarguli, greattoning, and aspencoins have great coins, great photos, and a huge following of potential buyers. Look at the feedback numbers they have and the quality they are selling. They DWARF any Australian eBay seller in terms of quality.
You see strong prices and of course, call it shill bidding, I call it having built an eBay selling method that works, and works well. I STRONGLY doubt there's any shill bidding going on there. Of course you are welcome to prove me wrong via PM but sometimes it's too easy to look at the strong prices realised and automatically assume something dodgy is going on and throw accusations about. It doesn't reflect well on anyone to do so.
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='56673' dateline='1407708167'Its sitting at US $400 ++ already, Hmmmmm someone really likes that coin !
It wouldnt be the first time to bidiots have bid something up to stupid levels. It won't be the last. And I bet people on this forum (I'll raise my hand here) have been one of those bidiots before.
QuoteIt wouldnt be the first time to bidiots have bid something up to stupid levels. It won't be the last. And I bet people on this forum (I'll raise my hand here) have been one of those bidiots before.
I won't be taking that bet :angel:
On occasion if I really want a particular coin I will keep bidding until I get it, Regardless of what the market price is :)
Quote from: 'markn' pid='56675' dateline='1407709156'Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='56673' dateline='1407708167'Its sitting at US $400 ++ already, Hmmmmm someone really likes that coin !
It wouldnt be the first time to bidiots have bid something up to stupid levels. It won't be the last. And I bet people on this forum (I'll raise my hand here) have been one of those bidiots before.
I am with you Mark ! I have done that before..... As a matter of fact I have done that with the same sellers items :idea:
I agree, these guys dont need shill bidders, people bid on their items.
Hi Mark
When you have a number of bidders with % of bids with the one seller in the double digits then you have to go hmm? One bidder has bid on 746 items in 30 days and has a 34% bid history with this seller. Another has made 71% of his bids with this seller. On another of the sellers coins that I've bid on there is a bidder with 100% loyalty rate.
Shill bidding is one of the tricks I always watch for. This isn't the only seller that has a very unusual level of customer loyalty, I know defamation means we have to be careful in making accusations but I have a number of sellers on my hmm list and this seller is in third place. I'll PM you with my number 1 and his tactics.
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='56636' dateline='1407662251'http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231299006626?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Is it overgraded ?
Looks horrible to me.
What do you reckon...
A little slow on the uptake here :sleepy: but if I was doing my own adjectival grading with this coin it would be aUNC at best. As some of you have pointed out already, too many dings on the obverse, and the hair looks touched off to me. I reckon the Rams fleece is touched off as well. The toning is hiding all sorts of nasties I reckon.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='56678' dateline='1407711106'Hi Mark
When you have a number of bidders with % of bids with the one seller in the double digits then you have to go hmm? One bidder has bid on 746 items in 30 days and has a 34% bid history with this seller. Another has made 71% of his bids with this seller. On another of the sellers coins that I've bid on there is a bidder with 100% loyalty rate.
Shill bidding is one of the tricks I always watch for. This isn't the only seller that has a very unusual level of customer loyalty, I know defamation means we have to be careful in making accusations but I have a number of sellers on my hmm list and this seller is in third place. I'll PM you with my number 1 and his tactics.
The bidding on my account would easily have double digit percentages with a number of sellers. I have my favourites and I stick with them. I bet other people here are no different. Thanks for your caution though, I don't like these sorts of things thrown about here on this forum and I recommend others think before posting up similar accusations.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='56674' dateline='1407708978'The coin market on the US ebay is a different beast to the Australian one and the pool of buyers is huge compared with the Australian market. Sellers like jkcoins, gmarguli, greattoning, and aspencoins have great coins, great photos, and a huge following of potential buyers. Look at the feedback numbers they have and the quality they are selling. They DWARF any Australian eBay seller in terms of quality.
You see strong prices and of course, call it shill bidding, I call it having built an eBay selling method that works, and works well. I STRONGLY doubt there's any shill bidding going on there. Of course you are welcome to prove me wrong via PM but sometimes it's too easy to look at the strong prices realised and automatically assume something dodgy is going on and throw accusations about. It doesn't reflect well on anyone to do so.
I missed a coin sold by one of those sellers due to technical issues with my pc at the time the auction finished, and I saw the same coin relisted a month or so later. It was very cheap at the final price as well the first time around, and the 2nd time around the price was twice the price of the first auction.