Australian-Coins Forum

Numismatic Discussion => Coin Chit Chat => Topic started by: ausjack on May 10, 2014, 06:21:42 AM

Title: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: ausjack on May 10, 2014, 06:21:42 AM
Ok was lookin at some old books yesterday and found this interesting and then notice the mintage figures and surprise surprise they are different to the figures of today but what really caught my eye were the prices of the wavy and think of what they are worth now and look at the price of the 66 50 cent, it's actually pretty cool looking thru these old books/price guides, taken from the 13th ed of renniks so as you can see it ends around 1980
(http://i58.tinypic.com/141723n.jpg)
sorry I should have put this up as well as it was here that I was looking at the figures, taken from RAM site
1978: 37.4 million, RAM
 1979: 22.3 million, RAM
 1980: 84.4 million, RAM
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: Goldseeker on May 10, 2014, 09:41:01 AM
if could buy some 66 Wavey 20c at $30, I'd buy heaps.

I paid $1100 for my UNC several years ago and would still like to buy more.

The 66 50c hasn't changed much compared to the price today.
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: Sapyx on May 10, 2014, 10:56:33 AM
Re: difference in Mintage figures: the current Renniks has the same figure for the 50 cents as the old one pictured above. The Krause world coin catalogue has the same number: 36.454. Only the Maccas Guides seem to have held a differing opinion, of 36.252. I can't think of any reason why exactly 202,000 coins would have gone missing or been incorrectly counted. I assume it's either a typo, or a deliberate error introduced to attempt to detect illicit data theft. Some authors and book publishers do that: deliberately insert a couple of small but distinctive errors into their facts and figures. If Greg McDonald finds anyone else using the wrong 36.252 figure, he can know for sure that they've stolen their coin data from the Maccas Guide.

Re: the comparative price of round fifties in 1980: it has changed, a lot, since then, both up and down. Don't forget, 1980 was at the peak of the Hunt Brothers silver spike. The price of silver collapsed again shortly afterwards.
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: Basil on May 10, 2014, 11:04:57 AM
Yeah,i've still got a couple of books & Newspaper articles out of the 1960's to compare,as i posted in another Thread(1919 penny?) the 1914 penny was in similar in value to the 1946 back in the 60's.The Coin Dealer that attended our School back then always maintained the adjusted mintage of the 1925 Penny,around 117,000,was bullsheet,there was some conjecture at the time from others i remember but it has all faded away now.
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: purplepennyhunter on May 10, 2014, 02:47:45 PM
36 454 000 is the number in the Mint report.

Greg changed it somewhere between the 13th (2005) and 15th (2007) edition.
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: ausjack on May 11, 2014, 05:16:03 AM
Sorry people but please look again at the figures in my first post and compare them as it's not thousands it out, and hundreds of thousands, we are talking millions, so what went wrong :(

oh here's a link to the mint if anyone doesn't believe me so suss it out
http://www.ramint.gov.au/designs/ram-designs/20c.cfm

Thanks for the idea Basil, I'll suss what some of the other coins were like the 30 penny but I'll have to remember when I get back from Kel's.
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: Pedro on May 11, 2014, 07:28:51 AM
Somewhere, I think it was on this forum there was a bit of a discussion when Fulvio was putting together his mintage tables where there were a few discrepancies noted in the RAM's mintage numbers in the link (and their associated friends) that you attached AJ.

The numbers obtained by adding up the mintages from the RAM annual reports didn't always match what the RAM posted as mintages in these links which makes it a little tricky.  

