PCGS have just added the 1942 Bombay missing mintmark penny to the penny sets as a required coin. Last year they included the 1919 and 1920 double dot pennies and the 1920 dot above top scroll penny to the set.
Full set composition: http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/SetComposition.aspx?c=2278
Current sets: http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/Composite.aspx?c=2278
Hi Emu, I checked out the sets and it seems that there a a few of the variety already in the top sets.
So did they submit the coins in the past few days/weeks in anticipation of the change,OR has PCGS previously been identifying the variety (but not including it on the set list, OR have these coins been slabbed months/years ago as normal Indians and they have been reclassified retrospectively.
So how long before they do this right step for the other varieties? (English/Indian, dropped 1, '43 long, 53 different 5, 55-56 mules, 55 narrow, 57 wide, 22 wide etc).
Your '24 Indian will take a top spot if that happens (but I won't mention your '31 dropped:angel:)
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='41083' dateline='1391638286'PCGS have just added the 1942 Bombay missing mintmark penny to the penny sets as a required coin. Last year they included the 1919 and 1920 double dot pennies and the 1920 dot above top scroll penny to the set.
Full set composition: http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/SetComposition.aspx?c=2278
Current sets: http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/Composite.aspx?c=2278
Initially I made a hasty remark about the 1955Y. in the list of Timbertop as being a mule, wrong wrong wrong. So now that I've made the appropriate edit and retrieved some of my ego, can I just say how ironic it is that a world leader and often maligned third party grader is now recognising important Australian varieties when our local publications have persistently dropped the ball on this subject.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='41086' dateline='1391660613'Hi Emu, I checked out the sets and it seems that there a a few of the variety already in the top sets.
So did they submit the coins in the past few days/weeks in anticipation of the change,OR has PCGS previously been identifying the variety (but not including it on the set list, OR have these coins been slabbed months/years ago as normal Indians and they have been reclassified retrospectively.
So how long before they do this right step for the other varieties? (English/Indian, dropped 1, '43 long, 53 different 5, 55-56 mules, 55 narrow, 57 wide, 22 wide etc).
Your '24 Indian will take a top spot if that happens (but I won't mention your '31 dropped:angel:)
A lot of the American sets have three alternatives, one with varieties and normal coins, one without varieties, and one with just varieties and no normal coins. Perhaps people like yourself and emu could talk to PCGS about that sort of thing? I imagine they love the idea of new sets because it pushes people to get coins graded in and effort to complete a set.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='41093' dateline='1391674014'Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='41086' dateline='1391660613'Hi Emu, I checked out the sets and it seems that there a a few of the variety already in the top sets.
So did they submit the coins in the past few days/weeks in anticipation of the change,OR has PCGS previously been identifying the variety (but not including it on the set list, OR have these coins been slabbed months/years ago as normal Indians and they have been reclassified retrospectively.
So how long before they do this right step for the other varieties? (English/Indian, dropped 1, '43 long, 53 different 5, 55-56 mules, 55 narrow, 57 wide, 22 wide etc).
Your '24 Indian will take a top spot if that happens (but I won't mention your '31 dropped:angel:)
A lot of the American sets have three alternatives, one with varieties and normal coins, one without varieties, and one with just varieties and no normal coins. Perhaps people like yourself and emu could talk to PCGS about that sort of thing? I imagine they love the idea of new sets because it pushes people to get coins graded in and effort to complete a set.
Hi Mark
I have been raising the issue both here and on CCF (including in the section on TPGs) over the past month or so. Hopefully somebody at PCGS reads the forums to check on the public mood (lots of brick-bats and bouquets about the various TPGs are aired over there on CCF) and they might wake up to the market potential.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='41117' dateline='1391728233'I have been raising the issue both here and on CCF (including in the section on TPGs) over the past month or so. Hopefully somebody at PCGS reads the forums to check on the public mood (lots of brick-bats and bouquets about the various TPGs are aired over there on CCF) and they might wake up to the market potential.
I think it's a good idea. I can see someone trying to complete a variety set in low grades by looking through bulk lots. But completing the full date set by looking through bulk lots? Finding a 1930 penny in scrap? Yeah. Nah.
I am wondering. I have an almost complete set of pre decimal pennies including 1930 penny, sigle dot and double dot pennies all in circulated condition.
