A blog reader asked us to identify this coin earlier this year. It appears he sold it to a Sydney dealer. Pity. Would have looked great in my dollar/error collection.
It fails to clearly mention in the listing but it was struck on the gallery press by a very lucky individual. It didn't get spat out of the press and went around at least 3 times.
eBay for sale (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Multiple-Strike-Error-2014-1-C-Mintmark-Unc-Coin-A-Voyage-to-Terra-Australis-/261390353393?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item3cdc1443f1&_uhb=1)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/australia-2014-dollar-terra-australis-error.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/australia-2014-dollar-terra-australis-error-obv.jpg)
So is this coin worth nearly 6 grand? Or is the eBay seller dreaming?
*shrug* I'd value it at a third to half of $6k. People with deep pockets and no sense might pay $6k for it.
?? deliberate strike?????
mint monkey business???
No, press mishap. Gallery Press, visitor puts the money in, coin struck, coin ejected and down the chute for you to put in the card.
Instead of popping out, coin goes round, strike, and around, strike, and then finally pops out, struck more than 3 times.
hummm
why would that person sell it to a dealer if it was so innocent?
Best MYO error ever from Gallery Press ... if it was me I woulda kept feeding that press
I would have ben kicking and shaking the thing too!!!
The coin above is different to the Ebay listing the Ebay coin has 4 clear 1 impressions the one above only has 3
Good eyes, you know it's completely different. I wish I was at the Mint that day.
Does that mean that there are at least two of these errors about?
Yes, absolutely.
I would not be surprised at all if there were quite a few of these made on that day :ok:
I wonder if someone went to the RAM shop and said theirs was faulty and swapped it for a "good" one, then they shut that press down for it to be looked at.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='43999' dateline='1395009686'I wonder if someone went to the RAM shop and said theirs was faulty and swapped it for a "good" one, then they shut that press down for it to be looked at.
I would bet on that as an absolute certainty, given the silly things I've seen people do involving MYO's. :(
So this machine is unmonitored?
What is to stop someone purposely tampering with the machine to make it get out of whack and make these errors?
People do it with poker machines, and I'm sure a few posters here tilted a few pinball machines back in their misspent youth.
Anybody got a spare rare earth magnet? (a really powerful one that can fit in my pocket). I just want to see what can make that press go nuts for scientific purposes.:angel::dodgy::mafia:
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='44012' dateline='1395029224'What is to stop someone purposely tampering with the machine to make it get out of whack and make these errors?
The fact that they're behind a big glass wall for starters. And the fact that they're right out in the open where everybody can see. I'm sure there are pics around here someplace, for those who've not been there.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='44014' dateline='1395030359'Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='44012' dateline='1395029224'What is to stop someone purposely tampering with the machine to make it get out of whack and make these errors?
The fact that they're behind a big glass wall for starters. And the fact that they're right out in the open where everybody can see. I'm sure there are pics around here someplace, for those who've not been there.
I wouldn't intend to pick the press up with the magnet so I only need to be near it, you only have to upset the electronics and delicate parts for most precision machines to affect their smooth running.
The press being right out in the open makes it easier to test the magnet on it and those magnets are both powerful and can remain in your pocket out of sight (don't put your credit card near one or it will be erased).
Last time I was at the mint was 1972 so I have not seen the press.
BTW I don't intend to do this, but as I'm in security I like to run mental exercises in possible scenarios (and who has never dreamed about robbing the mint or enjoyed movies with great scams and robberies?)
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='44028' dateline='1395033310'I only need to be near it, you only have to upset the electronics and delicate parts for most precision machines to affect their smooth running.
Delicate electronics????? Mate, these things are right out of the Jurassic! Best of luck tampering. :dodgy:
(http://mendosus.com/jpg/cmt-01.jpg)
That press went out months ago.
All new presses now........
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='44034' dateline='1395037102'That press went out months ago.
All new presses now........
