Is it time to get all your 1946 pennies and send them off to PCGS?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/360503111835?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
You have to love ebay and Greg McDonald. :whistle2:
Madness!!!!!!
At the risk of :dead_horse:
Its because of the confusion between the Sheldon and ANDA grading systems.
The seller and presumably the bidders are assuming that AU50 = aUNC.
In reality that coin is closer to gVF to aEF and would have a book value of no more than $400.
It is one of the reasons that I never buy slabbed coins.
Quote from: 'MobOfRoos' pid='2619' dateline='1352201036'At the risk of :dead_horse:
Its because of the confusion between the Sheldon and ANDA grading systems.
The seller and presumably the bidders are assuming that AU50 = aUNC.
In reality that coin is closer to gVF to aEF and would have a book value of no more than $400.
It is one of the reasons that I never buy slabbed coins.
I agree that the Sheldon scale is not really combatable with the anda standard and a slabbed coin will always appear to be a lesser grade but you have to understand the Sheldon system to equate this.
Unfortunately a great deal of Aussie collectors are being duped/misguided by the grades put on the slabbed coins due to this.
I feel (unfortunately) that a lot of sellers/dealers are taking advantage of this at the moment because of the apparent increase in grades and the fact that they are graded by TPG's.
The old story of "Buy the coin not the slab" will always apply
Quote from: 'MobOfRoos' pid='2619' dateline='1352201036'At the risk of :dead_horse:
Its because of the confusion between the Sheldon and ANDA grading systems.
The seller and presumably the bidders are assuming that AU50 = aUNC.
In reality that coin is closer to gVF to aEF and would have a book value of no more than $400.
It is one of the reasons that I never buy slabbed coins.
AU50 is only worth $100 imo; But the slab says AU55 which would put it at around EF and a value of around $250. To me this is just an overgrading seller trying to pass his opinion off as PCGS'. PCGS graded this coin AU55, they didn't give it an Australian about UNC grading so the already inflated McD value is invalid anyway.
Here is yet another one
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1946-Australian-Penny-Pcgs-Au58-Awesome-Coin-/110971143873?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D18%26pmod%3D360503111835%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3278042242355547932
Where are these people getting their values from?
This is a $500 coin yet the seller states this is valued at $2000:dodgy:
1) Waist of money slabbing
2) Seller is a shark
3) Buyer is an idiot
IMHO ebay needs a huge overhaul on selling anything that is not a packaged by the mint item....this includes slabbed coins. On aussie ebay you should only be allowed to use an Aussie grading standard on aussie coins and banknotes and should not be allowed to show at all the grading supplied by a non Australian entity that is not proficient in grading using an Aussie grading standard. This way no buyer can be deceived like this listing shows. No mention of a catalogue value should be allowed...again this will assist in not pushing an auction price up to a ficticious value. Lastly I would have it so that no gradings at all can be mentioned unless you are a professional dealer with a brick and mortar shop. There are too many hobbiest/backyarders that just do not know how to grade (or dont have the experience to grade) or dont give a damn they are ripping someone off or have no care about the industry. I hear too often of real gradings and ebay gradings. This can not be good.
The amount of customers I have coming into my shop asking opinions on overpaid coin and banknotes because of incorrectly graded items on ebay is getting higher and higher. I would argue there is no confidence in the market in general with predecimal coins and banknotes. From a dealer point of view there is no point listing decent material on ebay because of this ever increasing problem of buyers getting ripped off causing no confidence in the market. This means true pricing is just not there any more.
I know what I am saying will annoy a few of you but the reality is that a good 70 to 80% of ebay sellers do not know how to grade and even a greater percentage of buyers do not know how to grade. A huge percentage of buyers do not know the difference between different grading standards used by different counties. So even though it will annoy a lot of the hobbiests that sell on ebay some very strict rules are needed to prevent buyers getting ripped off like what has happened above.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='2628' dateline='1352244881'1) Waist of money slabbing
2) Seller is a shark
3) Buyer is an idiot
IMHO ebay needs a huge overhaul on selling anything that is not a packaged by the mint item....this includes slabbed coins. On aussie ebay you should only be allowed to use an Aussie grading standard on aussie coins and banknotes and should not be allowed to show at all the grading supplied by a non Australian entity that is not proficient in grading using an Aussie grading standard. This way no buyer can be deceived like this listing shows. No mention of a catalogue value should be allowed...again this will assist in not pushing an auction price up to a ficticious value. Lastly I would have it so that no gradings at all can be mentioned unless you are a professional dealer with a brick and mortar shop. There are too many hobbiest/backyarders that just do not know how to grade (or dont have the experience to grade) or dont give a damn they are ripping someone off or have no care about the industry. I hear too often of real gradings and ebay gradings. This can not be good.