Could this collection make the Set registry and if so, how does one go about it?
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='41129' dateline='1391752941'I am wondering. I have an almost complete set of pre decimal pennies including 1930 penny, sigle dot and double dot pennies all in circulated condition.
Could this collection make the Set registry and if so, how does one go about it?
Sell your cruise tickets, get another mortgage then get them graded by PCGS/NGC. :yahoo:
It would cost a small fortune to get a complete set of Penny's graded and slabbed.:angel:
The 1930 penny I would most certainly get graded just to have it authenticated :ok:
Longer way to go to complete my set then, just thought only 1930 to go, now have 1942 I without I.
I have 1943 if needed .. ,, kel ,,
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='41129' dateline='1391752941'I am wondering. I have an almost complete set of pre decimal pennies including 1930 penny, sigle dot and double dot pennies all in circulated condition.
Could this collection make the Set registry and if so, how does one go about it?
catching you up
Quote from: 'keldaw' pid='41143' dateline='1391759595'I have 1943 if needed .. ,, kel ,,
A 1943 Bombay without the I? It was my understanding that these were mythological.
Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='41192' dateline='1391846115'Quote from: 'keldaw' pid='41143' dateline='1391759595'I have 1943 if needed .. ,, kel ,,
A 1943 Bombay without the I? It was my understanding that these were mythological.
I've seen two 43s without the mintmark but they have both been filled dies.
The 1955Y narrow date has been given a PCGS No.:
PCGS #598377 (http://www.pcgs.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=598377)
At this stage there is only one (belongs to 5 cent):
(http://images.pcgs.com/TrueView/33411348_Large.jpg)
From what I can work out, its not required for the big set but presumably can substitute for the narrow date variety:
Australian Pennies Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes (1911-1964) (http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/setcomposition.aspx?c=2278)
lovely coin :heart:
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='89085' dateline='1464041383'lovely coin
Yep, its a beauty (MS64RB), basically as good as it gets. Hard to imagine a better one coming along. Unless auto ...
Stretched dot after Penny too.!
Quote from: 'Robster' pid='89093' dateline='1464046706'Stretched dot after Penny too.!
I wonder are they all similar, here is another:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/1955Y_Penny_PCGS_MS64RB-2.jpg)
varieties collectors call them pellet dots
EDIT: FWIW, I think the proof coins are similar as well.
Pellet dots, stretched dots, dots before my eyes:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/1955_Penny_Narrow_Date_PCGS_MS64RB-1.jpg)
I read somewhere that the mintage for the narrow 55 type was about a million. The Perth obverse type (PCGS #598572) is included in the penny registry set but the narrow 55 type is not.
Yes Rob, I thought they would have given it a gersey seeing they have chosen to differentiate between the #8 and #9 obverses for that year. Another they have missed is the 1956Y. with the #8 Melbourne obverse, and I thought they would also have included the 1957Y. wide date. So when they get around to addressing these three, all that's left will be at least four of the date varieties they are missing from 1922 :biggrin: Can't be too critical though, they have made huge inroads lately. :good:
Let me see if I have this correct. With the 1956Y the scarcity is opposite to that of the 1955Y. The 1955Y with the Type 9 ("Perth") obverse is "rare" but the 1956Y with the Type 8 (Melbourne") obverse is rare/scarce.
I'm guessing the first step to inclusion in the set registry is recognition with a PCGS# which they have done:
http://www.pcgs.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=594149
http://www.pcgs.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=594150
The 1957Y wide date:
http://www.pcgs.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=594153
As for the 1922, I wonder if they have a copy of "1922 Penny Research - Warts And All"? If not they might be in need of it.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='89764' dateline='1464801298'Let me see if I have this correct. With the 1956Y the scarcity is opposite to that of the 1955Y. The 1955Y with the Type 9 ("Perth") obverse is "rare" but the 1956Y with the Type 8 (Melbourne") obverse is rare/scarce.
Yes, from what I've read, the Melbourne obverse 8 die that was supplied to the Perth Mint for the 1955Y. mintage was to be replaced by a Perth Mint made obverse 9 die for the 1956Y. At some point following the manufacture of this replacement die, it was somehow paired with a 1955Y. reverse die and used for a very small run as well as being used for the majority of the 1956Y. mintage. Also, during this time the Melbourne obverse 8 die that was originally used with the 1955Y. was somehow paired with a 1956Y. reverse die for a smallish mintage run.