After this fiasco they may put the old school presses back into action :laugh2:
I thought that those old gallery presses were the now 'mobile presses'
these are the new ones
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/PC310260_zps58425833.jpg)(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/PC310263_zps1ade7a17.jpg)
Jan 1 2014 one press was out of service after lunchtime ... suspect the errors were pressed on 1 Jan...a proximity switch sensor failed to detect the struck coin then back again on carousel a few times
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='44067' dateline='1395048214'I thought that those old gallery presses were the now 'mobile presses'
these are the new ones
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/PC310260_zps58425833.jpg)(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/PC310263_zps1ade7a17.jpg)
Hi robbiegal, Seeing these pics reminded me of a question I've wanted to ask someone in the know. Are the presses thought of as being numbered i.e. 1 and 2 etc. And if so what number would the press closest to the stairs be. Cheers.
dunno
Goldseeker might know though
Quote from: 'runway' pid='44087' dateline='1395056861'Jan 1 2014 one press was out of service after lunchtime ... suspect the errors were pressed on 1 Jan...a proximity switch sensor failed to detect the struck coin then back again on carousel a few times
are you kidding???
i'm goanna check my coins - RIGHT NOW
I believe Press Number 1 is closest to the stairs. Press Number 2 is the one closest to the vault one can see behind the clear wall of the shop.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='44118' dateline='1395133723'I believe Press Number 1 is closest to the stairs. Press Number 2 is the one closest to the vault one can see behind the clear wall of the shop.
Thanks for that goldie, I should have known you'd be on the money
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='44131' dateline='1395145799'Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='44118' dateline='1395133723'I believe Press Number 1 is closest to the stairs. Press Number 2 is the one closest to the vault one can see behind the clear wall of the shop.
Thanks for that goldie, I should have known you'd be on the money
Press 1 is first one you see in mintshop then Press 2 is in the corner
Quote from: 'runway' pid='44134' dateline='1395148884'Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='44131' dateline='1395145799'Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='44118' dateline='1395133723'I believe Press Number 1 is closest to the stairs. Press Number 2 is the one closest to the vault one can see behind the clear wall of the shop.
Thanks for that goldie, I should have known you'd be on the money
Press 1 is first one you see in mintshop then Press 2 is in the corner
Thanks runway, around the corner and in the corner, gotcha :yahoo:
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='44088' dateline='1395057088'Are the presses thought of as being numbered
Could I ask why it matters? I seem to recall quite a discussion some time ago about which press coins were struck on... :dodgy:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='44206' dateline='1395224230'Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='44088' dateline='1395057088'Are the presses thought of as being numbered
Could I ask why it matters? I seem to recall quite a discussion some time ago about which press coins were struck on... :dodgy:
I remember that discussion as well. All to do with the positioning of the edge milling in relation to the letters of AUSTRALIA in the legend. It was thought that this could be a way of distinguishing which coins were from the Visitors or Internal presses. Oops not addressing the question am I:dodgy: With all this in mind some may think it good to be able to distinguish one visitors press from the other :yahoo: A very interesting CAB article a few years ago dealt with the same thinking in reference to the early MYO's off the visitors press from 1991, 92, 93, 94, 95. I think there was just one press in those days.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='44206' dateline='1395224230'Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='44088' dateline='1395057088'Are the presses thought of as being numbered
Could I ask why it matters? I seem to recall quite a discussion some time ago about which press coins were struck on... :dodgy:
VARIETIES ...that's why
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='44264' dateline='1395289526'Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='44206' dateline='1395224230'Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='44088' dateline='1395057088'Are the presses thought of as being numbered
Could I ask why it matters? I seem to recall quite a discussion some time ago about which press coins were struck on... :dodgy:
I remember that discussion as well. All to do with the positioning of the edge milling in relation to the letters of AUSTRALIA in the legend. It was thought that this could be a way of distinguishing which coins were from the Visitors or Internal presses. Oops not addressing the question am I:dodgy: With all this in mind some may think it good to be able to distinguish one visitors press from the other :yahoo: A very interesting CAB article a few years ago dealt with the same thinking in reference to the early MYO's off the visitors press from 1991, 92, 93, 94, 95. I think there was just one press in those days.
That's correct mate .... CAB has covered this,edge reeding is fascinating :blush:
I have been informed that edge reeding does not matter in determining which press the coins were minted on.
I spent may hours, listing all the reed positions on $1 coins from 1988 to about two years ago. I must as well done something else instead.
I still have my charts somewhere on my hard drives but because of information received, I have not plotted the reeding alignment for about two years.
agree
I have been told that the reeding is neither here nor there
and when I've asked which press is 1 or 2, I have never been given a straight answer either
might try again next time i'm down there
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='44622' dateline='1395574732'might try again next time i'm down there
My guess is they can't give you a straight answer because they really don't care. Which machine a tool is strapped into is irrelevant... only the tool and the end product matter.
The old RAM Gallery presses in the front building were numbered press 1 and press 2, there were signs up for these. The furthest from the front of the RAM corridor was press No 1 and the closest was Press no 2. I smashed press No 1 when doing one of the coins on January 1 and I can't recall what coin it was. I shall have a gander at the newspaper photo and advise a little latter.
