Australia 1952 Shilling in PCGS MS66. Single finest graded as of May 2014. Will be auctioned with a 99c start on eBay starting 22 May and ending Sunday June 1.
http://www.thepurplepenny.com/1281,australia-1952m-shilling-1s-gem-uncirculated-pcgs-ms66.html
shame
shame
but nice coin
Will you take $20 BIN?:ebay:
It is a very nice shilling, someone with deep pockets will be mightily satisfied.
Will be very interesting to see what premium it fetches
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='49067' dateline='1400046631'Will you take $20 BIN?:ebay:
C'mon that's less than slabbing costs.
:drooling: very nice so what if Neal and I both put in $20 and then he can have it for 6 months then 6 with me, I'll be really really good, well I can try :blush2: AJ :)
Quote from: 'markn' pid='49062' dateline='1400042316'Australia 1952 Shilling in PCGS MS66. Single finest graded as of May 2014. Will be auctioned with a 99c start on eBay starting 22 May and ending Sunday June 1.
http://www.thepurplepenny.com/1281,australia-1952m-shilling-1s-gem-uncirculated-pcgs-ms66.html
Hahaha.. Good work Mark, all the best with the sale... I always wondered who knocked my MS 65 off the equal finest position :angel:.. Now I know where it is :yahoo:
Would be very interesting it see what happens !
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='49069' dateline='1400047009'Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='49067' dateline='1400046631'Will you take $20 BIN?:ebay:
C'mon that's less than slabbing costs.
Last month I got a PCGS MS66 1962 sixpence on ebay by offering $18. Your coin isn't a higher grade and only worth 5 cents more (face value). I offer a whole 2 dollars more and you turn it down?
That's the problem with dealers and slabbing costs, unless you have a really desirable coin (like yours) then the dealer has to factor in selling lots of coins (like my $18 coin) for less than cost.
Would it be fair to say that PPH, WWWW etc lose on the majority of coins that they slab but make it up on the ones like this shilling?
If I hadn't just purchased/bought another house for cash, I might have been interested. But I am afraid I shall have to pass.
Nice coin though.
Wish you luck in the sale.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='49091' dateline='1400066176'Would it be fair to say that PPH, WWWW etc lose on the majority of coins that they slab but make it up on the ones like this shilling?
No.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='49091' dateline='1400066176'That's the problem with dealers and slabbing costs, unless you have a really desirable coin (like yours) then the dealer has to factor in selling lots of coins (like my $18 coin) for less than cost.
Would it be fair to say that PPH, WWWW etc lose on the majority of coins that they slab but make it up on the ones like this shilling?
I cannot comment on others but PPH and I are extremely selective with what we purchase and send to PCGS. We do this because we do not buy from the public and only from other dealers and thus must be very careful with what we do buy. We don't send rolls over unchecked and we don't send coins over to just to complete sets. We send them over because we believe there's a profit to be made in that particular coin. Because of this we do not have the volume of material that many others do. It also means that more often that not we can sell a coin for a profit.
Generally regarding margins this MS66 is the exception rather than the rule and the margins on most of our other coins are much smaller. We certainly do not double our money on the vast majority of coins, not even remotely close. And, we do lose money on some coins but that's a natural consequence of doing business.
I've said it before but PPH would be better off stacking shelves in a supermarket rather than spending the 30-40 hours a week she spends working on The Purple Penny. Plus there's the several hours a week I spend working on it too.
For a real world example, take this coin:
http://www.thepurplepenny.com/1000,australia-1962-shilling-1s-gem-uncirculated-pcgs-ms65.html
There's nearly $30 of slabbing costs in that. Plus probably at least 30 minutes to an hour of labour (finding the coin, submitting it, taking a picture of it, listing it on the website). All for a profit of $9 of which the government takes their cut in GST (PCGS fees are GST exempt so we lose out there). Seems like an extreme example but these sorts of coins are the bread and butter of the business. I can assure you we're not getting rich doing this :)
[/quote]
Would it be fair to say that PPH, WWWW etc lose on the majority of coins that they slab but make it up on the ones like this shilling?