1925 B23A "Broken N" #545374 no longer included. Number of Required Coins : 94 (previously 95).
Oh so you found it Rob :)
Still listed but in a sub section to the standard 1925 .Just click on the "+" beside the item number
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10137/1925.png)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91727' dateline='1467325294'Oh so you found it Rob :)
From time to tome I check the number of coins required to complete a penny set (the subject of this thread). The other day I noticed it had gone from 95 to 94. The 1925 "Broken N" was removed from the list. Too bad if you went out and bought one in the mean time.
In the long run its probably for the best since its basically a damaged die rather than a different die pair.
"basically a damaged die rather than a different die pair"
Yes, very true. I wonder how many they'll end up with all up with all the different years :scratch_one-s_head: and then there's the half penny :swoon:
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='91741' dateline='1467331470'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91727' dateline='1467325294'Oh so you found it Rob :)
From time to tome I check the number of coins required to complete a penny set (the subject of this thread). The other day I noticed it had gone from 95 to 94. The 1925 "Broken N" was removed from the list. Too bad if you went out and bought one in the mean time.
In the long run its probably for the best since its basically a damaged die rather than a different die pair.
HOLD ON HERE!!isn't it about 75 pennies for a full set?
so these attributed errors or various die pairing are going to mean that the collector has to secure more of the same year to complete a set
now that is BS
we accept the standard 3 X 1920's ,2 X 1919, the H and no H , K.G or not, the dot after Y. as these indicate the mint for the year.
But having jolly, broken N's in the 1925 has an additional coin to collect is bullocks
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='91749' dateline='1467335335'HOLD ON HERE!!
isn't it about 75 pennies for a full set?
Not according to the PCGS set registry approach, its a marketing tool as much as anything else.
Quoteso these attributed errors or various die pairing are going to mean that the collector has to secure more of the same year to complete a set
now that is BS
Not so much errors, mostly die pairs.
Quotewe accept the standard 3 X 1920's ,2 X 1919, the H and no H , K.G or not, the dot after Y. as these indicate the mint for the year.
But having jolly, broken N's in the 1925 has an additional coin to collect is bullocks
Like I said above the 1925 Brokeback N was included for a while but was removed not long ago. It's PCGS #545374 and I assume you can include it in your registry if you have one but its no longer a requirement to complete the set.
my dansco supreme has 75
and that is what i am going to collect
i believe that the 1925 broken N is a die error and that may be why they have removed it, as it is not a die pairing per say
OK
i wondered what those + were on the pop report
might have to hunt down some scarce die pairings!!! (for fun)
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='91759' dateline='1467340167'might have to hunt down some scarce die pairings!!! (for fun)
Knock yourself out, although I reckon you might have most, some will be tough:
1 1911 Plain
2 1912 "H" mint-mark
3 1913 Plain
4 1914 Plain
5 1915 Plain
6 1915 "H" mint-mark
7 1916 "I" mint-mark
8 1917 "I" mint-mark
9 1918 "I" mint-mark
10 1919 Plain
11 1919 -/--/o Dot Below
12 1919 o/--/o Double Dot
13 1920 Plain
14 1920 -/--/o London Obv.
15 1920 -/--/o Calcutta Obv.
16 1920 o/--/- Dot Above Top
17 1920 -/-o/- London Obv.
18 1920 -/-o/- Calcutta Obv.
19 1920 o/--/o Double Dot
20 1921 Melbourne & Perth
21 1921 London obverse
22 1922
23 1922 Calcutta obverse
24 1923
25 1924
26 1924 Calcutta obverse
27 1925 Broken N (die clash) B23A no longer included.