The amount of customers I have coming into my shop asking opinions on overpaid coin and banknotes because of incorrectly graded items on ebay is getting higher and higher. I would argue there is no confidence in the market in general with predecimal coins and banknotes. From a dealer point of view there is no point listing decent material on ebay because of this ever increasing problem of buyers getting ripped off causing no confidence in the market. This means true pricing is just not there any more.
I know what I am saying will annoy a few of you but the reality is that a good 70 to 80% of ebay sellers do not know how to grade and even a greater percentage of buyers do not know how to grade. A huge percentage of buyers do not know the difference between different grading standards used by different counties. So even though it will annoy a lot of the hobbiests that sell on ebay some very strict rules are needed to prevent buyers getting ripped off like what has happened above.
I tend to agree with most of what you said except where it comes to the part where you say that simply because you own a shop and make a living out of buying/selling coins it makes you a better grader than anyone else.
That is a huge assumption.
I will agree that the B&M operators are more carefull and honest with their grades tho.
I'd clarify the above points and would say that the confusion occurs when grades under the Sheldon system are translated into the descriptive system, not necessarily just into the grades that ANDA has suggested people use as a guide, nor those printed in the McDonald and Renniks books.
While it's obvious whoever bought that 1946 penny has paid much more than they needed to for it, were they really ripped off? It was a 99 cent auction after all, and any shill bidding aside, there wasn't anyone pushing the winner's bids up. The buyer has only got himself to blame.
More than a few people buying (and selling) coins these days do it because they think there's a quick buck in it, they'll come and go. We only need to see the figures that obviously counterfeit coins still go for on eBay to see that some people will do their dough no matter what checks and balances are put in place - coins described as counterfeits still sell for hundreds of dollars!
Any collector that's serious takes the time to actually learn the market for the items they're interested in - they'll still makes mistakes, but they won't be as daft as that. Any seller that's serious understands the value in not stiffing their customers blind - eBay just isn't the venue for this kind of product or trader at the moment apparently.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='2627' dateline='1352241700'Here is yet another one
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1946-Australian-Penny-Pcgs-Au58-Awesome-Coin-/110971143873?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D18%26pmod%3D360503111835%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3278042242355547932
Where are these people getting their values from?
This is a $500 coin yet the seller states this is valued at $2000:dodgy:
Probably from McDonalds - it's one of the coins that's heavily overvalued - my McD book says $1800, I'm guessing $2000 is value in the newer one. $500 is more realistic for this coin.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='2628' dateline='1352244881'1) Waist of money slabbing
2) Seller is a shark
3) Buyer is an idiot
IMHO ebay needs a huge overhaul on selling anything that is not a packaged by the mint item....this includes slabbed coins. On aussie ebay you should only be allowed to use an Aussie grading standard on aussie coins and banknotes and should not be allowed to show at all the grading supplied by a non Australian entity that is not proficient in grading using an Aussie grading standard. This way no buyer can be deceived like this listing shows. No mention of a catalogue value should be allowed...again this will assist in not pushing an auction price up to a ficticious value. Lastly I would have it so that no gradings at all can be mentioned unless you are a professional dealer with a brick and mortar shop. There are too many hobbiest/backyarders that just do not know how to grade (or dont have the experience to grade) or dont give a damn they are ripping someone off or have no care about the industry. I hear too often of real gradings and ebay gradings. This can not be good.
The amount of customers I have coming into my shop asking opinions on overpaid coin and banknotes because of incorrectly graded items on ebay is getting higher and higher. I would argue there is no confidence in the market in general with predecimal coins and banknotes. From a dealer point of view there is no point listing decent material on ebay because of this ever increasing problem of buyers getting ripped off causing no confidence in the market. This means true pricing is just not there any more.
I know what I am saying will annoy a few of you but the reality is that a good 70 to 80% of ebay sellers do not know how to grade and even a greater percentage of buyers do not know how to grade. A huge percentage of buyers do not know the difference between different grading standards used by different counties. So even though it will annoy a lot of the hobbiests that sell on ebay some very strict rules are needed to prevent buyers getting ripped off like what has happened above.