[/quote]
It would probably be fair to say that with experience in getting coins PCGS slabbed then you should be able to estimate what a coin will grade and so only send over coins those coins that you can make money on thereby not ending up with too many dogs
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='49167' dateline='1400127224'
Would it be fair to say that PPH, WWWW etc lose on the majority of coins that they slab but make it up on the ones like this shilling?
[/quote]
It would probably be fair to say that with experience in getting coins PCGS slabbed then you should be able to estimate what a coin will grade and so only send over coins those coins that you can make money on thereby not ending up with too many dogs
[/quote]
It is not that hard to "estimate" what a coin will grade but I doubt that anyone can tell 100% how a coin will grade.
That 1962 Shilling for example could have gone MS66 and become a $200 coin instead of a $50 coin, There IS an element of risk doing this sort of thing unless you have something exceptional to submit.
It is all well and good us collectors "dabbling" in the slabbing game because at the end of the day we don't "Have" to get it right to put bread on the table, If we get it wrong then NO biggie we just pick up our normal pay cheque and carry on.
If a dealer gets it wrong too many times they will go hungry.
I would think that there are FAR more collectors driving about in "Flash" Cars than Dealers do :ok:
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='49100' dateline='1400074505'If I hadn't just purchased/bought another house for cash, I might have been interested. But I am afraid I shall have to pass.
Nice coin though.
Wish you luck in the sale.
wow
good on you buying a house for cash!
my one & only house is still on a cashless system - AKA - credit!! ha ha
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='49165' dateline='1400126595'Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='49091' dateline='1400066176'Would it be fair to say that PPH, WWWW etc lose on the majority of coins that they slab but make it up on the ones like this shilling?
No.
And yet I see more slabbed pre decimals sell for sub $40 than above $40. For example on Numisbid of 202 QEII sixpences sold in PCGS slabs only 80 coins made $40 or more. Plenty sold below $20 and some were a steal (1962 MS65 for $7.50 or 1958 MS63 for $1.50).
So alot of people are getting it wrong in selecting coins to slab, but like racehorses you only need to pick a few winners to recoup on the wrong punts.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='49233' dateline='1400162504'Quote from: 'emu666' pid='49165' dateline='1400126595'Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='49091' dateline='1400066176'Would it be fair to say that PPH, WWWW etc lose on the majority of coins that they slab but make it up on the ones like this shilling?
No.
And yet I see more slabbed pre decimals sell for sub $40 than above $40. For example on Numisbid of 202 QEII sixpences sold in PCGS slabs only 80 coins made $40 or more. Plenty sold below $20 and some were a steal (1962 MS65 for $7.50 or 1958 MS63 for $1.50).
So alot of people are getting it wrong in selecting coins to slab, but like racehorses you only need to pick a few winners to recoup on the wrong punts.
You are incorrect.
Every day at work I select coins to be sent to PCGS.
For obvious commercial reasons I am not at liberty to disclose what percentage we make a profit on or the way we decide what to send and how they arwe sent but can assure you there are very few coins we lose on.
We can actually just break even on selling a late date sixpence for $20. If it had been submitted two years ago we would have made a small profit.
By the way
YOU ARE INCORRECT
QuoteEvery day at work I select coins to be sent to PCGS.
From what you have shown us of your Slabbed Dollar coin collection I say you select rather well Mate :yahoo:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='49182' dateline='1400133483'If a dealer gets it wrong too many times they will go hungry.
I would think that there are FAR more collectors driving about in "Flash" Cars than Dealers do :ok:
hummmm or local coin dealer owns ... what it is now? 6 houses?
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='49235' dateline='1400174644'We can actually just break even on selling a late date sixpence for $20. If it had been submitted two years ago we would have made a small profit.
By the way
YOU ARE INCORRECT
Didn't know emus could shout (Yeah, I know I can be a grating bugger).
Between buying the raw coins, paying overheads, registered post and insurance (both to/from California) you/Stuart Anderson must be getting a good bulk rate on slabbing to break even at $20.
At that rate ($20) over a quarter of the QEII sixpences still come up in the red on Numisbid. I'll take both PPH and our word that your selection batting average is much better than that; I'm also confident that Walter is also very experienced at choosing the right coins to slab. But SOMEBODY has to be getting it wrong because I've had no difficulty in picking up nice QEII slabs for less than $20 on fleabay and dozens of other buyers have done the same at Numisbid.