28 1926
29 1927
30 1927 Calcutta obverse
31 1928
32 1929
33 1929 Calcutta obverse
34 1930 Very rare - Calcutta obverse
35 1931 Normal "1" - London obverse
36 1931 Normal "1" - Calcutta obverse
37 1931 Dropped "1" – Calcutta obverse
38 1931 Dropped "1" – London obverse
39 1932 Plain
40 1933 Plain
41 1933 1933/2 over-date
42 1934 Plain
43 1935 Plain
44 1936 Plain
45 1938 Plain
46 1939 Plain
47 1940 Plain
48 1940 K dot G (1 of 2)
49 1941 Plain
50 1941 Y dot
51 1941 K dot G (2 of 2)
52 1942 Y dot
53 1942 "I" & .PENNY. (dots before and after)
54 1942 Sans "I" mintmark (B44A)
55 1943 Plain
56 1943 "I" & .PENNY. (dots before and after)
57 1943 Y dot
58 1943 Long Reverse Denticles (LRD) - "I" & .PENNY. (B47A)
59 1944 Plain
60 1944 Y dot
61 1945 Y dot
62 1946 Plain
63 1947 Plain
64 1947 Y dot
65 1948 Plain
66 1948 Y dot
67 1949 Plain
68 1950 Plain
69 1950 Y dot
70 1951 Plain
71 1951 PL
72 1951 Y dot
73 1952 Plain
74 1952 A dot - type G (London) rev. (common)
75 1952 A dot - type D (Melb.) rev. (scarce)
76 1953 Plain
77 1953 A dot
78 1953 Long 5, different 3 (L5D3)
79 1955 Plain
80 1955 Y dot - Type 8 (Melb.) obverse (common)
81 1955 Y dot - Type 9 (Perth) obverse (scarce)
82 1956 Plain
83 1956 Y dot
84 1957 Y dot
85 1958 Plain
86 1958 Y dot
87 1959 Plain
88 1959 Y dot
89 1960 Y dot
90 1961 Y dot
91 1962 Y dot
92 1963 Y dot
93 1964 Plain
94 1964 Y dot
GAWD
might have to copy and make a document
well i have started by long service leave vis a vie ..... retiring out
so i heaps of time ..... to play!! yippie! and cook - i have cooked soo much stuff this week ... i need 8 children like my mother had
just checking - this is the penny list ?
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='91741' dateline='1467331470'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91727' dateline='1467325294'Oh so you found it Rob :)
From time to tome I check the number of coins required to complete a penny set (the subject of this thread). The other day I noticed it had gone from 95 to 94. The 1925 "Broken N" was removed from the list. Too bad if you went out and bought one in the mean time.
In the long run its probably for the best since its basically a damaged die rather than a different die pair.
Worse yet it was 2 different dies and the majority of the coins they slabbed were not of the correct Renniks number. As for the 1922 wide dates I think it should be included but they should all be lumped together. It would be very hard for them to identify each die unless they were perfect Unc coins.
Might see some DDOs in the set composition also ?
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='91806' dateline='1467433182'Might see some DDOs in the set composition also ?
Oh crikey no. If they go down that path then how about the halfpennies with denticle patterns, spurs, fins, bearded queens, running nose king, shattered dies etc.
Things like thin leg 1925s are OK for them to identify on the slab but they shouldn't have a separate slot on the set registry.
Yes they should have a basic list and then a separate side list for the people that want to add all the errors etc other wise it's just going too far and where does it all end :scratch_one-s_head:
what is a DDO
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='91839' dateline='1467454410'what is a DDO
Doubled Die Obverse.
oh seriously?
is that doubled legends?
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91829' dateline='1467446611'Yes they should have a basic list and then a separate side list
:i_agree: The set is called:
Australian Pennies Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes (1911-1964)
http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/composite.aspx?c=2278
There are currently 10 Australian Commonwealth penny sets. The varieties should be in a separate set.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi'Worse yet it was 2 different dies
Is that two different 1925 penny Brokeback N dies?
Gee ya gonna have to do something about Eric as he's only one step above you Rob but your doing well mate :good:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91863' dateline='1467506825'Gee ya gonna have to do something about Eric as he's only one step above you Rob but your doing well mate :good:
Dude, all I have to do is buy one if his coins and his set goes down by one while my set goes up by one. :ok: I might try and catch up with him at Petersham in 4 Sundays time. :good:
EDIT: Oh and btw, see how echidna has got his primary set and another separate varieties set.