Now, in the new building, Press no 1 is closest to the gallery stairs/steps. Press No 2 near the back wall.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='44642' dateline='1395615094'The old RAM Gallery presses in the front building were numbered press 1 and press 2, there were signs up for these. The furthest from the front of the RAM corridor was press No 1 and the closest was Press no 2. I smashed press No 1 when doing one of the coins on January 1 and I can't recall what coin it was. I shall have a gander at the newspaper photo and advise a little latter.
Now, in the new building, Press no 1 is closest to the gallery stairs/steps. Press No 2 near the back wall.
I remember them well
The early year press coins and reeding are fascinating like the 1981 20c claw
Quote from: 'runway' pid='46658' dateline='1397650632'Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='44642' dateline='1395615094'The old RAM Gallery presses in the front building were numbered press 1 and press 2, there were signs up for these. The furthest from the front of the RAM corridor was press No 1 and the closest was Press no 2. I smashed press No 1 when doing one of the coins on January 1 and I can't recall what coin it was. I shall have a gander at the newspaper photo and advise a little latter.
Now, in the new building, Press no 1 is closest to the gallery stairs/steps. Press No 2 near the back wall.
I remember them well
The early year press coins and reeding are fascinating like the 1981 20c claw
I know the idea of using the edge milling as a reference has been poo poo'd before but the original concept to use it as a tool in confirming if a coin was from the internal production presses or the visitors gallery press, IMHO was a good one. One problem as I see it, is that some people assumed the coins purchased over the counter were from the visitors press, which they definitely were not. In the early years 1991 to 95 for example, the numbers produced off the visitors press was minimal and it is highly unlikely that there would have been a die change in each of those years, so the positioning of the edge reeding for those years maybe, just maybe an accurate method of identification. Even in later years for example, I remember visiting the Mint in January and October of 2009 or thereabouts and noting the position of the milling remained the same. However, I do concede also in later years there has been the odd occasion where dies have been changed or removed and replaced due to malfunction, in which case the collars probably wouldn't be returned to the same position (assuming the collar is what creates the milled edge). But lets not totally disregard the potential for this method to be a valid tool, particularly for those early years when public interest and access was not huge, meaning the numbers minted would have been far less. Not a problem these days though, with the C mm of the gallery press being confined to coins not minted on the internal production presses. Considering the long term interest in coins from the visitors gallery presses, I find it incredible that it's taken this long for the Mint to actually take steps, whether it be by accident or design, to arrive at a point where identifying a coin from the visitors press is no longer conjectural.
Visited the RAM on 23/12/16 while down that way visiting our Daughter for Xmas. Couldn't resist just one dollar from each of the MYO visitor gallery presses, and it was interesting to compare each with examples acquired from each press earlier in the year on 23/03/16.
The edge milling position in relation to AUSTRALIA in the obverse legend on the press closest to the stairs entrance (#1 for me) had altered from what it was back in March, so obviously there was maintenance carried out on at least one occasion through the year that resulted in some die repositioning.
Interestingly, the milling position on press #2 (around the corner) had not altered since March.
I keep forgetting to take note of the counter on each press:dash1:
If and when I get these MYO from the Gallery Presses, I request that the coins are identified as Press 1 or 2 in the packaging.
I have been doing this for years and will keep on doing it.
I love comparing the four coin MINT Set coin reeding especially the "C" Mint Mark coin as against the MYO Coins and generally the reedings between the coins are not the same alignment to the word Australia.
Never mind, according to others, the position of the reeding to the word Australia proves or means anything. But that is not my understanding or belief.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='103315' dateline='1483322284'Never mind, according to others, the position of the reeding to the word Australia proves or means anything. But that is not my understanding or belief.
Yeah, each to their own. Some might say there's no point in noting the edge milling (reeding) these days because it's certain that all C mm dollars that aren't in the four coin sets must originate from the gallery presses. This may be so, but we still need to differentiate between press 1 and 2, as well as identify any gallery press coin from a rouge coin that has escaped from the four coin set. We all know many collectors these days do remove these from the packaging :angel:
The main interest for me is being able to get a feel for the number of times any Gallery press may have the dies repositioned over a certain period of time. This appears to be a fairly low occurrence, so if we can transpose this low percentage from today's relatively high gallery press mintage to the low numbers from the early 90's, 91 to 95 in particular, in my opinion this gives further credence to the known edge milling positions for these years as being unique.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='103315' dateline='1483322284'the position of the reeding to the word Australia proves or means anything.