Would you buy off another dealer based on their grading just because they have a brick and mortar shop? If the answer is no then you can't really expect collectors to. The market has little faith in brick and mortar dealers on-line because their main advantage in the past was that collectors could view the coin in hand - that has little relevance on-line.
I've found the keys to selling coins on-line are quality and honest photographs, third party certification and unconditional return policies - if you follow these three points your coins will sell well.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='2628' dateline='1352244881'IMHO ebay needs a huge overhaul on selling anything that is not a packaged by the mint item....this includes slabbed coins. On aussie ebay you should only be allowed to use an Aussie grading standard on aussie coins and banknotes and should not be allowed to show at all the grading supplied by a non Australian entity that is not proficient in grading using an Aussie grading standard.
Nice idea in principal but who is going to arbiter compliance with Australian grading standards? Most dealers either online or b&m dealers just aren't capable of doing so. Just go and pick 10 of the same coins graded to the same level by 10 different ANDA dealers and you'll see a huge variation.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='2635' dateline='1352250056'Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='2628' dateline='1352244881'IMHO ebay needs a huge overhaul on selling anything that is not a packaged by the mint item....this includes slabbed coins. On aussie ebay you should only be allowed to use an Aussie grading standard on aussie coins and banknotes and should not be allowed to show at all the grading supplied by a non Australian entity that is not proficient in grading using an Aussie grading standard.
Nice idea in principal but who is going to arbiter compliance with Australian grading standards? Most dealers either online or b&m dealers just aren't capable of doing so. Just go and pick 10 of the same coins graded to the same level by 10 different ANDA dealers and you'll see a huge variation.
Is there an Australian Standard for Grading
Decimal issues.
If there is, point me in the right direction.
Quote from: 'acrellin' pid='2633' dateline='1352249393'I'd clarify the above points and would say that the confusion occurs when grades under the Sheldon system are translated into the descriptive system, not necessarily just into the grades that ANDA has suggested people use as a guide, nor those printed in the McDonald and Renniks books.
While it's obvious whoever bought that 1946 penny has paid much more than they needed to for it, were they really ripped off? It was a 99 cent auction after all, and any shill bidding aside, there wasn't anyone pushing the winner's bids up. The buyer has only got himself to blame.
More than a few people buying (and selling) coins these days do it because they think there's a quick buck in it, they'll come and go. We only need to see the figures that obviously counterfeit coins still go for on eBay to see that some people will do their dough no matter what checks and balances are put in place - coins described as counterfeits still sell for hundreds of dollars!
Any collector that's serious takes the time to actually learn the market for the items they're interested in - they'll still makes mistakes, but they won't be as daft as that. Any seller that's serious understands the value in not stiffing their customers blind - eBay just isn't the venue for this kind of product or trader at the moment apparently.
All excellent points. I believe the key to the whole Sheldon grading vs other systems is educating collectors (and more than a few dealers) that they are different. That's all, just different. There are without doubt unscrupulous sellers who seek to leverage the lack of knowledge that some collectors have and this is a shame. But there are also collectors out there who will NOT allow themselves to be educated and will pay huge dollars for obvious forgeries, cleaned coins, altered dates, and other problems coins thinking they know everything.
i am one of those collectors that hated the very thought of using the Sheldon system and shoved my head very firmly into the sand.
I have since come to see that this is quite a valid system of grading.
As Mark has said it IS different and if you take the time to study it and equate the Sheldon grades with anda grades it will slowly make sense.
The secret for me was to ignore the prefix (eg EF,AU and MS) and concentrate on the numbers ( 45,50,58 64 and so on) you will be able to come to grips with it a whole lot easier.
Pretty similar to MPH and KPH 60mph=100kph, Same speeds but just a different way of measuring them.
This Sheldon grading has been around for a while and like it or not it IS becoming used more in Aus.
You may not want to embrace this system but it IS to everyones advantage to learn how to understand it.
Instead of just chucking rocks at somthing you don't undestand , Why not take the time and learn how it works.
The fear of this sytem will go away and be replaced by knowlage and understanding if you simply (like I have done) pull your head out of the sand and make the effort to educate yourself.