Yes that's the way to do it :)
Yes and the way echi's doing it is how pcgs should.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='91853' dateline='1467495248'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='91829' dateline='1467446611'Yes they should have a basic list and then a separate side list
:i_agree: The set is called:
Australian Pennies Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes (1911-1964)
http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/composite.aspx?c=2278
There are currently 10 Australian Commonwealth penny sets. The varieties should be in a separate set.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi'Worse yet it was 2 different dies
Is that two different 1925 penny Brokeback N dies?
Yes, there is one variety with a thin leg and another variety with a spur. I'm not an expert on that year so conceivably it is either 2 different dies or the same die after alteration by a die clash. I have a couple of the spurs but don't have the thin leg to do a proper comparison.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='91907' dateline='1467550417'QuoteIs that two different 1925 penny Brokeback N dies?
Yes, there is one variety with a thin leg and another variety with a spur. I'm not an expert on that year so conceivably it is either 2 different dies or the same die after alteration by a die clash. I have a couple of the spurs but don't have the thin leg to do a proper comparison.
The 1925 penny deserves its own thread. It looks to me that the "thin leg" occurs in the same place as the "broken N" as if the die has gradually filled over time.
Have been looking at the number of listed major penny varieties PCGS has included in their registry sets, particularly the host of new additions over the past year or so. Apparently PCGS use Renniks as their reference, so good on them for publishing a catalogue that is inclusive of all of Australia's scarcest and most important coins.
The only issue I have with the Renniks variety catalogue is that they have buried these important coins within endless listings of die cracks and cuds etc. Surely they are able to format this great resource in a way that sets our major varieties apart from the myriad of die damage varieties, and at the same time include a description of how and why some of these coins came to be. New entrants to the hobby must find the current layout difficult when attempting to sort the wheat from the chaff.
What I'm leading to is to highlight the 1956Y. (P) penny with Melbourne obverse. This coin is not included in any of the PCGS registry lists as a major variety, but does exist in their population report. In my opinion it's fairly certain that most Aussie variety collectors would view this coin as a must have and certainly a major variety. It's existence or the manner in which it came to be is exactly the same as the 1955Y. (P) penny with Perth obverse which is rightly included in the registry sets as a major variety.
At the risk of sending everyone to sleep, set out below is my take (happy to be corrected) on how and why the scarcer varieties of the 1955Y. and 1956Y. penny mintages came to be, and IMO is how Renniks for example, could aid all collectors, particularly new entrants to the hobby, when formatting a stand alone list of major varieties that is inclusive of relevant historical information for all such coins.
In 1955 the intended obverse die for all pennies minted at the Perth Mint for that year was what is known as the #8 obverse die supplied by the Melbourne Mint. At some later point in time, it was decided the obverse die for the following year would be manufactured in Perth instead of being supplied from Melbourne, this die would become known as the #9 obverse. Towards the end of the mintage run for 1955Y. (P) pennies, this new die somehow made its way onto the presses and was responsible for a small number of 1955Y. (P) pennies displaying the #9 obverse.
Following on from this, early in the 1956Y. (P) penny production run with all coins now intended to display the new #9 obverse, somehow again, the older #8 Melbourne supplied obverse die from the previous year found its way onto the presses for a short time resulting in a small mintage of Perth pennies displaying the #8 Melbourne obverse.
For an eventual list of maybe 40 ish coins, I don't see this as an unrealistic expectation or difficult task, there are some years that would require extended information to unveil certain mysteries, other years would require much less.
My favourite topic, no risk of me nodding off since I just woke up, fresh as a daisy. I get the feeling we have covered this before in different threads with contributions from nealeffendi and autocoupler etc. however it won't hurt to collate what we have so far and put it all down in one place. Personally I would not wait for Renniks to come on board, if there are indeed only 40 - 50 examples then why not simply list them here?
PCGS already have about 20 included in the registry set so the job is half done. I have that list on my PC and I will add later when I boot it up.
Meanwhile in the case of the 1955 and 1956 Perth obverses, I wonder if it was a mixup. My theory is that they would never let a useful die go to waste, so a planned change of dies would not take place until the old dies were all used up which could result in some unintended combinations.
