I got an email from ebay today basically upping ebay fees. They are now going to charge FVF on postage. There suggestion of overcoming this it to not charge postage cost. I basically don't make a profit on postage. I essentially charge Aussie Post rates...now I have to pay a fee on something I make nothing on. It is obvious ebay is against sellers making a livelihood.
I get a very small discount from my suppliers the Royal Australian Mint about 20%, Perth Mint about the same & Downies about 18%. I pay approx. 10% in paypal/ebay fees, essentially halving my profit margin. Now ebay says to me here is another 80c fee on a standard rate parcel or to avoid that here is a profit margin of zero on a $100 item by offering free postage.
Yes I can offer fee post on my Second Hand Goods. My experience however this does not increase FV prices to enough to cover postage costs, particularly so on small value items...say under $50.00, so I generally charge postage....which now is going to attract a fee. Ebay obviously does not care that a small business owner has to cover costs and that they are charging a fee that sellers will just have to absorb.
The online market can not be ignored. The cost of trading online is increasing because of greedy companies like ebay whilst the profit margins of retailers is decreasing. The evidence of this is the fact that the number of professional coin dealers in Australia has decreased severely over the last 10 years. This means that the buyers ability to walk into a shop is ever decreasing. This is very bad for the hobby as it means less new collectors enter the market. The flow on affect is a hobbiests collection is decreasing in value.
If you are a business that deals on ebay your pocket is getting lighter because of ebays greed. If you are a hobbiest you probably don't give a damn now but I can assure you will care later on when you don't get the returns you expect.
Ebays greed need to stop.
About time Trade Me expanded into Australia. They killed eBay in New Zealand. But, are we parochial enough to support a slightly more local competitor -we didn't in the past.
This has been the way eBay in the US and Canada has been for quite a while now.
I think it is aimed at the sellers that sell an item for 99 cents and charge $50 to post it so that they can "Duck" the eBay fees.
this is NOT a new concept at all, we are just catching up with the rest of eBay :ok:
And, what about the sellers that charge postage at cost (in my case less than Australia Post listed rates and less than the eBay discounted rates) and don't charge any packing and handling fee? It seems to me that small sellers doing the right thing by the buyers will be penalised; not just the fees but eBay's obsession with express post and "Free Post" will make it look like they are a bit shonky.
But, it has been obvious, for some time that eBay has been working away from the small seller model and pushing for large "stores". Do a search for something and check the relative number of auction and Buy it Now listings.
I just searched "cargo pants" in "men's clothing -37,917 buy it now and 126 auction!
we might be catching up but it is still a rip off no matter how much you sugar coat it
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='44964' dateline='1395888262'we might be catching up but it is still a rip off no matter how much you sugar coat it
:agreed:
much like the Aussie post price increases :dodgy:
Increasing the base on which the percentage commission is charged looks like a rip-off; unless the percentage rate is dropped.
Guess what? You got it! percentage charged is unchanged -amount charged goes up across the board.
The only way to cover your costs is to up postage by $1 per parcel to cover ebay fees. The market will turn around and say your charging more than Aussie Post charges so they wont by or negative you so most sellers will wear it and a lot will give it away or go out of business.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='44971' dateline='1395892700'...a lot will give it away or go out of business.
We only have ourselves to blame, really. Who handed eBay a monopoly? Who sat by while they gobbled up every competitor? eBay showed their true colours at least as long ago as when they acquired PayPal, then tried to bend the market to suit themselves. How many people withdrew their support in protest at that bit of shonkiness?
There were alternatives. People chose to eradicate those choices. Just how much impact does that now allow, no matter how greedy the bastards get?
Speaking for myself, it will be a cold day in hell before eBay ever see one penny as a result of my activity. I simply refuse to either buy or sell there, and use it only as a reference now. I know that makes no difference, because I'm a minority of one. But it makes me feel better not to support crooks.
Yeah,greedy is the word but Karma cleans up Monopolies eventually,either another competitor or a Govt.I read where a US Senate(?) committee is looking at US Co. trading overseas and not paying Tax,some huge Organisations involved in the probe,Coke,Apple,MS,Ebay etc.