Pedro
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: trout on May 11, 2014, 07:31:15 AM
I would think the "Survival" numbers for pre decimal coins would be more important than the mintage figures.
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: ausjack on May 11, 2014, 07:35:30 AM
yes and no trout as it's good to know how many ARE suppose to be out there..somewhere :scratch_one-s_head: But yes I see where your coming from :)
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: trout on May 11, 2014, 07:38:56 AM
I would imagine that a huge percentage of pre decimal coins would have been melted down by the Mints , Especially the silver coins :ok:
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: ausjack on May 11, 2014, 07:42:30 AM
yes and have heard of people taking coppers to the scrappies..I'd give them all a good home :cray:

Ok here's a good one that I found very interesting, just sussed the 1930 penny, Walters blue sheet says 3000, 08 Mac says 3000 14 mac says 1200, 65 renniks says 1200 and then in the 13th ed about 80 it was up to 3000 then 43rd ed has .003M and then the 47th has it at 3K so there's a bit of difference there.

ok thought I'd put some prices up as well
1965 rennik G=80 pound, VG=90, F=100, VF=125 ponds
1980 rennik now starts at VG=$4000, F=5K, VF=6K, EF=10K, BU=30K and proof=100K
2007 rennik VG=17.5K, F=25K,VF=50K, EF=120K, aUnc=175K, Unc=250K, ChUnc=375K, Gem=500K
2008 mac VG=18.5K, F=27K, VF=55K, EF=120K, aUnc=160K, Unc=250K, ChUnc=375K, Gem=500K and proof is now $1M
2011 rennik VG=18K, F=26.5K, VF=55K, EF=135K, aUnc=200K, Unc=300K, ChUnc=450K and Gem=650K
2014 mac VG=19K, F=25K, VF=50K, EF=140K, aUnc=210K, Unc=325K, ChUnc=475K, Gem=750K and Proof is now a huge $1.5M

Now I'm not having a go at anyone about anything I just find it interesting looking at old figures and seeing where they are today, so no offence to anyone :)
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: serial on May 11, 2014, 11:47:29 AM
I have a 1970 renniks 6th ed - 1930 PENNY - VG=350 F=400 VF=450 EF=700 BU=2500
1923 half penny - VG=40 F=50 VF=65 EF=90 BU=440
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: ausjack on May 11, 2014, 09:13:38 PM
gee didn't the 30's penny jump from the 70's to the 80's, thanks serial.
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: serial on May 12, 2014, 12:12:11 AM
no prob aj
I also have a 1978 readers digest "guide to aus coins - 1930 PENNY - F=1400 VF=2600 EF=4500BU=9000
 1923 half penny -  F=125 VF=250 EF=425 BU=1500
and a 1985 coins and banknotes of Australia by Stephen Prior  - 1930 PENNY - VG=4000 F=5000 VF=9000 EF=25000 BU=75000
 1923 half penny - VG=325 F=400 VF=750 EF=2000 BU=6000
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: nealeffendi on May 12, 2014, 12:44:59 AM
Quote from: 'serial' pid='48837' dateline='1399774649'I have a 1970 renniks 6th ed - 1930 PENNY - VG=350 F=400 VF=450 EF=700 BU=2500
1923 half penny - VG=40 F=50 VF=65 EF=90 BU=440

Those sorts of figures are why it is difficult to take the catalogues seriously. How can back then a VG be worth 350 and VF only a hundred more at 450 when there are many hundreds (perhaps a thousand) of them in VG to F grade but in VF there is less than 50. Also there has never been a BU 1930 sighted (unless they count the 6 proof/specimen coins). That makes the 2500 figure something plucked from the poop chute.
The latest catalogues are no better as they underprice the GEM coins and overprice the banknotes (often by a factor of 10).
Title: RE: why do mint figures change over the years
Post by: Basil on May 12, 2014, 10:05:03 AM
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='48883' dateline='1399808618'gee didn't the 30's penny jump from the 70's to the 80's, thanks serial.

Probaly stating the obvious but the value of the key dates really exploded in the early 60's when the change to Decimal currency was announced,i think the Catalogue values took a while to catch up but the 1930 Penny did rapidly rise in value after the early 1970's slump.

Scans from the other Thread....Renniks 4th edition 1966.I have some interesting Newspaper articles from the same period i will post them when i get home later in the year.

(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/IMG_0002.jpg)


(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/IMG_0001.jpg)