I am now able to cross referance grades in anda and sheldon with some degree of accuracy and can buy coins graded Sheldon style and know what to expect as an anda gade coin :good:
Just to be clear Trout, the grades aren't "ANDA" grades, they're descriptive grades. ANDA did of course produce a pamphlet that was intended to help collectors to learn how to identify coins in the various descriptive grades, but these same descriptions are used by collectors all over the world, 99.9999% if whom have never heard of ANDA. Descriptive grading isn't unique to ANDA in any way.
Ejamakation is definitely the way forward, regardless of the grading system or standard being used.
Quote from: 'acrellin' pid='2641' dateline='1352253173'Just to be clear Trout, the grades aren't "ANDA" grades, they're descriptive grades. ANDA did of course produce a pamphlet that was intended to help collectors to learn how to identify coins in the various descriptive grades, but these same descriptions are used by collectors all over the world, 99.9999% if whom have never heard of ANDA. Descriptive grading isn't unique to ANDA in any way.
Ejamakation is definitely the way forward, regardless of the grading system or standard being used.
No worries I will still refer to the Aussie grading sytem as anda, I'm not THAT educated:crazy_pilot:
The only reason the Sheldon scale is in Australia is because of slabbing. You get rid of slabbing and you get rid of the sheldon scale in Australia.
By adding the Sheldon scale into the mix you are doing nothing but complicating what should be simple.
My whole point is ebay is allowing people to be ripped off by allowing deceptive practices.....ie grading system is that not the standard in Australia, incorrect gradings by novices or the the rip off merchant and by suggesting a coins value based on...lets face it...works of fiction catalogues. By allowing this it devalues the industry and, lets spell it out here, peoples collections. The listing provided in this thread prove that else this thread would not have been started. The sad thing is that there are ebay listings that are a lot worse than these mentioned.
It is not a case of understanding a particular grading system, it is improving the listing standard on ebay so people are not ripped off.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='2643' dateline='1352253879'The only reason the Sheldon scale is in Australia is because of slabbing. You get rid of slabbing and you get rid of the sheldon scale in Australia.
By adding the Sheldon scale into the mix you are doing nothing but complicating what should be simple.
My whole point is ebay is allowing people to be ripped off by allowing deceptive practices.....ie grading system is that not the standard in Australia, incorrect gradings by novices or the the rip off merchant and by suggesting a coins value based on...lets face it...works of fiction catalogues. By allowing this it devalues the industry and, lets spell it out here, peoples collections. The listing provided in this thread prove that else this thread would not have been started. The sad thing is that there are ebay listings that are a lot worse than these mentioned.
It is not a case of understanding a particular grading system, it is improving the listing standard on ebay so people are not ripped off.
i am certainly not a fan of slabbed coins but unfortunatly I feel that they are here to stay :(
There is a way that these dodgy sellers can be picked out and that is by looking at their feedback.
This is not infalable but it is better than nothing.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='2628' dateline='1352244881'1) Waist of money slabbing
2) Seller is a shark
3) Buyer is an idiot
IMHO ebay needs a huge overhaul on selling anything that is not a packaged by the mint item....this includes slabbed coins. On aussie ebay you should only be allowed to use an Aussie grading standard on aussie coins and banknotes and should not be allowed to show at all the grading supplied by a non Australian entity that is not proficient in grading using an Aussie grading standard. This way no buyer can be deceived like this listing shows. No mention of a catalogue value should be allowed...again this will assist in not pushing an auction price up to a ficticious value. Lastly I would have it so that no gradings at all can be mentioned unless you are a professional dealer with a brick and mortar shop. There are too many hobbiest/backyarders that just do not know how to grade (or dont have the experience to grade) or dont give a damn they are ripping someone off or have no care about the industry. I hear too often of real gradings and ebay gradings. This can not be good.
The amount of customers I have coming into my shop asking opinions on overpaid coin and banknotes because of incorrectly graded items on ebay is getting higher and higher. I would argue there is no confidence in the market in general with predecimal coins and banknotes. From a dealer point of view there is no point listing decent material on ebay because of this ever increasing problem of buyers getting ripped off causing no confidence in the market. This means true pricing is just not there any more.
I know what I am saying will annoy a few of you but the reality is that a good 70 to 80% of ebay sellers do not know how to grade and even a greater percentage of buyers do not know how to grade. A huge percentage of buyers do not know the difference between different grading standards used by different counties. So even though it will annoy a lot of the hobbiests that sell on ebay some very strict rules are needed to prevent buyers getting ripped off like what has happened above.