I see plenty of coins make under $20 in a decent grade and just a grade higher they are over $100. It's a numbers game and the seller of a sub $20 coin will more than recoup his loss on another similar coin that grades slightly higher.
BTW I am surprised that coins that were slabbed over 2 years ago can be profitable at sub $20. Even if the slabbing was effectively cheaper then (especially as the AUD was above parity) the opportunity cost (or interest) on the tied up funds cuts that benefit down.
QuoteDidn't know emus could shout (Yeah, I know I can be a grating bugger).
Between buying the raw coins, paying overheads, registered post and insurance (both to/from California) you/Stuart Anderson must be getting a good bulk rate on slabbing to break even at $20.
At that rate ($20) over a quarter of the QEII sixpences still come up in the red on Numisbid. I'll take both PPH and our word that your selection batting average is much better than that; I'm also confident that Walter is also very experienced at choosing the right coins to slab. But SOMEBODY has to be getting it wrong because I've had no difficulty in picking up nice QEII slabs for less than $20 on fleabay and dozens of other buyers have done the same at Numisbid.
I see plenty of coins make under $20 in a decent grade and just a grade higher they are over $100. It's a numbers game and the seller of a sub $20 coin will more than recoup his loss on another similar coin that grades slightly higher.
BTW I am surprised that coins that were slabbed over 2 years ago can be profitable at sub $20. Even if the slabbing was effectively cheaper then (especially as the AUD was above parity) the opportunity cost (or interest) on the tied up funds cuts that benefit down.
Economy without the pic's is $20 per coin and Modern without the pic's is $16 per coin I imagine that these would average out to be $20 with the postage if sent in large submissions (The more you send the cheaper the postage per coin) :ok:
I am an absolute novice at the "Slabbing game" but I haven't fallen down a hole yet and have sent well over 100 coins away in the last 8 months.
I may have an angel looking over my shoulder because I have actually made a few quid doing this.
I used to spend $1500 - $2000 per month of my own money on coins , I still spend a few quid but nowhere near as much because the money I derive from selling a few slabs subsidises my coin affliction.
Anyway it is a hell of a lot of fun doing it :yahoo:
I still add to my collections all the time and this way I get to "Cherry pick" as well :dance2:
Getting back to the original post.
I recon this is a $50 coin any day and was unfortunate to not to get a MS66 grade :ok:
yes I am surprised that runway hasn't popped into remind us about topics!
you're slippin runway - hop to it!!
QuoteGetting back to the original post.
I recon this is a $50 coin any day and was unfortunate to not to get a MS66 grade Ok
Looking at the wrong coin:blush:
This is the one I meant
http://www.thepurplepenny.com/1000,australia-1962-shilling-1s-gem-uncirculated-pcgs-ms65.html
Quote from: 'trout' pid='49334' dateline='1400280453'QuoteGetting back to the original post.
I recon this is a $50 coin any day and was unfortunate to not to get a MS66 grade Ok
Looking at the wrong coin:blush:
This is the one I meant
http://www.thepurplepenny.com/1000,australia-1962-shilling-1s-gem-uncirculated-pcgs-ms65.html
You are a brave man to attempt to grade a coin of that high a grade from a photograph.
I have a MS66 1962 shilling and PP's coin looks pretty much the same as mine :ok:
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=2628282-010
The photograph is taken from just one angle. It can miss nasties such as a hairline scratch or two which you would pick up by looking at the coin from different angles. For that you need to have the coin in hand.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='49336' dateline='1400281276'I have a MS66 1962 shilling and PP's coin looks pretty much the same as mine :ok:
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=2628282-010
NGC and PCGS do not grade the same way. Do not make the mistake of comparing the two and expecting a 1 to 1 relationship. That isn't me saying that, that's the market. The general perception is that NGC does not grade as harshly as PCGS.
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='49337' dateline='1400281486'The photograph is taken from just one angle. It can miss nasties such as a hairline scratch or two which you would pick up by looking at the coin from different angles. For that you need to have the coin in hand.
I intend to do just that :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='49339' dateline='1400281705'Quote from: 'emu666' pid='49337' dateline='1400281486'The photograph is taken from just one angle. It can miss nasties such as a hairline scratch or two which you would pick up by looking at the coin from different angles. For that you need to have the coin in hand.