Link to the PCGS penny set composition:
http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/setcomposition.aspx?c=2278
My list of the varieties included in the penny set:
1 _1920o//o Double Dot
2 _1920L//o Dot Below - London Obverse
3 _1920C/o/ Dot Above Bottom Scroll - Calcutta Obverse
4 _1920o// Dot Above Top Scroll
5 _1921L London Obverse
6 _1922C Calcutta Obverse [P22M.2B]
7 _1924C Calcutta Obverse
8 _1925N Broken N
9 _1927C Calcutta Obverse
10 _1929C Calcutta Obverse [P29M.2A]
11 _1931LD1 Dropped 1 - London Obverse
12 _1931CD1 Dropped 1 - Calcutta Obverse
13 _1931C Calcutta Obverse
14 _1933/2 Over-date
15 _1952AM Type D "Melbourne" Reverse (Perth A dot) [P52P.5D]
16 _1953L5D3 Long 5, Different 3
17 _1955Y Perth Obverse
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='99457' dateline='1475595791'Meanwhile in the case of the 1955 and 1956 Perth obverses, I wonder if it was a mixup. My theory is that they would never let a useful die go to waste, so a planned change of dies would not take place until the old dies were all used up which could result in some unintended combinations.
:agreed: yes indeed, it could be as simple and logical as that.
Thinking further about major varieties and what may constitute a major variety, it becomes apparent that any list may vary depending on the priority of the individual. Anyhow, whichever that is, I reckon it should be accompanied by suitable identifying information. Definitely something to work on.
This thread is an absolute credit to all the posters. I'm finding it really useful at the moment as I'm trying to get some of my pennies sorted to "hopefully" pay some bills. Top stuff & thanks heaps! :good:
Thanks uni. For my part at least, I'm just referring to info that has been sourced and supplied by others in the hobby. To be perfectly honest, the info is already out there, but not all in the one place as an all encompassing reference as it so easily could be in my opinion.
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='99462' dateline='1475630716'Thinking further about major varieties and what may constitute a major variety, it becomes apparent that any list may vary depending on the priority of the individual. Anyhow, whichever that is, I reckon it should be accompanied by suitable identifying information. Definitely something to work on.
Could you expand a little on what you mean by "suitable identifying information". For instance would a spreadsheet format with (possibly) additional columns to my list be the go or would the format be more like an essay for each type of coin (maybe both).
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='99473' dateline='1475651890'For instance would a spreadsheet format with (possibly) additional columns to my list be the go or would the format be more like an essay for each type of coin (maybe both).
Maybe a bit of both as you suggested. For some entries I think coded columns would suffice, but for others, provision for extended description would be required. IMO the trick would be in finding a way of doing this without the document having large void areas, and the best way may be the simplest, just by entering extra detail across the page directly below the line and before the next entry.
it has taken a long time but the penny set looks about right now
Quote from: 'frenc11' pid='99483' dateline='1475663482'it has taken a long time but the penny set looks about right now
Yes, I think the increased numbers of important Aussie coins finding their way onto the PCGS registry over the past year is a shot in the arm for this form of collecting. Unfortunately the one glaring omission as I see it is the 1956Y. (P) Penny with Melbourne obverse. Can't be too critical though, hopefully time will tell.
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='99456' dateline='1475588431'The only issue I have with the Renniks variety catalogue is that they have buried these important coins within endless listings of die cracks and cuds etc.
Agreed.
Then go to Lever he only has the main die varieties listed. Maybe the odd dot like the 1937 crown.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='99490' dateline='1475668712'Then go to Lever he only has the main die varieties listed. Maybe the odd dot like the 1937 crown.
I have a copy of Fred's book in front of me. He has five pages devoted to pennies with about 30 - 40 coins on each page.
EDIT: In the accompanying CD there is a PDF called "04 First listing of Penny varieties 2005" which lists 161 coins.
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='99484' dateline='1475664613'Quote from: 'frenc11' pid='99483' dateline='1475663482'it has taken a long time but the penny set looks about right now
Yes, I think the increased numbers of important Aussie coins finding their way onto the PCGS registry over the past year is a shot in the arm for this form of collecting. Unfortunately the one glaring omission as I see it is the 1956Y. (P) Penny with Melbourne obverse. Can't be too critical though, hopefully time will tell.
What about the 1930 English? It is in the population report but not in the registry. Same with the '53 large denticle florin, the 1926 serif sixpence and the 1916 halfpenny mule. Also nothing for the 1922 wide date pennies or the '46 big 6 florin and what about the date variety pennies of 1955-57?
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='99495' dateline='1475700083'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='99490' dateline='1475668712'Then go to Lever he only has the main die varieties listed. Maybe the odd dot like the 1937 crown.
I have a copy of Fred's book in front of me. He has five pages devoted to pennies with about 30 - 40 coins on each page.
EDIT: In the accompanying CD there is a PDF called "04 First listing of Penny varieties 2005" which lists 161 coins.
I reckon Fred Levers contribution is as close as it gets, so far as having a broad coverage of information in the one place, however IMO there is a need for supplementary information and explanations for some entries.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='99501' dateline='1475706335'What about the 1930 English? It is in the population report but not in the registry. Same with the '53 large denticle florin, the 1926 serif sixpence and the 1916 halfpenny mule. Also nothing for the 1922 wide date pennies or the '46 big 6 florin and what about the date variety pennies of 1955-57?
I thought originally 1930 English was listed, but then removed. Hopefully eventually all will be included, also, whilst PCGS reference Renniks, I suspect they are also bouncing off certain individuals in Australia.
I've been doing some work on parsing Fred's penny list. Below is a small number of coins from the list which shows the type of data that has been collated.
(http://i.imgur.com/SSzx1HS.jpg)
Interesting to think what the Penny set would look like if DDOs and DDRs were included...
There are a number of these in the penny series.
These seem to be popular with US collectors and are considered major varieties by PCGS.
Not popular with Aussie collectors now but perhaps worth looking out for.
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='99550' dateline='1475745232'I've been doing some work on parsing Fred's penny list. Below is a small number of coins from the list which shows the type of data that has been collated.
(http://i.imgur.com/SSzx1HS.jpg)
Trying to be constructive, but when looking at the above table, the first thing that jumps out is a requirement for further description for some of the entries, and serves to reinforce the difficulty that new entrants in the hobby must face.
The first entry refers to a digit that leans left, there is a dot somewhere we must consider, and there is no serif (but where or on what). A list like this obviously presumes the reader has extended knowledge that will allow them to comprehend and digest the information. A couple of the other entries suffer from a similar lack of detail; and certainly not trying to demean Freds work, but the second entry is a little misinformative in that the Perth penny which displays the right tilted 2 does display a pointed serif on the foot of the 2, albeit slightly different to that on the level 2 variety.
Just trying to point out that various entries will require extended descriptions if the common goal is to produce a table that is easily discernable for collectors at all levels. A lot of work I reckon.
I have never seen a double nose 1960 penny!
and a large dot is not what i'd consider as a variety I think it is an error
Not all collectors are interested in 1d varieties and there isn't a set for just the circulation strikes without varieties, So maybe if a standard set was available then more collectors would get involved.
I would worry about that before making the circ set with varieties any bigger :ok:
I think the main goal here is an attempt at putting together a table of circulation pennies which includes accepted major varieties that is easily discernable to all collectors. As often happens, it can become difficult when the intention is only to include a selected group, because opinions and preferences vary.
As far as the PCGS registry goes, as said earlier, the 1956Y. (P) penny with Melbourne obverse is a glaring omission IMO. Another logical thing for PCGS to do, is to create a set for varieties only.
Maybe some more "lobbying" PCGS is required to include the other varieties.
The only success with this that I have had is for the 2000 incused 50c any other attempt at my lobbying PCGS has been a dismal failure :(
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='99553' dateline='1475752423'Not popular with Aussie collectors now but perhaps worth looking out for.
Indeed, I had to look them up, DDO = Doubled Die Obverse and DDR = Doubled Die Reverse. There seems to be more interest in misplaced date numerals or errant dots.
EDIT: The topic of this thread concerns a 3D but the principle is the same;
https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=2242
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='99553' dateline='1475752423'Interesting to think what the Penny set would look like if DDOs and DDRs were included...
There are a number of these in the penny series.
These seem to be popular with US collectors and are considered major varieties by PCGS.
Not popular with Aussie collectors now but perhaps worth looking out for.
DDOs and DDRs should not be included in the main set. There are far too many and outside the most spectacular most can only be observed with a loupe. Still you can add them to your showcases (I have a MS64RB double nose queen in mine).
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='99556' dateline='1475753944Just trying to point out that various entries will require extended descriptions if the common goal is to produce a table that is easily discernable for collectors at all levels. A lot of work I reckon.
I agree, a spreadsheet is not going to be enough but it's a start. It's interesting that six columns are required to incorporate the good work of Holland, Dean, Foster, Mos, Clarke and Renniks. To that group I would add Jon Saxton who most collectors like me refer to at first thanks to his triton.vg website.
Some of those names I am not familiar with but it's a worthy effort to include them since they have all done good work on the subject. It must be difficult for anyone starting out to come to grips with all the different references schemes.
I should point out that Fred's book includes pictures and additional information. All I did was latch onto his table as a starting point to itemise the coins that are in play for this discussion.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='99558' dateline='1475754637'I have never seen a double nose 1960 penny!
and a large dot is not what i'd consider as a variety I think it is an error
Somewhere along the way I seem to remember seeing a double nose other than the 62. Will try and dig it out.
yes please!!!
It's not the flashest one you ever saw, but I put it in Fridays photos.
The 1956Y w/ Melbourne obverse has made it into the penny set:
(http://i.imgur.com/Vr86FIB.png)
The number of coins required to complete the set is now back up to 95. It was 94 for a little while after one of the 1925 varieties was removed.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/australian-commonwealth/sterling-coinage/australian-pennies-complete-set-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1911-1964/composition/2278
Quote from: 'r9453' pid='107292' dateline='1490895699'The 1956Y w/ Melbourne obverse has made it into the penny set:
(http://i.imgur.com/Vr86FIB.png)
The number of coins required to complete the set is now back up to 95. It was 94 for a little while after one of the 1925 varieties was removed.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/australian-commonwealth/sterling-coinage/australian-pennies-complete-set-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1911-1964/composition/2278
Strange, with the 1955Y Perth at a 3.00, surely the 56Y would be a 2.00.
It's good though, my one automatically moved into the right slot.
Strange, with the 1955Y Perth at a 3.00, surely the 56Y would be a 2.00.
It's good though, my one automatically moved into the right slot.
[/quote]
How is that? They didn't move the '52 date variety pennies that had already been slabbed from the standard position when that variety was recognised and they didn't move the '53 large denticle florins in '53 slabs to the correct category when that variety was recognised.
Has it got something to do with the coin numbers? If you have a coin that was slabbed before a particular variety was recognised you would need to send it back and get the new/correct "PCGS No". I assume this would also apply if the coin was not correctly attributed when they slabbed it in the first place.
http://www.pcgs.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=598572
Quote from: 'Fr45h3R' pid='107318' dateline='1490965853'Strange, with the 1955Y Perth at a 3.00, surely the 56Y would be a 2.00.
It's good though, my one automatically moved into the right slot.
One point deducted for incorrect spelling of
Melborne :biggrin:
Its not like its a Anglo/Aussie thing that the yanks just don't get it. There is a city in Florida with a population of 77k called Melbourne.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Melbourne,+FL,+USA/@28.1174627,-80.7253178,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x88de0e2c4771994d:0x8bcdb254a90cd2a8!8m2!3d28.0836269!4d-80.6081089
Lots has happened over the past year or so, with nearly all major varieties now included in the penny set registry, except for the 1930 London obverse. Only two examples known of this type, so unrealistic to include it IMO.
PCGS last week added the 1957Y. wide date penny with reverse G as a requirement for the registry sets, and to my knowledge this was the last remaining major variety among the pennies to be outstanding.
Have just noticed that PCGS have now added basic sets to the Penny and Florin Set Registries, a good move IMO. The weird thing is, for the penny sets they included the mint mark coins ie H - Y. - K.G - A. - I and PL for all the relative years, but left out the various dot combinations for 1919 and 1920. Surely these dots are mint marks as well, or am I missing something?
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='110888' dateline='1503105973'Have just noticed that PCGS have now added basic sets to the Penny and Florin Set Registries, a good move IMO. The weird thing is, for the penny sets they included the mint mark coins ie H - Y. - K.G - A. - I and PL for all the relative years, but left out the various dot combinations for 1919 and 1920. Surely these dots are mint marks as well, or am I missing something?
Thats good news about the two penny sets.