Does this listing meet your requirements ?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181019751280?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649
:music:
Quite possibly the most :dodgy: looking listing ive ever seen :tease:
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='2658' dateline='1352288690'Quite possibly the most :dodgy: looking listing ive ever seen :tease:
:shock: :P
If this listing is from a professional brick and mortar dealer then it should be graded. No mention of price should be the practice. If it is from a non bricks and mortar dealer... Which in this case, without knowing the seller, probably is.... Then non grading should be the practice so therefore acceptable. It contain facts ( eg no pin holes) and contains no opinions (such as a grade) by a "lay person" that may or may not know what they are talking about.
You must keep in mind a professional dealer must be a registered business with an Abn and registered with the state department of fair trading. This means consumer protection is there if the grading is not as it should be. A buyer buying from a hobbiest or someone selling a "collection" has no consumer protection at all. If these sellers over grade the only recourse is ebays buyer protection which is not worth a pinch of shit anyway. By not allowing these sellers to place a grade on the item I can then avoid them if I choose knowing there is no consumer protection if I buy or can place the grade I believe the item is and bid accordingly.
eBay should across all eBay auction (not just coins and banknotes) have 2 catagories of sellers. The first being professional or business sellers where the buyer knows up front consumer protection laws apply. The second being everyone else where no consumer protection exists. I would then be able to easily select with a little confidence the level of protection I can live with.
As a side to this my partner bought a pair of jeans of eBay for my son that were described as new with tags. The jeans fell apart after the first wash. She contacted the sell who said stick the jeans up your jumper... No refund. eBay/paypals buyer protection sided with the seller. The seller was a mum and dad seller holding an online "garage sale". No consumer protection from fair trading. If they were a business I would have had the law on my side. Unfortunately from the listing I could not tell if it was a business or personal seller. If I had the knowledge then I have a choice. Bring this back to coins if eBay made this information available it might bring some credibility to the eBay coin market making sale prices stronger and therefore making the industry stronger.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='2661' dateline='1352290835'If this listing is from a professional brick and mortar dealer then it should be graded. No mention of price should be the practice. If it is from a non bricks and mortar dealer... Which in this case, without knowing the seller, probably is.... Then non grading should be the practice so therefore acceptable.
You must keep in mind a professional dealer must be a registered business with an Abn and registered with the state department of fair trading. This means consumer protection is there if the grading is not as it should be. A buyer buying from a hobbiest or someone selling a "collection" has no consumer protection at all. If these sellers over grade the only recuse is beats burr protection which is not worth a pinch of shit anyway. By not allowing these sellers to place a grade on the item I can then avoid them if I choose knowing there is no consumer protection if I buy or can place the grade I believe the item is and bid accordingly.
eBay should across all eBay auction (not just coins and banknotes) have 2 catagories of sellers. The first being professional or business sellers where the buyer knows up front consumer protection laws apply. The second being everyone else where no consumer protection exists. I would then be able to easily select with a little confidence the level of protection I can live with.
As a side to this my partner bought a pair of jeans of eBay for my son that were described as new with tags. The jeans fell apart after the first wash. She contacted the sell who said stick the jeans up your jumper... No refund. eBay/paypals buyer protection sided with the seller. The seller was a mum and dad seller holding an online "garage sale". No consumer protection from fair trading. If they were a business I would have had the law on my side. Unfortunately from the listing I could not tell if it was a business or personal seller. If I had the knowledge then I have a choice. Bring this back to coins if eBay made this information available it might bring some credibility to the eBay coin market making sale prices stronger and therefore making the industry stronger.
This is actually one of my listings.
There is "buyer protection" via pay pal and I will always give a full refund if I get a dissatisfied buyer (as long as I get my stuff back).
I have never had to give a refund yet.
Just because an eBay seller has a brick and mortar establishment doesn’t equate that the seller has a good reputation on eBay, this has to be earned and honoured by the seller.
NO free rides for eBay for sellers.
God forbid that we “amateurs†dare to sell our excess coins on eBay without the direct approval of the dealer community.
Without us “amateurs†there would be NO market and wanting to corner/police the eBay market by “a dealer’s only policy†won’t work, eBay is simply an auction avenue that EVERYONE can use.