I intend to do just that :angel:
Congratulations.
The coin does look pretty.
QuoteCongratulations.
The coin does look pretty.
It will also be an outstanding way to check how the 2 TPG's grade as well :good:
QuoteNGC and PCGS do not grade the same way. Do not make the mistake of comparing the two and expecting a 1 to 1 relationship. That isn't me saying that, that's the market. The general perception is that NGC does not grade as harshly as PCGS.
This why it is a great opportunity for me personally to test that theory by looking at the 2 coins side by side.
If they are identical quality coins then I will have to agree with you But if the MS65 coin is not as nice as the MS66 coin then that would make the 2 companies on a par.
As these are totally random coins I would think this is a far test.
I have tested NGC out previously by sending a 1938 Crown graded AU58 by PCGS that I "Cracked out" and it came back in an NGC slab as AU58
To be totally fair with the appraisal of these two coins I suggest that after I have had a good squiz at these coins, I send them to Mark so that He can make his decision then he sends them to Emu for his appraisal.
After everyone has had a good look at them and if Emu is willing It would be nice if Emu could sell them and send the funds to Ozcoins for his "Beyond Blue" Project.
These are the 2 coins we are talking about :ok:
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=2628282-010
http://www.thepurplepenny.com/1000,australia-1962-shilling-1s-gem-uncirculated-pcgs-ms65.html
Quote from: 'trout' pid='49395' dateline='1400364736'This why it is a great opportunity for me personally to test that theory by looking at the 2 coins side by side.
If they are identical quality coins then I will have to agree with you But if the MS65 coin is not as nice as the MS66 coin then that would make the 2 companies on a par.
As these are totally random coins I would think this is a far test.
You're going to need a much bigger sample size of coins than two to be able to make a fair comparison or learn anything. But I admire your intent.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='49395' dateline='1400364736'I have tested NGC out previously by sending a 1938 Crown graded AU58 by PCGS that I "Cracked out" and it came back in an NGC slab as AU58
Uh, you seem to have forgotten about your ducat that was an NGC MS63, no graded at PCGS and then graded MS65 at NGC.
QuoteYou're going to need a much bigger sample size of coins than two to be able to make a fair comparison or learn anything. But I admire your intent.
I agree that the sample is small but if we can do this a few more times we will get an accurate assessment eventually. :good:
Are you willing to have a look for me and send the coins to Peter when you are done with them?
If so all I need is for Emu to come to the party and Beyond Blue will be the ultimate winner at the end of the day :yahoo:
Maybe we could get Walter and his brother in on this as well :)
Quote from: 'markn' pid='49397' dateline='1400366230'Quote from: 'trout' pid='49395' dateline='1400364736'I have tested NGC out previously by sending a 1938 Crown graded AU58 by PCGS that I "Cracked out" and it came back in an NGC slab as AU58
Uh, you seem to have forgotten about your ducat that was an NGC MS63, no graded at PCGS and then graded MS65 at NGC.
You and I both know that PCGS "Got it wrong" on that coin and I for one totally disagreed with their assessment of the coin :ok:
As for the 2 grade jump by NGC then that is a little strange or the original graders may have been "Tough" on it.
Both of these companies are grading to the same system (Sheldon) and both are World renowned For their accuracy ( Neither are Perfect) So I would assume that they grade their coins the same.
Just out of curiosity I may send the Ducat back to PCGS as a "Crossover" and see what happens there.:angel:
The auction for this coin is now live. Scheduled to finish Sunday June 1 at about 8PM eastern time.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281344402329
Quote from: 'markn' pid='49855' dateline='1400755044'The auction for this coin is now live. Scheduled to finish Sunday June 1 at about 8PM eastern time.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281344402329
And it's off and racing
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='49857' dateline='1400755942'Quote from: 'markn' pid='49855' dateline='1400755044'The auction for this coin is now live. Scheduled to finish Sunday June 1 at about 8PM eastern time.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281344402329
And it's off and racing
What a beautiful coin... Very interesting to see if an Aussie get to keep it here... :idea:
Hope it will stay in Australia
Just received the MS65 1962 Shilling From PP.