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='44982' dateline='1395896733'a US Senate(?) committee
Every government in the world is on this case, not just the yanks.
Trouble is, being governments, you can virtually guarantee that whatever they pull out of the hat will have unintended consequences, and hurt innocent bystanders far more than the intended targets. :(
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='44988' dateline='1395898009'Quote from: 'Basil' pid='44982' dateline='1395896733'a US Senate(?) committee
Every government in the world is on this case, not just the yanks.
Yeah,i think thats the G8 or G20 looking into Multinationals Taxation liabilities.
I stumbled onto an obscure article a few Months back and it was a US domestic enquiry/probe into US Companies and their overseas interests including Tax avoidance,i think it was a Senate Committee but may have been Treasury.
I think this link was part of it but not much Info out there for some reason. http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2014/03/12/apple-and-microsoft-among-us-tech-giants-reaping-interest-payments-on-offshore-cash/
they might be on the case but will they actually achive anything..I don't think so and think it will be the small fish like us that they are really after (this is always the way), they don't want to hurt big business or make THEM pay like they should..and don't get me started about our rich that avoid taxes, eg the richest woman in the world right here and at our expense I might add :(
Huge amounts of taxes not being paid by companies is a worldwide problem.
Where there are well known dodges (Irish or Dutch sandwich or something like that) it could not be that hard to fix.
How about a Tax on money gong overseas - at least to the countries implicated in the shonky practices, or get them to change the rules allowing the dodges or ban all transactions to those places.
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='45082' dateline='1395965185'Huge amounts of taxes not being paid by companies is a worldwide problem.
Where there are well known dodges (Irish or Dutch sandwich or something like that) it could not be that hard to fix.
How about a Tax on money gong overseas - at least to the countries implicated in the shonky practices, or get them to change the rules allowing the dodges or ban all transactions to those places.
Define "shonky"
That is the problem, countries with bloated government payrolls, welfare queens and high taxes would define low tax countries as shonky.
I buy stuff online from dozens of countries, some have much lower tax rates than Australia or the US. HK and Singapore both have lower tax rates and I have purchased from both. So should Big Brother ban all transactions to those places?
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='45085' dateline='1395966910'That is the problem, countries with bloated government payrolls, welfare queens and high taxes would define low tax countries as shonky.
Quite. Just because you run your economy in such a way that it requires less taxation to support it, does not make you shonky. Quite the opposite, I would argue. Its the porkbarelling high-tax regimes that are the shonky ones.
The entire argument comes down to where income is produced, and where tax is paid. Countries like the US, UK, and of course Oz, see foreign companies earning fortunes from their citizens and shipping the proceeds overseas. But they also have companies earning income overseas and shipping it home to be taxed by them. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
And you can't double-tax at both ends, let alone any stops on the way. Imagine if a product designed in Norway by an American company, manufactured in China, shipped through Singapore to a warehouse in Australia then retailed in New Zealand was taxed by all of those regimes, as well as the Irish government where the proceeds eventually ended up. You'd be paying ten times more for everything, and the global economy would collapse.
Governments worldwide need to get a grip on what they're supposed to exist for, and stop acting like parasites. Nobody has any real objection to paying a fair share for necessary services. But most of the BS that emanates from all governments is not even remotely either necessary or a service. Cut the bloat and taxes can fall to levels where nobody would object to paying them.
Remember how the GST was supposed to replace almost all taxes with a flat rate paid at point of sale? Sounded great at the time, and it certainly does grab the dollars at the point of origin. But all it really did was add another level of impost on everything, and more costs in accounting and compliance... and spawn a whole new avoidance industry.
What we need is a global government lottery... every politician and bureaucrat gets a ticket... and all the odd numbers win... a bullet. That would fix the bastids! And if it didn't, do it again next week until it has the desired effect. :diablo:
Shonky:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dutch-sandwich.asp
This is just transferring money back and forth just to avoid paying taxes that should have been paid.
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='45101' dateline='1395970707'Shonky:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dutch-sandwich.asp
This is just transferring money back and forth just to avoid paying taxes that should have been paid.