Sure there is a lot of crap on there (like any other auction held anywhere in the world) and there are always lots that will be hyped up just to sell them.
The secret is sorting through the crap and find the diamonds , most collectors now DO use eBay to buy and sell and we all have been stung at one time or another.
If an eBay seller consistently puts a false grade on a coin banknote the they will gain a bad reputation (same as B&M operations) and will be ignored by the buyers.
So I put it to you, If I put a grade on a coin I am putting MY reputation on the line just the same as a B&M establishment and should have the RIGHT to grade my own coins/notes and build or destroy my reputation.
This may annoy some dealers but some of us “Amateurs†just might actually know what we are talking about
BTW this is getting way :off_topic:
I am not against non dealers selling at all. I have just seen too many of my customers ripped off by non dealers and Paypal/eBay have done nothing. The feedback system is flawed as a lot of unwary buyers do not know they are ripped off until years later when they go to sell. The feedback system is useless then.
My whole point is there are too many deceptive listings on eBay. No matter what forum you are on dealing with any type of goods you find threads about deceptive listings and people that have been ripped off. The reason this thread started in the first place was to highlight yet another example of this.
My argument is eBay needs to do something about it and I have suggested a few areas they can looking within the industry I deal in. If anyone has suggestion I am happy to hear them. It is not about stopping anyone selling but creating a place where people can buy with confidence rather than the lucky dip that occurs now.
There are plenty of dealers out there with a shop who are full of crap. I would sooner buy from someone on ebay with zero feedback than a couple dealers in Australia who have a shop. From what i have witnessed the coin industry is fairly merciless like any other business and the uneducated will get burned. There is of course some dealers (most) that are honest and willing to help.
If youre not able to grade properly from the photos provided then dont bid. You dont walk into a second hand car dealership and buy a car described as immaculate when the door is smashed in and a mirror is missing. You do research first, learn what to look for. If youre happy to take the dealers word for it you will get burned.
In my opinion consumers have the responsibility to educate themselves and if theyre not willing to do so then they will get screwed.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='2674' dateline='1352325526'I am not against non dealers selling at all. I have just seen too many of my customers ripped off by non dealers and Paypal/eBay have done nothing. The feedback system is flawed as a lot of unwary buyers do not know they are ripped off until years later when they go to sell. The feedback system is useless then.
My whole point is there are too many deceptive listings on eBay. No matter what forum you are on dealing with any type of goods you find threads about deceptive listings and people that have been ripped off. The reason this thread started in the first place was to highlight yet another example of this.
My argument is eBay needs to do something about it and I have suggested a few areas they can looking within the industry I deal in. If anyone has suggestion I am happy to hear them. It is not about stopping anyone selling but creating a place where people can buy with confidence rather than the lucky dip that occurs now.
This is why the slabbed coins are coming into play, it removes some of the element of doubt, then again the dodgy brothers can and do dupe people even with these.
I agree that ebay needs cleaning up and I would support any effort to do so.
There will always be dodgy/dishonest eBay sellers, Even if eBay clamped down, these ratbags would find a way of getting through the loop holes.
I think the secret is to educate collectors on the pitfalls and create a data base of these dishonest sellers.
The more educated the collectors get the less of a market for these undesirables there is and they will eventually die out.
Nevol has quite a list of dodgy sellers and I imagine she would be aware of quite a number of these rats.
Now if we all did the same and sent these lists into eBay the we may be able to fumigate a few of them out of there.
But I imagine just like any other vermin, another will take its place.
It would be great to be able to sell to buyers that have confidence in the eBay market place.
But until the buyers are sufficiently educated or the "Bad Apples" have been removed , This unfortunately will never happen.
The slabbed coins (Love them or Hate them) are taking some of the element of doubt in buying for the bay But there are still some dastardly sellers tricking people with these.
I did a test sale not long ago using 2 coins one slabbed and one raw (The raw coin was actually a better coin) and the slabbed coin way out performed the raw coin as far as getting a better price.
But in reality the cost involved in getting a coin graded really didn’t pan out.
I got an extra $31 for the slab and it would have cost about $50 to get it slabbed, so at the end of the day the raw coin was a better sale.
Are we all going to get our coins slabbed just to be able to sell them on eBay?
Unless it is a high value coin this is totally unfeasible.
I don’t know the answer to getting market confidence back, although I would surly love to know.