A post over at CCF recently of a "double struck" 1943M threepence looked for all the world to me like it had a "hub doubled" or "double die" obverse. I've since confirmed this with emu666 who agreed with my attribution. He's since located 2 other specimens and I've managed to find one from a blurry eBay sellers image.
emu666 had not heard of this variety before. My research through back issues of ACR's/CAB have failed to find mention of it and I've not found anything about it online. There's no mention of it in Ian McConnelly's books either. Anyone heard of this before or found reference to it in sources I'm unaware of? If not, this could be an interesting new discovery.
Here's some pics. Note the split serifs, especially on the IM of IMP. This is a key indicator of hub-doubling. Machine doubling (or MDD) does not show this splitting of design elements and has a much more "shelf-like" appearance.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/australia-1943-3d-double-die-obverse-2.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/australia-1943-3d-double-die-obverse-1.jpg)
Here's a close up of the designers initials "HP" below the truncation of the King's neck. Doubling is quite clear.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/australia-1943-3d-double-die-obverse-3.jpg)
I have the '43 halfpenny with obverse doubling as well
so possibly the hubs at the Melbourne mint were wobbly that year
are decimal and pre-decimal coins worth any more with doubling????
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='41989' dateline='1392619106'are decimal and pre-decimal coins worth any more with doubling????
Machine doubling, generally no. Hub doubling, sometimes yes.
AJ,
hub doubling attracts certain types of error collectors who have a particular interest in that error and as well, in the way it is formed
Definitely hub doubled.
Nice coin - haven't seen one of these before.
No mention in Fosters Catalogue of Australian Coin Varieties 1964.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='41989' dateline='1392619106'are decimal and pre-decimal coins worth any more with doubling????
AJ, the MDD we see on decimals is a wear thing. The dies are slightly loose and wobble as they strike, producing a second strike slightly offset. Pretty common as we've seen with the zillion types on CoF 50ยข to name one.
Hob doubling is a completely different animal. The image is doubled on the hob, most likely from being double struck slightly offset. Its a Variety, not an Error, in that the dies produced from that hob are different from those produced from all other hobs, and of course all coins struck from them will be identical.
Think Incused Flags, or Large/Small varieties.
I think there's scope for an article to send to CAB on this one, all it needs is someone to write and submit it.
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='42138' dateline='1392723405'I think there's scope for an article to send to CAB on this one, all it needs is someone to write and submit it.
I nominate the guy who's got it, who I hear is not too shabby a wordsmith anyway. :angel:
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='42138' dateline='1392723405'I think there's scope for an article to send to CAB on this one, all it needs is someone to write and submit it.
I'd be happy to do that, wouldn't be a very long article though. And technically while I did identify what the variety was I didn't actually find the coin that was originally posted up on CCF. I don't want to steal anyone's thunder. Opinion?
Quote from: 'markn' pid='42185' dateline='1392781320'I don't want to steal anyone's thunder. Opinion?
Co-author it with the owner.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='42187' dateline='1392781846'Quote from: 'markn' pid='42185' dateline='1392781320'I don't want to steal anyone's thunder. Opinion?
Co-author it with the owner.
Contact the OP on CCF, explain the situation, I'm sure he/she would be happy to be acknowledged as the discoverer of the error/variety. Probably would not divulge their real name, and that's to be expected.
I don't see anything wrong with you writing the article so long as the original "finder" is consulted and, if they so desire, recognized.
Not sure how long an article that would be and another option may be to write a longer article on the pre-decimal varieties identified on the forum recently eg Robsters varieties that aren't in Renniks catalogue or the 1927 "bridgeless nose" sixpence. I think Ian McConnell does a monthly article on varieties so he may be interested and start with something similar to "A number or new varieties from the folk on "Australian Coin Forum" recently...." and hence give the forum some promotion as per the other thread.
I'm sure there is enough to create some interest.
I found my second one of these on the weekend, and it's a nice grade to boot!
(http://www.mycoinalog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/australia-1943-3d-ddo-obverse.jpg)
(http://www.mycoinalog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/australia-1943-3d-double-die-obverse-4.jpg)
Well done Mate :yahoo:
It looks like the Adelaide show has been "Fruitful" :good:
Super coin.
PCGS acknowledge such DDOs & DDRs as major varieties.
And include them in the registry sets.
A lovely coin Mark! :good:
Thanks Uni.
I'll leave the PCGS registry set thing up to other people Echidna, I don't actively collect 3d's other than this type.
Nice example, well done. :)
cool
aren't coin shows fun!!!
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='102321' dateline='1480898698'Super coin.
PCGS acknowledge such DDOs & DDRs as major varieties.
And include them in the registry sets.
Do they do it automatically or do you have to request it? I've a 1944S DDO in a PCGS slab (MS65) and no mention on the slab of DDO.
You have to tick the Variety Attrib box on the submission sheet and fork out the extra $24 and "Maybe" they will attribute the coin and note it on the slab :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='102335' dateline='1480909214'You have to tick the Variety Attrib box on the submission sheet and fork out the extra $24 and "Maybe" they will attribute the coin and note it on the slab :ok:
Fair enough, I purchased the threepence already slabbed. I didn't even notice that it was DDO until after I got it. Guess the dealer who slabbed it didn't notice it either.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='102331' dateline='1480908279'Quote from: 'echidna' pid='102321' dateline='1480898698'Super coin.
PCGS acknowledge such DDOs & DDRs as major varieties.
And include them in the registry sets.
Do they do it automatically or do you have to request it? I've a 1944S DDO in a PCGS slab (MS65) and no mention on the slab of DDO.
Yep you would have to request a DDO attribution and pay extra for it.