It is the duty of corporations to maximise the returns of investors (mums and dads, your super money). They have a duty to minimise tax, the same way your tax accountant has a duty to minimise your tax through income splitting and income deferral. So does that make us "shonky" because we don't think excessive taxes "should" be paid and use all methods available to minimise tax?
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='45103' dateline='1395971958'So does that make us "shonky" because we don't think excessive taxes "should" be paid and use all methods available to minimise tax?
There are two basic, opposing world views at work...
Do governments exist to serve the people
or
Do people exist to serve the government?
I would argue that the overwhelming majority of those involved in governing us, no matter what political stripe or where they are on the bureaucratic ladder, think the latter.
I'm one of those who take the opposing view. And I bet you are too when you think about it.
In a democracy the wishes and aspirations of (all) the people are paramount. Think about our government -is it really democratic?
But, what has this to do with greedy ebay?
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='45108' dateline='1395977553'But, what has this to do with greedy ebay?
A would think a fair bit.
Not only do they gouge as much as they can out of Australians, they don't pay taxes either.
http://m.smh.com.au/business/how-savvy-multinationals-curb-their-tax-bills-20121116-29hhm.html
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='45103' dateline='1395971958'Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='45101' dateline='1395970707'Shonky:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dutch-sandwich.asp
This is just transferring money back and forth just to avoid paying taxes that should have been paid.
It is the duty of corporations to maximise the returns of investors (mums and dads, your super money). They have a duty to minimise tax, the same way your tax accountant has a duty to minimise your tax through income splitting and income deferral. So does that make us "shonky" because we don't think excessive taxes "should" be paid and use all methods available to minimise tax?
Define 'excessive'.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='45108' dateline='1395977553'In a democracy the wishes and aspirations of (all) the people are paramount. Think about our government -is it really democratic?
But, what has this to do with greedy ebay?
I despise democracy (I'm a libertarian).
Democracy is when you have 3 voters (2 wolves and a sheep) voting on who is for lunch.
We tax slaves get to vote every 3 years on who will be our next master.
Unlike dealing with the government at least with fleabay we can choose not to deal with them.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='45118' dateline='1395980887'Unlike dealing with the government at least with fleabay we can choose not to deal with them.
Oh, can we now?????
I'm the closest you'll get to that, and I gotta say, if I needed to turn a bunch of stuff into folding, say because something went unexpectedly sour, there aren't a whole bunch of options. Mainly because the bastards were allowed to buy up all the alternatives.
FeePay and other behemoths, like Apple and Google, have a lot of the same qualities as governments. They don't quite make the laws, yet, but they still manage to act as if they did.
Apple determine what I can and can't have on my devices. Google determine what I can and can't see. And they blatantly robbed an organisation I'm involved with a couple of years ago.. something apparently they do on a regular basis.
We already know that big business effectively appoints governments. How long do you think it will be before they stop being covert about it?
Thanks for your post Bigfellani.
My thoughts exactly. I sell regularly on ebay and for lower priced items around the $10-20 mark the fees are almost doubling with this change!
They screwed the buyers a while back when they gave sellers free listings each month - that resulted in nobody listing auctions and everything becoming buy it now.
Of course the above change was offset by an increase in the fvf.
Now they are continuing and increasingly screwing the sellers with yet another increase in fvf!
Are there viable alternatives to ebay here in Australia!?
QuoteAre there viable alternatives to ebay here in Australia!?
The only one I can think of that eBay don't own is Quicksales. I've bought on there a few times and had no problems.
They don't have anywhere near the numbers of items for sale as eBay, and so far they don't yet have a separate section for Coins & Banknotes, need to go into Antiques, Art & Collectables.
http://www.quicksales.com.au/?mkwid=siAe1DkGY&pcrid=28947881911&pmt=b&pkw=%2Bquicksales&plc=&pdv=c&gclid=CNa5ntvBtr0CFcsbpQodNXkAsg
Quicksales: Coins & Notes (10447)
There are quite a few sellers I recognise, but I don't know much about the set-up. How do they make money if the listings are free? I paid no fee as a buyer and if it is truly 100% FREE to sell, maybe we should all just go there and give eBay the old heave ho.