Quite so. The reeding comes from the collar, which is the third die, obviously.
Here's one from the US Mint:
(http://www.moonlightmint.com/artifacts_files/image029.jpg)
Unlike hammer and anvil dies, there is no alignment criteria for collars. So every time one is replaced, it will move.
That's why its a pointless excercise to track them. :angel:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AUSTRALIA-2014-1-TRIPLE-STRIKE-NGC-MS-67-ERROR-COIN-VOYAGE-of-TERRA-AUSTRALIS-/112104533067?hash=item1a19f36c4b
fortymillion007coins
Enough said
Quote from: 'runway' pid='103348' dateline='1483359490'http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AUSTRALIA-2014-1-TRIPLE-STRIKE-NGC-MS-67-ERROR-COIN-VOYAGE-of-TERRA-AUSTRALIS-/112104533067?hash=item1a19f36c4b
fortymillion007coins
Enough said
That is one of the coins discussed at the beginning of this thread.
It IS a nice error coin But Not $8,000 nice :angel:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='103319' dateline='1483325592'That's why its a pointless excercise to track them. :angel:
For some maybe, but not everyone, depends on the motive. My main interest is in the gallery press dollars from 1991 to 95 and their reported low mintage. If it can be shown that on average very little maintenance occurs on the current presses considering their higher mintage output, it's not too unreasonable to suggest the presses in 1991 to 95 may have received zero maintenance given their reported much shorter period of operation and consequently very low mintage.
In this instance the various positions of the edge milling on these early coins are known and have been documented. In an effort to keep the naysayers at bay :angel: and within reason, I'm trying to construct a valid argument from a point of minimal to zero die repositioning, confirming that the relevant positions for those years can be relied upon as being unique and a legitimate marker. ;)
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='103371' dateline='1483403325'the relevant positions for those years can be relied upon as being unique and a legitimate marker. ;)
But to what end?
If you hit something with a hammer, who cares WHICH hammer it was? And that's exactly what we're talking about here. The coins are exactly the same regardless of which press they came from.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='103374' dateline='1483405584'The coins are exactly the same regardless of which press they came from.
No they're not, I think you're missing my point here. The unique position of the edge milling segment in relation to AUSTRALIA can be and is a reliable method of distinguishing a visitors gallery press coin from one that came from your normal garden variety production press. IMO this is of the utmost relevance when applied to galley press coins from 1991 to 1995 for reasons expressed earlier.
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='103382' dateline='1483421155'utmost relevance
Clearly we're not going to reach agreement on this one. :)
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='103382' dateline='1483421155'Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='103374' dateline='1483405584'The coins are exactly the same regardless of which press they came from.
No they're not, I think you're missing my point here. The unique position of the edge milling segment in relation to AUSTRALIA can be and is a reliable method of distinguishing a visitors gallery press coin from one that came from your normal garden variety production press. IMO this is of the utmost relevance when applied to galley press coins from 1991 to 1995 for reasons expressed earlier.
What is to say that the collar on the standard press coins can't be the same alignment as the gallery press coins ?
Quote from: 'trout' pid='103396' dateline='1483439077'Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='103382' dateline='1483421155'Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='103374' dateline='1483405584'The coins are exactly the same regardless of which press they came from.
No they're not, I think you're missing my point here. The unique position of the edge milling segment in relation to AUSTRALIA can be and is a reliable method of distinguishing a visitors gallery press coin from one that came from your normal garden variety production press. IMO this is of the utmost relevance when applied to galley press coins from 1991 to 1995 for reasons expressed earlier.
What is to say that the collar on the standard press coins can't be the same alignment as the gallery press coins ?
There is an easy way to determine that. If many coins are found in circulation with the same alignment then it is safe to say that at least a portion of standard press coins were of the same alignment as gallery press coins. But if a search of large numbers of circulation coins fails to find the same alignment then autocouplers research and conclusions are valid.
QuoteThere is an easy way to determine that. If many coins are found in circulation with the same alignment then it is safe to say that at least a portion of standard press coins were of the same alignment as gallery press coins. But if a search of large numbers of circulation coins fails to find the same alignment then autocouplers research and conclusions are valid.
:agreed:
But how many collectors actually look at where the segmented reeding is aligned on our Dollar coins ?
The 3rd side of a coin is a pretty neglected area.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='103389' dateline='1483431831'Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='103382' dateline='1483421155'utmost relevance
Clearly we're not going to reach agreement on this one. :)
Yeah, the term utmost, probably a bit strong when talking about something with the odd shade of grey as this subject. But at least you know I'm a believer ;)
Seriously, the discussion trout and nealefendi were having about the possibility of a production press alignment being the same is a valid point, but the odds of that happening are less than not IMHO.
Back in 2007 when that CAB article; The Canberra Connection, was published, I set myself a task of locating an example of each coin as per the edge reeding recorded in the article for the subject years 1991 to 95. After at least three or four years searching I did manage to find examples of most with the relevant edge reeding positioning, one of which was confirmed by the previous owner as being from the gallery presses, the rest had no provenance to speak of other than being extremely hard to locate.
One in particular which proved elusive was the 1995 Waltzing Matilda C mm, ironically a second example was found fairly soon after the first and it was this coin which spent it's life rattling around in a draw that was confirmed by it's previous owner as being from the gallery press. I actually forwarded this coin on too a forum member not long after.
Funnily enough, not too long ago Pedro pulled a 1995 Waltzing Matilda C mm from circulation which he posted somewhere on the forum, and it displayed the same edge reeding position as recorded in the article.
As nealefendi alluded to previously, if these coins have identical counterparts from the production presses circulating out there in collections, at auctions, under dealers countertops or on the internet, they shouldn't be that difficult to find. It's my experience they are extremely scarce items.
Look, I get it. Really I do. But... I don't care. And neither do almost all collectors. Life's too short and there are more productive pursuits.
You talk about rarity. Then why aren't flaws worth millions? They are, after all, unique. There is only a single example of each in existence, so they should be worth far more than common coins like 1930 pennies, right? :diablo:
Got a folder full of impurities and flaws, just waiting to go. Bring it on :)
I think anyone who is into varieties in a big way (whether they be the Renniks Varieties of pre-decimal or just decimal varieties) would have both the variations on their checked off / shopping list.
When Pedro put up his post, I for one double checked the one's that I'd sold. Fortunately they were the garden variety, not the true gallery press ones.
A variety is a variety after all.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='103431' dateline='1483495040'Look, I get it. Really I do. But... I don't care.
Just trying to point you in the right direction, sadly I think you are lost to the world of non believers :angel: Whatever floats our boats, and I'm having fun :yahoo:
As you mentioned 1930 pennies, there are plenty of collecting themes where items are much scarcer than those old coppers, but popular media driven familiarity has always held sway. Many of the ever increasing popular penny varieties are good examples where acknowledgement and inclusion in the catalogues had been resisted, but in spite of this have slowly become more known to the point where their values have risen considerably in the face of don't care attitudes by the editors and publishers. Oops.....getting off topic
Good on ya Auto, stick to your Guns Mate.
We All have very different collecting goals/ideas and that is the way it should be otherwise we would be as booring as bats poop :)
I have been there done that with the Don Quixote thing Mate So stay with your quest because those Bloody Windmills will eventually fall If you persevere long enough :wavemulticolor:
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='103398' dateline='1483439887'Quote from: 'trout' pid='103396' dateline='1483439077'Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='103382' dateline='1483421155'Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='103374' dateline='1483405584'The coins are exactly the same regardless of which press they came from.
No they're not, I think you're missing my point here. The unique position of the edge milling segment in relation to AUSTRALIA can be and is a reliable method of distinguishing a visitors gallery press coin from one that came from your normal garden variety production press. IMO this is of the utmost relevance when applied to galley press coins from 1991 to 1995 for reasons expressed earlier.
What is to say that the collar on the standard press coins can't be the same alignment as the gallery press coins ?
There is an easy way to determine that. If many coins are found in circulation with the same alignment then it is safe to say that at least a portion of standard press coins were of the same alignment as gallery press coins. But if a search of large numbers of circulation coins fails to find the same alignment then autocouplers research and conclusions are valid.
There is a difference between the visitor gallery coins and main press coins :wavemulticolor:
When I was at the Ekka last year, they told me specifically that they wouldn't let me do a double strike, because (apparently) people try to create error coins and make a fortune out of them. They even checked it before they gave it to me, just to make sure that it hadn't been double-struck. Although I didn't mind at the time, I'm beginning to wish that I could do multiple strikes, because I could really use an extra $6000. :)
I think in the portable press it is impossible to do a double/triple etc strike.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='103761' dateline='1484042265'I think in the portable press it is impossible to do a double/triple etc strike.
:agreed:
As these only apply a mintmark it would be pretty "Tough" :)