Very nice coin indeed:good:
I have just returned from the bush and picked the coin up at the post office.
When I put the PCGS MS65 coin alongside the NGC MS66 coin the difference is very apparent the MS66 coin is indeed a superior coin.
I will Try and get a couple of picks tomorrow.
So far so good for NGC , But this is a Minute sampling and more work will have to be done to say if NGC is up to par with PCGS or not:ok:
I just had a squiz at Marks eBay listing for the 1952m Shilling and IMHO the bids are still "LOW Ball" so far and has a long way to go to be fair value for that coin :ok:
Gee mate I'll have to call you the slab king if ya keep going :laugh2: Sounds like your getting quite the stable so I really am gonna have to come for a visit..and maybe look at a few coins :friends:
QuoteGee mate I'll have to call you the slab king
FAR from it Mate :ok:
But the upward learning curve as far as grading goes is worth every penny spent on slabbing.
When you put yourself up against the graders at PCGS and NGC you quickly learn to reassess your abilities and look at your coins harder and in a new light.
I do recommend every collector to get at least 3-5 coins graded just so that they can see how they are going at self grading coins.
It is NOT a huge outlay and the rewards are priceless as far as a reality check goes .
i think that you may need to make sure that you compare like with like too
i.e. 1962 shilling against another 1962 shilling
I believe that there are significant strike type and differences between the years and the Perth and Melbourne mints
so, for example a Melbourne 1964 MS 64 penny will look completely different to the Perth even in the 'same' grade & colour designation
Quotethink that you may need to make sure that you compare like with like too
i.e. 1962 shilling against another 1962 shilling
That is Exactly what I did RG.
2x coins from the same mint , Both were 1962 Shillings :ok:
you are a good boy
gee Rg don't tell'im that or it'll go to is ead :)
:stop:
:off_topic:
Hey Mark.
They've hijacked your thread!!!!
dunno really
I think that started about 4 pages ago
maybe by about post number 9 or so ha ha
ebay listing link
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281344402329#shpCntId
Back on Topic Quote from: 'markn' pid='49062' dateline='1400042316'Australia 1952 Shilling in PCGS MS66. Single finest graded as of May 2014. Will be auctioned with a 99c start on eBay starting 22 May and ending Sunday June 1.
http://www.thepurplepenny.com/1281,australia-1952m-shilling-1s-gem-uncirculated-pcgs-ms66.html
Quote from: 'trout' pid='50430' dateline='1401253380'Just received the MS65 1962 Shilling From PP.
Very nice coin indeed:good:
I have just returned from the bush and picked the coin up at the post office.
When I put the PCGS MS65 coin alongside the NGC MS66 coin the difference is very apparent the MS66 coin is indeed a superior coin.
I will Try and get a couple of picks tomorrow.
So far so good for NGC , But this is a Minute sampling and more work will have to be done to say if NGC is up to par with PCGS or not:ok:
I just had a squiz at Marks eBay listing for the 1952m Shilling and IMHO the bids are still "LOW Ball" so far and has a long way to go to be fair value for that coin :ok:
O/T If you really want a statistically significant sampling take a couple of mint rolls and send every other coin off to either PCGS or NGC. Even then you cannot make a blanket statement as either may be tougher on proofs V circulation or decimal V pre-decimal or US coins V some/all other countries.
Back on topic. Just shy of 2 grand with 4 days to go. Maybe we should run a guessing competition to see who guesses closest to the final price. My guess is $8,700.
My guess would be $3807.07
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='50472' dateline='1401272944':stop:
:off_topic:
Hey Mark.
They've hijacked your thread!!!!
http://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=2628&pid=50484#pid50484
Problem solved.. I have started another posts to discuss PCGS vs NGC
Man, this is a tough forum :angel:
Less than an hour to go.... Over 2k now.
eBay link (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281344402329&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT)
Wow well done
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='50483' dateline='1401276605'My guess would be $3807.07
QuoteCoin went for $3871.. how close was I :yahoo:
So close, sorry there's no prize. Coin will be going to a loving home.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='50887' dateline='1401617390'So close, sorry there's no prize. Coin will be going to a loving home.
Hahaha .. it's a beautiful coin... New owner will be very happy ! Congrats to PPH and Mark !