I used to use quicksales but the search system is so damned difficult that I can't even find the coins that I have for sale on there!
:dash1:
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='45194' dateline='1396054674'I used to use quicksales but the search system is so damned difficult that I can't even find the coins that I have for sale on there!
Replying in http://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=744
I really don't see what all the "Hoo Haa" is all about.
If an item costs you $3 to post then you are up for an extra 3 cents and I imagine that low value items get sent at 60 cents so are we all raving on about .6 of a cent ?
If it is affecting the people that noodle coins then flip them on ebay at a dollar or 2 at a time for 5,10,20 and 50 cent coins then they have already at least doubled their profit anyway.
*snip* (markn)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='45200' dateline='1396055830'I really don't see what all the "Hoo Haa" is all about.
Ultimately, power and its misuse to the detriment of all. Something we are supposed to take seriously, or so many would tell you
(especially the ACCC), yet we repeatedly stick our heads in the noose.
eBay are no different from the banksters, or the robber barons of days gone by. They are squeezing all alternatives out, and jacking up their take to the absolute hilt.
Sorry, but it wouldn't matter if it was a tenth of a cent. Its not the amount that matters, its the principle. I hear far too many people saying
"oh, but its only...", just because
they can afford it. Then the next thing you know is everyone who
can't afford it is paying twenty bucks for a cup of coffee or twice as much as their income for a roof over their heads or whatever.
And don't get me started on carbon taxes. If people weren't so stupid in the first place, such idiotic half-arsed screwups wouldn't ever see the light of day. But because people ARE idiots
(cumulative IQ decreases as the size of a group increases, arguably to zero for the entire globe) and will literally destroy their own life-support systems, even stupider politicians come up with "solutions" like that.
Bah, Humbug....
"Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here"
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='45208' dateline='1396059907'"Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here"
Looks like an appropriate spot for this interlude again McDuck ....... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk)
QuoteIf an item costs you $3 to post then you are up for an extra 3 cents
With respect Jim, eBay charges 28ยข for $3.00. Some of our postings to interstate are $30+ postage and some overseas are $50.
The amount involved is small but not insignificant.
removed
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='45213' dateline='1396062870'I do not think this rambling has a place in a coin forum.
Sure it does... and its not even as off-topic as many other threads have been... :angel:
I am the last one to enter into being a topic policegal
but i'm inclined to agree with Emu
this thread is getting way way off with the fairies
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='45221' dateline='1396065167'I am the last one to enter into being a topic policegal
but i'm inclined to agree with Emu
this thread is getting way way off with the fairies
Wow. What an event. Purple Pussy has agreed with me.
I wonder if trout has reduced his beer supply this afternoon.
I had planned on joining him in an attempt to reduce the beer supply in Perth but he couldn't make it for ANDA.
I've removed the off-topic bit. Other than that trout has a different opinion to the majority of other people. I'm not going to go deleting people's posts because their opinions are different.
Answering this in "The Missbehavers" So I don't start rambelling off with the fairies :laugh2:
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='45192' dateline='1396054533'The only one I can think of that eBay don't own is Quicksales. I've bought on there a few times and had no problems.
I started using Quicksales a couple of months ago and am happy with it. I only use fixed price and do put a price towards the top end of my expectations.
A good point is that "Make an Offer" button. If someone wants the item but thinks the price too high then they can offer a lesser amount. I got offers on 4 items this morning that I'm considering.
QuoteThey screwed the buyers a while back when they gave sellers free listings each month - that resulted in nobody listing auctions and everything becoming buy it now.
How is that "Screwing the Buyers" exactly?
It just gave sellers the ability to try and get what they expect for their coins instead of letting them go at ridiculously low prices because there was only one bidder.
Bloody good initiative by eBay I think , about time the sellers got a bit of a win for a change.
