For some time I've been on the prowl for a higher grade 1924 Indian penny. In my search of past auction results the only reference I could find was one in EF from Nobles auctions 73 and 75 which was passed in (same coin on both occasions). Incredibly it has appeared on ebay with a starting price of $1500, a bit high for me though.
Does anyone have an opinion on the scarcity of this coin in high grade and the value.
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='40396' dateline='1390647177'For some time I've been on the prowl for a higher grade 1924 Indian penny. In my search of past auction results the only reference I could find was one in EF from Nobles auctions 73 and 75 which was passed in (same coin on both occasions). Incredibly it has appeared on ebay with a starting price of $1500, a bit high for me though.
Does anyone have an opinion on the scarcity of this coin in high grade and the value.
The price is too high.
the 1924 Indian is about 1 in 12 of that date and it isn't a scarce date. A 1924 PCGS AU55 (English) cost me about $40 six months ago, so even allowing for the bargain I got and for the 1/12 scarcity of the Indian I think that the variety might be worth less than a grand if it made AU50 (the seller says PCGS undergraded the coin and AU50 is the next grade). In VG I have picked up scores for under $6 (many of those at under a dollar), in VF I have a few and I picked those up for about $20.
I also have a nice 8 pearler that is as good as that $1,500 coin. Cost me $140, which is a good price, I personally would want at least AU58 before I'd pay $1,500 for the Indian.
IIRC an Unc Indian was on offer last year for about $2,500 and would have been MS62 or 63.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='40400' dateline='1390650873'Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='40396' dateline='1390647177'For some time I've been on the prowl for a higher grade 1924 Indian penny. In my search of past auction results the only reference I could find was one in EF from Nobles auctions 73 and 75 which was passed in (same coin on both occasions). Incredibly it has appeared on ebay with a starting price of $1500, a bit high for me though.
Does anyone have an opinion on the scarcity of this coin in high grade and the value.
The price is too high.
the 1924 Indian is about 1 in 12 of that date and it isn't a scarce date. A 1924 PCGS AU55 (English) cost me about $40 six months ago, so even allowing for the bargain I got and for the 1/12 scarcity of the Indian I think that the variety might be worth less than a grand if it made AU50 (the seller says PCGS undergraded the coin and AU50 is the next grade). In VG I have picked up scores for under $6 (many of those at under a dollar), in VF I have a few and I picked those up for about $20.
I also have a nice 8 pearler that is as good as that $1,500 coin. Cost me $140, which is a good price, I personally would want at least AU58 before I'd pay $1,500 for the Indian.
IIRC an Unc Indian was on offer last year for about $2,500 and would have been MS62 or 63.
One thing to consider with the circulated coins is that the rims on the Sydney Mint pennies from that period (dot above 1920 and 1924 Indian) were very low and gave little protection to the coin so that the high ppoints disappeared quickly with wear. I have seen very few better than VF.
I picked up a choice unc one (because no-one else noticed the obverse) at Downies ACA in mid 1999.
I used to find them about 1 in 20; i.e. a bit less often than you.
Hi emu.
The Stuart Anderson hoard (www.stuartandersen.com.au/hoard/copper.html) had 108 Indians and 1273 English which is less than 1 in 12. If you got 1 in 20 then that could be regional variation in distribution or you are going through lots that have been at least partly cherrypicked.
I have noticed that some auction lots don't specify varieties (1920 English, '24 Indians, 1915 wide etc) so the fact that an Auctioneer might think that he hasn't sold any higher grades might not be the full truth.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='40403' dateline='1390653190'Hi emu.
The Stuart Anderson hoard (www.stuartandersen.com.au/hoard/copper.html) had 108 Indians and 1273 English which is less than 1 in 12. If you got 1 in 20 then that could be regional variation in distribution or you are going through lots that have been at least partly cherrypicked.
I have noticed that some auction lots don't specify varieties (1920 English, '24 Indians, 1915 wide etc) so the fact that an Auctioneer might think that he hasn't sold any higher grades might not be the full truth.
mea culpa. I was the one who looked through that hoard and I'd forgotten the stats I put together.
I recalled that 1 in 20 from looking through bulk lots in Melbourne 10 to 15 years ago (and they could have been cherry picked).
The original source of Stuart's hoard was from all around the country so the 1 in 12 is more likely to represent the proportion of Indian obverses overall.
(http://www.thesandpit.net/pennies/1924Indian_o.JPG)
(http://www.thesandpit.net/pennies/1924Indian_r.JPG)
Thanks for your extremely valuable insight nealeffendi and emu666, much appreciated. Very nice coin emu666
That's one hell of a coin emu....
I knew that you sorted the hoard emu (hence the prompt).
Noice Indian you have. It is a semi early die stage as that obverse later developed a die crack through VDG BRITT and the reverse already has the die crack ALTH (most of that particular reverse die has that die crack). The reverse had previously been paired with another obverse (that had a small dot on the lower outside edge of S in SV).
There are 6 different obverse dies that I know of and they seemed to share a couple of reverse dies.
The ledger for Sydney mint has 640,800 pennies sent to store between 8/9/1926 and 14/10/1926. A good a time as any to use up old dies.
Got me 1924 indain die back from the plastic factory today came in at AU 58 which is what I thought it would be. Will be listing it in a week or so on ebay so keep an eye out