What it all means is that domestic post for me just went up $1.50 in a parcel to cover latest postage rise and ebay fees. My first postage increase in 2 years. Post just went up internationally $2.50 per parcel to cover ebay fees alone. Sounds like eBay did their job... Earned more money for themselves and made it cheaper (tongue in cheek) for buyers. If this means I don't sell anything....then I am sure an auction will make some money out of me..... Prefer an Aussie auction house making money out of me than the foreign corporation that owns a greedy greedy company anyway.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='45313' dateline='1396169079'QuoteThey screwed the buyers a while back when they gave sellers free listings each month - that resulted in nobody listing auctions and everything becoming buy it now.
How is that "Screwing the Buyers" exactly?
It just gave sellers the ability to try and get what they expect for their coins instead of letting them go at ridiculously low prices because there was only one bidder.
Bloody good initiative by eBay I think , about time the sellers got a bit of a win for a change.
As a buyer I now have to waste more time going through listings of dregs that are on their 3rd, 4th and 5th repeat on fleabay.
As for sellers letting things go at ridiculously low prices... way too many times I've had a win at a great price and the seller cancels the sale. Only the honest and unobservant sellers complete those bargains.
Just increase the postage cost by 10%
If postage is $5, make it $5.50
That will solve the problem of cost, but not the Ebay gouge.
Most of the auction houses charge 16% or so to the seller then charge the buyer a percentage as well for the same coin.
Numisbid charges 10% or $8 per coin (whichever is higher) and that is the TOTAL cost.
eBay charges a bit under 10% (including postage) then double dips with paypal.
NOBODY will auction your coins for nothing.
Selling with a 99 cent start has become bloody ridicules for me lately , even today I sold a 1977 10 cent coin graded by PCGS PR68DCAM for $5.50 :dash1:
The main trouble with the 99 cent starts is whatever the coin sells for you must go through with the sale regardless or your reputation will turn to Mud in a heartbeat.
From now on I will only sell via "Buy it Now" with an option to dicker the price.
I am SO "Done" with penny ante bidders, The stuff I sell is quality and I expect to get a reasonable price when I sell.
With the buy it now and the "Make an offer" option I at least have some control over what my coins sell for.
Lets face it we put coins up at auction to sell them NOT give the bloody things away.
This is why I have NO problem with the eBay fees because at the end of the day they are quite competitive BUT only if you can get the price you are happy with.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='45327' dateline='1396179713'even today I sold a 1977 10 cent coin graded by PCGS PR68DCAM for $5.50
Double ouch!
Quote from: 'trout' pid='45327' dateline='1396179713'NOBODY will auction your coins for nothing.
ACF does. :P
I really don't understand why everyone doesn't offer stuff here first.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='44955' dateline='1395885263'I got an email from ebay today basically upping ebay fees. They are now going to charge FVF on postage. There suggestion of overcoming this it to not charge postage cost. I basically don't make a profit on postage. I essentially charge Aussie Post rates...now I have to pay a fee on something I make nothing on. It is obvious ebay is against sellers making a livelihood.
I get a very small discount from my suppliers the Royal Australian Mint about 20%, Perth Mint about the same & Downies about 18%. I pay approx. 10% in paypal/ebay fees, essentially halving my profit margin. Now ebay says to me here is another 80c fee on a standard rate parcel or to avoid that here is a profit margin of zero on a $100 item by offering free postage.
Yes I can offer fee post on my Second Hand Goods. My experience however this does not increase FV prices to enough to cover postage costs, particularly so on small value items...say under $50.00, so I generally charge postage....which now is going to attract a fee. Ebay obviously does not care that a small business owner has to cover costs and that they are charging a fee that sellers will just have to absorb.
The online market can not be ignored. The cost of trading online is increasing because of greedy companies like ebay whilst the profit margins of retailers is decreasing. The evidence of this is the fact that the number of professional coin dealers in Australia has decreased severely over the last 10 years. This means that the buyers ability to walk into a shop is ever decreasing. This is very bad for the hobby as it means less new collectors enter the market. The flow on affect is a hobbiests collection is decreasing in value.
If you are a business that deals on ebay your pocket is getting lighter because of ebays greed. If you are a hobbiest you probably don't give a damn now but I can assure you will care later on when you don't get the returns you expect.
Ebays greed need to stop.
A very good topic and well said bigfella :wavemulticolor: